kick me i'm down...help..

[lisamomof4]

DD2 had a very promising interview today with edwards hospital. she's been trying to get out of the office where she is at right for a bit due to a toxic situation (she was hurt at work and dr didn't have workmans comp ins.). they gave her a starting salary and were confirming info...she was so excited and happy....and then they asked for 5 clinical references. this is a major problem for several reasons...there aren't 5 people who work there, the staff has remained the same for years, they all fear for their jobs...if they call for reference the dr. will be informed and she will be out of job....to curry favor with the dr there is a good chance they will give a bad revue. this is the only office she has worked at since completing her training so there isn't an other employer she can go to as they also request from current employment. she's devastated and feels trapped. i have suggested she call HR tomorrow and explain and ask if there are any other options. does anyone have other ideas that might work? what have i missed for a solution? 

[lynnerself]

How long has she been out of training? Can she use anyone from her training program as a reference?

[Shooby]

5 clinical references would not only have to be whom she worked with would it? I don't know the back story but aren't there other references?

[kittensaver]

Well first, having worked in HR I can tell you that it is NOT unusual for candidates to ask that a reference from the current employer NOT be sought until after a job offer has been issued. Smart HR people know that current bosses can get peeved and retaliate against employees who are "looking."

So give the references, but ask specifically that they not be contacted until AFTER a job offer has been made. As an important aside, the politics of this is: if the job offer is rescinded based on a bad reference, she can go after (or at least contemplate her next steps) with the person who blocked her job offer. That's why so many places will only verify employment, not give a reference: they don't want to be sued for what they say. Hopefully this will work in your daughter's favor.

Can she list her clinical teachers/professors as references?

[lisamomof4]

that was my thought. sadly she has watched this Dr do exactly that...last girl who tried to get out, they called the office and as soon as the last patient left he went off like a rocket and fired her on the spot....it was ugly and has put the fear of god in the remaining staff. she can give people she went to school with (training) and several girls who have left....it's the current request that has her defeated. i'm hoping when she calls HR in the morning she will get a better answer...she can't be the only person with a vindictive employer they have come across.

[JustLurkin]

I second the discuss with HR, they may have other options. In my current job, they needed to interview my supervisor. I said that would be fine, as long as an HR representative was present (as I knew my supervisor had been asking people not to hire me, which is not the same as a bad reference). New job declined this arrangement. I really thought I wasn't going to get the job. A few weeks later they called to say a representative was in the town of my corporate office, would it be ok for them to go in and request a copy of my personnel record. This was fine with me, I knew nothing detrimental was in writing and I didn't hem or haw about the request.

[Deleted]

If there is a HR department, how do they not have workers comp insurance for employees? That is mandated by the state Labor & Industries office.

She should call the new place, nicely explain what happened to the last employee that sought a referrence & how the DR reacted, and do they have any suggestions to satisfy their need to know she is a good employee. She can say she would be happy to give her educational trainers as references, but will be fired on the spot if current Doc becomes aware she is trying to exit.

The only other thought I have is that if the new employer does not have a way around the references; she could offer to work contract/temp for the first 3 months so they can 'try her out' and she can show them she's a great worker & her skills are strong. If they go for that, then the offer letter needs to reflect that they will 'temp' her in lieu of references with the intention to make her a regular hire in 90 days.

This is a tough situation, but I don't think she is trapped. She might have to get a little creative for a short while, but it will be worth it in the long run to get out of a business that is under a volatile dictator.

Best of Luck for your DD & family!

[milee]

May 6, 2015 20:19:48 GMT -5 @rockit said:

If there is a HR department, how do they not have workers comp insurance for employees? That is mandated by the state Labor & Industries office.

Not in all states.  Some states have exceptions for small or self-insured employers.

[JustLurkin]

I understood HR to refer to the new job at a hospital. The old/current job is a doctor and staff, no HR, and has less than 5 people.

[Deleted]

May 6, 2015 20:22:55 GMT -5 milee said:

May 6, 2015 20:19:48 GMT -5 @rockit said:

If there is a HR department, how do they not have workers comp insurance for employees? That is mandated by the state Labor & Industries office.

Not in all states.  Some states have exceptions for small or self-insured employers.

If they were self insured it wouldn't matter... I also don't understand how one just doesn't get workers comp ? I didn't realize it was a choice anywhere...

[milee]

In Florida, the requirements vary by type of business. Construction industry requires WC insurance no matter how many employees you have. Non-construction requires WC insurance if you have 4 or more employees. Seemed like there may have been different requirements for farmers, but don't remember what those were.

And self-insured might matter because if the Dr. was self-insured, his claims administrator (which could even be him under certain set ups) could have broad discretion over what claims are processed.  Not at all saying this is the case here, but remember some of the really egregious WC claims from the thread a few weeks ago?  It's not surprising that a self-insured WC employer would balk at paying some of those types of claims, leaving it up to the employee to sue or fight the denial through other means.

ETA - rereading the OP, it might not even be an issue of getting claims paid, it might be more of an issue that the Doc is (unfairly) angry at her because when she was injured, her claims being submitted to WC exposed the fact that the Doc has not purchased the required insurance so he's angry that in his mind her actions exposed his mistake/bad choice.

[Deleted]

May 6, 2015 20:22:55 GMT -5 milee said:

May 6, 2015 20:19:48 GMT -5 @rockit said:

If there is a HR department, how do they not have workers comp insurance for employees? That is mandated by the state Labor & Industries office.

Not in all states.  Some states have exceptions for small or self-insured employers.

Wow. I had no idea! In the 3 states I lived in as an adult it was mandatory if you had a single employee. 

[lisamomof4]

by law Dr is expected to have both workmans comp and malpractice.....but he is on the rather cheep side and no one knew he didn't have it till she got hurt....he got it later during the day she was injured...it's been a huge mess. she was knocked unconscious for an unknown amount of time and he objected to her seeking outside medical help. i took her to ER and he tried to call and get info/instruct the staff there.  by not having the insurance when staff was injured he faces several penalties and fines depending on the outcome of review board if notified of his shortcoming on insurance

[Works4me]

I definitely recommend her instructors from the clinical,programs as well as any supervisors from where they did their clinical hours.

She also needs to be careful of providing the names of current co-workers as references. It is not uncommon for them to throw each other under the bus when it comes to personal survival in toxic situations. 

This is a common occurrence when looking to change jobs and Edwards HR should have a work-around for it as Doctors can be notoriously difficult in situations like this.

Unfortunately, many doctors forget that MD does NOT stand for "Mefical Diety."

Finally, your daughter should see if she can get a letter of reference from the doctor. If not, at least save any reviews and/or salary increase information. It us kind of easy to overcome a poor reference if you receive raises and/or promotions on a regular basis.

[Shooby]

I am not sure what her degree is in. But, medical professionals are in high demand. She will land on her feet.

[zibazinski]

You've been given a lot of good advice. I, also, was thrown under the bus by my Principal when I tried to get away from my toxic manager. She never bad mouthed me but always told the person she really needed me and surely someone else could do the job I applied for. I wondered why I never got the jobs I applied for and then the last year I taught, I found out why.    So I was never going to get another job in that school system no matter how qualified I was. I retired in August, my toxic manager was transferred away involuntarily in November and my Principal was told to retire in December. Too late for me but I'm sure those left are doing the happy dance!

[lisamomof4]

she is a medical assistant in an all ages peds practice....small office single dr... When she hired on right out of school, she's been there about 4yrs. Raises were promised though out the time but never happened...always some reason he put them off. She loves the kids and the work and figured it would build up her experience...it was only after she was hurt did he turn nasty. The other staff throwing her under the bus is exactly what she is afraid of. 

[Opti]

May 7, 2015 8:06:52 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

You've been given a lot of good advice. I, also, was thrown under the bus by my Principal when I tried to get away from my toxic manager. She never bad mouthed me but always told the person she really needed me and surely someone else could do the job I applied for. I wondered why I never got the jobs I applied for and then the last year I taught, I found out why.    So I was never going to get another job in that school system no matter how qualified I was. I retired in August, my toxic manager was transferred away involuntarily in November and my Principal was told to retire in December. Too late for me but I'm sure those left are doing the happy dance!

I'm sorry Zib. I've known of managers who screw up competent employees promotions or transfers simply because they don't want to replace them. Probably not much comfort, but at least she thought you did a good job.

[zibazinski]

Yes, but it was HER job to make sure everyone did their job and to handle the toxic dept head. That's why she got paid the big bucks.