chen35
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Post by chen35 on May 4, 2015 13:48:04 GMT -5
Your neighbor must have belonged to the offshoot FLDS, (Fundamentalists) - which are in no way affiliated with the true LDS Mormon Church. fldsmormons.com/ Not necessarily. I was a "regular" Mormon and we still went to temple to do the baptisms for the dead, etc. Plenty of families in our stake with 10+ children, too. There's more overlap between the LDS and FLDS than they'd like you to believe. If you're talking about the Warren Jeffs, polygamist sect, I absolutely disagree with this. There is almost no similarity in belief structure. I think what Scottish Lassie was saying (by her bold highlight) was that if she went to their temple, then it wasn't a traditional Mormon temple, because only Mormons go to those temples. They definitely don't shine spotlights on people and mention anything about them having children.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on May 4, 2015 13:51:51 GMT -5
souldoubt, Yeah, my brother has apparently gotten quite creative about his background that it's just so uncomfortable to be around. And it's not just a matter of perspective it's deliberate manipulation of the facts. I find myself want to keep correcting the record so his kids know the truth. I just find it easier to avoid him. He's not going to change. Since my dad won't talk to him and his two oldest kids stopped speaking to him I don't think I'm alone.
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on May 4, 2015 13:54:43 GMT -5
I believe it's 'bombsheaventer'. no, I was saying "bombshell". Ha! Yeah, I'm an idiot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 13:55:27 GMT -5
[quote source="/post/2228926/thread" timestamp="1430763811" author=" Bonny It was crazy weird to me that the two wildest and out of control kids that I knew; him and a girlfriend of mine both converted to Mormons within a few months of each other.[/quote] Sometimes I think people choose a strict, fundamentalist religion with a lot of rules because they need structure. DS has ADD and I really think he needed a more structured religion. Even when he decided to go for counseling, he selected a psychologist recommended by his pastor because he wanted a Christian. Fortunately, the psychologist turned out to be very good- DH and I "interviewed" him by phone at his regular rates and liked him. Fortunately, he really helped DS manage his ADD with a combination of meds, therapy and common-sense things like getting regular sleep, avoiding junk food and getting exercise. A genuine cult would have been horrified at consulting a psychologist or using mainstream medications. I'm glad there are various types of religion because we're all different, Just don't try to convert me to yours!
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 4, 2015 13:57:39 GMT -5
or Escape, by Carolyn Jessop - the first woman to leave the FLDS and win custody of her kids. is it a good read? I know the outline enough. I'm just afraid I'm going to be horrified about her journey and so depressed that FLDS is still around. I think the only reason I was able to finish it was b/c I knew the end result. but it is very eye-opening.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on May 4, 2015 14:00:19 GMT -5
souldoubt, Yeah, my brother has apparently gotten quite creative about his background that it's just so uncomfortable to be around. And it's not just a matter of perspective it's deliberate manipulation of the facts. I find myself want to keep correcting the record so his kids know the truth. I just find it easier to avoid him. He's not going to change. Since my dad won't talk to him and his two oldest kids stopped speaking to him I don't think I'm alone. Bonny sorry to hear it. Obviously it's not your fault but I'm sure that doesn't make it any easier. It's still interesting to me how some of the people I grew up with who were either the craziest or most repressed when we were young went through the biggest changes. I think most people have similar experiences growing up and the majority settle somewhere in the middle as adults but the outliers are still really interesting to me.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on May 4, 2015 14:03:27 GMT -5
[quote source="/post/2228926/thread" timestamp="1430763811" author=" Bonny It was crazy weird to me that the two wildest and out of control kids that I knew; him and a girlfriend of mine both converted to Mormons within a few months of each other.
Sometimes I think people choose a strict, fundamentalist religion with a lot of rules because they need structure. DS has ADD and I really think he needed a more structured religion. Even when he decided to go for counseling, he selected a psychologist recommended by his pastor because he wanted a Christian. Fortunately, the psychologist turned out to be very good- DH and I "interviewed" him by phone at his regular rates and liked him. Fortunately, he really helped DS manage his ADD with a combination of meds, therapy and common-sense things like getting regular sleep, avoiding junk food and getting exercise. A genuine cult would have been horrified at consulting a psychologist or using mainstream medications.
I'm glad there are various types of religion because we're all different, Just don't try to convert me to yours!
[/quote][/p]
I've had the same thoughts about structure. My brother is ADHD. I think my mother had ADD.
My girlfriend was diagnosed with bi-polar. Although we're still in touch I haven't seen her in about 20 years so I'm really not sure how well she's doing.
Makes you wonder about my sense of "normal".
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on May 4, 2015 14:11:12 GMT -5
souldoubt, Yeah, my brother has apparently gotten quite creative about his background that it's just so uncomfortable to be around. And it's not just a matter of perspective it's deliberate manipulation of the facts. I find myself want to keep correcting the record so his kids know the truth. I just find it easier to avoid him. He's not going to change. Since my dad won't talk to him and his two oldest kids stopped speaking to him I don't think I'm alone. Bonny sorry to hear it. Obviously it's not your fault but I'm sure that doesn't make it any easier. It's still interesting to me how some of the people I grew up with who were either the craziest or most repressed when we were young went through the biggest changes. I think most people have similar experiences growing up and the majority settle somewhere in the middle as adults but the outliers are still really interesting to me. I've felt very guilty about it and the fact that I haven't been a very good aunt to his kids. I do have a connection with his oldest and his youngest (a daughter) and I usually try to see her when I'm in town.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 4, 2015 14:11:53 GMT -5
No kidding.
If anyone is interested in a good book about FLDS read Jon Krakaur's Under the Banner of Heaven. He does give a short history of LDS and it's wacky founder.
or Escape, by Carolyn Jessop - the first woman to leave the FLDS and win custody of her kids. That is an awesome read.
I have also read books from two wives of Verlan LeBaron. Unlike Carolyn Jessop's husband, Verlan LeBaron is portrayed as a nice man who genuinely thinks he is serving God and does the best that he can for his many wives and children. Their accounts are more about the poverty and loneliness of plural marriage.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 14:33:38 GMT -5
Should I be concerned that my daughter wants to go to Burning Man, with her kids?
Is it really "dedicated to community, art, self-expression, and self-reliance" or is that a smoke screen & its modern day hippie trips?
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lexxy703
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Post by lexxy703 on May 4, 2015 14:35:19 GMT -5
My most recent ex converted to Mormon in his 20s. He left after about 10 years because of what he considered their hypocritical actions. He railed against them frequently. His ex-wife stayed & raised the kids as Mormon but they didn't really believe. The church continued to pursue him & try to get him to return to the faith. It was not uncommon for me to come home from work & see the bicycle boys waiting.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 4, 2015 14:36:40 GMT -5
or Escape, by Carolyn Jessop - the first woman to leave the FLDS and win custody of her kids. That is an awesome read.
I have also read books from two wives of Verlan LeBaron. Unlike Carolyn Jessop's husband, Verlan LeBaron is portrayed as a nice man who genuinely thinks he is serving God and does the best that he can for his many wives and children. Their accounts are more about the poverty and loneliness of plural marriage.
I can see the appeal, for perhaps a socially isolated, lonely woman. Camaraderie, sisterhood and shared duties. If it was up to me, the first order of business would be getting rid of the husband. "Yeah, we're all divorcing you. Get out."
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on May 4, 2015 15:31:18 GMT -5
Should I be concerned that my daughter wants to go to Burning Man, with her kids? Is it really " dedicated to community, art, self-expression, and self-reliance" or is that a smoke screen & its modern day hippie trips?Like anything in life it's what you make of it. If someone wants to show up there to party and get high then they can do that but if someone wants to show up there to experience the art, meet people and have a communal experience then they will. There's a documentary that at one time (may still be) was on Netflix about burning man and the people who put it on. As of the documentary the people running it were mostly the original founders but over the years some of the other founders left because they felt it grew into something different and the documentary talks about some of the issues they've had. One of the guys who built art pieces and had attended for years was a little more outspoken and made it known he didn't care for the "hippies" who showed up with nothing expecting to mooch off others and party. I believe tickets for the one in the documentary sold out in a matter of minutes and some of the people buying tickets treat it like a giant rave which some of the founders didn't care for while others downplayed it. They were trying to find ways to cut down on that aspect of it but when you sell tickets to the general public you can't guarantee who will attend.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on May 4, 2015 15:35:17 GMT -5
Not necessarily. I was a "regular" Mormon and we still went to temple to do the baptisms for the dead, etc. Plenty of families in our stake with 10+ children, too. There's more overlap between the LDS and FLDS than they'd like you to believe. No kidding.
If anyone is interested in a good book about FLDS read Jon Krakaur's Under the Banner of Heaven. He does give a short history of LDS and it's wacky founder.
For a simple example of how whacky Mormon beliefs are, imagine having two, three, four, or more wives. And the significant possibility that sooner or later they will all be mad at you at the same time. (OK, I'm just poking fun here. No need to get offended on behalf of the followers of any particular religious beliefs.) Or consider a reciprocal religion, where a woman has multiple husbands. All five of the "Bands", sitting around drinking beer, high fiving, and watching football all day every Saturday and Sunday for five or six months of the year. Could be a little annoying. Having one spouse to annoy you/be annoyed with you is enough.
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midwestlily
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Post by midwestlily on May 4, 2015 15:39:08 GMT -5
Back in the 70s, the most beautiful girl in my high school class joined the Hare Krishnas. I heard that her son was abused in the schools where the children were raised. Don't know what ended up happening to her.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 4, 2015 15:44:06 GMT -5
deminmaine would properly be know as a Deadhead --- plenty of them around here. I believe I may have joined a cult this weekend. They are into all kinds of weird stuff like numbers, math, pivot tables, logic, and of all things goats
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on May 4, 2015 15:55:01 GMT -5
"Do you know any? Been part of one?"
Well, I try to be part of the "common sense people"...but we are few and we can be boring, just doing normal stuff, with a twist.
Personally, I don't know any (really, I'm not that sheltered, it is just that up here, in upstate NY, people have better things to do...and we are just getting out of winter, and starting to feel glorious summer. People tend to be sensible and down to earth here), but I've heard of John Travolta and Tom Cruse...they are strange. Maybe try twitter or Instagram?
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 4, 2015 16:15:12 GMT -5
No kidding.
If anyone is interested in a good book about FLDS read Jon Krakaur's Under the Banner of Heaven. He does give a short history of LDS and it's wacky founder.
For a simple example of how whacky Mormon beliefs are, imagine having two, three, four, or more wives. And the significant possibility that sooner or later they will all be mad at you at the same time. (OK, I'm just poking fun here. No need to get offended on behalf of the followers of any particular religious beliefs.) Or consider a reciprocal religion, where a woman has multiple husbands. All five of the "Bands", sitting around drinking beer, high fiving, and watching football all day every Saturday and Sunday for five or six months of the year. Could be a little annoying. Having one spouse to annoy you/be annoyed with you is enough. Brother Husbands
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 4, 2015 17:05:48 GMT -5
souldoubt, Yeah, my brother has apparently gotten quite creative about his background that it's just so uncomfortable to be around. And it's not just a matter of perspective it's deliberate manipulation of the facts. I find myself want to keep correcting the record so his kids know the truth. I just find it easier to avoid him. He's not going to change. Since my dad won't talk to him and his two oldest kids stopped speaking to him I don't think I'm alone. My little sister and her DH have gone this route. LS used to be fairly wild, in HS. She barely got C's, partied a lot, never had to do chores at home, bragged to me (her older sister) that she was trying different drugs and sleeping around. Since she was the baby of the family, mom spoiled her with money, didn't make her help around the house and overlooked her wild behavior. Her DH was much the same way. Then they got married and had kids, and suddenly they're the Waltons, and both of them act like they lived pious, hard working, Godly lives their whole life. I wouldn't say the church they belong to is a cult, but I do think my sister has 100% reinvented her past to fit into what she now thinks is a 'proper' one. My sister will lecture her kids about how she never did X or Y when she was young, when I know good and well she did not only X, but Y and plenty of Z, too. DS and BIL lived together for a while before they got married, but they don't admit to that now. Now, you're going to hell if you kiss someone of the opposite sex prior to marriage. DS and BIL don't have alcohol in their house because they don't want their children to see them drinking. They've taught their kids that people who drink alcohol are bad people. Consequently, if we ever go out to a restaurant as a group, DH and I always make a point to order alcohol.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 4, 2015 17:12:14 GMT -5
souldoubt, Yeah, my brother has apparently gotten quite creative about his background that it's just so uncomfortable to be around. And it's not just a matter of perspective it's deliberate manipulation of the facts. I find myself want to keep correcting the record so his kids know the truth. I just find it easier to avoid him. He's not going to change. Since my dad won't talk to him and his two oldest kids stopped speaking to him I don't think I'm alone. My little sister and her DH have gone this route. LS used to be fairly wild, in HS. She barely got C's, partied a lot, never had to do chores at home, bragged to me (her older sister) that she was trying different drugs and sleeping around. Since she was the baby of the family, mom spoiled her with money, didn't make her help around the house and overlooked her wild behavior. Her DH was much the same way. Then they got married and had kids, and suddenly they're the Waltons, and both of them act like they lived pious, hard working, Godly lives their whole life. I wouldn't say the church they belong to is a cult, but I do think my sister has 100% reinvented her past to fit into what she now thinks is a 'proper' one. My sister will lecture her kids about how she never did X or Y when she was young, when I know good and well she did not only X, but Y and plenty of Z, too. DS and BIL lived together for a while before they got married, but they don't admit to that now. Now, you're going to hell if you kiss someone of the opposite sex prior to marriage. DS and BIL don't have alcohol in their house because they don't want their children to see them drinking. They've taught their kids that people who drink alcohol are bad people. Consequently, if we ever go out to a restaurant as a group, DH and I always make a point to order alcohol. Houses of cards like your DS and BIL have built often crumble hard.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 17:16:56 GMT -5
No kidding.
If anyone is interested in a good book about FLDS read Jon Krakaur's Under the Banner of Heaven. He does give a short history of LDS and it's wacky founder.
For a simple example of how whacky Mormon beliefs are, imagine having two, three, four, or more wives. And the significant possibility that sooner or later they will all be mad at you at the same time. (OK, I'm just poking fun here. No need to get offended on behalf of the followers of any particular religious beliefs.) Or consider a reciprocal religion, where a woman has multiple husbands. All five of the "Bands", sitting around drinking beer, high fiving, and watching football all day every Saturday and Sunday for five or six months of the year. Could be a little annoying. Having one spouse to annoy you/be annoyed with you is enough. I am waiting for the religious epiphany & tablets to come to me to enlighten the world on Harems of men. But with what you describe, I still don't think the lawn will get mowed, the garbage taken out, the plumbing repaired, the laundry washed & folded, healthy meals cooked and dishwasher filled/emptied. Even if that is what the tablets decree the men's duty to their Divine is.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on May 4, 2015 17:42:47 GMT -5
No kidding.
If anyone is interested in a good book about FLDS read Jon Krakaur's Under the Banner of Heaven. He does give a short history of LDS and it's wacky founder.
For a simple example of how whacky Mormon beliefs are, imagine having two, three, four, or more wives. And the significant possibility that sooner or later they will all be mad at you at the same time. (OK, I'm just poking fun here. No need to get offended on behalf of the followers of any particular religious beliefs.) Or consider a reciprocal religion, where a woman has multiple husbands. All five of the "Bands", sitting around drinking beer, high fiving, and watching football all day every Saturday and Sunday for five or six months of the year. Could be a little annoying. Having one spouse to annoy you/be annoyed with you is enough. Well as one of my good friends said about Muslim men and having four wives; it might be great to have four wives but who wants four mothers-in-law?
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 4, 2015 18:50:37 GMT -5
For a simple example of how whacky Mormon beliefs are, imagine having two, three, four, or more wives. And the significant possibility that sooner or later they will all be mad at you at the same time. (OK, I'm just poking fun here. No need to get offended on behalf of the followers of any particular religious beliefs.) Or consider a reciprocal religion, where a woman has multiple husbands. All five of the "Bands", sitting around drinking beer, high fiving, and watching football all day every Saturday and Sunday for five or six months of the year. Could be a little annoying. Having one spouse to annoy you/be annoyed with you is enough. I am waiting for the religious epiphany & tablets to come to me to enlighten the world on Harems of men. But with what you describe, I still don't think the lawn will get mowed, the garbage taken out, the plumbing repaired, the laundry washed & folded, healthy meals cooked and dishwasher filled/emptied. Even if that is what the tablets decree the men's duty to their Divine is. I'm thinking I may want to convert to Darnellism. I really like the whole brother husbands thing.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 4, 2015 19:01:25 GMT -5
For a simple example of how whacky Mormon beliefs are, imagine having two, three, four, or more wives. And the significant possibility that sooner or later they will all be mad at you at the same time. (OK, I'm just poking fun here. No need to get offended on behalf of the followers of any particular religious beliefs.) Or consider a reciprocal religion, where a woman has multiple husbands. All five of the "Bands", sitting around drinking beer, high fiving, and watching football all day every Saturday and Sunday for five or six months of the year. Could be a little annoying. Having one spouse to annoy you/be annoyed with you is enough. Well as one of my good friends said about Muslim men and having four wives; it might be great to have four wives but who wants four mothers-in-law? Meh --- he should just marry four sisters -> only one MIL
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on May 4, 2015 19:13:01 GMT -5
I've had Deadheads for friends. They are okay. They just loved the Dead and I get that.
I fired a cleaning lady who I didn't know was in to Amway. She signed me up as one of her people. That was the end of her cleaning my house.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on May 5, 2015 12:55:58 GMT -5
For a simple example of how whacky Mormon beliefs are, imagine having two, three, four, or more wives. And the significant possibility that sooner or later they will all be mad at you at the same time. (OK, I'm just poking fun here. No need to get offended on behalf of the followers of any particular religious beliefs.) Or consider a reciprocal religion, where a woman has multiple husbands. All five of the "Bands", sitting around drinking beer, high fiving, and watching football all day every Saturday and Sunday for five or six months of the year. Could be a little annoying. Having one spouse to annoy you/be annoyed with you is enough. I am waiting for the religious epiphany & tablets to come to me to enlighten the world on Harems of men. But with what you describe, I still don't think the lawn will get mowed, the garbage taken out, the plumbing repaired, the laundry washed & folded, healthy meals cooked and dishwasher filled/emptied. Even if that is what the tablets decree the men's duty to their Divine is. Want to think about something really scarey? Consider four or five husbands. All the inept, but testosterone fueled, Tim (the Tool Man) Taylor types. Scheming together on how to make taking out the gabage the most spectacular and fastest event of the week. Or challenging each other on who makes the hottest, and most flatulence inducing chili. Too many guys of a like mind spending a lot of time together may not be a good thing.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 5, 2015 16:06:14 GMT -5
I am waiting for the religious epiphany & tablets to come to me to enlighten the world on Harems of men. But with what you describe, I still don't think the lawn will get mowed, the garbage taken out, the plumbing repaired, the laundry washed & folded, healthy meals cooked and dishwasher filled/emptied. Even if that is what the tablets decree the men's duty to their Divine is. Want to think about something really scarey? Consider four or five husbands. All the inept, but testosterone fueled, Tim (the Tool Man) Taylor types. Scheming together on how to make taking out the gabage the most spectacular and fastest event of the week. Or challenging each other on who makes the hottest, and most flatulence inducing chili. Too many guys of a like mind spending a lot of time together may not be a good thing. You just have to manage them. Every day, at least two of them should be off at work. One will be cleaning around the house, one to "amuse" the wife. Perfect.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on May 6, 2015 8:41:59 GMT -5
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