College graduation vent

[cael]

It's that time of year. Anyone have any graduates this year? My husband's been at community college for the last 2.5 years to get his associate's degree. We've been waiting with baited breath to hear that he's approved to graduate in May... he went in to check his status today, and was told he's 3 credits short and needs one business class.   this is after he checked with his program a few months ago that he had met all his requirements, and was told he had. I hate this. This happened to at least one other friend of ours at this same school, and while he's had a good experience there otherwise, this kills me. This happened to me too (different school though), I had a scattered advisor who "missed" that 6 of my credits didn't transfer. I was lucky enough to catch it early, take 6 credits of WINTER session classes over two weeks and one summer class and got my diploma in September... but I'm afraid DH will have to wait until fall to take his last class, his school doesn't have any summer courses that would meet the requirement. The local state uni does appear to have a course that might work, so I told him to check on that and we'll sign him up if his school will take it. I don't know if a community college would take a state college course, but these schools have a transfer agreement with each other, so maybe. Either way, this probably takes away walking in graduation for him entirely, or at least delays him until a YEAR from now when he'll have already gotten the diploma and probably wouldn't want to go to graduation. Graduation was going to be a really big deal for him. 

I know no one's perfect and people in academic offices generally try their best to be helpful and do the right thing for students, but seriously. Just so frustrated and sad for him because he's upset. 

[greeniis10]

Oh no!  I'm so sorry for your husband.  What a mess.  I hope that after he gets through the initial disappointment and finishes the necessary credits that he'll walk in the graduation ceremony, be it a delayed one, and still enjoy every minute of it. 

DSD is graduating from community college this May and we already have 2 college-sponsored events and 2 family-sponsored events to attend.  I'm super happy for her to be finishing.  She completed the radiology technology program within the scheduled time frame while getting married and having TWO babies during that time.  But how many events do we need?

Oldest DS passed his orals and was approved for his dissertation but he refuses to walk in a ceremony until he is done and published.  He's aiming for two years, but we'll see.

[cael]

She completed the radiology technology program within the scheduled time frame while getting married and having TWO babies during that time.

Wow, congrats to her! That's great! (and cannot have been remotely easy!)

Yeah, I hope he still wants to walk. I think it'll really make him feel good about what he's accomplished and everyone is super proud of him, so we'll work on it. 

[jitterbug]

This seems to be a fairly common problem, which makes NO SENSE considering what people pay for a college education!  But I have a co-worker who's facing the same thing - he'll graduate in May - but he has to pick up one extra class this summer to actually graduate.  This is after being in frequent communication with the school.  His son attended theological school in Chicago and was assured he had everything he needed to graduate in May, so he packed up his family and moved them back home - about 4 hours from Chicago - then gets an "oops, we're sorry - you need 6 more credit hours." 

Just one more reason why I hate the BS of college.  It's not about educating us, making us better.  It's all about how much money the SCHOOL can make!

[cael]

Apr 10, 2015 13:46:29 GMT -5 jitterbug said:

This seems to be a fairly common problem, which makes NO SENSE considering what people pay for a college education!  But I have a co-worker who's facing the same thing - he'll graduate in May - but he has to pick up one extra class this summer to actually graduate.  This is after being in frequent communication with the school.  His son attended theological school in Chicago and was assured he had everything he needed to graduate in May, so he packed up his family and moved them back home - about 4 hours from Chicago - then gets an "oops, we're sorry - you need 6 more credit hours." 

Just one more reason why I hate the BS of college.  It's not about educating us, making us better.  It's all about how much money the SCHOOL can make!

Yeah. I'm always afraid DH is missing or skipping steps with important things like navigating through college and loans and stuff, just because he isn't organized, gets lazy about things and doesn't like 'fessing up to mistakes to get help. However, he explained what they told him, I realized another friend had the same problem a year ago, and listening to how upset he was, he definitely tried with this. At least it's just one class. When I was in undergrad I was lucky my advisor even noticed my missing 6 credits in enough time for me to sign up for winter classes over break to make up for them. No way in hell I wanted to pay to live on campus for another semester plus have to take more classes there (classes at state uni at home were cheaper).

Sadly, if DH's college will take the summer class at the state uni over the summer, I'll be paying almost double for that one class as compared to a class at his school, but oh well, at this point I'll do it just to get him finished. 

[alabamagal]

I've been to 3 college graduations in the last 3 years. DD, future DIL, then DS last December. Ceremonies are pretty long and boring. All were at fairly large schools.

I don't care for the ceremonies but insist that my kids attend. All have been 2-4 hours drive away.

Hardest one to attend was future DIL because it was spring graduation at a large college in a small town. Even though we looked 2 months in advance we could not get a hotel within 2 hours drive, so we ended up 4 hour drive thee and back.

Coming up we have future DIL masters degree next year then DS2 year after.

[milee]

Apr 10, 2015 15:22:10 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

I've been to 3 college graduations in the last 3 years. DD, future DIL, then DS last December. Ceremonies are pretty long and boring. All were at fairly large schools.

I don't care for the ceremonies but insist that my kids attend. All have been 2-4 hours drive away. 

Not arguing, just curious - why insist the kids attend?

[cael]

My mom insisted I walk in my graduation... I actually didn't particularly want to, since I wasn't done with all my classes yet. I guess I'm happy I did? But... it was in a damp football stadium with thousands of other kids so there was nothing personal about it. There were some speeches and we sat there, then that was really it. I think my parents didn't want me to regret not walking, and they probably wanted it for themselves too

DH (if he walks) should actually have his named called and go up and get a diploma, I think. (well, maybe not if he gets it in September and walks the next May. I'm sure his name would be read at least, his college is way smaller than mine was)

[cael]

Poor DH got home and actually got sniffly when I hugged him. He's super bummed.   ::sigh:: worst case he'll just have to take the last class in the fall and get his diploma in December... we have a friend who works at the state uni who's going to look into whether that summer class would transfer to his college.

[milee]

No worries, I won't derail this thread with that question (because now I have more!). Will start another thread.

[tskeeter]

Apr 10, 2015 13:07:40 GMT -5 cael said:

It's that time of year. Anyone have any graduates this year? My husband's been at community college for the last 2.5 years to get his associate's degree. We've been waiting with baited breath to hear that he's approved to graduate in May... he went in to check his status today, and was told he's 3 credits short and needs one business class.   this is after he checked with his program a few months ago that he had met all his requirements, and was told he had. I hate this. This happened to at least one other friend of ours at this same school, and while he's had a good experience there otherwise, this kills me. This happened to me too (different school though), I had a scattered advisor who "missed" that 6 of my credits didn't transfer. I was lucky enough to catch it early, take 6 credits of WINTER session classes over two weeks and one summer class and got my diploma in September... but I'm afraid DH will have to wait until fall to take his last class, his school doesn't have any summer courses that would meet the requirement. The local state uni does appear to have a course that might work, so I told him to check on that and we'll sign him up if his school will take it. I don't know if a community college would take a state college course, but these schools have a transfer agreement with each other, so maybe. Either way, this probably takes away walking in graduation for him entirely, or at least delays him until a YEAR from now when he'll have already gotten the diploma and probably wouldn't want to go to graduation. Graduation was going to be a really big deal for him. 

I know no one's perfect and people in academic offices generally try their best to be helpful and do the right thing for students, but seriously. Just so frustrated and sad for him because he's upset. 

Not necessarily the CC's fault.  May depend on who was checked with each time.  If he checked with the "program" office they probably checked to see that he would meet the requriements for the program.  They wouldn't necessarily check that he had the classes required for graduation that are outside the program requirements, stuff like general ed classes.  For example, if he was pursuing an AA in accounting, the program office would check to see that he would complete the appropriate accounting and, maybe, business classes, in time for graduation.  But they probably wouldn't check to see that he'd completed philosophy and underwaterbasketweaving 101.

[cael]

You generally use your advisors to guide you through what it takes to complete your program overall... right? That's how mine worked. His advisor followed a flow sheet with him for his degree, which includes general ed requirements. What it sounds like happened is that his advisor assumed/thought/said that a class he took his first semester (before he was in any degree program) counted for a business elective he needed, but the powers-that-be said it doesn't count for that elective. Hard to question what your advisor says, especially if you haven't been through this before. I'd be the first to agree if I thought there was something DH could've done differently, but this time it sounds like he took the advice he was given and thought the advisor was correct, which is reasonable enough IMHO. 

(I see what you're saying. That hasn't been my experience in college though - my advisor guided me towards graduation and completion of everything. That was at a big university too, not a smaller CC with a lot of non-traditional and first-time older students who need the guidance.)

[chen35]

My school had a setup where you logged into your account, selected the degree you wanted, and it would run an audit report against your transcripts to tell you what was missing. This was 10 years ago. Doesn't seem like it should be that difficult...

I'm sorry he is dealing with that, how annoying!

[alabamagal]

At my kids universities (3 different ones) you just log onto your account and go to the online transcript and it will give you a list of what you need to take to finish your major and minor. I'm sure there could be issues but if you get them resolved early graduation shouldn't be an issue

[flutterby]

That's awful. It's not the end of the world, but it's such a psychological blow when you think you're almost done and then find out you're not. I feel bad for him.

I just graduated the end of February, still waiting for my diploma to show up in the mail (I'm not walking). I kept both the email and the voicemail from my advisor telling me I had everything I needed to graduate because I was so paranoid of this very thing happening.

[cael]

Yeah. I log into my school account every single day, partially for HW and grades and partially for my account balance (but I'm OCD). I don't know if his school's system allows him to do that, but he has always preferred to just go into the school and talk to someone face to face. He didn't do his FAFSA online, he went into the financial aid office and did it with someone. For advising he always just spoke to his advisor face to face. It's his way to make sure he understands things and (supposedly) gets all the information he needs. I always tell him he needs to be aware of what's going on with his sh*t, and he has seemed to make a pretty good effort to keep on top of it for school, I'm trying to give him credit where I believe it's due (for once  )

If this is his one problem at the end it's super frustrating... but luckily not the end of the world.

[cael]

Apr 10, 2015 18:26:58 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

I think it's more typical at CCs to have to figure out everything on your own. DH saw his adviser once a year at CC for 15 minutes if he called and scheduled the appt.  I actually figured out all the classes he needed, the transfer requirements, what classes he needed every quarter, and filled out his graduation paperwork. I went to a UC and got way more help and time with my adviser - an hour a quarter IIRC. When I transferred to a CC to catch up so I could reenter the UC my adviser from the UC kept in contact with me to make sure I was making progress.

Making matters worse, students attending community colleges generally get little to no one-on-one time with counselors or academic advisors who can help them select a major, plot courses, and monitor progress towards a degree—standard practices at most four-year schools. A 2013 Georgetown University study found that selective, four-year schools have anywhere from two to five times the resources for students than do the nation’s open-enrollment community colleges

researchers have found that when students with similar test scores and grades attend community college or a four-year school, the latter are far more likely to earn a degree.

The conventional wisdom that casts community college as a pragmatic, budget-friendly option isn’t accurate at all. Few community college students rack up the necessary course credits after enrolling to move on smoothly and get their bachelor’s degrees.

www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/01/where-obamas-community-colleges-plan-falls-short/384425/

It's one of the reasons I think CCs can be penny wise and pound foolish.

Interesting.. I feel it should be the opposite - I would think CCs might have a higher amount of non-traditional and older students, who may need the help more and don't have the skills right away to manage it all themselves. I'm generally a big fan of CCs because around here at least, they provide a lower cost option in a usually more easily accessible location for a wider range of people from different areas/income levels.

Guess it's all about money - if I pay more to go to a bigger university maybe I'll get more advising/help bang for my buck?

[Phoenix84]

Not to sound preachy, but I never relied on the school counselors to tell me what I needed to graduate and what classes I had left.

All that stuff is published on the school's website, at least in my experience.

[cael]

The problem is that he had a vacant elective spot on his flow sheet he was told he could fill with a class he took - then is told sorry jk, that's wrong, surprise! He followed the flow sheet for the degree program for the whole 2.5 years he's been enrolled in it.

The point is he's sad and frustrated and I wish there was something we could do. He had as good a handle on his degree program's requirements as I would've expected most people to have.

[cael]

Right now he dining room manages for a caterer, so he's working, but it's PT hours (usually between 20-30 weekly, more in the summer/fall, less for a month or two in the winter). He wants a FT job in a hotel, so another class might just make him have to wait longer to look for one, but I figure if he has to take a morning class in the fall, or a once-a-week night class, maybe it won't be an issue. He's going to start looking over the summer anyway.

[tskeeter]

Apr 10, 2015 18:26:58 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

I think it's more typical at CCs to have to figure out everything on your own. DH saw his adviser once a year at CC for 15 minutes if he called and scheduled the appt.  I actually figured out all the classes he needed, the transfer requirements, what classes he needed every quarter, and filled out his graduation paperwork. I went to a UC and got way more help and time with my adviser - an hour a quarter IIRC. When I transferred to a CC to catch up so I could reenter the UC my adviser from the UC kept in contact with me to make sure I was making progress.

Making matters worse, students attending community colleges generally get little to no one-on-one time with counselors or academic advisors who can help them select a major, plot courses, and monitor progress towards a degree—standard practices at most four-year schools. A 2013 Georgetown University study found that selective, four-year schools have anywhere from two to five times the resources for students than do the nation’s open-enrollment community colleges

researchers have found that when students with similar test scores and grades attend community college or a four-year school, the latter are far more likely to earn a degree.

The conventional wisdom that casts community college as a pragmatic, budget-friendly option isn’t accurate at all. Few community college students rack up the necessary course credits after enrolling to move on smoothly and get their bachelor’s degrees.

www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/01/where-obamas-community-colleges-plan-falls-short/384425/

It's one of the reasons I think CCs can be penny wise and pound foolish.

While the CC graduation statistics don't surprise me, I don't think the results are a commentary on the quality of the schools as much as they are a comment on the attributes of the students.  First, the motivations of a 4 year college student and a CC college student are probably very different.  A significant portion of 4 year students start their college education with the intent to get a bachelor's degree and often a professional certification.  On the other hand, many CC college students are in more trade oriented programs and I suspect that they will often leave school before graduation if they get a job opportunity in their chosen field.  Second, on the whole, the academic capabilities of CC students are different than students at 4 year institutions.  The portion of students requiring remedial assistance in the local CC is about four times as high as the the portion of students at the local 4 year university who need remedial help.  And I would expect that the CC programs are not as academically demanding as the university programs.  I'd expect these struggling students would be more likely to drop out than students who are not experiencing similar challenges.  Third is that you probably have a higher percentage of CC students who are pursuing career retraining than in a 4 year school.  I expect that if students working on career retraining are more likely to leave school before graduation if they have an opportunity to return to work using their existing skills set.  And that the financial pressures on this older group of students may make them more inclined to leave school for a job in any field where they can earn what they consider to be an adequate income.  

[hoops902]

Apr 12, 2015 20:04:12 GMT -5 cael said:

The problem is that he had a vacant elective spot on his flow sheet he was told he could fill with a class he took - then is told sorry jk, that's wrong, surprise! He followed the flow sheet for the degree program for the whole 2.5 years he's been enrolled in it.

The point is he's sad and frustrated and I wish there was something we could do. He had as good a handle on his degree program's requirements as I would've expected most people to have.

Very similar thing happened to me at a 4 year school.  They had different requirements for double major vs dual degree.  I was "on track" for dual degree for 5 years because accounting needed more credits to get a CPA license.  I had to submit my graduation plan a year before I planned to graduate, four times, to the same department (once for Honors, once for dual degree, once for each of my degrees individually)...all approved.  Halfway through my last semester I had to fill out a thing to apply for the diploma or something and they came back and said I needed 1.5 more elective credits for dual degree.  I tried to work something out to get graduate courses to count later since I was continuing on to get an MBA but that didn't fly.  They then started talking about how they could get me the MBA paperwork to apply, and when I told them I wasn't going to get my MBA there if they'd screwed my degrees up so royally they gave me some 1.5 credit elective about work experience and dual degreed me. 

See if the CC will give him credit for life experience, or work experience, or any other random elective.  It's not like he's missing a core class.  Even more likely to work if he's got any of their screwups documented.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

This isn't something exclusive to community colleges. Same thing happened at the 4 year university I attended.

They missed I didn't have a 1 credit lecture on Trigometry that I was required to have as part of my major requirements. My advisor tried to have it waived since I had completed College Alegbra but the registrar's office told us tough cookies.

I would have had to wait until spring to take that stupid lecture. My advisor worked things out so I got into Introduction to Calculus instead which also counted as a major's course. Then we had to do a dance to cram in everything else I needed to graduate.

When I did work study in the registrar's office there was a student in tears once b/c she couldn't graduate. She was told an elective counted but upon analysis they decided it didn't, she had to take something else instead that wasn't available till the following fall. Despite multiple appeals they refused to budge.

[cael]

I've never attended CC so I don't know from experience, and I agree there are more students who are older, non-traditional and maybe more likely to quit before graduating at CC than at a 4yr school. I would argue though, that they should have that higher level of help and assistance like a bigger university based on all these things re: the demographics and backgrounds of the students. It's too bad that something like the level of help available to navigate your degree program should compound these issues many CC students already face. I feel if a person puts in the effort to start college either for the first time, after a long break, or with sketchy previous educational experience they deserve the same support regardless of their success rate that traditional students would get. In the end I know it's probably all about funding and staffing.


(DH's college honestly is not terrible, and I know many people who have actually liked attending that school *better* than the state uni.)