circuit in SE Asia

[Deleted]

We are planning a trip to SE Asia to see DD and visit the area. I am very busy at work and feeling overwhelmed because everything seems very foreign to me (unlike when I plan trips in the US or Europe). 

I was hoping that somebody might have suggestions for a circuit. We are going away for 3.5 weeks, but I want a week on the beach. 

We are going to Thailand, Cambodia, and Laos. We are NOT going to Vietnam because of the temps at that time of year. (I know they will be the same at Siem Riep / Angkor Wat in Cambodia but I prefer to minimize the time spent in great heat.) 

We are flying in and out of Bangkok. I've already reserved the flights. We prefer to travel by land whenever possible (or boat) for budgetary reasons, and to see the landscapes.

My sister, who is nearly 70, will probably be meeting us in Bangkok and travelling with us. That is another consideration, I feel the need to "rough it" less if she is coming with us. 

I think we will spend two nights in Bangkok, and then take the northern circuit, and take the overnight train from Bangkok to Chang Mai. That's about all I know so far lol. 

Does anybody have any suggestions for the circuit? My DS1 (who has already been there) suggested a circuit but my DD will have a week off, and she absolutely wants to leave Laos (where she is living / working for a year) so I want to look into alternatives. 

The idea was for us to visit DD in Laos and then for her to leave with us. But since she absolutely wants to spend some time outside of Laos, I want to try to accommodate her, even if that means we leave without her and she joins us later. She wants to go to Siem Riep / Angkor Wat with us, even if that means she leaves after we do. If we could do a few days on the beach with her somewhere too, that would be great. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Unlike all the other trips I've planned, this one seems overwhelming. 

Many thanks!

[Deleted]

Haven't been, sorry. I hope you have a great time! 

I will say, depending on if others can help, when something seems totally foreign and overwhelming, that is a time when talking to a professional travel person might be worthwhile, particularly with knowledge of the particular area. You aren't going to get to do this often I'm guessing, and paying a little bit might be worth getting the most out of, and feeling more confident about your plans, for the trip...

Good luck finding what you need! 

[Deleted]

Thanks Oped ... I spoke to a Chinese friend about this, she suggested an agency but they only do organized tours, and we really really didn't want to do that. 

If a bunch of 20YOs can do it, we can too LOL! 

It's late here so I have to go to bed. I have a long day at work tomorrow and we are out tomorrow evening so please forgive me if I don't get back to this thread for a day or so. 

[Deleted]

Oped, you just gave me a fabulous idea! Our closest friends have a sister / SIL in Singapore, and they always spend a week with her, and then her sister's travel agent books them a trip in Asia. I'm going to ask my friend for her info and she if she can suggest something!

Thank you!!!

I did look into it here, but we absolutely did not want a get-of-the-plane, get-on-the-bus type of trip. I'm going to email my friend and ask her for her sister's contact in Singapore, and see if she can help us with a more personalized circuit.

ETA: Done, I emailed our friends! 

[Bonny]

Bragplaint!

I'd get on Trip Advisor and/or Lonely Planet. Lonely Planet usually has some suggested itineraries. Trip Advisor has some knowledgeable locals.

I'm totally jealous!

[NastyWoman]

@debthaven2, I'll ask DS1 for input as well.  He books his own trips but I can ask him for a recommendation for a travel agent. That contact would also be S'pore based though.

[Deleted]

Bonny, believe me, it's not. I've looked, that's how I finally managed to decide on the first leg lol. 

ETA: Bonny, most of those itineraries are 10-14 days, and they involve a lot of internal flights, which we are trying to avoid. DH and I had decided to do NO internal flights (since we opted to fly direct with Air France). But if my much older sister is coming, we may do ONE, but it has to be chosen very judiciously. 

We are fans of overnight trains or buses ... they generally leave / arrive in more central places than airports, they are cheap, and you save the cost of a hotel room (or in our case, 3 hotel rooms ...)

[travelnut11]

I spent 2.5 weeks in Cambodia and Laos last year and you can absolutely do this on your own and don't need to do a tour.  I'll go look through my stuff and see what tips/recommendations I can give you.  What are your priorities/interests?  There's so much to see and do that it's hard to narrow down without that info.  I know you said you don't need to rough it but what's your ideal hotel per night cost?  "Not roughing it" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. 

Here's my trip blog if you want to see where I went and what I did: sphillip11.wordpress.com/

[Deleted]

Thank you Joss, that would be great! I always book our own trips too, but like I said, this seems overwhelming. Also, I'm really busy now, but my semester is over in 3 weeks. I'm worried that booking in late April (before finals come around) will be too late, but maybe I have more time than I think? 

Night everyone, and thanks again!

[Deleted]

Oh wow travelnut, thank you!!! That's fantastic! What time of year did you go? 

DS3 will be 17 in May, so too old to share a room with us. Even if it's logistically possible, he hates it (understandably) and we are all miserable. He will share with DD when she is with us. So we are hoping to pay 50 euros or dollars per night per hotel room, for 2 rooms, with some exceptions. My sister will pay for her room of course.

Exceptions: We will be paying MUCH more for that to stay in DD's hotel (they offered to stick an extra bed in for DS3 but he'll probably stay with his sister that night). Also, DS1 told us we should get a nicer hotel with a pool in Siem Riep so we can visit the temples at dawn / dusk and stay at the hotel / pool during the hotter hours. I think that's what I'm most worried about booking.

And the boat trip to Luang Prabang ... what would you suggest? We want to do the 2-day boat trip. I'm tempted to take the "private boat", but I haven't checked out prices yet. 

We are definitely MUCH more about hiking / animals / nature than being in cities. I know some of the places DS1 mentioned, he camped there with friends, with backpacks, etc. We'd prefer to stay at a modest hotel and hike than go camping, especially with my 69YO sister. My friend who went to Thailand two years ago told me we are crazy to spend only 2 nights in Bangkok. So, we're crazy. We'll probably have to spend a night there at the end of our trip too, but I hate going into Paris, and I know it like the back of my hand LOL. 

The other thing I absolutely want to do is a tour to an elephant conservation area. DD knows a lot about those so she can advise us on that, and we can stay in her city to do that. I'm also a waterfall fanatic, there are famous waterfalls just outside of where she is living / working. 

I need hotels to be clean and well-situated, but I am fine with very simple hotels. I'm absolutely NOT a posh hotel / spa / fancy restaurant type of girl. 

We will have to have a very fancy meal out, again, at DD's restaurant. But to me, like staying in her hotel (at a VERY GENEROUS discount) that's par for the course, and that needs to be budgeted. Unlike an anonymous traveller, we don't really have any way out of those two things (DD's very expensive hotel and a very expensive meal there). So, we need to keep the other expenses down. 

That's how we travel in general: keep prices down where we can, so we can splurge where we want to (or in this situation, also where we sort of have to, ie spending one night in DD's hotel and going out for dinner there). 

ETA: I bookmarked your blog, THANK YOU!!! I have to go to bed now, up in 6 hours. I will look at it as soon as I can! Please forgive me if it takes me a few days, I want to do all my work / marking by Friday and leave the weekend for that. 

ETA2: Does 50 USD or euros sound reasonable to you?

[plugginaway22]

OMG jealous!  keep us updated on where you are going!  your DD must be so excited that you are all coming!

[travelnut11]

No problem debthaven.  The blog is just for your reference and if you're interested.  No worries if you don't get to it. 

I'm not sure if I missed it but when are you going?  I was there in late Jan/early Feb last year.  It was plenty hot then so if you're going any time close to summer I think you're going to hit heat wherever you go.

First, some general information:

1. I found the best hotel booking website in SE Asia to be You can search by a lot of factors including amenities (eg. pool), price and neighborhood.  I usually did a general search on Agoda and then once I narrowed down my options searched on the hotels' individual websites to see if I could find a better deal.  Usually they were the same price and even occasionally the Agoda price was cheaper so I ended up using that one the most.  You will have no trouble in SE Asia on $50 per room per night.  Unless I misunderstand and you mean $25 x 2 rooms=$50 per night?  Either way you should have plenty of options if you don't need super luxury.

2.  I'm operating under the assumption that your daughter is in Luang Prabang?  If not my recommendations might be slightly different but for now I'll assume she's in LP.

3.  Given your desire for scenery, hiking (trekking) and nature I'd focus more time on northern Thailand and Laos.  I know you want to do Angkor Wat as well and there are some other interesting things in Cambodia but 2.5 weeks (if you take out one week for the beach) is not a huge amount of time.  I prefer slower travel though so if you guys like to be on the move more you can probably squeeze more in. 

4.  I would reconsider your avoidance of internal flights.  Transport in SE Asia is NOTHING like the highly efficient transport in Europe (particularly in Laos).  Have you done much developing world travel before?  Things often do not go smoothly and will not be comfortable all the time.  For me on a trip that short I'd rather spring for a short flight than waste an entire day in travel on a bus that may break down traveling across a road that may be impassable at points.

5.  Thorntree forums on Lonely Planet are useful though geared towards backpackers with more time than money.  Still, lots of good information.  Tripadvisor is useful as well as a cross-reference for reviews of places you might find on Agoda (which also has reviews) and other trekking/boat cruise agencies.

Having said that, here's my recommendation for you as far as a potential circuit and you could easily subtract some things out.

1. Arrive Bangkok
2. Bangkok to Chang Mai overnight train
3. Chang Mai (possible stop in Chang Rai?) to Thai/Laos border Houay Xay to catch boat to Luang Prabang
4. (Option: up the Nam Tha river from the border town of Houay Xay is Luang Namtha which is considered the best trekking in Laos.  It's a bit remote and difficult to get to but is supposed to be amazing and I hear the road is much improved lately. A boat is an option as well but I think the schedule is not predictable.).
5. Houay Xay to Luang Prabang.  The backpackers will take a miserable slow boat with hard wooden seats but there are better options:

a. Luang Say Cruise (luxury boat option and by far the most expensive www.luangsay.com/)
b. Shompoo Cruise (better than slow boat, cheaper than Luang Say.  Gets good reviews. www.shompoocruise.com/index.html)
c. Nagi of Mekong (similar to Shompoo as far as price with less information available online.)

6. Luang Prabang.  Since I'm assuming your daughter is here she can fill you in on what to do.  I couldn't get to Luang Namtha so did my excursions/river/countryside stuff in Nong Khiaw which is a 3-4 hour minibus ride from LP (see blog for more on what I did here).
7. LP to Siem Reap - Here is where I would fly.  It would be a long and arduous overland trek down to Siem Reap from LP and I don't recall the flight being all that expensive.  There are direct flights between the two.  Again, if your daughter is not in LP and is somewhere south my thoughts might be different.
8. At this point there are some options.  Cambodia has other interesting things to see (4000 islands with pink dolphins) and some beaches (Kampot, SihanoukVille) but they are not considered to be all that nice for the kind of beach vacation I think you're looking for.  I would probably at this point fly back to Thailand and spend a week on a beach there.

This is my idea based on what you've told me and some research I did for my trip.  I only did #6 and #7 plus Phnom Pehn (which you should skip) but I prefer slower travel so spend more time in fewer places.  I haven't been to Thailand at all but my understanding is that it's VERY easy to travel through as a Westerner and has some truly amazing beaches.  Much of the beach stuff depends on the season I think and since I'm not sure when you're going I can't offer much information there but it's a very popular beach location so the information should be readily available.

In Siem Reap I stayed two different places (both have pools which are recommended in the heat/dust of Siem Reap):
1. This was my splurge hotel. It will probably be slightly out of your price range but I liked that it was walkable to central Siem Reap for more dining options: Sonalong Boutique Village and Resort  
2. I also stayed here for two nights before I flew home: Golden Mango Inn. This place was very nice, way cheaper but further outside of town.  I didn't mind though as I had already done what I needed to do in central Siem Reap and just needed a decent place to crash for my last few nights.  They also have a complimentary tuk-tuk that will take you to central Siem Reap if you need to go (still tip a little bit if you can).

[Deleted]

Thank you SO MUCH! This was incredibly helpful! 

[NastyWoman]

@debthaven2 this is a hit and run/sleep post since it is midnight and time to get some zzzzz's.  I send you a PM

[HoneyBBQ]

I don't have TOO much to add but this: we spent 2 weeks in Thailand and didn't get to the southern beaches at all! I would focus on trying to narrow down what you really want to see; especially because you don't want to fly. We did BK, a week over by Burma (Kanchanaburi, bridge over river Kwai, etc), and a week in the north. And that was it. It's slow getting around, and VERY slow if you don't want to fly. I think you are over ambitious if you're trying to nail down 3 countries AND spend a week at a beach. I'd do Angor Wat for a week, a week at the beach, and 1.5 weeks doing BK and northern Thailand.



We took the train from BK to Chaing Mai, also. On the way up, we stopped at Ayutthaya which is a wonderfully scenic town. You can rent bikes and bike around to all the magnificent sites. 



I believe we did the overnight train on the way back. It was fine. It was not luxurious but it was not dirty or scary at least. Bring snacks. They will have a cart selling stuff but not all of it is identifiable.

Did not make it to Chaing Rai but heard it was magical.

Here are some of my personal photos:







Dog and Buddha. Instant enlightenment.

It's a truly beautiful place. Make sure you slow down and enjoy. 

[Deleted]

Thank you Honey! Those photos are wonderful!

I am definitely considering flying now, at least for one leg. 

Thanks everybody, your comments have been very helpful! 

[debthaven]

Small update. I (immediately) decided you were all right, the circuit we had initially planned (suggested by our 20-something son) was too ambitious. 

I've been very busy at school (today was the last day of my semester, but I'm not off, I still have work to do as well as 3 or 4 seasonal jobs lol). But I DO have more time now and I want to organize this before I get my finals on May 6 and May 7. 

Since I posted, my sister has found out that she has cardiac issues. It doesn't look like they are too serious, thank Gd. But, she declared she is NOT coming with us. I told her, you don't need to make any decisions yet, you'll see after all your test results are in. But obviously that made me want to streamline things even more. (I have also obviously told her that she can come with us for 2 weeks if she doesn't feel comfortable leaving the US for nearly 4.)

We were invited to lunch on Sunday to our best friends who have been to all of those places (but not on the same trip). They gave us precious advice. We have (as Travelnut also suggested) now definitively eliminated Phnom Pehn from our itinerary, we are spending more time in Siem Riep, and we are no longer against flying (although we do need to use flights judiciously for budgetary reasons). 

So it's still a work in progress, but it feels slightly more familiar, less ambitious and less overwhelming now. 

Honey, we are planning to take the night train to Chang Mai, so no stops along the way on the night train. We still haven't decided about Chang Rai. We are taking one of the three slow boats down the Mekong that Travelnut suggested, but I'm not sure which one yet. Our friends did the first "luxury" one Travelnut mentioned, which is $450 pp. That's WAY out of our budget. The other two seem very similar, and have very similar reviews, but they leave on different days. So we are waiting for DD to tell us which of those two she / her colleagues recommend (they are both between $150 and $200 pp.) We are also skipping Vang Vieng and probably Vientiane.

DD is indeed in Luang Prabang. We will probably spend more time there because of that, and do things outside LP that could also be done elsewhere (caves, elephant trek) so we can spend more time with or near DD. She will be spending at least a week travelling with us, perhaps 10 days or 2 weeks, we don't know yet. 

Also, we have decided to spend 4 nights in Siem Riep (with DD). I know Honey suggested spending a week, but that is too long for us, especially if my sister comes (she hates the heat). And we'll be spending 2 nights in Bangkok. I am NOT a city person, so 2 nights and 3 days will be PLENTY for me (plus we'll inevitably be going through Bangkok again on the way back). 

We're getting there!

Thanks again for all your help! Any more suggestions are welcome!

ETA: Honey, point definitely taken about not doing too much. BUT, we will NOT skip Laos, since that's where DD is, and seeing her is our primary reason for doing this trip.

[HoneyBBQ]

Hi debt - glad you made it back. Sorry to hear about your sister. I think your new plan sounds SOOOO much better. I think you will be very glad you slowed down as Thailand is definitely on a different time scale and booking things too close will make you unhappy. (e.g. the overnight train was 4 hours delayed, I believe)

[debthaven]

Honey, it's definitely the right decision. Our DS1 is 28, I think he was 21 when he went to SE Asia for the first time, he was backpacking and he had 6 weeks. He was also working in Cambodia at the time (he was in college) so I'm guessing some of the things he did in the region were over weekends. 

In fact, he and his GF just got back home after visiting Laos and DD (his sister). They did things he hadn't done on his previous trip, so I'm waiting till next weekend to talk to him about those new places (ie the 4000 islands). I know DS1 and DD have been talking about what we should and shouldn't do there.

There is also apparently a recently-discovered large cave system that has just been opened to the public. I am OBSESSED with caves so I want to go there if it is at all feasible, even if access is difficult. If it is, I'd rather save money / energy for that.

DH, DS3 and I have done some fairly crazy things in the past ... we travelled 30h to a remote part of the Corcovado, for example. But, we are older, and I want my sister to be able to join us if she can. 

[debthaven]

Also, because I think this info is VERY surprising ... I am a "prime customer" or whatever they call it on Agoda (which we used when we went to Jordan/Israel a few years ago). 

DH and I set up shop on our laptops, both in the same room ... DH had never signed up with them, because I'm generally the one who books everything. Even though I was a "prime customer", DH got significantly better rates on our 2 nights in Bangkok (which are the only hotels we have booked so far). 

That REALLY surprised me!!!

[TheOtherMe]

Have fun!  This sounds exciting.

[debthaven]

Thank you TheOtherMe! It IS exciting, but it's scary too lol!

We are definitely NOT used to traveling so far away (especially without DS1 LOL. Most of the more exotic trips we have done in the past have been with him and/or while visiting him). 

[Tennesseer]

debthaven-I am not sure if you have ever mentioned it but where was home for you in the United States?

A friend of mine (and his wife) worked and lived in Singapore on a 5 year expat work assignment.  They enjoyed living there very much.  Singapore was centrally located for them to travel all around southeast Asia and they did it quite often.  

Enjoy where ever you travel there. 

[debthaven]

Thanks Tenn!

I'm from Queens, NY, I went to college outside of Boston, and grad school outside of Chicago.

Those friends I mentioned ... her sister has lived in Singapore for many years. That's why they have been to all the places I have mentioned (and more) over the years, on separate trips. They always flew to Singapore to see her family, then took a 2 week vacation somewhere in SE Asia, went back to Singapore, and then flew home to France. Plus, they did a lot of it on her husband's air miles LOL. 

[Tennesseer]

Apr 21, 2015 18:10:16 GMT -5 debthaven said:

Thanks Tenn!

I'm from Queens, NY, I went to college outside of Boston, and grad school outside of Chicago.

Those friends I mentioned ... her sister has lived in Singapore for many years. That's why they have been to all the places I have mentioned (and more) over the years. They always flew to Singapore to see her family, then took a 2 week vacation somewhere in SE Asia, went back to Singapore, and then flew home to France. 

I am from Massachusetts and did a year of college in Boston. Lived on the corner of Commonwealth Ave and Arlington, right across the street from the Boston Public Gardens and Boston Common. Enjoyed living there.

[debthaven]

I'll bet!

I lived in Waltham LOL. 

[debthaven]

Another update ... I spoke to DS1 today. He did the original itinerary, and he and his GF just came back from visiting DD. 

I'm streamlining even more. Today (it took me literally ALL DAY) I booked a bunch of hotel rooms. 

We've basically cut down the number of destinations, and increased the number of nights in each destination. 

This is what our trip looks like so far:

- arrive in Bangkok. One night in Bangkok* (booked)
- night train to Chiang Mai. Two nights in Chiang Mai (hotel booked, train not booked)
- 1 day to get to the Thailand/Laos border (not booked but I got info)
- slow boat to LP (2 days, 1 night) (not booked but I got info)
- 1 week in LP. Because DD is there, we have opted to do as much as we can there, ie see the elephants there rather than in Thailand. We will also go hiking in northern Laos from LP instead of in southern Laos. (first 2 nights booked, elephants not booked but I got info. The rest not booked but DS1 told us we don't need to book there. I probably will anyway but it's not a priority).
- flight to Siem Riep. 4 nights (hotel booked, flights not booked)
- the rest of the trip on the beach (not booked)
- back to Bangkok (not booked)

But I FINALLY have a good idea of what we're doing and where we're going, so I'm happy! 

I booked only hotels with breakfast included, and only hotels with free cancellation. I am still hoping my sister will join us. By having free cancellation, either I can add another hotel room, or I can cancel in order to find 3 rooms in the same hotel. I should know if my sister is coming by mid May (it will depend on her medical results).

She was very funny on the phone tonight. You KNOW I'm not coming, she said. But what size valise do I need? What shoes do I need? How many of X are you taking? How many of Y? LOL!

*I know that one night in Bangkok is short but the boats to LP only leave 3X a week, so if we spend two nights in Bangkok, we'll have to wait 2 days for the next boat. We arrive in Bangkok at 6.30 am so we will have 2 full days there, plus we will go through Bangkok again on the way back.

Thanks again for all your help and suggestions! :-)

[Bonny]

Can't wait to see the pix!

[travelnut11]

Hi Debthaven-

I just wanted to let you know that I've been following this thread and think your new plan sounds great and much more reasonable than before!  I just had a baby so am finding it difficult to type one-handed which explains my delay in responding.    I like that you have your busy travel section in the beginning of the trip and end with total beach relaxation...that's exactly how I like to do it.  Luang Prabang is lovely and you will enjoy your time there.  4 nights in Siem Reap is plenty.  The town itself is a dusty, grubby little place with not much to see other than all the amazing temples.  You will find yourself "templed out" eventually but if you get a chance try to get out to some of the further afield temples (check out my blog entries see where I went).  I really enjoyed hiring a driver and getting out to the far temples where I was often the only person there and got to feel like an explorer.  Also, the floating villages near Siem Reap (very last blog entry) were very interesting if you get a chance do that as well.  There are some floating villages closer to SR but they're supposed to be very contrived and touristy.  The ones I went to were further away but well worth the jaunt.

Have a great trip!  Did you say yet when you're going?  My traveling is benched for a while with the new little one so I'll have to live vicariously through the rest of you all!

Travelnut11

[debthaven]

Congratulations on the baby Travelnut! :-)