Ethics: Accept job offer, then immediately leave?

[dragonfly7]

I interviewed for two jobs last Thursday. Both went very well, but I want Job B much more than Job A. The problem? IF I have an offer, I will hear from Job A a week sooner than Job B.

Job A: State government, entry-level position. This particular position is not really something I'm interested in, and will only advance my skills in terms of learning a piece of state government software, but I would not be sending my soul there to die. I can apply elsewhere in the department in 6 months. IF I have an offer, it will be by 5pm on Tuesday.

Job B: Nonprofit. I currently volunteer at a neighboring location, and the position is similar to my volunteer duties. I love the culture and the people. Opportunities to get paid to do it are rare, and it would make me very happy. My director is bending over backwards to make sure I get it. IF I have an offer, it will not be before next Monday.

If I receive an offer from Job A tomorrow, DH thinks I should go ahead and accept it and then walk away if I also receive one from Job B. While logical, immediately walking away seems like a sleazy thing to do, though given the position, I wouldn't be hard to replace this early on. However, if I go ahead and say no, I still might not get an offer from Job B. Your thoughts?

The pay, benefits, and cost of commuting are similar enough that the financials really don't matter. DH is very happy with what he does, and he just wants me to be happy, too.

[restless]

Can't you tell them you need a week to think about it?? If they think you are the perfect fit, they will wait.

[katedenorm]

This is one of the worst senerios nowadays. Feast or Famine.
If the job is an option and not necessity, I would wait for the one that you really want and would enjoy the most.
However; Karma tends to get bitchy....
Hope it all goes well for you. Good luck.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I also vote for telling them you'd like to wait a bit and see about this other offer. I did that to get this job. I had an offer come in, and I was interviewing for this job that evening. The offer I got was for a position I wasn't that excited about and the pay wasn't great. I told them I wanted to wait a few days and see how this other interview went before I made a decision.

[dragonfly7]

Restless, I did consider that. Since it is an entry-level position with what I assume is a large applicant pool, I'm not sure I can reasonably push it beyond Friday. It's worth a try.

They also know I'm not a perfect fit (overqualified in education and experience) and asked me how I would handle that during the interview. The associate director seemed pleased with my answer.

[restless]

Mar 7, 2011 17:45:06 GMT -5 @dragonfly7 said:

Restless, I did consider that. Since it is an entry-level position with what I assume is a large applicant pool, I'm not sure I can reasonably push it beyond Friday. It's worth a try.

They also know I'm not a perfect fit (overqualified in education and experience) and asked me how I would handle that during the interview. The associate director seemed pleased with my answer.

Hmm, are you sure they are going to make an offer? If you are overqualified then they might think you will quit as soon as you get a better opportunity. Why is the other job not making an offer until Monday?

[hoops902]

Mar 7, 2011 17:45:06 GMT -5 @dragonfly7 said:

Restless, I did consider that. Since it is an entry-level position with what I assume is a large applicant pool, I'm not sure I can reasonably push it beyond Friday. It's worth a try.

They also know I'm not a perfect fit (overqualified in education and experience) and asked me how I would handle that during the interview. The associate director seemed pleased with my answer.

This makes it seem like "can you wait a bit until I see how my other interview turns out" is gonna be the kiss of death. If they're already concerned you're overqualified, then pointing out that you might not want this job if you can get something better seems like it plays right into their fears about having you in the first place.

[debtheaven]

I had this come up recently ... I had much less at stake though. Both Jobs A and B were one-day-a-week jobs (I'm an ESL teacher). But I REALLY wanted Job A because it is literally FIVE minutes from home. I commute (sometimes quite far) three other days and I REALLY wanted this local job one day a week.

Job B's offer came in first (normal 45-60 min commute, suburb to city) ... at a slightly higher pay rate. I asked them for 48 hours to think about it. They told me they could give me 24. I then emailed Job A. I told them I had received a firm offer from Job B. But since I MUCH preferred to work for them (Job A), could they please be so kind as to give me an idea of the status of my application, so that I could make the right decision?

Less than 10 min later, Job A called and offered me the job. I was surprised, I was sure they would think it was a ploy. But the owner of the company told me (and THIS is why I'm posting) You were right to let us know! The worst thing you could have done was to have done nothing. I would have gotten back to you in a week or so, you would have already accepted the other offer, and then we both would have been disappointed. It's always better to be proactive.

It was a gamble, for sure. But I figured in a worst-case scenario, the guy would write back congratulating me on my (other) job offer, and at least I would know where I stood. But again, I had less at stake, this is not a "career" job. I already have two much better-paid teaching jobs, but I needed a third to "fill in the gaps" and I preferred to have one FIVE minutes from home!

So I would definitely try to be honest.

Another issue: are you currently employed? If so, you'll have to give your notice in anyway, and you'll get the answer while doing your two weeks. If you're not, the job you don't want may expect you to start ASAP. You could probably stall for a week, but not much more.

[whoisjohngalt]

OMG, I can not believe I am going to say this, but I think I agree with Snerdley.

On a side note, here is a story about the kind of things people do. My mgr hired a person once, he worked for a week and then disappeared. My mgr tried calling him at home, he was geniunely concerned that something bad happened to his guy. Turns out he never quit his previous job, when he got an offer from us, he accepted it and tried it out for a week to see if he liked it. He took a week vacation at his old job. I guess he didn't like it bc we never saw him again.

Lena

[midjd]

I think debtheaven's advice is spot-on. Any way you could take 24 hours to decide on Job A and contact Job B to tell them the situation?

[Deleted]

There is nothing unethical about starting a job, then getting an offer and moving on to another job. That is life. You go for the best possible job and everyone has a right to do so. They don't own you and they can also can you at any time as well. It is neither unethical nor unfair. People come and go, that is life.

In my profession, that is very unethical and would result in having your teaching certificate pulled. The best job in the world could come open, but you don't leave your current teaching position except in the summer. Even then they must be notifed by June 24, or they have no obligation to release you. Of course, we work under an implied contract that renews yearly unless you are notified otherwise.

[illinicheme]

I agree with the posters who have suggested asking for time to think about the offer, and then updating your other potential option on the status.

In my industry, I've never received an offer that I didn't have at least a couple of days to think about. I've received extra time to make a decision both times I've asked for it. It's also been fruitful to keep the company I'm most interested in updated once I have a firm offer in hand from someone else. (My first job out of school offered me a job on the same day I interviewed because they knew I was up against a deadline to decide on another offer. In my most recent job searching experience, I was able to string along a backup offer for at least two weeks until the offer I was really waiting for came through. And the offer that did come through was able to make it in ~3 weeks, which was EXTREMELY fast for them.)

Good luck. At the end of the day, you have to do what is best for you and your career by taking whatever job is best at the time. However, I would do whatever I could to avoid torching any bridges by taking a job and then immediately turning around and accepting something else.

ETA: When you do ask for more time, you don't have to directly say "you're my second choice and I'd like to see about another offer." Just say something like "I'd like to ask for additional time to make the best decision for myself and my family. Can I let you know by XX date?" And then see what they say. You can also sometimes stall by negotiating on benefits or salary or whatever. Throwing a question back to them might buy you some time as well.

[kgb18]

Lena, that story takes the cake! I would never think to do something like that. That is definitely unethical.

I don't think that taking a job and then quitting for another one quickly is necessarily unethical, but it's just something that I personally wouldn't feel comfortable doing. When I was applying for jobs and deciding about whether or not to go back to my old job (which I ultimately did), I told DH I needed to be sure that whatever I did I was willing to be in it for the long haul, or I wasn't going to take it. But that's just how I personally felt. Your situation is tricky.

[qofcc]

Are you currently out of work, or are you just trying to find a better job?

Are there other positions with the state agency you'd want to apply for in the future and would you regret it if you burn your bridges?

[share88]

Mar 7, 2011 19:10:45 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

On a side note, here is a story about the kind of things people do. My mgr hired a person once, he worked for a week and then disappeared. My mgr tried calling him at home, he was geniunely concerned that something bad happened to his guy. Turns out he never quit his previous job, when he got an offer from us, he accepted it and tried it out for a week to see if he liked it. He took a week vacation at his old job. I guess he didn't like it bc we never saw him again.

Lena

Ethical or not, I think this is pretty smart. I would have at least quit the new job though so they would know. But I am hardly one to talk since I have worked for the same company my whole career.

[dragonfly7]

restless: I'm not absolutely certain I will have an offer from either, although with the amount of time the director where I volunteer is spending speaking to the director of Job B, I would certainly hope so! Job B can't make an offer until Monday because personnel is doing reference checks this week and then making recommendations to a committee, who have to vote to make the offer first. I applied only a week ago, so they haven't had time to get the internal beaureaucratic stuff out of the way yet. I applied to Job A in eary Jan. and was just called for the interview a week ago, so they've apparently already gone through the beauracracy. (FYI, there is also a Job C that told me not to expect to hear from them until next week because they had NEW internal beaureaucratic stuff to deal with first. What a mess.)

No, I am not currently employed. I posted this because, even though it is at will employment, the idea of accepting Job A and then quickly leaving makes me uncomfortable.

For now, assuming I hear from them later today, I'll take your suggestion to ask Job A for more time and try to find out something from Job B.

[973beachbum]

Mar 7, 2011 21:08:29 GMT -5 kgb18 said:

Lena, that story takes the cake! I would never think to do something like that. That is definitely unethical.

I don't think that taking a job and then quitting for another one quickly is necessarily unethical, but it's just something that I personally wouldn't feel comfortable doing. When I was applying for jobs and deciding about whether or not to go back to my old job (which I ultimately did), I told DH I needed to be sure that whatever I did I was willing to be in it for the long haul, or I wasn't going to take it. But that's just how I personally felt. Your situation is tricky.

I used to think that quiting right after getting a job was unethical. That was before I was at a big company that hired a bunch of people and within 2 weeks closed the entire division.

Everyone of those new hires quit another job to take that one. And you don't just decide to close an entire division of thousands of employees in a couple of weeks. They knew months in advance of hiring those people. The higher ups just didn't want to tip their hand to the other employees so they let everything continue with business as usual.

Now I do exactly what they did. I make sure I do what is best for me and my families bottom line.and let them worry about themselves.

[michelyn8]

The pay, benefits, and cost of commuting are similar enough that the financials really don't matter.

Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=finance&action=display&thread=4433#ixzz1G0pdVUCb

One other thing you may want to keep in mind is that with non-profits, any future raises are going to be determined by the board based on projected donations or whatever it is they use. You can go 5 years and never see an increase with some of them. This happens in good and bad economies.

Now I know that right now state/local governments are in pretty much the same boat, but many (at least in my area) are trying to work in some kind of increase for current employees even if its just 1% or 2%.

[Clifford]

Mar 8, 2011 7:38:16 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

I used to think that quiting right after getting a job was unethical. That was before I was at a big company that hired a bunch of people and within 2 weeks closed the entire division.

Everyone of those new hires quit another job to take that one. And you don't just decide to close an entire division of thousands of employees in a couple of weeks. They knew months in advance of hiring those people. The higher ups just didn't want to tip their hand to the other employees so they let everything continue with business as usual.

The WARN Act was put in place to prevent this, but I think the new hires were allowed to be excluded from the notification process. Strong argument for knowing someone inside the company you plan to work for.
www.lawmemo.com/articles/warn.htm

[Clever Username]

How about this ground breaking strategy: the truth.
"I'm evaluating offers, can I respond by xx/xx/xx?"
If they say 'yes' it's easy.
If they say 'no' you accept their job, then recant if you like the other job better. No frett, they knew this was possible.

My wife works in recruiting and she's had far worse renigs than this.

[jeffreymo]

My wife has hired a couple of people who have done such a thing. I really don't think it's unethical. It is very frustrating for the hiring manager, especially if there has been time and money spent interviewing you and training you etc....