Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 26, 2015 21:44:59 GMT -5
Phoenix84: my experience with #3 is to use it only when you really have to, and then, IF APPROPRIATE within your office culture, couch the request for confirmation with self-depreciating humor and an apologetic grin: "Okay, I am having a senior moment/brain fart/whatever, do you have a few minutes to remind me how we calculate safe nuclear levels in newborn infants? I've done it myself but that annoying little man who lives inside my head is telling me that it doesn't look right." (slight, quiet, chuckle) Then follow it with a huge, relieved "thank you" and get back to work. Another approach is to play up your "new guy" card: "It's been a few years/2 jobs ago since I had to calculate safe nuclear levels in newborn infants -- do you mind helping me refresh my memory?" We all need to be competent at our jobs, but competency is not only knowing how to do the job, but to know when to ask for help. Forging on in a task when one has real doubts about the path is definitely the last option -- you'll either screw up big time or, at a minimum, have to re-do work IF the doubts are/were accurate. Yeah, it's tough to find a balance sometimes. In my field, getting it right is extremely important, you don't shoot from the hip.
I have no problem telling someone who asks me a question I don't know the answer to "I don't know off hand, I'll look into it and get back to you."
Usually I'll look it up if I can, a lot of stuff is out there. Some things aren't written down though, and as a new guy, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask some questions.
When I do ask a question though, I just don't throw up my hands and say "I don't know." I think it looks better if you have a proposed solution to your own question/problem, and ask "is this right." With the former, you look like you don't have a clue, with the latter, you look like you have a clue at least.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Feb 27, 2015 11:57:34 GMT -5
@hickle - It sounds to me like you very much believe that humility is an inward trait, because if it were an outward trait, you couldn't fake it. You would either act humble or you wouldn't. In your case, you believe that there is a difference between acting humble and feeling humble, and that if you act humble while not feeling it, you are "faking" it. I disagree (and that's fine, we can totally agree to disagree on this). Again, I can't read your mind. I have no idea if you feel humble or not. I only care about the actions I see you take. And I also take that into consideration in my own actions. I make sure to mix a proper sense of humility into how I act. However, I have also learned (and it has been a long and hard learning process) how to simply take a compliment, how to just say "thank you" instead of "it was nothing" or "oh, you know, other people really did all the work" or even using self deprecating humor. Sometimes, the best answer really is just to say "thank you".
I am also not afraid of telling people, this is what I do, and yes, I am very good at it.
So maybe I fake humility. But as long as I ACT appropriately, with humility when appropriate, it doesn't really matter.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Feb 27, 2015 13:30:56 GMT -5
Phoenix84: my experience with #3 is to use it only when you really have to, and then, IF APPROPRIATE within your office culture, couch the request for confirmation with self-depreciating humor and an apologetic grin: "Okay, I am having a senior moment/brain fart/whatever, do you have a few minutes to remind me how we calculate safe nuclear levels in newborn infants? I've done it myself but that annoying little man who lives inside my head is telling me that it doesn't look right." (slight, quiet, chuckle) Then follow it with a huge, relieved "thank you" and get back to work. Another approach is to play up your "new guy" card: "It's been a few years/2 jobs ago since I had to calculate safe nuclear levels in newborn infants -- do you mind helping me refresh my memory?" We all need to be competent at our jobs, but competency is not only knowing how to do the job, but to know when to ask for help. Forging on in a task when one has real doubts about the path is definitely the last option -- you'll either screw up big time or, at a minimum, have to re-do work IF the doubts are/were accurate. Yeah, it's tough to find a balance sometimes. In my field, getting it right is extremely important, you don't shoot from the hip.
I have no problem telling someone who asks me a question I don't know the answer to "I don't know off hand, I'll look into it and get back to you."
Usually I'll look it up if I can, a lot of stuff is out there. Some things aren't written down though, and as a new guy, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask some questions.
When I do ask a question though, I just don't throw up my hands and say "I don't know." I think it looks better if you have a proposed solution to your own question/problem, and ask "is this right." With the former, you look like you don't have a clue, with the latter, you look like you have a clue at least.
See I don't think asking questions is a bad thing. I've worked collaboratively my entire career. I run ideas past my boss. He bounces ideas off me. Sometimes another set of eyes to a problem is just what you need. I am going to be learning my rear off in my new job. New company, new focus, new area, new size of company. ..I'm going to have questions. They expect that I'm going to have questions. I amggoing to be learning on the fly and they know it and they hired me anyway.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 11, 2024 19:19:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 16:26:37 GMT -5
So maybe I fake humility. But as long as I ACT appropriately, with humility when appropriate, it doesn't really matter.So do you believe that if you were alone on an island, humility could not exist?
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Feb 27, 2015 17:13:21 GMT -5
@hickle - If I am alone on an island, everything I do, every accomplishment I make (and conversely, every mistake I make) is the result of my actions, and mine alone. Could there be luck involved, absolutely, but everything is still a result of my actions. For me, in that case, while alone on the island, humility would be the result of a delusion. I could certainly be humble about it if/when I was rescued, but that's not while on the island.
Now, perhaps one thing you don't know about me - I'm an atheist, and that may make all the difference.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 28, 2015 11:12:36 GMT -5
Back when I worked for the Air Force, asking questions was a huge source of contention and one of the reasons they tried to fire me.
To them, I was supposed to be a professional and already know all (or at least most) of the answers.
That experience has colored my perceptions going forward.
While I will still ask questions, I am more careful in when and how I do it now. You don't want to be perceived as not being able to work independently.
|
|
finnime
Junior Associate
Be kind. Everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 7:14:35 GMT -5
Posts: 8,011
|
Post by finnime on Mar 1, 2015 11:14:55 GMT -5
Back when I worked for the Air Force, asking questions was a huge source of contention and one of the reasons they tried to fire me.
To them, I was supposed to be a professional and already know all (or at least most) of the answers.
That experience has colored my perceptions going forward.
While I will still ask questions, I am more careful in when and how I do it now. You don't want to be perceived as not being able to work independently. So much of the answer lies in culture: the work place culture. Phoenix84 was in a culture that demanded a certain style. As a woman, I must say that the answer to this also varies depending on gender. Self confidence can be seen as brassy and aggressive for women, but strong for men, in a work setting. I agree with bobosensei and shanendoah that genuine humility is not the alternative to self confidence, but is (best case) a component of it. Nonetheless, I think women's norms are different in any culture.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 2, 2015 21:21:52 GMT -5
Back when I worked for the Air Force, asking questions was a huge source of contention and one of the reasons they tried to fire me.
To them, I was supposed to be a professional and already know all (or at least most) of the answers.
That experience has colored my perceptions going forward.
While I will still ask questions, I am more careful in when and how I do it now. You don't want to be perceived as not being able to work independently. So much of the answer lies in culture: the work place culture. Phoenix84 was in a culture that demanded a certain style. As a woman, I must say that the answer to this also varies depending on gender. Self confidence can be seen as brassy and aggressive for women, but strong for men, in a work setting. I agree with bobosensei and shanendoah that genuine humility is not the alternative to self confidence, but is (best case) a component of it. Nonetheless, I think women's norms are different in any culture. Interesting point.
Would things have been different, would my questioning and "lack of confidence" have been more acceptible if I were a woman? Honestly, in that particuar case, i think it probably would have made a difference.
Often the focus is on how women who project confidence and authority are "bitchy" but the opposite can sometimes be true for men. Men who don't project confidence and ask questions can (in certain workplace cultures at least) be looked upon less favorably than a female in a similar situation.
That doesn't seem to get as much attention when discussing gender issues.
I think women, especially young women, would find it easier to find others to help them out if they needed it.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Mar 3, 2015 6:42:44 GMT -5
@hickle - It sounds to me like you very much believe that humility is an inward trait, because if it were an outward trait, you couldn't fake it. You would either act humble or you wouldn't. In your case, you believe that there is a difference between acting humble and feeling humble, and that if you act humble while not feeling it, you are "faking" it. I disagree (and that's fine, we can totally agree to disagree on this). Again, I can't read your mind. I have no idea if you feel humble or not. I only care about the actions I see you take. And I also take that into consideration in my own actions. I make sure to mix a proper sense of humility into how I act. However, I have also learned (and it has been a long and hard learning process) how to simply take a compliment, how to just say "thank you" instead of "it was nothing" or "oh, you know, other people really did all the work" or even using self deprecating humor. Sometimes, the best answer really is just to say "thank you".
I am also not afraid of telling people, this is what I do, and yes, I am very good at it.
So maybe I fake humility. But as long as I ACT appropriately, with humility when appropriate, it doesn't really matter. If you have to tell people you are "good" at something, then what is the point? If you are truly good at something, you don't have to tell people, it is evident. People who go about talking about how "good" they are rarely are as good as they seem to believe.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Mar 3, 2015 16:49:20 GMT -5
Shooby - I did spend 9 months unemployed, lots of interviewing. Yes, you do have to tell people you are good at things.
|
|
mroped
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 17:36:56 GMT -5
Posts: 3,453
|
Post by mroped on Mar 3, 2015 19:37:36 GMT -5
To me being confident is related to what I'm doing. When it comes to my job-my specialty- I am confident. If there is a problem, I will find the solution. If I cannot find a solution then I'll let you know of that. I am confident about who I am and what I can do but I understand and know my limits.
Humility is for me a feeling. Is just odd how it hits me. It can be caused by some old building- not necessarily a historic one but something with unique details. It could be caused by nature- sea, mountain, river, storm, forest
It could be caused by a person and that is the weirdest part: it doesn't affect me if you are rich or poor, man or woman, very intelligent/smart or literally mentally retarded. It could be a litle gesture such as a child hugging his siblings or friends or an old grumpy stubborn man that wants to be left alone. No mater what, I always feel humble around people in fatigues or those that I know they served.
and it is just a feeling. I don't even know how one would show humility. I will bow my head in front of one just as a sign of respect but not because I want to show humility.
|
|