POTUS calls for WAR against ISIS {ISIL} but with conditions

[deziloooooo]

Calls for War but promises not to get into large land war as we have been in middle east before..
Actually with the state of our military now..down sided..I doubt we would be able to do such a thing with the present state of our forces today...

To think one can win a war with out ground forces..even here where you are not fighting a nation state..just by air power and possible some special operation events...unless he is thinking of heavy commitment of arming and training friendly folks..Iraq, working closely with Iran and their fighters..Syrian fighters who are against ISIS..Sunni tribes who are against ISIL and Kurds...

I am wondering why he has to ask for such a call anyway...why not just continue what we are doing now..possible with a agreement privately with his political opposition to OK new funding..

I wonder if ISIS is getting what they want..a open War with us..it seems that this is where they have been heading..

www.courant.com/nation-world/chi-war-authorization-isis-20150211-story.html
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Obama sends Congress request for military force against Islamic State

President Obama asks Congress to formally authorize war against Islamic State militants

Obama: Islamic State 'is going to lose'

Declaring the Islamic State is on the defensive and "going to lose," President Barack Obama asked Congress on Wednesday to formally authorize military force against the militants. But he vowed not to repeat the large and costly ground wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Obama said a large deployment of U.S. troops won't be necessary to fight the Islamic State, and he argued that the three-page proposal he sent to lawmakers would give him and his successor the needed flexibility to wage a battle likely to take "some time."

"I'm convinced that the United States should not get dragged back into another prolonged ground war in the Middle East," the president said, flanked by his vice president and secretaries of State and Defense at the White House. "I do not believe America's interests are served by endless war or by remaining on a perpetual war footing."
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To read complete article click on link above.....

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 11, 2015 19:12:34 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Calls for War but promises not to get into large land war as we have been in middle east before.

Oh, he promises that, does he?



He's apparently not even going to bother with limiting the war to specific nations. He'll melt his Nobel Prize down into bullets and fire them anywhere on Earth terrorists may hide.

Well... you guys elected the man. Twice. I know Demin doesn't like me saying this, but: good luck with funding your new war.

[Value Buy]

Yep.

Just like he lied about his opinion on same sex marriage.

Now we know he was for it even when he publicly was against it.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 11, 2015 23:31:45 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Yep.

Just like he lied about his opinion on same sex marriage.

Now we know he was for it even when he publicly was against it.

This thread is not about Obama and gay marriage, VB.

Why don't you start a thread about Obama and gay marrisge. It would be fascinating to read why that news bothers you so.

[Value Buy]

Tennesseer, read the President's last line in Dezi's opening thread premise.

He is lying again. This is what bothers me.

Gay marriage does not bother me.

 I do not believe in it, but it is the law of the land....... It is the lie he told America to garner votes and get elected.........

We are seeing a trend here.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 11, 2015 23:53:08 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Tennesseer, read the President's last line in Dezi's opening thread premise.

He is lying again. This is what bothers me.

Gay marriage does not bother me.

 I do not believe in it, but it is the law of the land....... It is the lie he told America to garner votes and get elected.........

We are seeing a trend here.

I really wish you would start a thread about it. I would be very interested on your take on how he garnered votes and got elected on this one issue.

That. Or I can start a thread about it by copying and pasting your comments from this thread there. Let me know what you want to do.

[EVT1]

We should really elect another Bush- because if we know one thing war is the last thing on their minds

Virgil is right on this one.  Perpetual war is the current goal apparently- and all of this bullshit started with Iraq and our involvement.  We created isil or isis or what the3 fuck ever.   Of course none of that matters now......

Not a Republican in the world is going to admit fault for this nightmare.  But their masters will be happy to shove them into another war.  So why not- we can afford it

[deziloooooo]

Feb 11, 2015 23:31:45 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Yep.

Just like he lied about his opinion on same sex marriage.

Now we know he was for it even when he publicly was against it.

Oh come on already Value, lets get real.....not saying this call for war is correct or not..

{seems all the beginnings of these things seem the correct thing to do , till all the facts come out or more importantly how they play ou}..

Just by winning a war militarily doesn't mean you actually have won..see second Iraq adventure..Hussein is dead and then we find out the Sunni and Shia REALLY don't like each other and we are caught in the middle and because of p poor leadership..doing away with all Iraqui military and police forces..well..
Nam, we have the Tonkin Gulf make believe attacks and soon over 500 thousand USA troops over there..}

Your claiming a lie when it's things come up which means things have changed...Is ISIL a threat to us or not...? I believe it is...believe he, Obama, and most members of Congress , both sides and more and more US citizens believe so too..

I guess { possible what you may want to see} we can just let them do their thing over there and see how it works out..see if it comes over here..though it seems we already have them over here..by individuals doing it to us here on the mainland..Boston marathon bombing , the Major awaiting trial for killing how many military on base, the shoe bomber and on and on...

If your expecting a large military invasion here forget it...not going to happen in this new type war..We are at War already and it will be small individual attacks , only probably getting more dangerous and deadly with time... If things change you still expect him to just stay what he said six years ago...A lie?

The mans primary responsibility..POTUS..protect the USA...and that is what he is trying to do..and your only response..call him a lier..? Unbelievable you are.

 Are you so against the man that no matter what happens you are against anything he proposes ..or does? Seems so to me so how can we really take anything you say or suggest seriously..

I am not sure on this last call but what do I really know and I would feel better if all parties, GOP, Democrats and the POTUS were seen as working TOGETHER in coming up with a plan..under the main direction of the President..Foreign policy, that IS his thing and responsibility...but calling the man a Lier...?   NO way Jose...

[Virgil Showlion]

The mans primary responsibility..POTUS..protect the USA...and that is what he is trying to do..and your only response..call him a lier..? Unbelievable you are.

He is a liar.

He was elected on promises that he was going to shut down US military operations in the Middle East. He lied about a commitment to diplomacy, then he lied about not extending the US' military campaigns into Egypt and Libya, then he lied about no boots on the ground in Syria, then he lied about getting involved with ISIS in Iraq, then he lied about not putting boots on the ground in Iraq, then he lied about not expanding the war to neighbouring nations, and anybody with two brain cells to rub together knows he's lying about the war on ISIS not expanding into a costly ground war.

When it comes to US foreign policy in the Middle East, there's pretty much nothing the man has said that didn't turn out to be a lie.

If you think he's wisely doing it all in the US's best interests, so be it. I can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's a bad idea. I do know that Pres. Obama is a liar, and I hope what he accomplishes over there is worth it.

[deziloooooo]

Feb 12, 2015 1:10:40 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

The mans primary responsibility..POTUS..protect the USA...and that is what he is trying to do..and your only response..call him a lier..? Unbelievable you are.

He is a liar.

He was elected on promises that he was going to shut down US military operations in the Middle East. He lied about a commitment to diplomacy, then he lied about not extending the US' military campaigns into Egypt and Libya, then he lied about no boots on the ground in Syria, then he lied about getting involved with ISIS in Iraq, then he lied about not putting boots on the ground in Iraq, then he lied about not expanding the war to neighbouring nations, and anybody with two brain cells to rub together knows he's lying about the war on ISIS not expanding into a costly ground war.

When it comes to US foreign policy in the Middle East, there's pretty much nothing the man has said that didn't turn out to be a lie.

If you think he's wisely doing it all in the US's best interests, so be it. I can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's a bad idea. I do know that Pres. Obama is a liar, and I hope what he accomplishes over there is worth it.

The problem when your a politician and make promises while running for office , things will come up if you win , that makes it impossible to keep  the promise..

Roosevelt promised to keep us out of war before he was elected, Japan attacked, Germany declared war....so...

I am not going to go back and try an check all your claims to see if they are factual...your calling him out on Iraq..he did pull us out...was overridden by Malaqui decision on keeping any troops there and it was hoped that we would still have a presence there..and if you think it's a lie because we are sending trainers back now and consider them boots on the ground..your wrong...I could argue your other claims but your mind is set one way so why bother...

Fact is , we are the only super Power in the world by far, even with our reduced military..Eleven super carrier task forces alone against what as just one example...F-22, F-35 in quantity against what..another example.

We have obligations..and no , not the worlds super cop but there are obligations.....and other nations are active in defending them selves and others..but we will always be looked on to help...and at times it will be necessary to help, even if at the moment it may not be us directly under attack..It comes with the territory and we do get benefits by being #1...

When a potential POTUS makes promises during campaigning there should be a caveat to them..something along the lines and thoughts of , something like..

" and I promise..{yadda, yadda } as long as things stay the same as they are now and no other problems or threats arise {yadda, yadda} " 

The problem with that is I don't think the political flacks who advice those folks running would buy into that..

[Tennesseer]

The biggest 21st century lie from a U.S. president or vice president to date:

“Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.” 

Vice President Speaks at VFW 103rd National Convention


Look where that lie got us.

[Value Buy]

Remember when the argument was ISIS wanted to drag us into a ground war and we would not fall for it?

They just did

[Value Buy]

Feb 12, 2015 0:03:51 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 11, 2015 23:53:08 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Tennesseer, read the President's last line in Dezi's opening thread premise.

He is lying again. This is what bothers me.

Gay marriage does not bother me.

 I do not believe in it, but it is the law of the land....... It is the lie he told America to garner votes and get elected.........

We are seeing a trend here.

I really wish you would start a thread about it. I would be very interested on your take on how he garnered votes and got elected on this one issue.

That. Or I can start a thread about it by copying and pasting your comments from this thread there. Let me know what you want to do.

Knock your socks off and start a thread.

I do not care.

[OldCoyote]

Just amazes me that we hold our news reporters to a higher standard than we hold the leader of our country,  Many of you defend it.

[deziloooooo]

Feb 12, 2015 7:38:58 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I have said since ISIL first exploded across Iraq that they need to be stopped*. (And quarreled with some of my usual political "allies" on here about it)  I still feel that way.  They are a force of unmitigated evil, and their success will mean complete chaos, anarchy and possibly denial of crucial oil in a part of the world where "we" (the developed world) can't afford it.  Like it or not, moral or not, they must be stopped.

Yes, they are able to exploit the power vacumn left by a hollow Iraq, just as Iran is doing.  And while that is "Bush's fault", we are now beyond Bush.  However this whole sorry mess should be a lesson to us in the future about mucking about in Foreign Entanglements in the first place.  (one our founding fathers warned us about for cripes sake!)  Anyway, here we are, knee deep in the big muddy.  Again.

I am less than confident in the President's overall strategy.  On the other hand, I am not sure that there is an ideal strategy.  I agree with airstrikes, and pounding the hell out of those ba$tards.  I think local powers, from the Peshmerga to the Saudi's, should be leading any other efforts.  Of course here is where it gets even messier.  Half of them all hate each other as well.  I do know I don't like this mention of ground forces.  I understand why he is asking for it, but the possible result is very concerning. 

And then there is Iran.   How does one deal with them?  If they get the bomb, Saudi will then have one almost immediately as well.  Of course Israel (a "one bomb country" in the words of some jaded Iranian leaders) already has them.  Soon one of the most unstable regions on the planet will be bristling with nuclear arms.  I can understand why the Saudis and Israelis are livid with Obama for even talking treaty with the Iranians, as this is an existential threat for them. 

What a mess.  Glad I'm not in the big chair.

*I don't think ISIL needs to be stopped because they are lopping off people's heads.  They are doing this for effect, and beyond the emotional angst that this causes it is really non-consequential.  My opinion is that they need to be stopped because of the threat of what a group like this can do if they gain a physical territory- a state- with power in the middle of this powder keg.  That is really scary.

Very good , outstanding post...  well reasoned and I am 100% with you...I wouldn't want to be in that big chair either