What's holding back the middle class?

[Tiny]

Here's an interesting article (at least to me!):

finance.yahoo.com/news/this-is-why-the-middle-class-feels-trapped-152616810.html

This article by Rick Newman (ok it's also pluggin his book)  touched on something I was recently using in a debate with my brother - that people just have too much stuff - and they spend alot of money maintaining it (or storing it) or forgeting they have it and buying more stuff.     We were debating why people can't 'save' for a down payment.... even allowing for $300 a month in cell/internet/cable expenses....

I consider myself pretty thrifty, but when I moved a year and a half ago, I was astounded by the amount of useless junk stashed in every possible corner of my home: barely worn clothing, toys my kids had used once and forgotten, orphaned sports equipment, and of the course, the obligatory never-cashed gift cards.

There’s no useful data on this, but American consumers must waste an incredible amount of money, if you define “waste” as spending that does little or nothing to improve your quality of life. Over the course of the last three generations, luxuries have become necessities, while it takes more and more to make us feel successful. This “American Dream Inflation” is now as much of a problem as real economic stagnation, I argue in my latest book, Liberty for All: A Manifesto for Reclaiming Financial and Political Freedom.

Some things are well worth the money we spend on them, of course—a comfortable home, reliable transportation, kids’ education, entertainment that helps you relax. But Americans, including myself, are so addicted to pointless spending that a brutal recession and a genuine threat to our living standards have barely made a dent in the amount of money that flies out of our wallets for no good reason.

What do you all think?   Is the never ending purchasing of non-electronic 'junk' holding people back financially?   Is it the fear of "Feeling of Mission Out" that is adding to the Middle Classes angst when they are confronted by a zillion things they could purchase??

[HoneyBBQ]

Dear God, yes. It's over-consumism. Is that a word?

Why the F do I have to have a 5 bedroom house? I have way way way too much sh*t. So much luxury, so much cheap food, so much cheap entertainment. (compared to other countries, etc).



www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2012/01/america-food-spending-less

[giramomma]

I think technology is a large problem.

Between cable, internet, cell phone bills, and the costs to replace smart phones, computers, tvs, gaming systems (I don't think people even just have one anymore), tablets, and whatever iPods are considered....well, that's a lot of money.

I also think the acceptance of debt: student debt, car loans, and a mortgage make it much harder for people to get ahead. If you have 35% of your income going to debt, and another 15% going to retirement, well, there's much less to "save."

Life is more expensive. #1 and I have the same mouth. My 8 years of treatment ran my parents 3K (insurance helped for half). #1 has 3 years of treatment, and it's running us almost 9K. Insurance paid 1.5K of that. If you plug in the $$ amounts to an inflation calculator, #1's braces should be running us 6.6K, not almost 9.

When I was growing up, we used to save money by freezing our own produce over the summer. Now actually costs me more money to go pick my strawberries at a strawberry farm and freeze them vs. buying frozen strawberries in the winter.

[HoneyBBQ]

Feb 2, 2015 16:10:52 GMT -5 giramomma said:

When I was growing up, we used to save money by freezing our own produce over the summer. Now actually costs me more money to go pick my strawberries at a strawberry farm and freeze them vs. buying frozen strawberries in the winter.

Isn't that incredible? 

[giramomma]

Feb 2, 2015 16:21:00 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Feb 2, 2015 16:10:52 GMT -5 giramomma said:

When I was growing up, we used to save money by freezing our own produce over the summer. Now actually costs me more money to go pick my strawberries at a strawberry farm and freeze them vs. buying frozen strawberries in the winter.

Isn't that incredible? 

Yes. I wonder how that happened. Even if I grew strawberries myself, instead of picking them, I'd still have to buy the plants, etc. And you know, businesses aren't paying legit migrant workers $10/hour to pick berries.

Shoot, even when DH and I were married, I could make a pot of soup for like $3 and that would give me lunch for a week. I've been tracking my soup ingredients, and I can't get that low anymore.

[Deleted]

Yes.  I think about this almost every day as I try to declutter. 

[busymom]

I think the "requirements" of living in society are budget-killers. We managed without internet service at our house, until DD was in junior high. Then, after a not-so-great service, we found a reliable internet service, which, combined with our landline is running us about $1,100 per year. (Just so the kids can keep up with homework. My talking with you all is the bonus.)

Then, ALL of our different insurances have grown by leaps & bounds.  I believe when DH & I moved into our first house, we were paying $225 a year for homeowner's insurance.  Now we have to price shop to get somewhere between $1,100 & $1,300 each year.  And, we won't even get into how high health insurance has gotten.

Do we have too much junk?  Absolutely!  But, even as we downsize our possessions, and go without extras like cable t.v. & smartphones, it still costs a lot to live day-to-day.

I don't sew like my Mom did, because by the time you pay for fabric & notions, it's cheaper just to purchase clothing.  And I DO garden, but agree that unless you've got experience, you may or may not come out ahead with the cost of growing fruits & vegetables.  (Not to mention you need good growing weather.)

[midwestlily]

People also spend a lot more money on services.  When I was young (let's say 30+ years ago), women only got manicures for special occasions like proms or weddings.  Leg waxing was something I read about in Judith Krantz novels, I certainly didn't know anyone who got that done.  And why is it that we're now all expected to get our teeth bleached, as if we were newscasters or something?

I confess, I started getting monthly pedicures a year ago, and I enjoy them.  But I think it's easy to get caught up in the idea that we "need" a lot of services.

[gooddecisions]

I don't know. I feel pretty good about my middle class life and don't feel held back at all. But, I don't have hoarding tendencies nor shopping addiction.

[gooddecisions]

The onion nails it every time:

Man Brings Lunch From Home To Cut Down On Small Joys
"Speaking with reporters while opening Ziploc baggies of pretzel twists and baby carrots, local man Stan Keppler said Monday that he has started bringing in lunch from home to cut down on his small joys. “Making your own lunch each day is a great way to reduce your simple pleasures throughout the week—it’s already made a huge difference for me,” the 38-year-old insurance underwriter said as he unwrapped a plain turkey sandwich from aluminum foil that he had woken up 15 minutes early this morning to prepare. “I used to go out for lunch with coworkers and actually enjoy myself every day, but now I just sit at my desk and eat something I packed from home. It’s quick, easy, and has cut my weekly sense of gratification by at least half.” Keppler went on to say that he is considering canceling his cable service as well, which would save him 90 hours of genuine relaxation time a month."

[Tiny]

Feb 2, 2015 16:10:52 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I think technology is a large problem.

Between cable, internet, cell phone bills, and the costs to replace smart phones, computers, tvs, gaming systems (I don't think people even just have one anymore), tablets, and whatever iPods are considered....well, that's a lot of money.

I also think the acceptance of debt: student debt, car loans, and a mortgage make it much harder for people to get ahead. If you have 35% of your income going to debt, and another 15% going to retirement, well, there's much less to "save."

I agree that there are more 'fixed' expenses - ie cell/internet/cable today than there were in the past.   And I do get that new grads may have more debt than in previous generations.    BUT, I don't think that that is what is really putting the squeeze on the "middle class"

The article implies that it's the expectation of what kinds of things the middle class should be able to afford.  Alot of the 'middle class stuff' is actually upper middle class or truely luxury items. The 5 bedroom house with a 3 car garage for instance.

I agree with the idea that it's the myriad of 'stuff' that's sucking up alot of income for some households.  So, the constant stream of clothes that might get worn once or twice (yeah, I know kids out grow stuff quick but still), the constant stream of 'amusements' that are forgotten about in amonth (the electric donut maker, the special chip and dip bowl that gets used once, the new set of dishes because it's 'spring', the espresso maker or fancy coffee maker - when you dont' really drink espresso or coffee every day, the geegaws and whatnots that are suppose to make your life better but wind up in a closet or the garage within a week or two.)  

I'm kinda amazed at the bedroom sized closets in some of my friend's houses.    I can only assume that they do laundry once or twice a year... since they don't need to wear the same stuff twice. 

It's not the little stuff - the latte or the fast food lunch - it's the $50 and $100 and $200 a week "amusement" or "impulse purchase" that can be the problem.

How much stuff do you really need?   

[phil5185]

if we were all making more money than we were 15 years ago. But we’re not -- on the contrary, in fact. Median household income, also adjusted for inflation, has fallen from $56,916 in 2000 to $54,417 today, according to Sentier Research. That’s a 4.4% decline in spending power

While mathematically correct, that stat isn't nearly as dramatic as the government portrays it.  If a 30 yr-old couple w/2.3 kids was making $50k in 2002, then today a new 30-yr-old couple with 2.3 kids should be making $50k (corrected to 2002 dollars), there are few reasons for the number to be increasing.  Meanwhile, that first couple from 15 yrs ago is age 45, way more skills, and making about $130k in 2015.   So - that 4.4% loss is real, it just isn't nearly as important as people feel it to be, the actual fact is that corrected real household income is nearly flat and should be.

The big difference is on the spending side. 3 generations ago, a 1200 foot house and one car was the norm. Not so much KUWTJ. Before SS, medicare, unemployment checks, WIC, school lunches, IRS withholding, yada - people were careful to hold-back cash for their needs and careful to hold onto their jobs. As for storage - in the 1940s it didn't take a big closet to hang your winter dress, summer dress, and the sunday dress - a nail & 3 coat hangers. 
The advent of easy credit dramatically spiked spending in the 50's & 60's - 3 gens ago you were forced to wait until you had the money to buy stuff - no cc's, no car loans, no 30-yr mortgages - that may be the biggest factor of all.

[Tiny]

As for storage - in the 1940s it didn't take a big closet to hang your winter dress, summer dress, and the sunday dress - a nail & 3 coat hangers.

LOL!  We've come quite a ways from there - and i'm kinda thankful I have more than 3 outfits....    

But, then there's this:  A friend had her closet spaces  professionally reorganized.  She's now very happy that her 20 pairs of jeans and 50 pairs of shoes are orderly - in addition to her work clothes, summer vacation clothes, winter clothes, special occasion clothes, slumming around the house clothes, and all the other accessories.   I have no idea why she needs 20 pairs of jeans - she can't wear them to work.    The 50 pairs of shoes seems alittle over the top to me - but maybe she wears them to work I didn't ask.    She clothes shops every weekend.    She's either got the income or she's got outrageous CC debt.  she also complains about not being able to retire. (I still ponder the $2K probably more spent on the jeans....)  

[Blonde Granny]

My SIL told me one day when I called her that she was transferring her winter lingerie and summer lingerie in her drawers and closet. My thought? Summer lingerie vs winter? There's a difference

I saw a guy a day or two ago driving an old beat up pickup, that didn't prevent him from smoking his cigarette. I quit smoking in 1982 when a carton of cigarettes was $8. I smoked 2 1/2 packs a day. Today those same cartons are almost $70. Add some liquor and wine and suddenly you have an expensive habit.

I loved the post Phil made. Yes, 50 years ago a married woman with a child couldn't get a job, her job was to stay home and take care of her children and the house. We had 1 car, when I needed to buy groceries, my Mom would come stay with our little boy and I'd take her car to the store. I was in hog heaven when we finally bought me an old used car to drive.

Times have changed, some things better than others, but consumerism is what makes the world go around. KUWTJ is the norm. Activities organized for kids instead of sending them outside to play. Play dates? no such thing back when.

Good grief, I sound just like my Mother talking about those good old days.

[Deleted]

Feb 2, 2015 16:50:29 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

 you were forced to wait until you had the money to buy stuff - no cc's, no car loans, no 30-yr mortgages - that may be the biggest factor of all.

I think easy debt is a huge reason people don't build savings/wealth.

1. When people used to have to save for small purchases (no credit card), they would earn interest while waiting, thus actually lowering the price paid.  Today, they pay interest which makes the item cost more (really high when you get caught with a 15-20% card).
2. Studies regularly show that you overspend when using cc's.  It is easier to spend more money and it is perfect for "impulse" buys.  I think in the past when you went to the hardware store to buy a planned item, the sale item required work to purchase (you had to return home or go to the bank to get more money).  Today you just pull out the plastic.  This delay caused people to realize they just didn't need the item.  I have this happen all the time for items I forget to buy at the grocery store.  I don't feel like going back so I just due without.  Many things I see at the store are this way, after waiting several days the item is no longer wanted/needed.
3. Finally, easy debt costs everyone money by increasing demand and allowing prices to rise.  We have seen this in housing which is one of everyone's largest costs. 

[souldoubt]

I think the biggest thing holding back anyone is the decisions they make.  Most people I know struggling are their own worst enemy but they'll never admit that and they spend more time whining or talking about how it's someone else's fault while continuing on the same path.  After that I think as others said easy credit is the next biggest reason why most people are struggling to stay afloat or get ahead.  After the housing market crashed credit offers slowed big time but it's still way too easy to get a credit card or credit through some kind of store to buy stuff you want but don't really need.  

[alabamagal]

First, I am sitting in a hotel room eating leftovers rather than going out to eat. We are in process of moving so all my stuff (and DH) are still in GA.

Since we are getting ready to move O know exactly how much stuff we have Since kids are mostly moved out we are going from 4/3 to 3/2. The only thing I think we have in excess is kids stuff, toys and memorabilia that we still have. Since we are not paying for the move and life has been hectic, we have not done anything with it. Plan is that each comes to the new house we will go through it with them and decide what to keep. Then figure out how to get the rest to them when they have more permanent living arrangements

[NastyWoman]

"Times have changed, some things better than others, but consumerism is what makes the world go around. KUWTJ is the norm. Activities organized for kids instead of sending them outside to play. ..."

Hey, you get locked up for that now, or at the very least someone will look into taking your kids away from you since you are obviously a non-caring neglectful parent! 

[Lizard Queen]

Feb 2, 2015 16:50:29 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

if we were all making more money than we were 15 years ago. But we’re not -- on the contrary, in fact. Median household income, also adjusted for inflation, has fallen from $56,916 in 2000 to $54,417 today, according to Sentier Research. That’s a 4.4% decline in spending power

While mathematically correct, that stat isn't nearly as dramatic as the government portrays it.  If a 30 yr-old couple w/2.3 kids was making $50k in 2002, then today a new 30-yr-old couple with 2.3 kids should be making $50k (corrected to 2002 dollars), there are few reasons for the number to be increasing.  Meanwhile, that first couple from 15 yrs ago is age 45, way more skills, and making about $130k in 2015.   So - that 4.4% loss is real, it just isn't nearly as important as people feel it to be, the actual fact is that corrected real household income is nearly flat and should be.

The big difference is on the spending side. 3 generations ago, a 1200 foot house and one car was the norm. Not so much KUWTJ. Before SS, medicare, unemployment checks, WIC, school lunches, IRS withholding, yada - people were careful to hold-back cash for their needs and careful to hold onto their jobs. As for storage - in the 1940s it didn't take a big closet to hang your winter dress, summer dress, and the sunday dress - a nail & 3 coat hangers. 
The advent of easy credit dramatically spiked spending in the 50's & 60's - 3 gens ago you were forced to wait until you had the money to buy stuff - no cc's, no car loans, no 30-yr mortgages - that may be the biggest factor of all.

Except the newly minted 30 year olds probably have several times the student loan debt than the couple that attended college 15 years prior.

[busymom]

Feb 2, 2015 16:50:29 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

if we were all making more money than we were 15 years ago. But we’re not -- on the contrary, in fact. Median household income, also adjusted for inflation, has fallen from $56,916 in 2000 to $54,417 today, according to Sentier Research. That’s a 4.4% decline in spending power

While mathematically correct, that stat isn't nearly as dramatic as the government portrays it.  If a 30 yr-old couple w/2.3 kids was making $50k in 2002, then today a new 30-yr-old couple with 2.3 kids should be making $50k (corrected to 2002 dollars), there are few reasons for the number to be increasing.  Meanwhile, that first couple from 15 yrs ago is age 45, way more skills, and making about $130k in 2015.   So - that 4.4% loss is real, it just isn't nearly as important as people feel it to be, the actual fact is that corrected real household income is nearly flat and should be.

The big difference is on the spending side. 3 generations ago, a 1200 foot house and one car was the norm. Not so much KUWTJ. Before SS, medicare, unemployment checks, WIC, school lunches, IRS withholding, yada - people were careful to hold-back cash for their needs and careful to hold onto their jobs. As for storage - in the 1940s it didn't take a big closet to hang your winter dress, summer dress, and the sunday dress - a nail & 3 coat hangers. 
The advent of easy credit dramatically spiked spending in the 50's & 60's - 3 gens ago you were forced to wait until you had the money to buy stuff - no cc's, no car loans, no 30-yr mortgages - that may be the biggest factor of all.

  Although I'd like to believe that at MOST employers have been giving raises the last 10 years or so, that hasn't been true at all companies.  DH's company had a wage freeze for 5 YEARS, while our health insurance deduction from his paychecks steadily increased.  At the same time, the place I was working at stopped doing the company match on their retirement plan.  So both of us have lost ground.  While DH could have left his company & gone elsewhere, due to DS's disability, (plus you'll remember when you couldn't get insurance when you had a pre-existing condition), we both agreed he should stay with his employer.  However, once DS is done with school, all bets are off on whether DH will stay, or find something elsewhere.

[bobosensei]

Feb 2, 2015 16:39:20 GMT -5 busymom said:

I don't sew like my Mom did, because by the time you pay for fabric & notions, it's cheaper just to purchase clothing.

Yup, my mom even said this 25 years ago.  She learned to sew in school because the cost of clothes was expensive, but when things were made in Mexico and China you could buy them cheaper.  After I was about 8 or 9 the only thing she made us were formal dresses.

[resolution]

Feb 2, 2015 19:27:14 GMT -5 Blonde Granny said:

My SIL told me one day when I called her that she was transferring her winter lingerie and summer lingerie in her drawers and closet. My thought? Summer lingerie vs winter? There's a difference

As long as we leave the house colder in the winter, you can bet that I will wear fleece or flannel pajamas. It is definitely cheaper than heating the house to 78 so I can stay warm in a little silk outfit.

[giramomma]

We have also lost ground in our earning power. I pay more for my benefits than I did 4 years ago. The past two years I've gotten raises. 1%. 500. One does not exactly get ahead on $500/year.

It appears as if I will continue to lose earning power. Problem is, I don't think the grass is greener on the other side. So, it's like like trying to decide which decision is the least harmful, rather than which decision is the best.

We all have about 10 days of "school" clothing, a few dress outfits, and clothes the kids can roll around in the mud.  But, I think that's just a reflection of our priorities.  When my first was born, we could fit all of his clothes into one drawer. Blankets and sheets were in another one.

We also have a "bigger" house. But I just couldn't do three kids in a two bedroom AND run a business out of the bedroom my kids slept in. I'm sure folks in the 40's figured out how to do that. We couldn't. And, I have to say, I'm sure when DS is 15, he won't want to be sharing a room with his younger sisters.

[Deleted]

You still earn as much/more... It's just that health insurance costs a larger and larger percentage...

For a decade at least most 'raises' have gone to health insurance.

[giramomma]

Feb 2, 2015 17:00:19 GMT -5 Tiny said:

The 50 pairs of shoes seems alittle over the top to me - but maybe she wears them to work I didn't ask.    She clothes shops every weekend.    She's either got the income or she's got outrageous CC debt.  she also complains about not being able to retire. (I still ponder the $2K probably more spent on the jeans....)  

Maybe shopping is her entertainment? Maybe retirement isn't really a priority, and she deals with it by complaining about it. Maybe she just makes small talk that way?

I have a co-worker that complains about having no money.  Yet, she drops $5-10/day on starbucks drinks. Whatever. It's not my budget, not my life.  There's also more going on, but she's not comfortable telling me. So I think I hear the money part, because that's where her comfort level is.

SIL told me that she and BIL won't be able to afford a babysitter when they have kids. She's hoping her parents will agree to watching the baby when needed. She also told me his house (a nice sized 3 bedroom), is OK for one child, definitely NOT two as they get bigger, but they won't be able to afford to get a bigger house in a better neighborhood. It looks like the are considering ART. She also was willing to drop $100 in the couple of hours we hung out together.

I get stressed out/complain here (mostly only here) about money being tight because we no longer have a 30% savings rate. We've changed much of our behavior, but we have our hill to die with school. We have to sit tight one more year, and then DH is going to look at working full time if I my second job doesn't pick up.

I guess my point is MOST people tend to be a little inconsistent when they talk about money. It's also easier to complain than to live a life of gratitude. And people need their small talk.

[NoNamePerson]

The fact that we have an ongoing "decluttering" thread says a lot. But every generation has had "more" than the other. Times change, people change whether middle class or upper middle class or friggin uber rich.

I didn't have squat growing up - now I like my "squat". I just don't buy "squat" just to have it.  I use internet, phone, TV and live in my house that I can afford.

[giramomma]

Feb 3, 2015 7:38:35 GMT -5 oped said:

You still earn as much/more... It's just that health insurance costs a larger and larger percentage...

For a decade at least most 'raises' have gone to health insurance.

Except if you are furloughed. The two years I was furloughed, my base pay went down. We were also asked to give up part of our pay in our department. It was voluntary. I declined. But I do know that those that were making 125K+ at the time were taking salary reductions to get our department through "the great recession."

I had three months or so to prepare for paying double for my pension. It wasn't a cost saving measure. Because my state pissed away a 500million surplus, and we are now looking at a 200+million deficit.  It was a political move to ensure that state workers knew they were lower than dirt for sucking on the teat of government.

Two years ago, we had a balanced budget. Now there's a 2 billion deficit going into the next two years. I'm not sure how things are going to shake out this time. You know it's bad when lawmakers that staunchly advocate for little gov't intervention are now OK with expanding the medicaid program to get extra money from the federal government.

[CarolinaKat]

Feb 3, 2015 7:51:39 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

The fact that we have an ongoing "decluttering" thread says a lot. But every generation has had "more" than the other. Times change, people change whether middle class or upper middle class or friggin uber rich.

I didn't have squat growing up - now I like my "squat". I just don't buy "squat" just to have it.  I use internet, phone, TV and live in my house that I can afford.

[Phoenix84]

I hate shopping. That helps curb a lot of hoarding tendencies.

[motherto2]

An issue I am having and I know I'm not alone is having kids that have gone through college and have a degree, but having trouble finding a job.  My daughter is a personal trainer and surprisingly around here gyms are starting to require personal trainers to have a college degree in certain areas, and then the job is still only part time with absolutely no benefits. She's trying to find a job that is full time, and maybe some benefits.   My son just graduated from college and is having trouble finding a full time job (no stem degree).  He's been putting out resumes and now getting some interviews, so I'm hopeful.  But while all of this is going on, mom is having to take care of some of their expenses.  I'm glad that I can do it, but I spent a lot of money (and still paying school loans) to get them an education and piece of paper so that I wouldn't have to continue supporting them.  I'm retiring in 3 1/2 years, and it would be so nice to be able to put those hundreds of dollars towards some things that would be getting me in a better position for moving to another state.  I'm getting ready to get rid of satellite in October when my 2 year contract is up.  I've decided it's not worth paying over $100/mo just to have over 120 infomercials and about 6 channels that I actually watch.