China Mistakes

[cheapgenes]

China has really beaten our butts in manufacturing, but they have made some big mistakes. For instance lack of quality control that results in babies formula with no nutritional value or dogs dying from bad dog food.

Here's a PBS documentary that shows that China built the World's largest mall, and it is a complete failure. Any business major in America could have told them this was a bad location, and a bad idea. This was 2009. How far is China away from a major crash?


www.pbs.org/pov/utopia/

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

It depends on how fast they can give their people money and freedom. They have a lot of real estate to fill. They have a lot of oppressed and upset people. However they have a lot of spirit and ingenuity as a society. I have thought for a while, as well as other smart people I know, that China is walking a fine line. They can produce a soft landing. However that will leave china entirely different than they are today. Something the commies don't want. It's going to be interesting.

Great post. This goes along with what your saying.. They need American products to make it.

China to Buy U.S. Plane Maker:
www.marketwatch.com/story/chinese-plane-maker-to-buy-us-firm-2011-03-02

[vl]

China doesn't have very much usable real estate and a massive population. Comparatively- our San Fernando Valley area has about 9 million people in it. That same area in China has about 300 million in it. A reminder that the land is often mountainous, arid, brutal or rugged.
The primary failure of China was to begin at all to mimic America. Thousands of Chinese have died in horrendous auto accidents. Why it chose to use automobiles at all is the question. The logical ascent from bicycles would be Earth-friendly rail. Unlike the USA, China can tap directly into far more natural resources for alternatives. All of its housing could easily be energy-generating, especially in tougher environments.
China sends millions to America for education. Those kids are a testament to our own problem- all we do is PROGRAM in college and create wanna-bees not free or higher thinkers. With less cash to spend on what we need, the coming economy will be highly selective in what it buys. Chinese-made goods lack the stuff. Better made goods will demand higher prices but sell in fewer units. If you are crafty to craftsmen-oriented, the future is yours, if you administrate, prepare to pay through the nose. China will go back into hibernation by 2015 and take massive American investor dollars down when it does.

[verrip1]

I'm not sure exactly why we need to kick China's butt or China needs to kick our butt. I see no reason why the U. S., China and also India cannot work competitively but not combatively these days.

China's slow but inexorable move into capitalism is good for the world. History suggests that changes in China occur generally in a slow manner, not sudden shifts. With the transition to a more capitalist economy is the emergence of a business class and a middle class, with resulting improvements in quality of life. Once tasted, these improvements become ingrained and expected. That hated word 'populism', which was temporarily overcome in Tianamen Square, is likely IMO to resurge over time. We shall see.

There remains some underlying, deeply seated animus between our two countries, and both sides remain concerned about whether the other will take untoward steps to exhibit various levels of control upon them. So reconciliation will be a slow process of each testing the other. But as a goal, it is to the benefit of both countries to move toward reconciliation. As both sides see benefits achieved from working first in economic parallel, they can then consider more seriously working further in economic cooperation.

That would be good for us, for China and for the world.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

V that is exactly what is going to happen. We all owe each other money. BRIC needs everybody to rise. We the people just want freedom. It's a win, win. With everyone working together, making money, buying things, having fun, watching movies, ect, ect. Will there be any time for war? The US economy is what $14T USD the war costs 600 B a year. As a bank which one is worth more??

Nice post. K4V!

V_L, what I am talking about is the fact there are ghost cites around China that people can't afford to live in. Brand new cites with big huge buildings, empty. There is apparently enough RE in China right now, empty to house 200-300 million people.

Bottom line. Slow move to freedom and democracy=Soft landing. Continue to be paranoid and go as far as to make sure NO ONE is allowed in any major part of the cites on Sundays unless they are paid govt officials= Crash landing.

[jarhead1976]

China is spending more on domestic policing and internal security than the military budget. Civil militia, courts and jails, (95 billion). China's people liberation army budget. (91.5 billion.) . The more educated the populace the more the ruling party fears civil unrest. The resulting inflation caused by runaway growth , environmental degradation are eating away at the living standards of China's working poor. Co-operation we can only hope so. Just my two cents.

[verrip1]

Keep in mind that the Chinese people are getting lots of cellphones and internet access, albeit filtered. That suggests to me a much higher standard of living over, say, just 25 years ago. Not as an end in itself, but as a representation of modern conveniences in a country with a long history of abject poverty of the masses.

The nation of bicycles is changing to a nation with a lot of cars. Sure, there will be growing pains. There are always growing pains. But the availability of these things represents significant progress.

[vl]

V_L, what I am talking about is the fact there are ghost cites around China that people can't afford to live in. Brand new cites with big huge buildings, empty. There is apparently enough RE in China right now, empty to house 200-300 million people.

Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=4363#ixzz1FrJgZf00

Same mapping as Chicagoland (which has empty civilizations out in BFE now, I hear). The "competition" part, especially in education, is designed to inspire quick progression into some fantasy world where we communicate with each other by pressing a pin on our shirt, teleport wherever there's another teleporter, wave a strobe flashlight over a sick person and heal them, have a computer in our eyebrow and summon up ANYTHING out of a printer that creates it out of pixie dust.

Abysmal failure-- straight ahead. It's human nature to hunker down too far from the tether, rediscover grass roots after running too fast for too long and improve primitive ways and means by compressing a time span worth of advancements into a few useful steps ahead in evolution. What has to alarm us all is how "cultured" all this turbulence has been. Absolutely NOT a natural event.

[frankq]

"Same mapping as Chicagoland (which has empty civilizations out in BFE now, I hear). "

You hear wrong. I live here. There are no ghost cities. No NWO chapters either.

[domeasingold]

Frank
He must mean Naperville.
What side of town are you in?
I'm SWS.

[verrip1]

Mar 6, 2011 17:59:05 GMT -5 frankq said:

"Same mapping as Chicagoland (which has empty civilizations out in BFE now, I hear). "

You hear wrong. I live here. There are no ghost cities. No NWO chapters either.

Frank. The NWO meets in the same room just after the Elders Of Zion every Tuesday night. LOLOLOL!

[bimetalaupt]

Mar 6, 2011 20:05:08 GMT -5 verrip1 said:

Mar 6, 2011 17:59:05 GMT -5 frankq said:

"Same mapping as Chicagoland (which has empty civilizations out in BFE now, I hear). "

You hear wrong. I live here. There are no ghost cities. No NWO chapters either.

Frank. The NWO meets in the same room just after the Elders Of Zion every Tuesday night. LOLOLOL!

We are worried about the Chinese buying or building air craft carries .. they can not keep up with our WWII E-Class or Iowa class battleships.. Speed = 20 knots.. No where near the CVN Ford speed or power!!! Ford EST power is about 350,000 SHP and speed 38 Knots

Shi Lang - The Propulsion Problem

As initially designed, the Project 1143.5 Varyag was to have been equipped with steam turbine engines providing 200,000 shp. Although estimates vary, this was estimated to be sufficient to propel the 58,600-67,500 tons full load ship to a speed of 29-32 knots. This machinery is slightly larger than that of the predecessor Project 1143.4 Kiev, which also had 8 boilers and four turbines, with an aggregate of 180,000 - 200,000 shp. The Kiev had two engine rooms, each of which was about 20 meters long and 10 meters tall. The width of the engine room is unclear, but their mid-ship location is constrained by the 32.6-32.7 meters waterline beam to less than 25 meters.

As is well known, China is deficient in marine propulsion technology, and has not produced significant steam turbine or gas turbine marine propulsion plants. Only a few PLAN warships are equipped with such propulsion plants, which are standard in navies around the world, and the few Chinese installations involve plants of foreign manufacture. China's commercial and military surface vessels are uniformly outfitted with marine diesel engines, many of foreign design built under license.

The largest American warships with diesel propulsion are the US Navy's LSD-41 Whidbey Island class landing ship dock amphibious assault ships, which have four Colt Industries 16 Cylinder Diesels providing a total of 41,600 shp, which propel these 16,360 ton ships to a speed of 20 knots. In general, however, the use of diesels requires that several units be combined to drive a common shaft. This requirement results in severe space and arrangement problems. Among other disadvantages is the fact that periodic engine overhaul and progressive maintenance are required. These result in frequent down periods, which, because of the number of similar units, may not increase the amount of necessary in-port maintenance time, but do decrease the amount of time the ship has full power available while at sea.

Wärtsilä is a global leader in complete lifecycle power solutions for the marine and energy markets. Many Wärtsilä engines are licensed for production in China, and are representative of the types of marine diesel engines available from Chinese industry. Marine diesels provide great flexibility in the selection of engine power and speed to obtain the optimum fit to ship and propeller requirements and best installation economy, with a wide range of power and speed covered by each engine. Their power is frequently expressed in kilowatts, and 1 kilowatt is equal to 1.34 hp [1 hp = 0.746 kw].

Conventional medium-speed diesel engines have often been used as the main engines bulk carriers. The Wärtsilä 64 is the world's most powerful medium-speed engine. It offers an outstanding range of power options with minimum size - 17,200 kW [23,056 hp], measuring 12.74 meters long, 4.165 meters wide and 6.415 meters high, with an overall weight of 295 tonnes.

Small marine diesels such as the Wärtsilä RT-flex35 low-speed marine diesel engines are tailor-made for the economical and reliable propulsion of many types of small and medium-sized commercial vessels. They are designed to give the best powers and speeds for a wide variety of ship types, such as handysize bulk carriers and product tankers, general cargo vessels, reefers, feeder container ships, and small LPG carriers. Available with five to eight cylinders, the RT-flex35 cover a power range of 3475–6960 kW [4658-9329 hp] at 142–167 rpm. The highest power is delivered by the eight cylinder version, measuring 5.7 meters long, 2.3 meters wide and 8.1 meters high, with an overall weight of 89 tonnes [in practice auxiliary machinery could dictate an installation nearly three times this wide].

The Aioi Works of Japan's Diesel United, Ltd built the first Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C turbo charged two-stroke diesel ship engine, the most powerful and most efficient prime-mover of super ships in the world today. These engines were designed primarily for very large container ships. The engine weighs in at 2,300 tons and is capable of delivering 109,000 horsepower. The first 14-cylinder Wärtsilä RT-flex96C marine engine has a maximum continuous power output of 80,080 kW (108,920 bhp) at 102 rpm. Measuring 27.3 m long and 13.5 m high, it has an overall weight of 2300 tonnes.

At the lower end, the Wärtsilä 64 medium-speed engines might be arranged in a three abreast installation [12.74 meters long, versus 20 meters available] in each engine room, for a total of a half-dozen engines, providing 138,000 hp, about two-thirds that originally planned. The 9,000 hp RT-flex35 low-speed engines might be arranged in a pair [2 x 5.7 m length = 11.4 meters, versus 20 meters available] of four abreast installations [6 meters width for each engine], for a total of a dozen engines, providing 108,000 hp, just over half that originally planned. A pair of RTA96-C low-speed engines would provide 218,000 horsepower, a bit more than that originally planned, but the engine's dimensions exceed those of the existing engine rooms by wide margins [27.3 m long versus 20 meters, and 13.5 m high versus 10 meters].

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[usaone]

Great posts Bruce and Verrip1.

China makes the products we dont want to make any more. Who wants to go to college and then stitch socks together all day?

[vl]

China makes the products we don't want to make any more.

Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=4363#ixzz1Fwfl7Wak

China makes the products we used to make to last. Big Business Platform Importers don't want things to last, they want to have more frequent sales of the same stuff that cumulatively cost way more in the long run. When we made them to last, ALL Americans were employed and the economy was more stable and predictable.

Who wants to go to college and then stitch socks together all day?


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When you need to stitch a sock and don't know how and socks now cost $1 million a pair because the US Dollar isn't recognized anywhere else in the world, you swear at all that programming you got in college and wish you spent more time living life than button-pushing it.

[usaone]

Except China is trading in there short term Bonds and is now betting LONG on America.

Its a shame V_L that China has more faith in America than you do.

[verrip1]

Yeah, usaone, some people have become completely lost due to the 08 market slide. They'll never be the same again. Their view of life has forever been modified.

They simply quit.

[bimetalaupt]

Mar 7, 2011 17:42:44 GMT -5 verrip1 said:

Yeah, usaone, some people have become completely lost due to the 08 market slide. They'll never be the same again. Their view of life has forever been modified.

They simply quit.

I thought it was interesting that those that did nothing won in the long run ,, keep investing in deeply discounted assets and will retire doing well..This was esp true for those who had an aggressive 401k or 403b... Just look at all the QE Ben B. put into the market and how little effect it had on M2...

Just a thought,
Bruce

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[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I thought it was interesting that those that did nothing won in the long run ,, keep investing in deeply discounted assets and will retire doing well..

That's why we call him Bruce the Impaler!!

[bimetalaupt]

Mar 8, 2011 2:11:02 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

I thought it was interesting that those that did nothing won in the long run ,, keep investing in deeply discounted assets and will retire doing well..

That's why we call him Bruce the Impaler!!

A++,
Thank-you for your kind words...

Bruce

[vl]

Except China is trading in there short term Bonds and is now betting LONG on America.

Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=4363#ixzz1G0fSTjxs

After gutting an entire economy and realizing all it did was shoot your own economy in the abdomen, going long is like beating a victim nearly to death, then nursing them back to consciousness so you can beat them nearly to death again. You are so closely aligned with the investment that you cannot see the impact of the investment on the economy itself.
You assume too much and are narrow-minded in perspective. Retire well? Where? In the Hell your investments created or are you relocating?