EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Feb 5, 2015 1:05:00 GMT -5
In defense of Richard- he is getting royally fucked by the ACA. In defiance of Richard, his idea that the free market is the solution requires mental intervention.
That's my hope anyway- that Obamacare pisses off enough people so they realize that we do not need insurance companies  |
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Feb 5, 2015 1:49:45 GMT -5
Our health insurance has never "punished" us at all.
Well Bully for you!
It never happened to dondub so it must not have ever happened to anyone!
His rates have never gone up because he's made a claim. His policies have never been cancelled due to claims made. Yay for him! We can all rest easy, folks. People's policies were never cancelled... it was just a silly rumor supported by facts that we shouldn't believe!
Simmer down Richard. It was just a simple statement of fact that disagreed with you. No need to read between lines is there? |
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Feb 5, 2015 1:57:05 GMT -5
And Richard...can you provide a link to show that for every 10 people that are helped by the ACA that 90 are hurt. That way no one will think you are making that up due to be overly emotional about this issue.
From what I have read, there are more than 2 people that have signed up for every one that had a POS policy cancelled and you haven't posted a link yet, per request, to show how many of those have not been able to secure new policies. It always seems dishonest and non factual to me that those that mention the cancellations try to pretend that those folks were no longer able to secure health insurance. I disagree. |
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 5, 2015 2:16:41 GMT -5
It's always nice to come back to a thread you stopped reading for a while, catch up, and find everybody engaged in friendly dialog. "STARVING PEOPLE ARE STUPID!" "YOU'RE STUPID! YOU CAN'T SPELL!" "READ THE DAMNED CHART!" "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!" "OBAMACARE IS DOA, YOU TWIT!" "SAYS YOU, PURVEYOR OF ENDLESSLY-REVISED CBO BS!" "WHY YOU LITTLE...!" *gakkkkkkkk* I'm home.  Funny.......  .....  |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2015 13:16:42 GMT -5
So, you're for universal healthcare, with no insurance companies involved at all? Not exactly. I'm for basic services covered by a tax funded governmental system... but still have insurance for other things. cosmetic surgery, for example: Say you get mauled by a dog. The Federal system will fix you up and make everything work as well as they can. But making it pretty or "more than just functional" would be on your and/or your insurance's dime. this is what is called a "dual system", and it is a feature of the (25) best healthcare systems in the world. and oddly enough, i completely agree that this is what we SHOULD have. if we want to be the best, anyway. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2015 13:18:03 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, @richardintn, do you not know anyone who was unable to get insurance because of a pre-existing condition? Perhaps it's because of my work, but I knew several people who fell into that group. Most had held jobs and been insured at one time but became ill with a chronic condition, or injured. Some had their insurance cancelled, others lost the employment that had provided their insurance. This wasn't an unusual situation, believe me. I've probably said it a 100 times (counting all times on every board I've been on)... Yes. There are people that are helped by it. I've known a few that were pre-existing condition disqualified. I don't deny that they have been helped by Obamacare. Never have denied it, never will. The problem is: if you have 100 people, and you help 10 but harm 90... is it a good thing? No. It's not. So, again, Yes, Obamacare does help some people... but it harms more than it helps. (not to mention that it costs Trillions of dollars... dollars that we, as a country, cannot afford). i disagree with your proportions. it might be 50/50, though i have not studied it enough to say. but it is very unlikely that it is 90/10. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2015 13:20:40 GMT -5
It's always nice to come back to a thread you stopped reading for a while, catch up, and find everybody engaged in friendly dialog. "STARVING PEOPLE ARE STUPID!" "YOU'RE STUPID! YOU CAN'T SPELL!" "READ THE DAMNED CHART!" "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!" "OBAMACARE IS DOA, YOU TWIT!" "SAYS YOU, PURVEYOR OF ENDLESSLY-REVISED CBO BS!" "WHY YOU LITTLE...!" *gakkkkkkkk* I'm home. you're odd. |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 5, 2015 13:22:48 GMT -5
Not exactly. I'm for basic services covered by a tax funded governmental system... but still have insurance for other things. cosmetic surgery, for example: Say you get mauled by a dog. The Federal system will fix you up and make everything work as well as they can. But making it pretty or "more than just functional" would be on your and/or your insurance's dime. this is what is called a "dual system", and it is a feature of the (25) best healthcare systems in the world. and oddly enough, i completely agree that this is what we SHOULD have. if we want to be the best, anyway. Why is it odd that you agree? Also, out of curiosity, what does (25) mean? Did you mean ~25? |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 5, 2015 13:23:32 GMT -5
It's always nice to come back to a thread you stopped reading for a while, catch up, and find everybody engaged in friendly dialog. "STARVING PEOPLE ARE STUPID!" "YOU'RE STUPID! YOU CAN'T SPELL!" "READ THE DAMNED CHART!" "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!" "OBAMACARE IS DOA, YOU TWIT!" "SAYS YOU, PURVEYOR OF ENDLESSLY-REVISED CBO BS!" "WHY YOU LITTLE...!" *gakkkkkkkk* I'm home. you're odd. So are you, apparently.  |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2015 13:52:34 GMT -5
this is what is called a "dual system", and it is a feature of the (25) best healthcare systems in the world. and oddly enough, i completely agree that this is what we SHOULD have. if we want to be the best, anyway. Why is it odd that you agree? Also, out of curiosity, what does (25) mean? Did you mean ~25? because i am certain that there are some that are not dual systems that are ranked below (25)th. but yes. it might be the top (35), but i didn't want to reach, and have to retract the point. edit: and it is odd because Richard and i fight all the time about the ACA. i had NO IDEA that he felt this way. by all the time, i mean, like, EVERY DAY. i would never have guessed that we agreed on the basic ideas, because i have mentioned the idea of a dual system probably a dozen times, and he never responded. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2015 13:54:41 GMT -5
you're odd. So are you, apparently. i prefer the term weird, actually. but odd works. |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 5, 2015 14:01:24 GMT -5
So are you, apparently. i prefer the term weird, actually. but odd works. I kinda like eccentric. It's got such a classical ring. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2015 14:17:02 GMT -5
i prefer the term weird, actually. but odd works. I kinda like eccentric. It's got such a classical ring. i use that term for describing other weirdos in a non-offensive way. ie: "one of the cool things about France is they high value they place on their eccentrics" |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 19:00:14 GMT -5
In defense of Richard- he is getting royally fucked by the ACA. In defiance of Richard, his idea that the free market is the solution requires mental intervention.
That's my hope anyway- that Obamacare pisses off enough people so they realize that we do not need insurance companies You need to re-channel that defiance idea. I've never advocated that the free market is the solution for healthcare. Mixing healthcare and the free market is a really, REALLY baaaaaaaddddddd idea. (I believe that was dj... but I could be mistaken) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 19:05:23 GMT -5
And Richard...can you provide a link to show that for every 10 people that are helped by the ACA that 90 are hurt. That way no one will think you are making that up due to be overly emotional about this issue.
From what I have read, there are more than 2 people that have signed up for every one that had a POS policy cancelled and you haven't posted a link yet, per request, to show how many of those have not been able to secure new policies. It always seems dishonest and non factual to me that those that mention the cancellations try to pretend that those folks were no longer able to secure health insurance. I disagree. The 100 10/90 wasn't exact figures, it was exaggerated to prove a point. "Helping the lesser percentage while penalizing the greater percentage is bad" was the message most people would have gotten out of that... instead you got "where'd he get 10?" give me a little time for researching links and I'll see if I can find "exact" numbers for you... (I got my information over time from various sources... I recall the data but not the sources... that's why the need to research) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 19:06:38 GMT -5
Why is it odd that you agree? Also, out of curiosity, what does (25) mean? Did you mean ~25? because i am certain that there are some that are not dual systems that are ranked below (25)th. but yes. it might be the top (35), but i didn't want to reach, and have to retract the point. edit: and it is odd because Richard and i fight all the time about the ACA. i had NO IDEA that he felt this way. by all the time, i mean, like, EVERY DAY. i would never have guessed that we agreed on the basic ideas, because i have mentioned the idea of a dual system probably a dozen times, and he never responded. I probably missed it if it was inserted. I don't read inserts. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 19:26:59 GMT -5
CNN Poll (Twice As Many Americans Were Hurt By Obamacare Than Helped)  Source
That's just the first one that popped up when I Googled "helped vs hurt obamacare" (Google changed the search to "helped or hurt obamacare" Now, granted, it's not my 10/90... but it does show almost twice as many (35/18) hurt compared to how many were helped... and 46% were unchanged... so they can be discarded (statistically speaking), making it OF THOSE THAT HAD A CHANGE, roughly 33% helped and 66% hurt. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2015 19:38:28 GMT -5
because i am certain that there are some that are not dual systems that are ranked below (25)th. but yes. it might be the top (35), but i didn't want to reach, and have to retract the point. edit: and it is odd because Richard and i fight all the time about the ACA. i had NO IDEA that he felt this way. by all the time, i mean, like, EVERY DAY. i would never have guessed that we agreed on the basic ideas, because i have mentioned the idea of a dual system probably a dozen times, and he never responded. I probably missed it if it was inserted. I don't read inserts. yeah, you mentioned that. |
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Feb 5, 2015 19:38:55 GMT -5
An interesting link to gallup polls. They have it at 27% to 16% hurt versus helped.
www.gallup.com/poll/178094/say-health-law-hurt-instead-helped.aspx
But scrolling down you can see that Repos claim the law has hurt them at 40% which skews the numbers. Considering 70% total are in the helped or didn't change a thing category you can draw your own mathematical conclusions quite easily. Obviously, many that it has had no effect on are claiming they have been hurt by the law. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2015 19:39:43 GMT -5
CNN Poll (Twice As Many Americans Were Hurt By Obamacare Than Helped) Source
That's just the first one that popped up when I Googled "helped vs hurt obamacare" (Google changed the search to "helped or hurt obamacare" Now, granted, it's not my 10/90... but it does show almost twice as many (35/18) hurt compared to how many were helped... and 46% were unchanged... so they can be discarded (statistically speaking), making it OF THOSE THAT HAD A CHANGE, roughly 33% helped and 66% hurt. 50% more were better off or "about the same" than worse off. glass half empty? |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2015 19:42:41 GMT -5
In defense of Richard- he is getting royally fucked by the ACA. In defiance of Richard, his idea that the free market is the solution requires mental intervention.
That's my hope anyway- that Obamacare pisses off enough people so they realize that we do not need insurance companies You need to re-channel that defiance idea. I've never advocated that the free market is the solution for healthcare. Mixing healthcare and the free market is a really, REALLY baaaaaaaddddddd idea. (I believe that was dj... but I could be mistaken) what is "that" you believe? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 20:01:19 GMT -5
CNN Poll (Twice As Many Americans Were Hurt By Obamacare Than Helped) Source
That's just the first one that popped up when I Googled "helped vs hurt obamacare" (Google changed the search to "helped or hurt obamacare" Now, granted, it's not my 10/90... but it does show almost twice as many (35/18) hurt compared to how many were helped... and 46% were unchanged... so they can be discarded (statistically speaking), making it OF THOSE THAT HAD A CHANGE, roughly 33% helped and 66% hurt. 50% more were better off or "about the same" than worse off. glass half empty? 81% (35% + 46%) were worse off or "about the same" than better off... nope. More like 3/4 full. You see why I threw out the "about the same"? ETA: Trillions spent for no gain makes it more reasonable to put the 46% "about the same" with the 35% "worse off"... because of the waste of money involved for no significant change) |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2015 20:04:31 GMT -5
50% more were better off or "about the same" than worse off. glass half empty? 81% (35% + 46%) were worse off or "about the same" than better off... nope. More like 3/4 full. interesting how you can break it down, isn't it? let me know when you get to 90. edit: i would appreciate a reply to post 141, when you have the chance. tyia. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 20:09:09 GMT -5
You need to re-channel that defiance idea. I've never advocated that the free market is the solution for healthcare. Mixing healthcare and the free market is a really, REALLY baaaaaaaddddddd idea. (I believe that was dj... but I could be mistaken) what is "that" you believe? As I said I could be mistaken, but I believe the idea of "free market healthcare is the solution" was your idea. Please correct me if I am wrong. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2015 20:11:32 GMT -5
what is "that" you believe? As I said I could be mistaken, but I believe the idea of "free market healthcare is the solution" was your idea. Please correct me if I am wrong. i have never said that is NOT the solution, but no- i have never said it IS the solution, either. i think the solution looks a lot like what you proposed earlier: a dual system. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 20:12:07 GMT -5
81% (35% + 46%) were worse off or "about the same" than better off... nope. More like 3/4 full. interesting how you can break it down, isn't it? let me know when you get to 90. edit: i would appreciate a reply to post 141, when you have the chance. tyia. Why? I already said my 10/90 wasn't exact figures, it was more of a general point that "helping the minority while hurting the majority is wrong". If more were helped by Obamacare than were hurt... I'd probably support it (depends on how much it hurt the economy still). Problem is... it isn't balanced that way. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 5, 2015 20:13:00 GMT -5
interesting how you can break it down, isn't it? let me know when you get to 90. edit: i would appreciate a reply to post 141, when you have the chance. tyia. Why? I already said my 10/90 wasn't exact figures, it was more of a general point that "helping the minority while hurting the majority is wrong". If more were helped by Obamacare than were hurt... I'd probably support it (depends on how much it hurt the economy still). Problem is... it isn't balanced that way. i was being sarcastic, Richard. have a drink. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 20:13:43 GMT -5
Can't. I'm at work.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Feb 5, 2015 20:34:04 GMT -5
90 to 10 is quite a bit different than the Gallup polls 27 to 16.  |
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Feb 5, 2015 23:09:23 GMT -5
Not exactly. I'm for basic services covered by a tax funded governmental system... but still have insurance for other things. cosmetic surgery, for example: Say you get mauled by a dog. The Federal system will fix you up and make everything work as well as they can. But making it pretty or "more than just functional" would be on your and/or your insurance's dime. Under our system, you have to pay for plastic surgery. Nose jobs, boob jobs, etc. However, if you're mauled by a dog or in a disfiguring car crash, the plastic surgery costs nothing out of pocket. It was an unfortunate accident, and the patient isn't penalized. i think cosmetic surgery, which is typically out of pocket has dropped in price significantly compared to other procedures covered by insurance. Probably something worth looking into why that is |
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