MN-Investor
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Post by MN-Investor on Jan 28, 2015 19:00:19 GMT -5
Have you looked at the examples in that article? For the most part, the greater your income disparity, the greater the benefit from filing jointly. You probably DON'T have a marriage penalty because of the difference between single vs. married rates.
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atlast30
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Post by atlast30 on Jan 28, 2015 21:14:51 GMT -5
I got married last year. According to my tax software, my federal tax refund/bill would be the following based on my filing status:
Single - Owe $38 (I ran this scenario to see what the amount would be) Married filing separately - Owe slightly over $5,000, which was a HUGE shocker! Married filing jointly - refund slightly over $6,300, another HUGE shocker!
I usually do my own taxes, but we plan to hire a tax professional to do our 2014 taxes because we experienced several life changes. If the figures above are accurate, it is clear that we would experience a large marriage penalty if we file separately, but would see a nice benefit if we file jointly. We actually planned to file separately until I saw that I would owe the government thousands of dollars notwithstanding the tens of thousands that I already paid in 2014.
I made considerably more than my husband last year and our combined federal taxes was primarily deducted from my income. I tithed/donated a considerable amount of cash (approx. 12.8% of my gross salary); unfortunately, under the married filing separately scenario, my itemized deductions were capped, which really sucked!!
If the filing jointly estimate is accurate, we agreed that $5K would be applied to the mortgage and we would use the rest to go on a trip. I typically try to keep my refunds under a $500 because I rather not overpay the government every pay period. Therefore, I will adjust my with-holdings if the $6,300 refund figure is accurate.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Jan 28, 2015 21:47:00 GMT -5
Worse than the marriage penalty is the no kids penalty. No dependant deduction. No child care deduction. No education expense/education savings deduction. What do you get? Taxes to support the schools your non-kids don't go to (30% of our property taxes). Taxes to support the parks and rec programs your non-kids don't particiapte in. Taxes to support the low income breakfast, lunch, and school break feeding programs that your non-kids won't benefit from. The expectation that you will cover the work of the parent who is at parent/teacher conferences. The expectation that you will make sure that the project with the tight deadline is completed while the parent picks up their child from day care before it closes and goes home. The expectation that you will cover the work of the parent who is at home with a sick child. The expectation that you will cover the work of the parent on maternity leave/parental bonding leave/new adoption leave. A smaller pay check so that your employer can provide a bigger medical care subsidy for employees raising families/subsidize on site child care facilities/sick child nursing programs/adoption assistance/fertility treatments, and the like. Seems like a pretty high price to pay to support the lifestyle decisions that other people make. Why don't you use your parks and rec programs? I play on the adult softball league, pack picnics for the park, go running in the parks, go to the festivals and concert series and even take a few fun classes a year. I go to the library every week and check out books. I love the county programs! ETA- just reviewed the winter program guide and they even off free tax return services with volunteers from AARP! I've also played on the public golf courses. I can even take a 1/week 90 minute cooking class for 4 weeks for a whopping $12.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 22:35:06 GMT -5
Pay the marriage/child penalty every year, makes it easier to say no when little Johnny or Suzy come to the door with whatever school fundraiser of the hour.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jan 29, 2015 0:47:23 GMT -5
I seldom worked with problem parents but even good ones sometimes have many more doctor appointments so leave early or come late or miss time. I worked with a father who got my shift changed so he could take mine because he had a kid. I worked 6-2 and he 8-4 but his daughter was in daycare so he wanted to leave at 2 to get her so years of me having the late shift, I hated it. Another worker left exactly at 2 no matter what he was doing because he had a carpool and they took a ferry. He would start an upgrade then I had to finish it or I had to handle his emergencies sometimes working until late at night because of his commute.
My dad used to talk about the tax exemption for children when I was young it was $600 he liked to complain you couldn't raise a child for $600. So I know it was around in the 50s and 60s. We didn't need daycare since we had housewives so you could get a babysitter cheap even if you worked mom used to take in kids sometimes and I know she couldn't have charged much.
I don't mind pay for schools because I want our future workers to know a thing or two and a parent only pay system means poor kids don't stand a chance of getting an education. A free basic education paid by taxpayer is good for all of us.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jan 29, 2015 0:54:39 GMT -5
I sure do miss the days when people looked beyond their own personal lives and believed in something bigger. Name ONE country with an educated populace that doesn't have some sort of tax/employment system that benefits those with children. Name ONE politically/economically stable country without an educated populace. IT ISN'T ALL ABOUT YOU.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 1:59:59 GMT -5
I sure do miss the days when people looked beyond their own personal lives and believed in something bigger. Name ONE country with an educated populace that doesn't have some sort of tax/employment system that benefits those with children. Name ONE politically/economically stable country without an educated populace. IT ISN'T ALL ABOUT YOU. It is a lot easier to say that if you are benefiting from others that are helping to defray the cost of educating your children. I don't mind helping to pay for an educated populous that is ready for the workforce but each year the schools here ask for the max tax increase which is always higher than inflation and test scores are getting worse. I also have an issue with teachers/administrators salaries growing by more than inflation each year and their lucrative pensions, a benefit I have to help pay for but don't get myself. Maybe it's the state I live that has the most underfunded pension system in the county that has me a bit jaded though I should be long gone before the hammer drops on that one.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jan 29, 2015 4:16:20 GMT -5
I sure do miss the days when people looked beyond their own personal lives and believed in something bigger. Name ONE country with an educated populace that doesn't have some sort of tax/employment system that benefits those with children. Name ONE politically/economically stable country without an educated populace. IT ISN'T ALL ABOUT YOU. It is a lot easier to say that if you are benefiting from others that are helping to defray the cost of educating your children. I don't mind helping to pay for an educated populous that is ready for the workforce but each year the schools here ask for the max tax increase which is always higher than inflation and test scores are getting worse. I also have an issue with teachers/administrators salaries growing by more than inflation each year and their lucrative pensions, a benefit I have to help pay for but don't get myself. Maybe it's the state I live that has the most underfunded pension system in the county that has me a bit jaded though I should be long gone before the hammer drops on that one. I get what you are saying. We all benefit from an educated society so taxes should find out schools. Where I take issue is the salaries/benefits that the teachers and administrators are paid. In our area, the teachers salaries are far above the average, especially when you factor in the hiurs they work. Administrators do work a full year and their salaries are high but not as far out of line. We keep throwing money at the schools but our kids keep losing ground
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Jan 29, 2015 6:54:43 GMT -5
I sure do miss the days when people looked beyond their own personal lives and believed in something bigger. Name ONE country with an educated populace that doesn't have some sort of tax/employment system that benefits those with children. Name ONE politically/economically stable country without an educated populace. IT ISN'T ALL ABOUT YOU. It is a lot easier to say that if you are benefiting from others that are helping to defray the cost of educating your children. I don't mind helping to pay for an educated populous that is ready for the workforce but each year the schools here ask for the max tax increase which is always higher than inflation and test scores are getting worse. I also have an issue with teachers/administrators salaries growing by more than inflation each year and their lucrative pensions, a benefit I have to help pay for but don't get myself. Maybe it's the state I live that has the most underfunded pension system in the county that has me a bit jaded though I should be long gone before the hammer drops on that one. I agree with Formerly SK and I have never benefitted from any of these credits. We need an educated populace for our nation to be successful. I don't mind paying a bit extra for it, and I am currently paying a small marriage tax as our incomes are roughly equal.
I object more to all the extra work I have done over the years at work to cover for parents that take way too much time off. But at the same time my employer has been very flexible with me, allowing me to telecommute.
As far as teachers go, that probably varies quite a bit by region. My sister and my sister in law are both teachers, and one of them make double of what the other makes because they are in different areas of the country.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jan 29, 2015 7:59:25 GMT -5
I don't get a tax break for my kids. One year I missed it by something crazy like $300. I guess I should go cry in a corner now and blame the world? Maybe find a lower paying job?
tskeeter, if your job gives parents extra time off it sounds like you should get a better job so you won't be so bitter. Perhaps we can switch? I wouldn't mind the extra perks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 8:05:17 GMT -5
I get what you are saying. We all benefit from an educated society so taxes should find out schools. Where I take issue is the salaries/benefits that the teachers and administrators are paid. In our area, the teachers salaries are far above the average, especially when you factor in the hiurs they work. Administrators do work a full year and their salaries are high but not as far out of line. We keep throwing money at the schools but our kids keep losing ground I'm curious. Teachers' salaries are far above the average . . . as compared to whom or what?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 29, 2015 8:12:18 GMT -5
I am trying to be as zen as I can about taxes. Yes, I have kids, but I also pay quite a bit in taxes.
But, without all those child tax credits and deductions, they would just lower the income level to get all the services and it would be a wash. The problem is that us rich-folk have made a decision to outsource reproduction to lower income people. And then we realize that all the people we are depending on in our old age are growing up in poverty and squalor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 8:25:21 GMT -5
well I no longer get a child tax credit and haven't been able to get any of it in years. I don't get to deduct any educational expenses. When I was paying student loans you couldn't deduct the interest.
I also work in a job where if I leave at 2 in the afternoon nobody has to cover for me.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Jan 29, 2015 8:36:47 GMT -5
I don't mind pay for schools because I want our future workers to know a thing or two .... A free basic education paid by taxpayer is good for all of us.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jan 29, 2015 8:48:46 GMT -5
What do you get? Taxes to support the schools your non-kids don't go to (30% of our property taxes). We pay a lot more in school taxes, I guess. Our school tax bill is roughly equal to our property tax bill, but the property tax bill contains lots of additional stuff: garbage fees, recycling fees, fire protection, water district, water improvement, drainage, etc. I think only 62% of the property tax bill was actually town and county property taxes. I also believe that the majority of our county tax bill is unfunded mandates passed along from the state, primarily Medicaid. Oh, and that school tax bill is relatively low, since it is after the STAR exemption is applied. The state pays the portion on the first $30k of value, and home values are cheap here, so it is a bigger benefit than in more affluent areas.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 9:15:17 GMT -5
well I no longer get a child tax credit and haven't been able to get any of it in years. I don't get to deduct any educational expenses. When I was paying student loans you couldn't deduct the interest. I also work in a job where if I leave at 2 in the afternoon nobody has to cover for me. I work in a job where if I need to go to the restroom someone has to cover for me.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jan 29, 2015 9:16:23 GMT -5
I get what you are saying. We all benefit from an educated society so taxes should find out schools. Where I take issue is the salaries/benefits that the teachers and administrators are paid. In our area, the teachers salaries are far above the average, especially when you factor in the hiurs they work. Administrators do work a full year and their salaries are high but not as far out of line. We keep throwing money at the schools but our kids keep losing ground I'm curious. Teachers' salaries are far above the average . . . as compared to who or what? Yes, another poster who has never taught, or been a close friend or married to a teacher. Teachers only have to "work" between 8-3 each day and get summers off. You forgot to add in the planning, grading and reporting time. My wife only has kids in the classroom until 3pm, but she has paperwork to do which usually takes her until 1:00am everyday, up at 6:00am, rinse and repeat. She averages 16 hours of work each day, with 8 hours on the weekend. You should try it sometime, it's so easy anyone can do it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 9:18:06 GMT -5
I've been paying property taxes for years for schools I didn't/don't use. My parents did that, too. My siblings and I spent 12 years in parochial schools and DS went to a military boarding school for HS. DH and I are 76 and 61, respectively, no kids in the school system.
I don't mind supporting a public system. It keeps the property values up, for one thing. You may not care about the school system but prospective buyers might. I saw a lot of waste in the district I lived n in NJ, though, starting with over $1 million the school system's business manager embezzled before he got caught. (The district had no idea till the FBI showed up and confiscated their computers.) Then there was the bond issue (about $12 million) to revamp the 2 high schools and included a "state-of-the-art darkroom" (just before the advent of digital photography), "greatly enhanced performing arts spaces" and $100K worth of landscaping. They couldn't tell us whether it would result in increased utility costs. I was very glad to move out of there (and my buyers WANTED to be in the district!).
But to get back to the OT- yeah, DH and I pay the marriage tax up the wazoo. Let's start with the $5K in extra Federal taxes on his SS. His SS will also be included in taxable income by our state. I lost my Single Head of Household filing status when we married (DS was 18 but in college so I ha da few years to go on that). I can't collect my Ex's Widow's benefits because I remarried. There are a ton of tax breaks DH would get if we weren't married since his income is SS and a RMD from his IRA of under $1K per year. Still, we do better filing jointly so we do.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 29, 2015 9:18:24 GMT -5
I'm curious. Teachers' salaries are far above the average . . . as compared to who or what? Yes, another poster who has never taught, or been a close friend or married to a teacher. Teachers only have to "work" between 8-3 each day and get summers off. You forgot to add in the planning, grading and reporting time. My wife only has kids in the classroom until 3pm, but she has paperwork to do which usually takes her until 1:00am everyday, up at 6:00am, rinse and repeat. She averages 16 hours of work each day, with 8 hours on the weekend. You should try it sometime, it's so easy anyone can do it. I thought @southernsusana was a retired teacher....
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 29, 2015 9:21:57 GMT -5
well I no longer get a child tax credit and haven't been able to get any of it in years. I don't get to deduct any educational expenses. When I was paying student loans you couldn't deduct the interest. I also work in a job where if I leave at 2 in the afternoon nobody has to cover for me. I work in a job where if I need to go to the restroom someone has to cover for me. I KNEW there was a reason I didn't go into teaching... (goes off to search for an emoji with legs crossed hopping up and down)
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jan 29, 2015 9:23:37 GMT -5
MJ, her post was a double quote, I was trying to support her coment calling out the other poster, but didn't get the whole quote included. Technology sucks sometimes. I guess I've been married to a teacher for too long and am getting tired of all the teacher bashing.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jan 29, 2015 9:29:05 GMT -5
I don't know how it is where you guys work, but here no one just picks up and leaves for kid stuff. You have to spend the apprropriate leave that everyone gets.
As for covering work, it's not an issue. If I don't show up to work that day, the work will just keep piling up.
I do admit though, I am a bit peeved about giving additional tax breaks to people who have kids.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 29, 2015 9:32:19 GMT -5
MJ, her post was a double quote, I was trying to support her coment calling out the other poster, but didn't get the whole quote included. Technology sucks sometimes. I guess I've been married to a teacher for too long and am getting tired of all the teacher bashing. Gotcha. I have a lot of HS friends that are K-12 teachers and I wanted to get into teaching social studies years ago. They may not work full time all year round, but it's not an easy breezy job. The pressure of educating our future leaders is greater than making sure some company meets its quarterly sales targets IMO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 9:35:52 GMT -5
LOL I think we took this thread to a whole other place!
My standpoint is this, we should have a good public education system with fairly paid teachers. As a taxpayer that helps fund this, I have the right to question how that money is being used and to ask why that amount keeps increasing over inflation every year and why teachers/administrators get retirement benefits well above the average taxpayer, it isn't teacher bashing.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 29, 2015 9:40:27 GMT -5
There can be a lot of corruption in local government - that may be why tax increases appear to make no actual changes.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jan 29, 2015 9:40:43 GMT -5
I guess our government jobs are better in some ways I am a parent but I would wholeheartedly disagree with any company that provides more benefits to those with children than those without. I really don't think that is the norm, though, at least not in this region. If you are an hourly or salaried employee and use up all your paid time off, you can take FMLA if you really need to care for a sick child/parent/etc., but you won't be getting a paycheck.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 29, 2015 9:45:15 GMT -5
I guess our government jobs are better in some ways I am a parent but I would wholeheartedly disagree with any company that provides more benefits to those with children than those without. I really don't think that is the norm, though, at least not in this region. If you are an hourly or salaried employee and use up all your paid time off, you can take FMLA if you really need to care for a sick child/parent/etc., but you won't be getting a paycheck. Just for the sake of discussion let's explore that statement a little... Take out the word "company" and replace it with "tax system" and I think you have the gist of what some peeps are trying to say and I agree with them. Society should not be forced to subsidize my choice to have a child. Why people think the ability to breed should get them extra perks is completely beyond me (such as those who are whining for paternity leave now for gosh sakes - I mean really? - what would we give the childless people - puppy leave?)
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jan 29, 2015 9:49:12 GMT -5
I guess our government jobs are better in some ways I am a parent but I would wholeheartedly disagree with any company that provides more benefits to those with children than those without. I really don't think that is the norm, though, at least not in this region. If you are an hourly or salaried employee and use up all your paid time off, you can take FMLA if you really need to care for a sick child/parent/etc., but you won't be getting a paycheck. Just for the sake of discussion let's explore that statement a little... Take out the word "company" and replace it with "tax system" and I think you have the gist of what some peeps are trying to say and I agree with them. Society should not be forced to subsidize my choice to have a child. Why people think the ability to breed should get them extra perks is completely beyond me (such as those who are whining for paternity leave now for gosh sakes - I mean really? - what would we give the childless people - puppy leave?) I agree ... and in the same token I was always annoyed at the people who were so jealous of my short term disability after having a kid. Guess what, if you want to bleed out of your vag for 6 weeks (or have any other medical procedure), you can get paid too!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 9:51:43 GMT -5
The country needs future taxpayers.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 29, 2015 9:53:47 GMT -5
Wouldn't we want to incentivize some level of repopulation? Maybe cap it at 2 deductions/credits allowed or something, but at some point a society has to continue to replenish itself. Who is going to be working to pay taxes that will come to support those who didn't have children of their own? Of course the YM crowd won't need anyone to take care of them in their old age, but there's a large population that will!!
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