thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 27, 2015 20:52:14 GMT -5
He also said it really drives home the question, "Why the hell are we even over there?"That sounds like a political question to me.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 28, 2015 0:05:15 GMT -5
He also said it really drives home the question, "Why the hell are we even over there?"That sounds like a political question to me. I think by "political", posters here are referring to "partisan". War is inherently political.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jan 28, 2015 3:57:04 GMT -5
It's just a good movie, Virgil. It gives you a very small peek into what it's really like being away from home and in constant fear of death. Obviously, it's a movie and NOT real life, but I have read comments from those who were really there, saying it's as close to reality as can be. For those of us who will, thank God, never have to witness that, it's an eye opener. I felt this way about the movie "Pearl Harbor". It's a bird's eye view of the lengths people will go to to hurt others - how they will willingly send their small children into certain death. It's a bird's eye view of what others will do in response. I think it's just a good history lesson. I'm not saying that every minute of it is true - I don't know. But I do know I've read those who do know the truth and they say it is. It opens up dialog, if you ask me. Why were we there? What did we accomplish? Was it and is it worth it? I surely don't know, but it makes you think. It's a chapter of our history that needs to be read - one you won't find in school books - one that wasn't written by somebody sitting at their typewriter, all safe and sound in the US of A - writing about somebody else's experience. It's chapter into the psychological issues (not to mention the physical ones) we need to address when our men and women come home. OK. Thanks for the synopsis. I prefer not to watch movies where people killing each other is one of the central themes, but it's good to know just in case. I thought it might be another military propaganda film like Zero Dark Thirty, which I haven't watched precisely because numerous reviewers have convinced me it's a military propaganda film. I strongly dislike movies based on reality in general. They're either inaccurate, in which case I find them disingenuous (and often skewed to the favour of some individual), or they're accurate and they leave you with feelings of sorrow, rage, and helplessness, which is precisely the kind of thing I don't need from a trip to the movies. This movie sounds cut from the same cloth as "Saving Private Ryan", where one walks away hating a third of the people in it, pitying a third of the people in it, and fruitlessly contemplating the mindset of a third of the people in it. I'd pay good money to avoid all three, hence I've learned to eschew that kind of movie. Not as a criticism at all of your feelings...you have a right to them and I applaud you knowing and sticking to what is comfortable with you..however I would suggest ..stick to Disney..well the family oriented anyway..believe they now do real life drama now..
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 28, 2015 8:11:13 GMT -5
That sounds like a political question to me. I think by "political", posters here are referring to "partisan". War is inherently political. Ah - Well, now I understand why this thread makes no sense.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 28, 2015 12:55:46 GMT -5
OK. Thanks for the synopsis. I prefer not to watch movies where people killing each other is one of the central themes, but it's good to know just in case. I thought it might be another military propaganda film like Zero Dark Thirty, which I haven't watched precisely because numerous reviewers have convinced me it's a military propaganda film. I strongly dislike movies based on reality in general. They're either inaccurate, in which case I find them disingenuous (and often skewed to the favour of some individual), or they're accurate and they leave you with feelings of sorrow, rage, and helplessness, which is precisely the kind of thing I don't need from a trip to the movies. This movie sounds cut from the same cloth as "Saving Private Ryan", where one walks away hating a third of the people in it, pitying a third of the people in it, and fruitlessly contemplating the mindset of a third of the people in it. I'd pay good money to avoid all three, hence I've learned to eschew that kind of movie. Not as a criticism at all of your feelings...you have a right to them and I applaud you knowing and sticking to what is comfortable with you..however I would suggest ..stick to Disney..well the family oriented anyway..believe they now do real life drama now.. I don't mind drama (even real life drama) as long as there's something intellectually, socially or spiritually profitable to watching, or if the movie has other uplifting qualities. For example, in the past two years I've watched documentaries on US gang wars, prison life, the drug trade, homelessness, wildlife abuse, an orphaned chimpanzee, etc. There's usually a lot of good information and always an underlying message, "Here's what we can do about it." The documentaries leave you with the sense of "I know what I should and shouldn't do now." Also, they're much heavier on the info than on the drama, and they don't leave audiences shell shocked and in tears. If, on the other hand, the only takeaway from a movie is feelings of anger and despair, if it offers no practical advice or sense of hope, and if it can't be enjoyed as a drama where we love and empathize with the characters, what good is watching it?
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jan 28, 2015 13:16:47 GMT -5
I have seen many Clint Eastwood Movies. Gran Torino is probably the most recent one, I liked it but it was a very different movie.
I find killing and war disturbing, so I will only watch this one if DH wants me to watch it with him. I do like Eastwood's comments though. I couldn't agree more.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 28, 2015 16:12:33 GMT -5
I have not seen this movie yet- although I want to. I can't think of too many movies I didn't like with Eastwood acting or directing.
What I want to know is what set it off- and why the hell Fox is trumpeting the box office performance as some sort of comment on politics. It's a movie. That's it.
Want to make political hay about it then go after the author of the book. There are some real issues there.
Because the wacko anti-war left went over the cliff at the prospect of portraying an American soldier and the American military in a positive light. That's the answer in a nutshell.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jan 28, 2015 17:57:25 GMT -5
So why no controversy over The Hurt Locker, Zero Dark thirty, Jarhead, and all of the other war movies?
I think I need to see it before I comment further- I have heard it attempts to link 9/11 and Iraq which is a valid criticism but other than that it isn't really political is it- it is about one person and the job they had- and how it affected him.
You have a point though-
Chris Hedges, in an article titled "Killing Ragheads for Jesus," wrote that "“American Sniper” lionizes the most despicable aspects of U.S. society—the gun culture, the blind adoration of the military, the belief that we have an innate right as a “Christian” nation to exterminate the “lesser breeds” of the earth, a grotesque hypermasculinity that banishes compassion and pity, a denial of inconvenient facts and historical truth, and a belittling of critical thinking and artistic expression. Many Americans, especially white Americans trapped in a stagnant economy and a dysfunctional political system, yearn for the supposed moral renewal and rigid, militarized control the movie venerates."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Sniper_(film)_controversies
Quite a bashing from the left. I guess some people might see what they want- so again I will have to wait and see it to make a call. If it wasn't for Clint and the chair they might have just let this go.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jan 28, 2015 18:14:37 GMT -5
So why no controversy over The Hurt Locker, Zero Dark thirty, Jarhead, and all of the other war movies?
I think I need to see it before I comment further- I have heard it attempts to link 9/11 and Iraq which is a valid criticism but other than that it isn't really political is it- it is about one person and the job they had- and how it affected him.
You have a point though-
Chris Hedges, in an article titled "Killing Ragheads for Jesus," wrote that "“American Sniper” lionizes the most despicable aspects of U.S. society—the gun culture, the blind adoration of the military, the belief that we have an innate right as a “Christian” nation to exterminate the “lesser breeds” of the earth, a grotesque hypermasculinity that banishes compassion and pity, a denial of inconvenient facts and historical truth, and a belittling of critical thinking and artistic expression. Many Americans, especially white Americans trapped in a stagnant economy and a dysfunctional political system, yearn for the supposed moral renewal and rigid, militarized control the movie venerates."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Sniper_(film)_controversies
Quite a bashing from the left. I guess some people might see what they want- so again I will have to wait and see it to make a call. If it wasn't for Clint and the chair they might have just let this go.
Regarding just "the chair"...besides the fact that I personally didn't agree with Clint there..{ Hey, remember..I am a card carrying middle to the left type individual..told you all that many times here..} I was really surprised on the amaturism in his presentation..forgetting the message it self..Because of his profession..actor , writer, director, producer , former Mayor....I thought he did a sucky job in presentation...It seemed he did no pre planning, rehersal, better writing of the script...Lets face it..it was embarresing and for all of us who enjoy, admire and like the man..Yes this middle to the left one does all that..one never wants to see someone who one has respect crash and burn and on that..the chair..I believe he did..
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 4:20:31 GMT -5
So why no controversy over The Hurt Locker, Zero Dark thirty, Jarhead, and all of the other war movies?
I think I need to see it before I comment further- I have heard it attempts to link 9/11 and Iraq which is a valid criticism but other than that it isn't really political is it- it is about one person and the job they had- and how it affected him.
You have a point though-
Chris Hedges, in an article titled "Killing Ragheads for Jesus," wrote that "“American Sniper” lionizes the most despicable aspects of U.S. society—the gun culture, the blind adoration of the military, the belief that we have an innate right as a “Christian” nation to exterminate the “lesser breeds” of the earth, a grotesque hypermasculinity that banishes compassion and pity, a denial of inconvenient facts and historical truth, and a belittling of critical thinking and artistic expression. Many Americans, especially white Americans trapped in a stagnant economy and a dysfunctional political system, yearn for the supposed moral renewal and rigid, militarized control the movie venerates."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Sniper_(film)_controversies
Quite a bashing from the left. I guess some people might see what they want- so again I will have to wait and see it to make a call. If it wasn't for Clint and the chair they might have just let this go.
Regarding just "the chair"...besides the fact that I personally didn't agree with Clint there..{ Hey, remember..I am a card carrying middle to the left type individual..told you all that many times here..} I was really surprised on the amaturism in his presentation..forgetting the message it self..Because of his profession..actor , writer, director, producer , former Mayor....I thought he did a sucky job in presentation...It seemed he did no pre planning, rehersal, better writing of the script...Lets face it..it was embarresing and for all of us who enjoy, admire and like the man..Yes this middle to the left one does all that..one never wants to see someone who one has respect crash and burn and on that..the chair..I believe he did.. Not really. I enjoy admire and like Clint and wasn't embarrassed for him at all. I thought it was just fine, loved the chair, so you are not speaking for all of us. The movie was good. I'm not one for war movies at all but dh wanted to see it and I'm glad I saw it. I believe the reason it has become partisan is because Chris Kyle had no qualms about killing people. He didn't feel guilty or remorseful about it , the guilt only came to him when he wasn't there to kill more of the people that were trying to kill his fellow soldiers. He admitted he didn't feel that guilt and that the duty to protect his own was really all that mattered to him. I'm not sure many can understand that entirely and so there is the division, but I believe it was true for him. I also think this was just his nature and not necessarily because he was trained to be a killing machine. At least as portrayed in the movie. Those are just my own impressions on why it's become so divisive, could be way off, and really what doesn't become divisive anymore?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jan 29, 2015 12:31:46 GMT -5
Regarding just "the chair"...besides the fact that I personally didn't agree with Clint there..{ Hey, remember..I am a card carrying middle to the left type individual..told you all that many times here..} I was really surprised on the amaturism in his presentation..forgetting the message it self..Because of his profession..actor , writer, director, producer , former Mayor....I thought he did a sucky job in presentation...It seemed he did no pre planning, rehersal, better writing of the script...Lets face it..it was embarresing and for all of us who enjoy, admire and like the man..Yes this middle to the left one does all that..one never wants to see someone who one has respect crash and burn and on that..the chair..I believe he did.. Not really. I enjoy admire and like Clint and wasn't embarrassed for him at all. I thought it was just fine, loved the chair, so you are not speaking for all of us. The movie was good. I'm not one for war movies at all but dh wanted to see it and I'm glad I saw it. I believe the reason it has become partisan is because Chris Kyle had no qualms about killing people. He didn't feel guilty or remorseful about it , the guilt only came to him when he wasn't there to kill more of the people that were trying to kill his fellow soldiers. He admitted he didn't feel that guilt and that the duty to protect his own was really all that mattered to him. I'm not sure many can understand that entirely and so there is the division, but I believe it was true for him. I also think this was just his nature and not necessarily because he was trained to be a killing machine. At least as portrayed in the movie. Those are just my own impressions on why it's become so divisive, could be way off, and really what doesn't become divisive anymore?
"besides the fact that I personally didn't agree with Clint there" ..Of course I am not "speaking for all of us"..In fact in rereading my post I specifically mentioned that my views were my own.. As far as those feelings, it seemed that I was not alone in feeling embarressed for Clint....many felt the same way and expressed their feelings afterwards..Then there were many who felt the exact opposite..For example, the great majority of the live audience present that evening....oops..that's right , GOP convention...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 13:14:05 GMT -5
I totally believe that, mroped. Very different shooting at something alive, I would imagine. Not really.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 13:22:22 GMT -5
Not really. I enjoy admire and like Clint and wasn't embarrassed for him at all. I thought it was just fine, loved the chair, so you are not speaking for all of us. The movie was good. I'm not one for war movies at all but dh wanted to see it and I'm glad I saw it. I believe the reason it has become partisan is because Chris Kyle had no qualms about killing people. He didn't feel guilty or remorseful about it , the guilt only came to him when he wasn't there to kill more of the people that were trying to kill his fellow soldiers. He admitted he didn't feel that guilt and that the duty to protect his own was really all that mattered to him. I'm not sure many can understand that entirely and so there is the division, but I believe it was true for him. I also think this was just his nature and not necessarily because he was trained to be a killing machine. At least as portrayed in the movie. Those are just my own impressions on why it's become so divisive, could be way off, and really what doesn't become divisive anymore?
"besides the fact that I personally didn't agree with Clint there" ..Of course I am not "speaking for all of us"..In fact in rereading my post I specifically mentioned that my views were my own.. As far as those feelings, it seemed that I was not alone in feeling embarressed for Clint....many felt the same way and expressed their feelings afterwards..Then there were many who felt the exact opposite..For example, the great majority of the live audience present that evening....oops..that's right , GOP convention... You said it just really didn't mean it. Ok.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Feb 1, 2015 15:33:34 GMT -5
news.yahoo.com/texas-governor-declare-chris-kyle-day-honor-sniper-055814824.html
Well never mind the movie- now the person is being declared a hero in a slap in the face to all of the real heroes.
A liar that bragged in his book that he shot defenseless looters after Katrina from the top of the Superdome judge jury and executioner- way to go TX for electing this clown. What a shameless political move.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Feb 2, 2015 1:37:21 GMT -5
news.yahoo.com/texas-governor-declare-chris-kyle-day-honor-sniper-055814824.html
Well never mind the movie- now the person is being declared a hero in a slap in the face to all of the real heroes.
A liar that bragged in his book that he shot defenseless looters after Katrina from the top of the Superdome judge jury and executioner- way to go TX for electing this clown. What a shameless political move.
If you had a page number for that I would be real interested in seeing it.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Feb 2, 2015 13:18:43 GMT -5
My bad- that didn't make it into the book- he was just bragging about it to other people. But look at the good side- he didn't do it- he's just a liar. No reason he shouldn't get his own day of honor
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 2, 2015 14:39:45 GMT -5
My bad- that didn't make it into the book- he was just bragging about it to other people. But look at the good side- he didn't do it- he's just a liar. No reason he shouldn't get his own day of honor
I had to comb the Internet to find out what on Earth you were talking about. www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairsI read the entire thing. Wow. What a mess of good, bad, up, down, hero, villain, soldier, and psychotic. I see now why this is such a controversy.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Feb 2, 2015 15:14:54 GMT -5
I am just thinking of all the other soldiers from TX that died over there doing heroic things, not to mention the ones from Vietnam, WW2, etc. etc. that didn't get a personal day honoring them.
Yet this guy- of questionable character, that made it back, now gets his own personal day of honor because of a popular movie and because Abbot wants to stroke off the base for some political points. It is an insult to actual heroes.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 2, 2015 15:29:19 GMT -5
People who get honored aren't necessarily perfect people. Who here would agree with me that Martin Luther King deserves his day of honor? I can't do any research here at work, but I'm certain I'm remember he was found to have committed plagerism is college. I'm also certain I remember talk of several extra-marital affairs. Just because neither man was perfect doesn't mean they don't deserve to be honored.
I would also suggest that only Texas - his home state - is declaring the day as his. It's not like it's a national holiday and nothing to get all bent out of shape over.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Feb 2, 2015 15:34:18 GMT -5
Was the president drunk too? He must drink a lot.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Feb 2, 2015 15:50:04 GMT -5
My bad- that didn't make it into the book- he was just bragging about it to other people. But look at the good side- he didn't do it- he's just a liar. No reason he shouldn't get his own day of honor
I had to comb the Internet to find out what on Earth you were talking about. www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairsI read the entire thing. Wow. What a mess of good, bad, up, down, hero, villain, soldier, and psychotic. I see now why this is such a controversy. Just read that- good article- too bad the movie left a lot of things out especially the end. That's a real tragedy- of course it would just make it that much harder to watch.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 2, 2015 16:06:16 GMT -5
I had to comb the Internet to find out what on Earth you were talking about. www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairsI read the entire thing. Wow. What a mess of good, bad, up, down, hero, villain, soldier, and psychotic. I see now why this is such a controversy. Just read that- good article- too bad the movie left a lot of things out especially the end. That's a real tragedy- of course it would just make it that much harder to watch. i wonder if when they finish the Atlas Shrugged series they will show John Galt working in the SW desert for minimum wage.
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Post by Value Buy on Feb 2, 2015 20:02:56 GMT -5
American Sniper has surpassed Saving Private Ryan, as the largest grossing war themed movie, and is the third ranked money grossing R rated movie in history. I suggest EVT1 spend the ten dollars and see it. Then respond here.
I do not believe the movie portrayed him as the all American hero. It showed faults with his character.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Feb 2, 2015 20:45:15 GMT -5
I'll wait till it is on cable or stream it. Not the kind of movie I would go to a theater to see.
Might want to pass that along to Abbot about the hero thing- evidently he's the best thing since Audie Murphy.
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Post by Blonde Granny on Feb 2, 2015 20:52:09 GMT -5
So enjoy the movie and don't pay attention to that crap. It's that easy. I honestly do not know all that is being said. I heard Michael Moore had some comments that people took exception to and responded to. Why anybody cares what he has to say is beyond me, but then I don't really pay much attention to celebrities and what they have to say. I don't think you really have to point out to anybody - except maybe a 5 year old - that his job couldn't have been performed without some lasting affects. Some of the things he did were not "made for television" things. They can't be prettied up. I would guess that's the problem some of these mouth pieces have. Frankly, it IS disturbing. Killing a kid and his mother who were trying to blow up your entire platoon can't be that easy nor is it something I imagine could ever be forgotten. If he made some stupid statements along the way, I agree with you, that just makes him human like the rest of us. Go see the movie. It's worth your time. It's not a feel-good movie and you won't come out of there with a smile on your face, but it's most definitely worth your time. Go see the movie. When my wife and I did, at the end of the movie, the audience was totally silent. No one opened a cellphone. No one talked I had tears in my eyes well before the final scenes.
My wife, who is strong liberal Democrat, said in the car, one of the best movies in years.
This is not a war movie. If you saw Gran Torino a few years back, from Clint Eastwood, understood the underlying themes and felt it was decent, you will love this one. Eastwood is definitely good behind the camera.
We saw the movie Saturday, and the audience reacted the same way. Absolute silence and everyone stayed in their seats until the last credit was shown on the scene.
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Post by Value Buy on Feb 2, 2015 20:53:40 GMT -5
I'll wait till it is on cable or stream it. Not the kind of movie I would go to a theater to see.
Might want to pass that along to Abbot about the hero thing- evidently he's the best thing since Audie Murphy. I imagine Audie Murphy and Sergeant York had their bad moments in battle too. It's just that back fifty years ago, the movie industry would never show that aspect.
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Post by Value Buy on Feb 2, 2015 20:55:35 GMT -5
Incidently, the movie depicting Sergeant York was similar to a movie about an American Sniper. He used old verbal hunting calls to get the German's to pop their head up above the trenches show he could shoot them.
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Post by mroped on Feb 3, 2015 11:10:38 GMT -5
Not really. I enjoy admire and like Clint and wasn't embarrassed for him at all. I thought it was just fine, loved the chair, so you are not speaking for all of us. The movie was good. I'm not one for war movies at all but dh wanted to see it and I'm glad I saw it. I believe the reason it has become partisan is because Chris Kyle had no qualms about killing people. He didn't feel guilty or remorseful about it , the guilt only came to him when he wasn't there to kill more of the people that were trying to kill his fellow soldiers. He admitted he didn't feel that guilt and that the duty to protect his own was really all that mattered to him. I'm not sure many can understand that entirely and so there is the division, but I believe it was true for him. I also think this was just his nature and not necessarily because he was trained to be a killing machine. At least as portrayed in the movie. Those are just my own impressions on why it's become so divisive, could be way off, and really what doesn't become divisive anymore?
No matter how well you get trained or the motivation behind doing it, a person that doesn't feel remorse after taking a life feeling perfectly detached from it, suffers of some kind of psychological disorder. Yes, his actions saved lives but at the cost of taking other lives. War as it may be, there was still no definitive proof of guilt of those that he shot. A normal human being feels the guilt of taking another life and that's that!
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 3, 2015 11:40:02 GMT -5
I agree that one probably couldn't be perfectly detached, but I would definitely disagree when you say that a normal person has to feel guilt. I don't think that's true at all. Why would one feel guilty for killing someone who was intent on harming him or his family? I would imagine a whole lot of feelings emerge, but I certainly don't think guilt has to be one of them for a person to me "normal".
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EVT1
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Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
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Post by EVT1 on Feb 3, 2015 12:29:23 GMT -5
I agree that one probably couldn't be perfectly detached, but I would definitely disagree when you say that a normal person has to feel guilt. I don't think that's true at all. Why would one feel guilty for killing someone who was intent on harming him or his family? I would imagine a whole lot of feelings emerge, but I certainly don't think guilt has to be one of them for a person to me "normal". Of course you could say the same thing about the Iraqi soldiers.......Just saying......I didn't see Iraq sending troops over here to threaten my family- so who was threatening who? So why did we go into their country again?
I'd say Kyle is just another victim of Bush/Cheney when you get down to it.
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