This weekend was hard on this Republican

[weltschmerz]

Tenn, steff, and Weltz are as socially left-leaning as any sane person can get.

Oh? I support the death penalty in certain cases, have guns and am very anti illegal immigration.

At least you called me sane, so I guess that counts for something.

That list tells me you have way to much time on your hands, Virgil.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 28, 2015 23:36:16 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 28, 2015 21:27:16 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

it is great to see you get creative.  first you fabricate an assessment, then you appraise posters according to the fabricated assessment, then you average that fabrication.

genius.  if you ever decide to go to work in the media, i would recommend Breitbart for you.

So make up own table based on your own perceptions and show us how things really are. All you have to do is quote my post and change the numbers in the table.

The numbers I published are the median and the weighted median, not the averages.

are you insane? I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER do such a thing, Virgil.

no, I would administer a test that is more or less objective. that is the only way to eliminate bias.

I already said that. and it doesn't matter what you published, your bias is still in there.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 28, 2015 23:51:33 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 28, 2015 21:35:20 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

we could do an actual study that didn't involve your personal bias, if you would like.

i am betting that if we did that, the board would be very close to zero if you eliminate me.

Propose away. As long as it measures what posters say rather than what they think, and it doesn't rely on Internet "where are you on the political spectrum" surveys or test instruments that rely on subjective self-evaluation, I'm all for it.

are you claiming that what people say is not the product of what they think?

how did you get there?

[djAdvocate]

Jan 29, 2015 2:06:08 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 29, 2015 1:52:47 GMT -5 dondub said:

Obama no where near conservative? Who had the lowest income tax rates since Ike. That close isn't it?

Balanced budgets and belt-tightening are conservative. Lower taxes are sometimes included, but they include commensurate cuts in spending.

In my home province of Alberta, the Conservatives are the party people elect if deficits are getting out of control and need to be reined in. The Liberals are the party people elect if they want government to spend money like drunken sailors on things like cell phones for the poor, tuition for college students, and expanded healthcare programs in spite of record deficits.

those are arbitrary, self imposed standards of "conservative".  by your standard Reagan was a liberal.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 29, 2015 14:21:43 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jan 28, 2015 23:51:33 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Propose away. As long as it measures what posters say rather than what they think, and it doesn't rely on Internet "where are you on the political spectrum" surveys or test instruments that rely on subjective self-evaluation, I'm all for it.

are you claiming that what people say is not the product of what they think?

how did you get there?

By the fact that a poster Q who thinks X, Y, and Z, will passionately declare X 1,000 times, passively state Y 100 times, and never mention Z.

Q the poster is defined by what Q says, not what Q thinks. If I'm a hard core anarchist and I've simply never stated my love of anarchy, the only sensible course of action is to engage me as though I'm not a hard core anarchist. The Virgil you know, and the Virgil that table is meant to characterize, is Virgil the online poster. You construct a profile and deal with his arguments based on the parameters of his "persona".

I'd like to think my persona is a close reflection of my true character, but like Tall I often find the subjects I debate and the sides I take dictated by the whims of the board. Tall is a good example of taking the man-to-persona disconnect to an extreme since his persona rates a -0.7 on the political spectrum (due to factors he's explained) while his actual ideology, much of which he never mentions, might well rate positive.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 29, 2015 14:20:05 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Tenn, steff, and Weltz are as socially left-leaning as any sane person can get.

Oh? I support the death penalty in certain cases, have guns and am very anti illegal immigration.

At least you called me sane, so I guess that counts for something.

That list tells me you have way to much time on your hands, Virgil.

Your persona has never supported the death penalty, said anything favourable about guns, or expressed misgivings about illegal immigration.

As I said to DJ, that's how "the table" works. If you're a hard core gumm'int hatin' redneck living in a bomb shelter so the commies don't get you, great. "Weltz" is a borderline anti-American, free lovin', regulation lovin', pot smokin', gay praisin', hear-me-roarin', religion-hatin' disembowler of all things conservative, and damn proud of it.

[weltschmerz]

Jan 29, 2015 15:03:03 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 29, 2015 14:20:05 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Oh? I support the death penalty in certain cases, have guns and am very anti illegal immigration.

At least you called me sane, so I guess that counts for something.

That list tells me you have way to much time on your hands, Virgil.

Your persona has never supported the death penalty, said anything favourable about guns, or expressed misgivings about illegal immigration.

As I said to DJ, that's how "the table" works. If you're a hard core gumm'int hatin' redneck living in a bomb shelter so the commies don't get you, great. "Weltz" is a borderline anti-American, free lovin', regulation lovin', pot smokin', gay praisin', hear-me-roarin', religion-hatin' disembowler of all things conservative, and damn proud of it.

Now you're getting it! 

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 29, 2015 3:42:52 GMT -5 Opti said:

Tall claims that he was characterizing the shift to the middle as a positive thing, but that doesn't make sense in the context of his previous statements (re Republicans being "so far-right at this point that it would be disastrous" to elect one). Dark clearly interprets the "move to the middle" statement the same way I did, since his response is "Bingo. Pres. Obama is too much like Pres. Bush." Unless a shift right is a shift away from Pres. Bush, he obviously had the same interpretation that I did: that Tall was bemoaning the Democrats' shift from left to center under Pres. Clinton.

TG said Clinton's shift to the middle was good. I think what he means about Republicans

shift to the right now is the extreme focus on social issues that was nowhere near as

prevalent even twenty years ago.

The "shift" is in society, my good Optimist. The GOP's increasing disconnect from society (socially, at any rate) is that it's staying put (i.e. espousing social conservatism) while America is throwing wide its arms to behaviours that were unthinkable decades ago.

In some cases conservative parties have shifted right as a reaction to an endless pressure to move left, but 90% of the "GOP moving right" is in fact society moving left. There's a great apostasy from Christianity (and religion in genera), balanced budgets, pacifism, bipartisanship, personal responsibility, etc., and the shift is starting to creep into class warfare, race warfare, gender warfare, degradation of nationalism, and lack of identity. And we ain't seen nothin' yet. This is the tip top of the iceberg.

[weltschmerz]

Jan 29, 2015 15:17:07 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 29, 2015 3:42:52 GMT -5 Opti said:

TG said Clinton's shift to the middle was good. I think what he means about Republicans

shift to the right now is the extreme focus on social issues that was nowhere near as

prevalent even twenty years ago.

The "shift" is in society, my good Optimist. The GOP's increasing disconnect from society (socially, at any rate) is that it's staying put (i.e. espousing social conservatism) while America is throwing wide its arms to behaviours that were unthinkable decades ago.

In some cases conservative parties have shifted right as a reaction to an endless pressure to move left, but 90% of the "GOP moving right" is in fact society moving left. There's a great apostasy from Christianity (and religion in genera), balanced budgets, pacifism, bipartisanship, personal responsibility, etc., and the shift is starting to creep into class warfare, race warfare, gender warfare, degradation of nationalism, and lack of identity. And we ain't seen nothin' yet. This is the tip top of the iceberg.

Every generation in the past has been guilty of whining about that.

"OMG! She's showing her ankles!"

There was a time when even table legs had to be covered with cloth "to prevent a stirring in the loins."

[billisonboard]

Jan 29, 2015 15:17:07 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

...

... society moving left. ...

AKA The Enlightenment 2.0

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 29, 2015 15:23:05 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jan 29, 2015 15:17:07 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

The "shift" is in society, my good Optimist. The GOP's increasing disconnect from society (socially, at any rate) is that it's staying put (i.e. espousing social conservatism) while America is throwing wide its arms to behaviours that were unthinkable decades ago.

In some cases conservative parties have shifted right as a reaction to an endless pressure to move left, but 90% of the "GOP moving right" is in fact society moving left. There's a great apostasy from Christianity (and religion in genera), balanced budgets, pacifism, bipartisanship, personal responsibility, etc., and the shift is starting to creep into class warfare, race warfare, gender warfare, degradation of nationalism, and lack of identity. And we ain't seen nothin' yet. This is the tip top of the iceberg.

Every generation in the past has been guilty of whining about that.

"OMG! She's showing her ankles!"

There was a time when even table legs had to be covered with cloth "to prevent a stirring in the loins."

And now we life in a society where girls "twerk" in public and post it online to the delight of pedophiles, 60% of the population is STD infected, 1.2 million unwanted children are aborted every year, and best estimates are that one in four women will be raped in her lifetime.

Welcome to enlightenment 2.0. And it's just getting started.

[Tennesseer]

OldCoyote: I didn't even make the list, that means that I'm dead center.

Pssh.

When my very biased mind looked at your posts, I had no choice but to rate you a +5.8.  But a +5.8 would have thrown the line chart I was creating way out of whack. So I couldn't use you.

Come to the dark side.  

[Tennesseer]

Now back to the original subject of this thread.

In the National Review, (Charles C.W.) Cooke wrote that Palin had picked another path.

“Having been mercilessly and unjustly pilloried by the media throughout the 2008 campaign, Sarah Palin had a clear choice in its aftermath: She could sober up and prove the buggers wrong, or she could collapse into ignominious pasquinade,” he wrote. “Sadly, she chose the latter. The rest of us should choose to move on.”

Palin’s speech draws fire from the right

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I'll take Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Ben Carson, Rand Paul, Herman Cain, Allen West and just about any other TEA Party conservative over any lamestream elitist GOP leadership pick.

[zibazinski]

When republicans learn to stay out of peoples personal lives and concentrate on jobs and the economy, they'll finally figure it out.

[mmhmm]

With time comes change. So it has been since life began and so it will be until life ends. One can adapt or go down screaming defiance. Change is inevitable.

[Deleted]

Jan 29, 2015 10:34:08 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Centrist: Lukewarm conservative or liberal that lacks the courage of their convictions to state what they actually believe on an issue because they're either ill-informed on the issues and it's a way to sound 'smart' at cocktail parties, or they simply do not like conflict and/or have a need to please people.

I guess it's escaped your list of possibilities that a "Centrist" could also be someone that's "Left" on some things, "Right" on others, and over-all generally Centered and in balance.

[Tennesseer]

We need to go back to determining innocence or guilt with tests like ordeal by water. Throw the suspected bad person into a pond or lake. If they sink and drown, then they were, unfortunately, innocent. But if they float, then they are guilty as sin. Hold a trial and find them guilty because they floated. Then off to prison or death by lethal injection.

I miss the good old judgmental days. Far more entertaining than today.

[dondub]

Sorry Richard. The extremist rightwing orthodoxy doesn't allow that. You are simply ignorant or a communist if you don't agree with their criteria, policies, and agenda.

[Deleted]

As I said, it escapes their attention.

[deziloooooo]

Jan 29, 2015 17:45:59 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I'll take Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Ben Carson, Rand Paul, Herman Cain, Allen West and just about any other TEA Party conservative over any lamestream elitist GOP leadership pick.

I beieve I read where alan West has moved..to Texas I believe ....possible looking for a friendlier climate politically....possible continue his quest to get back to Washington..

[Tennesseer]

Jan 29, 2015 20:02:20 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Jan 29, 2015 17:45:59 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I'll take Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Ben Carson, Rand Paul, Herman Cain, Allen West and just about any other TEA Party conservative over any lamestream elitist GOP leadership pick.

I beieve I read where alan West has moved..to Texas I believe ....possible looking for a friendlier climate politically....possible continue his quest to get back to Washington..

Good memory.

Allen West Appointed To Head Up Right Wing Texas Think Tank

[tallguy]

Centrist: Lukewarm conservative or liberal that lacks the courage of their convictions to state what they actually believe on an issue because they're either ill-informed on the issues and it's a way to sound 'smart' at cocktail parties, or they simply do not like conflict and/or have a need to please people.

Just like most of your other posts: Wrong on every count.

We can play along though.  What word would you use for:

...someone that's "Left" on some things, "Right" on others, and over-all generally Centered and in balance.

[tallguy]

Jan 29, 2015 1:47:41 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 29, 2015 0:31:58 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Okay, you've convinced me.  I take it back.  You're not that bright, and you really don't see distinctions.  Let me make an analogy that should be exactly on point.

I am physically comfortable at a temperature of 70 degrees.  If someone moves the thermostat from 50 to 60 I am happy about that.  I think of it as a positive thing.  I also consider it dangerous if someone else wants to set it at 125. 

Get it now?   

Every indication from your exchange with Dark is that you agree the Democrats and Republicans have concertedly moved too far right. Since Pres. Obama and the Democrats are nowhere near conservative--either socially or economically--the only reasonable inference is that the point on the spectrum you gentlemen collectively define as "the center", where the Democrats are sitting now, is in fact left of center.

Furthermore, since Pres. Bush was right of Pres. Obama, if you agree with Dark that Pres. Obama is too much like Pres. Bush, the obvious implication is that you'd prefer Pres. Obama to move even further left than where he is now.

I somehow missed this earlier.  No.  No, no, no.  I even used numbers and everything to demonstrate it.  Aren't you an engineer of some type?  Aren't numbers familiar to you?  Do I need a line graph?

The Democrats have moved closer to me.  They are still left of me.  (And yes, they are still left of center.  That is kind of the point of saying that they moved TOWARD the center.)  The Republicans have moved right.  FAR right.  (And yes, that does translate primarily to social issues.)

As a general rule, and using a scale of 0-100 as the left-right political spectrum, I think the Democratic Party as a whole should sit in the 30-35 range, with individual Democrats ranging from about 15-55.  The Republican Party as a whole should sit in the 65-70 range, with individual Republicans ranging from about 45-85.  There should be a new party for the extreme ranges on both sides.  By trying to embrace the fringe, the existing parties risk making themselves a joke.  If they try to include everything, they stand for nothing.  If we also had a new centrist party, focusing on being socially liberal and fiscally conservative, we could have the Democrats and Republicans at the outside end of the aforementioned ranges.  What the Republicans have effectively done, which is to chase off most of the more moderate voices in the party, is not a positive for this country.     

[Value Buy]

Jan 30, 2015 7:19:26 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Of course if we get just a wee bit less colloquial in our discussion, the entire American mainstream political spectrum is tilted to the right when viewed in relation to that of most developed countries.

Might be true, but then we are number one for a reason

[billisonboard]

Jan 30, 2015 8:38:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jan 30, 2015 7:19:26 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Of course if we get just a wee bit less colloquial in our discussion, the entire American mainstream political spectrum is tilted to the right when viewed in relation to that of most developed countries.

Might be true, but then we are number one for a reason

Geography?

[Value Buy]

Jan 30, 2015 9:41:58 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jan 30, 2015 8:38:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Might be true, but then we are number one for a reason

Maybe, but the American Century is over.

Spoken like a true Dem.

As long as we coddle the non-productive and let them live off the 1 percenters, it might be true, but I think we shall see a slowdown in give aways.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 30, 2015 7:19:26 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Of course if we get just a wee bit less colloquial in our discussion, the entire American mainstream political spectrum is tilted to the right when viewed in relation to that of most developed countries.

You mean like Europe?

The land where unemployment percentages could double as highway speed limits, native populations are shrinking so rapidly that unassimilated first-generation immigrants are set to become majority nation states in the span of a generation, a shaky coalition of insolvent countries is held together by a lone producing nation, and governments are so corrupt that secessionist movements with 10%, 20%, even 30% popular support are popping up like daisies?

Yeah, I guess they are further to the left than the US.

[weltschmerz]

Jan 30, 2015 8:38:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jan 30, 2015 7:19:26 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Of course if we get just a wee bit less colloquial in our discussion, the entire American mainstream political spectrum is tilted to the right when viewed in relation to that of most developed countries.

Might be true, but then we are number one for a reason

Number One in what, exactly?

[Angel!]

Jan 30, 2015 11:41:36 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 30, 2015 7:19:26 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Of course if we get just a wee bit less colloquial in our discussion, the entire American mainstream political spectrum is tilted to the right when viewed in relation to that of most developed countries.

You mean like Europe?

The land where unemployment percentages could double as highway speed limits, native populations are shrinking so rapidly that unassimilated first-generation immigrants are set to become majority nation states in the span of a generation, a shaky coalition of insolvent countries is held together by a lone producing nation, and governments are so corrupt that secessionist movements with 10%, 20%, even 30% popular support are popping up like daisies?

Yeah, I guess they are further to the left than the US.

Or Canada - their public healthcare system & year-long, paid maternity leaves puts them further left than the US as well.