stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Jan 18, 2015 16:58:17 GMT -5
Sorry, this posted without my post. Not sure why so here it goes:
DS1 has a 4 year degree in Computer Science. He graduated with a 3.3GPA about 7 months ago and still doesn't have a job. He moved back home with me but I only provide basic support (food that I buy for the rest of the family, cell phone, roof over his head, internet connection).I have given him recommended books to read on getting a job, recommended going to the State Job Center for classes, etc. I can see his self esteem falling (and it should). I am unwilling to continue to support him in any manner as its unhealthy for him and feel its time to 'fish or cut bait'. This is a young man who put himself thru school with minimal help from me and very few student loans. He does not party, drink, or go out (I actually think socializing would help him).
I informed him that, due to his inability to get a job or take advantage of the training to find a job, the military recruiting office is in his future next week.
Anyone have any ideas on what to look for, the ins and outs of going into the military with a 4 year degree, etc?Anyone BTDT?
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jan 18, 2015 18:01:11 GMT -5
congrats
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jan 18, 2015 18:51:24 GMT -5
I've heard from some people that Officer Candidate School (OCS) is pretty selective, and the military has been cutting back on the hiring of officers. Really it just depends if the military is looking for the skills he has.
I'm sure he could get something, but he might have to go in as enlisted.
The military isn't for everyone. Can he meet the physical requirements? What about dealing with the culture?
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Jan 18, 2015 19:42:05 GMT -5
That is the unknown. With a few weeks work, he can handle the physical. But I'm really hoping he can handle the culture. He is very introverted and somewhat geeky. But he has to get out of the house and use his degree. This is the best I can come up with.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jan 18, 2015 20:11:41 GMT -5
Your description of your son sounds like my DD1, just change gender and major to engineering. We were about to charge her rent, and her student loan grace period was soon to end, all with no job in sight. Then she saw a link on indeed.com that fired her up: cryptology with the Navy. She contacted the recruiter (herself!), researched it, learned her options, found a forum about boot camp experiences. She ultimately decided to enlist rather than go in as an officer, since that was the only was she could be guaranteed she would get the cryptology assignment she wanted. At the time she signed up, there was no student loan payoff offer; a few months later while still waiting for boot camp to begin, a new offer of student loan payoffs came out for new enlistees. She tried to get into that program thru her recruiter, but it was too late - she'd already enlisted without it. That was her one big mistake, not waiting for a good sign on perk.
She had to wait about six months for boot camp - it is called DEP, delayed enrollment program (or something like that) - there are so many enrolling. While waiting she began training, which was amazing, since she is a complete bookworm and non-athletic. While in boot camp she had a stress fracture, so she spent a few extra months in boot camp while she healed and waited out the proscribed treatment routine. She passed all the tests, physical and training, I've never seen her so determined. Timing is everything; due to the delays at boot camp, she missed the window of time for the Korean A School assignments, but the next session to begin in A School was Chinese language, which was just as acceptable to her, so she was happy. She spent 18 months at A School learning Chinese, including a month of immersion training in Taiwan. Now she is based in Hawaii.
She has definitely found her niche, and no one would ever have predicted that our quiet, unathletic, intellectual daughter who questions everything would enjoy military life, but she does.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jan 18, 2015 20:35:57 GMT -5
That is tough one. I would not think military, but teen persuasion had a good example.
Is there any help from his school career center ? My son was having trouble with his job hunt then he found his job through LinkedIn. There is not a lot of entry level stuff there though
Good luck!
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jan 18, 2015 21:55:57 GMT -5
With his computer-science background, he should have a good chance of finding an interesting career in the enlisted ranks. The military services and the DoD are focusing on a lot of areas where his skills would be in demand, areas like cyber terrorism, command and control, secure communications, and even things like databases and cloud computing. The officer corps would not have as many opportunities to use his skills, and unless he has a lot of extracurricular leadership-type activities in his background, he would probably not be as competitive as someone with those activities.
If he didn't want to stay in for a full career, with the training and experience he would get, he would still have a lot of opportunities as a civilian with the military services or the DoD or other agencies, especially as he would then have veteran's preference.
I would recommend talking to the Air Force, but I'm biased having served in the Air Force myself, which led to a wonderful career I never would have had if I hadn't done that first.
Also, Air Force basic training is not as awful as the other services' basic training. It's still awful, just less awful.
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Jan 18, 2015 23:14:03 GMT -5
This is exactly the information I'm looking for. I really appreciate it! Keep any and all help coming. And thanks for not flaming me for preparing to boot the kid out of the house and into the military. Of course, he can chose not to go. But he won't be staying here either. I think he'll go. He has expressed an interest several times about the military to 'see if he can do it'. Well, now is his chance.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 23:28:46 GMT -5
Is the degree from an accredited college or is it from a for profit school? What is his college's placement office doing to help find a job? It sounds more to me like he is not even looking rather than there are no jobs. Personally, I see no reason to go into the military as enlisted and essentially admit that the 4 years in college were simply a waste of money. I would put much more pressure on him to actually look for a job and to be talking to his school's placement office every day.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 18, 2015 23:53:33 GMT -5
There are a lot of good job opportunities in the military and he can certain work to minimize the odds of being sent to a war zone and being killed or seriously injured.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jan 19, 2015 9:33:41 GMT -5
Is the degree from an accredited college or is it from a for profit school? What is his college's placement office doing to help find a job? It sounds more to me like he is not even looking rather than there are no jobs. Personally, I see no reason to go into the military as enlisted and essentially admit that the 4 years in college were simply a waste of money. I would put much more pressure on him to actually look for a job and to be talking to his school's placement office every day.
This is a common misconception. The modern military services require a much better educated cohort in the enlisted ranks than in the past. There are a lot of very sharp, well-educated people serving successfully and productively in the enlisted ranks. People with the right skills and work ethic have jobs that many civilians would envy in terms of the skills and responsibility involved.
Contrary to what the sensationalist press would have you believe, the enlisted ranks are not poorly compensated, either. It's like any other profession. When you first start out, your compensation is in the lower range, but as you gain experience and take on more responsibilities (and this can happen fairly quickly for the really sharp people), your compensation increases. With the additional allowances and benefits, enlisted compensation is very competitive. The stories you read about enlisted people being too poor to buy food or being eligible for food stamps involve a tiny portion of very low-ranking enlisted folks who decided that combining the salary of their initial low rank with bad money management, marriage, and children was a good idea.
I worked in a DoD agency for 35 years. I worked with and trained a lot of enlisted folks. Most of them were sharp, hard working, and dedicated. Many had college degrees, some had Master's degrees. They were not in any way overqualified for the work they were doing. There are great jobs in the enlisted ranks of the military services that demand a high level of skill and training and are well compensated and command respect.
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Jan 19, 2015 12:10:25 GMT -5
Isn't there a shortage of computer programmers? Isn't Microsoft trying to be able to hire foreign workers for this?
Can he not get a job or can he not get a job that pays decent?
My husband who is in the industry was always amazed at the salary asks of students right out of university.
Get out and network - that is where the jobs are. Not on employment websites. Our city has social events for networkign in the industry. Also have some neat IT startup garages with experienced people mentoring.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 12:23:50 GMT -5
From the GOArmy website: www.goarmy.com/benefits/money/basic-pay-active-duty-soldiers.html
. I know law firms that pay secretaries with a degree right out of college more that this chart shows a Staff Seargeant E6 making. I am not saying that is right but it is reality.
Now, if you can go in as an officer, the pay is obviously different but no one should think that an enlistee in the first couple of years will be making $40 to 50,000. And the starting pay for the average computer science major from a decent school would be that or significantly more. I know good engineering schools where the average starting pay for new engineering and computer science grads is closer to $60 to 70,000.
Obviously, the value of benefits can be added to military pay but I don't think that anyone here would call $2500 a month good money after someone spent 4 years earning a computer science degree. All of that being said, the military needs good people and I certainly appreciate their dedication and willingness to defend all of us. I hope the OP's son finds his way.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 19, 2015 12:41:23 GMT -5
From the GOArmy website: www.goarmy.com/benefits/money/basic-pay-active-duty-soldiers.html
. I know law firms that pay secretaries with a degree right out of college more that this chart shows a Staff Seargeant E6 making. I am not saying that is right but it is reality.
Now, if you can go in as an officer, the pay is obviously different but no one should think that an enlistee in the first couple of years will be making $40 to 50,000. And the starting pay for the average computer science major from a decent school would be that or significantly more. I know good engineering schools where the average starting pay for new engineering and computer science grads is closer to $60 to 70,000.
Obviously, the value of benefits can be added to military pay but I don't think that anyone here would call $2500 a month good money after someone spent 4 years earning a computer science degree. All of that being said, the military needs good people and I certainly appreciate their dedication and willingness to defend all of us. I hope the OP's son finds his way. You do realize that their living expenses are covered, right? I would take $2500/mo starting out, if I had my room, board and work uniform paid. Those expenses alone are worth at least $1000/mo. I don't believe that military pays any healthcare insurance premiums either. That means that they are walking into a position inexperienced at around $40k. Hell, it is more than what I made starting out (yes, with a 4 year STEM degree), and my living expenses were not covered! The OP's son has had no luck getting the experience he needs. If looking for months does not provide any bites, what else can he try?
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gacpa
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Post by gacpa on Jan 19, 2015 12:58:13 GMT -5
I will soon be facing these issues myself. Our son will graduate sometime this year, keeping my fingers crossed. I am hoping he will be able to find something soon. If he has to move back home, I hope it won't be for long. My hubby is going to talk to him on the way back to school today about starting to the job search.
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Jan 19, 2015 13:10:17 GMT -5
Yes, the chart shown was just for base pay. It does not include the housing allowance, food allowance, or any other pay or incentive. There are no premiums for health care either. Now an unmarried junior enlisted soldier would be living in the barracks and eating at the chow hall, but they typically live near work so they can often get away with not having a car either. When you take that into consideration the average enlistee who is 18, 19, or 20 is getting fantastic compensation for their skill level.
My husband is an Army Officer and the pay is better, but it is a different experience. He will be the first to say that going the enlisted route can be the right thing for many people. It depends on your interests and what you want to do each day at work. Most enlisted people I know have a degree, but most of them got them from degree factories. Education is a requirement for anyone to be competitive in the military.
The OPs kid might find that going in enlisted in order to guarantee working with computers can be a good way to launch a federal job after the initial enlistment is over. Committing to the military is a serious thing. You can't sign up then just decide not to show up for your report date later on. And if he agrees to go in as enlisted, then wishes he had gone in as an officer later it might be difficult or impossible to make the switch. I second the idea of waiting for a good incentive to come out before signing up, but I am not sure how good the incentives are right now. The military isn't facing the same shortage that it used to.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 19, 2015 13:28:29 GMT -5
From the GOArmy website: www.goarmy.com/benefits/money/basic-pay-active-duty-soldiers.html
. I know law firms that pay secretaries with a degree right out of college more that this chart shows a Staff Seargeant E6 making. I am not saying that is right but it is reality.
Now, if you can go in as an officer, the pay is obviously different but no one should think that an enlistee in the first couple of years will be making $40 to 50,000. And the starting pay for the average computer science major from a decent school would be that or significantly more. I know good engineering schools where the average starting pay for new engineering and computer science grads is closer to $60 to 70,000.
Obviously, the value of benefits can be added to military pay but I don't think that anyone here would call $2500 a month good money after someone spent 4 years earning a computer science degree. All of that being said, the military needs good people and I certainly appreciate their dedication and willingness to defend all of us. I hope the OP's son finds his way. Another thing to consider. While he is at home, job hunting he is getting $0 and no experience whatsoever (which is very likely what is holding him back). Even if he only enlists for 4 years, that is 4 years of experience he would not have otherwise had, gotten out on his own (albeit jumping to the government rather than jumping to mom and dad), had someone else pay his living expenses AND receive a fairly decent stipend. Good money is really relative when you are currently making $0.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jan 19, 2015 13:33:38 GMT -5
This is about choosing Officer or Enlisted.
I went into Naval Aviation in 1970 with an Electrical Engineering degree. I chose enlisted and I'm glad I did because I got the hands on work I wanted. No accelerated program so I started as an E1. I only planned to do one enlistment, this was the build up of Vietnam. Ended up staying in the reserves doing the same work I did as a civilian. Retired as a Chief Petty Officer E7. No complaints and a nice retirement check and Tricare medical benefits for me and my wife.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Jan 19, 2015 15:16:48 GMT -5
With a CS degree, I'd say that the Air Force would offer the most opportunities. If he doesn't decide to make a career at that, he can then parlay it into a decent job with a defense contractor. And then he can pull a Dark. I work for a major defense contractor, doing projects for the Air Force, and a bunch of my coworkers have done it this way. Some were prior enlisted and some were officers. I'm no expert on the topic, but if I were him I'd try to become an officer if I could. Now an unmarried junior enlisted soldier would be living in the barracks and eating at the chow hall, but they typically live near work so they can often get away with not having a car either. LOL, but how many of them don't use their enlistment bonuses to buy $45k trucks, and the like? At the AFB where I have to go to on occasion for work, there sure are a lot of nice new cars in the parking lots.
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Jan 19, 2015 15:29:02 GMT -5
Very true Bob Ross.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jan 19, 2015 17:34:18 GMT -5
Another valuable result of military service: Depending on the career field and job requirements, it is very possible that he would have a TS/SCI clearance upon discharge. That can be a ticket to a lot of jobs with companies that do work for the government and military services. It wouldn't necessarily give him a leg up on a government job, but it would make the hiring process a lot shorter than for someone applying without a clearance.
Military service offers a lot of benefits in addition to being a satisfying and honorable profession.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jan 19, 2015 17:41:40 GMT -5
This is about choosing Officer or Enlisted. I went into Naval Aviation in 1970 with an Electrical Engineering degree. I chose enlisted and I'm glad I did because I got the hands on work I wanted. No accelerated program so I started as an E1. I only planned to do one enlistment, this was the build up of Vietnam. Ended up staying in the reserves doing the same work I did as a civilian. Retired as a Chief Petty Officer E7. No complaints and a nice retirement check and Tricare medical benefits for me and my wife. Not to mention that unless one has a lot of leadership-style boxes checked on one's CV, the chances of selection for officer training are rather slim. There is a certain profile they look for in officer candidates. The competition at present is fairly stiff. Not every applicant with a college degree is accepted for officer training.
There is no shame in serving in the enlisted ranks and it is definitely not a waste of an education. It is an opportunity for a great job in the military and training and experience that can lead to better opportunities afterward and open more doors than just the college degree would.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Jan 19, 2015 19:11:10 GMT -5
Why is everybody suggesting Air Force? Maybe the kid is a real man and wants to join the Marines! See you all talking about $20-30-40k and act u hapy about it. Is much better than zilch and as somebody pointed out already, is experience. Nowadays, IT skills are valuable in the military since most of everything is computerized. Talking about pay- I was drafted, mandatory service for all men 18 or above , able bodied and spun mind. Monthly pay was somewhere around $20. Yes, you read it right, there is no mistake! It says twenty dollars and no it wasn't durring the Civil War but in 1986-1988 in Eastern Europe.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Jan 19, 2015 19:13:36 GMT -5
Autocorect: "unhappy", sound not spun. $20a month would buy me about 10 packs of smokes.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jan 19, 2015 20:16:15 GMT -5
That's true and she said he was introverted. In my case I was a little older then the other enlistees and volunteered and took charge of many opportunities. I guess you could say I was informed and took advantage of all that was offered. stillmovingforward I think he should investigate the military opportunities and know exactly what is available and how to pursue his objective. I hope this is no longer true, but a quote about recruiters comes to mind. "You can tell when a recruiter is lying when his lips are moving." Honestly most try their best to match people to MOS (job specialty) but they also have a monthly recruitment objective to keep their job. He is in charge when he knows all the programs and opportunities and hasn't signed anything.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jan 19, 2015 20:19:57 GMT -5
The draft ended in 1973.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 19, 2015 20:37:47 GMT -5
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on Jan 19, 2015 21:06:00 GMT -5
Sorry, this posted without my post. Not sure why so here it goes:
DS1 has a 4 year degree in Computer Science. He graduated with a 3.3GPA about 7 months ago and still doesn't have a job. He moved back home with me but I only provide basic support (food that I buy for the rest of the family, cell phone, roof over his head, internet connection).I have given him recommended books to read on getting a job, recommended going to the State Job Center for classes, etc. I can see his self esteem falling (and it should). I am unwilling to continue to support him in any manner as its unhealthy for him and feel its time to 'fish or cut bait'. This is a young man who put himself thru school with minimal help from me and very few student loans. He does not party, drink, or go out (I actually think socializing would help him).
I am very interested in this. Why doesn't he have a job yet? Where did he get his education? Didn't the school help him with job fairs? My son is going into engineering and from what I am reading, there are a lot of graduates not getting jobs.
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Jan 20, 2015 0:19:59 GMT -5
Thank you all for your responses.
Yes, son has a 'real' degree from a state 4 year college. Jobs are still competitive, he's looking everywhere in the U.S., but is very socially awkward and 'geeky' so I don't think he is interviewing well. He is also not good at social networking. And he isn't taking advantage of the help I've tried to direct him to. I could be more demanding but, honestly, I'm still raising his siblings and he needs to 'step up' without my becoming demanding, nasty, or obnoxious.
I help hire engineers at my company and its pretty hard for someone with no experience to get in the door. Although I love the 'no experience' kids, they are easier to train but you still have no idea how they are going to handle the actual job vs school.
I've had him read everyone's answers (he is horrified I've posted his issue online) but he is appreciating the insight into his military options. It looks like he will be wandering down to the recruiters' office this week. Unless he wants to share the back porch with OMGD (oh my god dog!).
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on Jan 20, 2015 19:50:15 GMT -5
Thank you all for your responses. Yes, son has a 'real' degree from a state 4 year college. Jobs are still competitive, he's looking everywhere in the U.S., but is very socially awkward and 'geeky' so I don't think he is interviewing well. He is also not good at social networking. And he isn't taking advantage of the help I've tried to direct him to. I could be more demanding but, honestly, I'm still raising his siblings and he needs to 'step up' without my becoming demanding, nasty, or obnoxious. I help hire engineers at my company and its pretty hard for someone with no experience to get in the door. Although I love the 'no experience' kids, they are easier to train but you still have no idea how they are going to handle the actual job vs school. I've had him read everyone's answers (he is horrified I've posted his issue online) but he is appreciating the insight into his military options. It looks like he will be wandering down to the recruiters' office this week. Unless he wants to share the back porch with OMGD (oh my god dog!).
Did the school offer internships or co-ops? From my understanding, that is the new demand for college kids.
Do you think he should have gone to a better college? Would the extra expense have been worth it?
Interesting how so many here are encouraging him to enter the military. We looked at that also, but I was told my many guardsmen, reservists, and retired military to avoid doing that if at all possible.
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