8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jan 17, 2015 16:33:24 GMT -5
The idea that you could command someone with a magic word or a phrase sounds like the domain of fairy tales, but I'm not sure it is...
If you knew that someone would always respond to a certain word, phrase, reference, or general tone, would you use it? Lets say that your friend or spouse or co-worker or whatever has a hot button, and that EVERY time you brought it up, that person gave in. Would you use that phrase? How often would you use it? Would you feel bad using it, or is the person's fault for giving it power? Would you keep using it even if it was obvious the person wasn't happy about it?
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jan 17, 2015 16:59:53 GMT -5
I think I would be very careful about how often and when I used it. On the other hand there's also "the look". You're married you should know what that is by now!
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Jan 17, 2015 17:15:43 GMT -5
My mum had "THAT LOOK" down pat. She could actually shut a roomful of people up with "that look" and silence. Her eyes were different colors and she could bore those eyes into you. Mum was a force to be reckoned with.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 17, 2015 17:21:24 GMT -5
I stopped what ever I was doing which displeased her, but I never understood my mother's angry-at-me phrase, "Don't look at me in that tone of voice." Huh?
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jan 17, 2015 17:25:10 GMT -5
Such a disappointment I read the thread and thought of "safe words" while you know... bow chicka wow wow Would be interesting to read other's "safe words"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 17:34:59 GMT -5
With certain people I would use it constantly if it would never lose it's power. If it could lose it's power with over use I would pick my battles.
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Jan 17, 2015 17:39:42 GMT -5
The whole idea just sounds creepy to me.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jan 17, 2015 17:42:09 GMT -5
Such a disappointment I read the thread and thought of "safe words" while you know... bow chicka wow wow Would be interesting to read other's "safe words" "Ow ow ow!"
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 17, 2015 17:55:55 GMT -5
The idea that you could command someone with a magic word or a phrase sounds like the domain of fairy tales, but I'm not sure it is... If you knew that someone would always respond to a certain word, phrase, reference, or general tone, would you use it? Lets say that your friend or spouse or co-worker or whatever has a hot button, and that EVERY time you brought it up, that person gave in. Would you use that phrase? How often would you use it? Would you feel bad using it, or is the person's fault for giving it power? Would you keep using it even if it was obvious the person wasn't happy about it? Yes, just not in the way you describe. I know certain words highlight positive behaviors and am 100% ok with using them to try to encourage those positive behaviors. Example: "DD - I just saw how gentle you were with the kitty, it really makes me happy when you treat them so well and show caring" "DH - I can't tell you how loved I feel when you get up before me each morning to make me my coffee, it means so much to me". Ok - maybe I'm an evil bitch on the coffee front, by Mr. Captain doesn't seem to have many complaints .
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jan 17, 2015 17:59:38 GMT -5
Such a disappointment I read the thread and thought of "safe words" while you know... bow chicka wow wow Would be interesting to read other's "safe words" "Ow ow ow!" LOL
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quince
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Post by quince on Jan 17, 2015 18:29:12 GMT -5
People can certainly push the buttons of others. If you call someone something that pushes on a sore spot, you could manipulate them....or maybe just hurt them because you want to.
I try not to say hurtful things, even though my husband has a skin like tank armor. I apologize. I try not to cry when we disagree because I know he sympathizes, and that's not how I want to "win" an argument.
If someone has a vulnerability, it's not nice to use that against them. (It is also not nice to use YOUR vulnerabilities against someone else.)
I do agree with Captain about words (or actions!) that are the "carrot" type of manipulation. I say thank you a lot. I express my appreciation. "Yes" is the default answer in our household.
"Be Nice" is kind of a good thing to go with. Doing something to someone that they don't like, repeatedly, does not seem nice, unless there is a much, much better reason for it than "I wanted to."
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Jan 17, 2015 19:19:31 GMT -5
This will sound bad and it is. They know the words and use them. A couple of examples:
People who are abuser know exactly what sequence of looks, comments, body language that will render the person being abused into something where they cannot defend themselves. Then they take advantage.
The same goes for manipulators whether at carnival games, gambling, or the shopping channels. Anything to separate the mark from their money.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jan 17, 2015 20:56:20 GMT -5
Are you using the word/phrase to cause the other person to do something they don't want to do? (or refrain from doing something they want to do?) If so, using it for no better reason than because you want to (or want to "win") seems abusive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 21:23:05 GMT -5
The people that I care about, I don't deliberately push their buttons, even if I know how. I really dislike being manipulated, so I'm not really interested in doing that to people I care about, since I usually try to treat people the way I'd like to.be treated.
I did have one person in my life though, that I would deliberately push his buttons if it suited my purpose. He was a manipulator though, so I felt like I was only giving him what he deserved. At the end of the day, it was still a waste of my energy because that's not who I want to be.
I know another master manipulator and although I'm constantly astounded by that person's ability to get people to respond how and get them to do do what they want them to, I don't really want to live my life that way. I recognize how much of a useful skill it is, but I prefer for my interactions with people to be authentic and let them respond or behave in an authentic manner. that removes some doubts about that person's true feelings or intentions. Knowing exactly what I'm dealing with is more important to me in my close relationships than always getting my way through purposeful manipulation.
People I.don't care much about and that have shown themselves to be my "enemy" are fair game if I know their weak spots and I know how to get what I want from them.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 17, 2015 21:54:13 GMT -5
No. I can push buttons. I can also use my words to cut a person down to nothing in about 5 minutes. Mostly because this behavior was modeled for me.
I choose not hurt my kids.
If I want to stay married, I best not hurt my husband on purpose anymore. (In the uglier parts of our marriage, DH was so emotionally withdrawn that the only way I could get any emotion out of his was to push his buttons to the limits.)
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jan 18, 2015 8:21:03 GMT -5
A lot of interesting responses. I definitely like the angle of "positive" reinforcement, even though manipulation is still manipulation. I remember one article on a similar subject, and one woman said something like "I'll say something like 'honey I REALLY need a pair of big strong arms to tackle the job' when I want his help". Grey area...
...:::"Are you using the word/phrase to cause the other person to do something they don't want to do? (or refrain from doing something they want to do?) If so, using it for no better reason than because you want to (or want to "win") seems abusive.":::...
In many instances, yes. Although nothing truly awful like getting them to rob a bank or try cocaine. Its usually small stuff, but the feeling is still one of frustration. Its clear the person would rather not be manipulated, but in life those choices are usually made for us.
...:::"With certain people I would use it constantly if it would never lose it's power. If it could lose it's power with over use I would pick my battles.":::...
So this is what I was starting to get at. Whose fault is it that the phrase works in the first place? In the end is it the victim's fault? Do you know you are being manipulated? If you do, and you still submit, is that completely on you? Can you change the way you feel?
Certainly there ARE people who break the cycle.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Jan 18, 2015 8:32:24 GMT -5
It shows a complete lack of respect to manipulate someone in that manner. Have you tried just sitting down and having an open discussion about the manipulation and how you feel about it? I would be more worried about the lack of respect rather then the specific code word or phrases being used. I don't think I could handle being treated that way without pushing back in another unacceptable way.
I once had a boss that would believe the first story she heard and wouldn't listen to the other side or any other perspective once her mind was set. So whenever two of my coworkers got in a disagreement it was a race to get to her and tell their story first. The whole situation was ridiculous and no one had any respect for her or for each other.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 18, 2015 8:36:18 GMT -5
If you are purposefully manipulating someone, then that might work, but in the end, it will make you feel icky. Just be upfront about what you want. And, also realize that you can't control other people and they are gonna do what they want to do or not. So, playing the manipulation game really isn't worth it. Ask for what you want and then just go do it yourself.
Or, if you are talking about trying to get your kid to do something for example, I don't find that manipulation works either. At some point, everyone has to own who they are. With my older son, I have given up nagging him to do what he needs to do. Finally, I said, it's your life. If you want to get up on time for school, fine, if not, fine, then you can sit in detention hall. If you want to get to work on time, fine, if not, fine and they can fire you. Not my problem anymore. Amazing but now he actually does those things himself.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jan 18, 2015 8:54:41 GMT -5
...:::"Have you tried just sitting down and having an open discussion about the manipulation and how you feel about it? I would be more worried about the lack of respect rather then the specific code word or phrases being used.":::...
I think how this discussion goes says a lot about who you are dealing with. A reasonable person would say "I didn't know that bothered you, I'll be more careful". A selfish person would say "if you don't want to do the thing, then just don't do it!"
...:::"If you want to get up on time for school, fine, if not, fine, then you can sit in detention hall. If you want to get to work on time, fine, if not, fine and they can fire you. Not my problem anymore. Amazing but now he actually does those things himself.":::...
Things are definitely easier when there is a built-in natural consequence like detention or unemployment!
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 18, 2015 10:46:18 GMT -5
If you do, and you still submit, is that completely on you? Can you change the way you feel? You cannot change the way you feel, but you can change the way you behave. If you determine a typical interchange to not be working for you anymore, you have two choices. You can keep in the same systems and expect the same outcomes, or you can change the dance steps for your portion of the dance. I don't know that it is completely on a person who chooses to submit. It depends on the situation. Some people don't know HOW to break the cycle, and need to seek outside resources. Sometimes that takes time. For this person, no, it's not all on them. If a person chooses keep engaging with the manipulator, even though they know they have other choices, then, yes, that IS on them. I'm assuming the person being manipulated is savvy enough to understand that they are.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jan 18, 2015 14:34:22 GMT -5
If it is a phrase that you know will have a positive effect on the person, is supportive, or confident building then yes I use them. If the phrase is one that is going to break the person down, then no I don't use them. Or I should say I try not to use them, sometimes in a disagreement one may slip out, both DH and I know each others buttons, and normally when one comes out it is conversation killer since DH and I recognize them now. We will apologies for it and then try and discuss the topic again in a better manner.
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