djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2015 0:00:16 GMT -5
maybe in a week. for now it is a current event. Politics can be anytime. maybe let's try this next month then?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 1:32:42 GMT -5
maybe let's try this next month then? LOL... Well... it's not like I could move it anyway.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jan 16, 2015 1:59:50 GMT -5
Or as many of us realize, over all, not saying he's perfect...the guy is doing a pretty good job ...especially with the world being what it is.... definitely one who is a caring sort when you consider Obama care, { have to see how that really shakes out but that will be down the road..} immigration..he's trying and the opposition just does not get it.. Huh? ? ? ? ? ? Trillions of dollars wasted (projection, first 10 years), and it doesn't even do what it's supposed to (provide affordable care for all citizens). How is that "caring"? Maybe "the opposition" gets it more than you give them credit for. Just because you say trillions...where did you come up with the trillions..{plural} figure..you lost all credability there my friend..Do you have any idea of how hugh a figure a trillion is forget "Trillion.. S...
Lets see now..1,000,000,000,000..I think thats right asnd your suggesting plural of that...?? -and wasted? Which means nothing was spent on actual health care...and not sure if it was to save $ actually after the beginning of the act..{ reality did set in }Believe they were looking to cover more people with health coverage who were ineligible or not covered...never said it would cover all..100% but so many now are now happily covered..so many good stories out there...naturally if you were covered before you wouldn't appreciate what that really means but that is what POTUS job is, looking out for all of the people, not just a few special types..One of the thing liberals for the most part do vs the other guys..
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 6:50:31 GMT -5
Huh? ? ? ? ? ? Trillions of dollars wasted (projection, first 10 years), and it doesn't even do what it's supposed to (provide affordable care for all citizens). How is that "caring"? Maybe "the opposition" gets it more than you give them credit for. Just because you say trillions...where did you come up with the trillions..{plural} figure..you lost all credability there my friend..Do you have any idea of how hugh a figure a trillion is forget "Trillion.. S...
Lets see now..1,000,000,000,000..I think thats right asnd your suggesting plural of that...?? -and wasted? Which means nothing was spent on actual health care...and not sure if it was to save $ actually after the beginning of the act..{ reality did set in }Believe they were looking to cover more people with health coverage who were ineligible or not covered...never said it would cover all..100% but so many now are now happily covered..so many good stories out there...naturally if you were covered before you wouldn't appreciate what that really means but that is what POTUS job is, looking out for all of the people, not just a few special types..One of the thing liberals for the most part do vs the other guys. I got the number (Trillions) from the Congressional Budget Office. Google "cbo obamacare trillion", you will get a myriad of different numbers from different dates... all getting their information at different times from the CBO as they adjust their projections. The lowest that I saw on the first page (as Google returned the results to me, your results may vary) was 1.5 Trillion. The highest that I saw was 2.004 Trillion... so yes... "Trillions". As to all those "happy people covered" did you take into account all the ones that LOST insurance they were perfectly happy with? What about the full timers that got cut to less than full time so they wouldn't have to be covered? I bet they are awesomely happy (sarcasm). And lets not forget those covered with "insurance" that's completely worthless. Oh yeah, they have an insurance card, but, for all intents and purposes they are just as at risk as they were before... because the "insurance" doesn't do crap until they reach a $5,600 (or some other ridiculously high number) deductible... Kind of missing the "make healthcare affordable, so people won't wait until they have no choice but to seek more expensive ER services. Let's also not forget the estimated 30 Million citizens that will still be uninsured.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 16, 2015 9:25:35 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2015 10:38:49 GMT -5
Huh? ? ? ? ? ? Trillions of dollars wasted (projection, first 10 years), and it doesn't even do what it's supposed to (provide affordable care for all citizens). How is that "caring"? Maybe "the opposition" gets it more than you give them credit for. Just because you say trillions...where did you come up with the trillions..{plural} figure..you lost all credability there my friend..Do you have any idea of how hugh a figure a trillion is forget "Trillion.. S...he is projecting out 10 years, and assuming that ObamaCare does not get any tweaks, and does not help healthcare inflation. i don't think ANY of those are safe assumptions.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2015 10:40:26 GMT -5
And lets not forget those covered with "insurance" that's completely worthless. Oh yeah, they have an insurance card, but, for all intents and purposes they are just as at risk as they were before... because the "insurance" doesn't do crap until they reach a $5,600 (or some other ridiculously high number) deductible... Kind of missing the "make healthcare affordable, so people won't wait until they have no choice but to seek more expensive ER services. Let's also not forget the estimated 30 Million citizens that will still be uninsured. you keep saying this, but it is completely false. it is not worthless, Richard. my friend and his family are under CoveredCalifornia and love it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2015 10:42:38 GMT -5
the Senate Bill, which had bipartisan support, had a heavy focus on border security. one would have thought that Rand Paul, who was present for that vote, would have pointed that out.........
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 16, 2015 11:42:13 GMT -5
All any of us can do is start from where we are and go from there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 12:44:28 GMT -5
most of his increase has to do with his stand on immigration. the rest has to do with the economy. bribing students might help his future numbers, tho. Well, the stupidity of the American voter and all... Hey! Let's just lay the blame on the voters responsible for him.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2015 14:29:31 GMT -5
Well, the stupidity of the American voter and all... Hey! Let's just lay the blame on the voters responsible for him. let's start with blaming the W voters, then work forward.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 14:43:32 GMT -5
Hey! Let's just lay the blame on the voters responsible for him. let's start with blaming the W voters, then work forward. Still worried about W ? I'm thinking it's about time we get a PRESIDENT into the chief executives office, not some reactionary fool delivering long winded speeches dependent on the last liberal poll results, or the need to change the conversation after the latest gaffe.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 18:33:02 GMT -5
And lets not forget those covered with "insurance" that's completely worthless. Oh yeah, they have an insurance card, but, for all intents and purposes they are just as at risk as they were before... because the "insurance" doesn't do crap until they reach a $5,600 (or some other ridiculously high number) deductible... Kind of missing the "make healthcare affordable, so people won't wait until they have no choice but to seek more expensive ER services. Let's also not forget the estimated 30 Million citizens that will still be uninsured. you keep saying this, but it is completely false. it is not worthless, Richard. my friend and his family are under CoveredCalifornia and love it. Yay! They love it. Awesome for them. Please point out where I ever said "NO ONE is helped by Obamacare", or "NO ONE loves Obamacare"... either one (doesn't even have to be both)... thanks... I'll wait. THEIRS may not be completely worthless, and if so, I wasn't talking about them. I didn't say "everyone is covered with...", I said " lets not forget those covered with..." It's not "completely false"... I know it for a fact because I am one of them (that "$5,600 deductible" is actually MY deductible). If I've got that plan, I can guarantee that there are others with it... or worse ones (it wasn't the worst I saw, it was, however, the best I could get with the subsidy)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 18:35:14 GMT -5
Just because you say trillions...where did you come up with the trillions..{plural} figure..you lost all credability there my friend..Do you have any idea of how hugh a figure a trillion is forget "Trillion.. S...he is projecting out 10 years, and assuming that ObamaCare does not get any tweaks, and does not help healthcare inflation. i don't think ANY of those are safe assumptions. Well... technically, it's the CBO that's doing the projections... but yes, it's 10 years.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 18:36:27 GMT -5
Well, the stupidity of the American voter and all... Hey! Let's just lay the blame on the voters responsible for him. Ohhh... SO MUCH this! I think anyone that DIDN'T vote Obama should get a pass on Obama's mistakes. ETA: In fairness though, anyone that didn't vote for Bush, shouldn't be blamed for Bush's mistakes either.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 18:38:38 GMT -5
let's start with blaming the W voters, then work forward. Still worried about W ? I'm thinking it's about time we get a PRESIDENT into the chief executives office, not some reactionary fool delivering long winded speeches dependent on the last liberal poll results, or the need to change the conversation after the latest gaffe. I doubt I'll ever see that in my lifetime... and I plan to live forever.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 16, 2015 21:13:59 GMT -5
I've said for a long time that our system pretty much guarantees that anyone truly qualified will never actually run. Why would they, and put themselves through it all? Politics is a crap business, made irretrievably worse by the fact it is dominated by politicians. I don't want a "politician." I want a statesman. In my definition at least, those are VERY different things. And even for those who do win, it has now become an incredibly ugly system. That is why I would never want to be president. No, the only job I am interested in is Emperor.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2015 22:38:33 GMT -5
let's start with blaming the W voters, then work forward. Still worried about W ? worried? no. worried about his policies? absolutely.I'm thinking it's about time we get a PRESIDENT into the chief executives office, not some reactionary fool delivering long winded speeches dependent on the last liberal poll results, or the need to change the conversation after the latest gaffe. Rasmussen is considered a conservative poll, and his rating is +1 on that survey.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2015 22:39:12 GMT -5
he is projecting out 10 years, and assuming that ObamaCare does not get any tweaks, and does not help healthcare inflation. i don't think ANY of those are safe assumptions. Well... technically, it's the CBO that's doing the projections... but yes, it's 10 years. fine, you are regurgitating projections that are so far into the future, they constitute fiction.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 23:12:53 GMT -5
Well... technically, it's the CBO that's doing the projections... but yes, it's 10 years. fine, you are regurgitating projections that are so far into the future, they constitute fiction. Don't knock fiction... Remember the PADDs in Star Trek? Ever seen an iPad? Remember the communicators from the original Star Trek? Ever used a "flip phone"? Remember lasers from many Sci-Fi sources? Did you know the US Navy is putting a laser weapon on it's newest ships?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 17, 2015 0:30:16 GMT -5
you keep saying this, but it is completely false. it is not worthless, Richard. my friend and his family are under CoveredCalifornia and love it. Yay! They love it. Awesome for them. Please point out where I ever said "NO ONE is helped by Obamacare", or "NO ONE loves Obamacare"... either one (doesn't even have to be both)... thanks... I'll wait. THEIRS may not be completely worthless, and if so, I wasn't talking about them. I didn't say "everyone is covered with...", I said " lets not forget those covered with..." sorry, i read that as "let's not forget that the insurance they are carrying is completely worthless". that was another, less generous interpretation of what you said. my apologies.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 0:55:49 GMT -5
Yay! They love it. Awesome for them. Please point out where I ever said "NO ONE is helped by Obamacare", or "NO ONE loves Obamacare"... either one (doesn't even have to be both)... thanks... I'll wait. THEIRS may not be completely worthless, and if so, I wasn't talking about them. I didn't say "everyone is covered with...", I said " lets not forget those covered with..." sorry, i read that as "let's not forget that the insurance they are carrying is completely worthless". that was another, less generous interpretation of what you said. my apologies. No worries. At least when you miss one, you fess up to it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 9:56:08 GMT -5
fine, you are regurgitating projections that are so far into the future, they constitute fiction. Don't knock fiction... Remember the PADDs in Star Trek? Ever seen an iPad? Remember the communicators from the original Star Trek? Ever used a "flip phone"? Remember lasers from many Sci-Fi sources? Did you know the US Navy is putting a laser weapon on it's newest ships? And a rail gun! Go Navy!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 10:05:37 GMT -5
Still worried about W ? worried? no. worried about his policies? absolutely.I'm thinking it's about time we get a PRESIDENT into the chief executives office, not some reactionary fool delivering long winded speeches dependent on the last liberal poll results, or the need to change the conversation after the latest gaffe. Rasmussen is considered a conservative poll, and his rating is +1 on that survey. That was a statement in general. It wasn't aimed at Obama or any recent potus in particular.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 20, 2015 23:15:20 GMT -5
Hey! Let's just lay the blame on the voters responsible for him. Ohhh... SO MUCH this! I think anyone that DIDN'T vote Obama should get a pass on Obama's mistakes. ETA: In fairness though, anyone that didn't vote for Bush, shouldn't be blamed for Bush's mistakes either. So I'm good on both counts then.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 20, 2015 23:22:58 GMT -5
Well... technically, it's the CBO that's doing the projections... but yes, it's 10 years. fine, you are regurgitating projections that are so far into the future, they constitute fiction. It didn't seem to be fiction when they pushing through the ACA and how much it was going to save...nevermind that many of the savings it was taking credit for where either already in progress (i.e. electronic health records) or were based on the government cutting cost by cutting payments. But hey, those evil and rich insurance companies were making way too much money, so the government had to do something.
I still think those who pushed this through honestly pushed it through because they knew in the long run it would fail and people would want the government to step in and "do something." I'm sure the argument will also be something along the lines of "the government is already subsidizing most people because of how expensive health insurance is now. They might as well cover everything since they are covering most of it now." Conspiracy theory or not, people who think government sponsored health insurance won't have limits aren't watching other countries with it . What will likely happen is that the government will have a "base program" and secondary programs will form like the Medicare Supplement programs we have now or insurance companies will have a base program and the government will act as an umbrella coverage to limit liabilities in order to keep the cost of health insurance to more affordable rates.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 21, 2015 22:34:13 GMT -5
update: approval rating now at 16 month high, dating back to August of 2013.
PI: I disagree that the idea behind the ACA is to further subsidize something that is already subsidized. it is actually somewhat worse than that, from your perspective:
the idea is to socialize the cost across all Americans rather than just those that have insurance.
it is actually a really smart idea. it was smart when the Heritage Foundation was advocating it in the early 90's. it was smart when Gingrich floated it as a counterproposal to HillaryCare. it was smart when Romney installed in in Massachusetts. and it continued to be smart when all of those men advocated for the idea right up until the ACA passed.
then, of course, it became a bad idea.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jan 22, 2015 1:33:16 GMT -5
update: approval rating now at 16 month high, dating back to August of 2013.
PI: I disagree that the idea behind the ACA is to further subsidize something that is already subsidized. it is actually somewhat worse than that, from your perspective:
the idea is to socialize the cost across all Americans rather than just those that have insurance.
it is actually a really smart idea. it was smart when the Heritage Foundation was advocating it in the early 90's. it was smart when Gingrich floated it as a counterproposal to HillaryCare. it was smart when Romney installed in in Massachusetts. and it continued to be smart when all of those men advocated for the idea right up until the ACA passed.
then, of course, it became a bad idea. Disagree of course- it is a bad idea unless your plan is to make sure we keep creating healthcare millionaires and billionaires at the expense of our fellow citizens.
The true liberal idea is to put everyone in the risk pool and socialize the costs, not keep the current government hybrid where taxpayers cover the old, disabled, and sick (unprofitable customers) and let the private insurers have the rest.
It was a deal with the devil- we force people to buy your shitty products in trade for you to quit cherry picking customers or dropping them in the middle of a major health event.
Not trying to topic creep- but the ACA if anything is proof that Obama is Bush light. He, like the democratic party, have not the balls to stand on real reform against the big money.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 2:56:16 GMT -5
update: approval rating now at 16 month high, dating back to August of 2013.
PI: I disagree that the idea behind the ACA is to further subsidize something that is already subsidized. it is actually somewhat worse than that, from your perspective:
the idea is to socialize the cost across all Americans rather than just those that have insurance.
it is actually a really smart idea. it was smart when the Heritage Foundation was advocating it in the early 90's. it was smart when Gingrich floated it as a counterproposal to HillaryCare. it was smart when Romney installed in in Massachusetts. and it continued to be smart when all of those men advocated for the idea right up until the ACA passed.
then, of course, it became a bad idea. Nice try... but completely wrong. The idea of healthcare reform is to socialize the cost across all Americans. The ACA isn't healthcare reform. It never has been. It never will be. The ACA is, and always has been, Insurance reform.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 22, 2015 12:05:02 GMT -5
update: approval rating now at 16 month high, dating back to August of 2013.
PI: I disagree that the idea behind the ACA is to further subsidize something that is already subsidized. it is actually somewhat worse than that, from your perspective:
the idea is to socialize the cost across all Americans rather than just those that have insurance.
it is actually a really smart idea. it was smart when the Heritage Foundation was advocating it in the early 90's. it was smart when Gingrich floated it as a counterproposal to HillaryCare. it was smart when Romney installed in in Massachusetts. and it continued to be smart when all of those men advocated for the idea right up until the ACA passed.
then, of course, it became a bad idea. Nice try... but completely wrong. The idea of healthcare reform is to socialize the cost across all Americans. The ACA isn't healthcare reform. It never has been. It never will be. The ACA is, and always has been, Insurance reform. um...no.
the idea of INSURANCE reform is to do that. i never said healthcare, and if i ever have in the past, i apologize, because it is INSURANCE reform.
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