ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 7, 2015 17:01:05 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 7, 2015 17:09:27 GMT -5
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jan 7, 2015 17:12:35 GMT -5
What's her plan? To die rather than be infertile? If that is her choice... Yes! What are we going to do when she turns 18? declare her unfit? And she ran away from home after her second treatment so I am guessing this is really "her" decision.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 7, 2015 17:17:29 GMT -5
Very sad. I'm not sure how I feel. I don't know that, at age 17, I knew enough to make important decisions like this one. Some 17 year old probably are. I don't know, However, I don't think we can strike a parallel between this case and the mom who refused court ordered drug treatment. There was another person involved in the drug case - her unborn child. To me, that makes all the difference.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 7, 2015 17:26:07 GMT -5
The age of medical consent where I live is 14.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 7, 2015 17:28:02 GMT -5
Therein lies the rub, Sroo. I don't believe that, once you are pregnant, it is just your own body anymore. Just a difference of opinion.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 7, 2015 18:06:15 GMT -5
This is another tough one.
OTOH it sounds like the mom may have done some brain washing. OTOH at 17 I was pretty capable of doing some research and coming to my own conclusions.
My sis went through a round of chemo and radiation. She and I have had a discussion and she's told me that if her cancer comes back she's not going to put herself through it again. I understand and respect her decision.
What gives the government the right to decide what kind of treatment is to be forced on this individual?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 7, 2015 18:14:19 GMT -5
. .. Additionally, they claim that the state should recognize the “mature minor doctrine” that requires that a court first determine if a minor is not adequately mature enough to be allowed to make medical decisions on her own. ... (from the link) I certainly support requiring this of the court system. And if determined to be adequately mature, the individual should have control. If found not, I support court involvement in the decision process. And no Virgil, I don't have concrete standards of proof in mind for this one either.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 7, 2015 18:18:42 GMT -5
This is another tough one. OTOH it sounds like the mom may have done some brain washing. OTOH at 17 I was pretty capable of doing some research and coming to my own conclusions. My sis went through a round of chemo and radiation. She and I have had a discussion and she's told me that if her cancer comes back she's not going to put herself through it again. I understand and respect her decision. What gives the government the right to decide what kind of treatment is to be forced on this individual? My Mother made the decision, in her mid-eighties, that she would not do chemo. Understood and respected her decision. miss you Mom
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jan 7, 2015 18:21:02 GMT -5
This is a tough one. Until the girl is 18, she's not considered of legal age to make this decision. This disease has a pretty darned good survival rate if treated; especially, if caught in the early stages. This is one the courts will have to decide, obviously. It's sad this has happened to the poor girl.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jan 7, 2015 19:03:42 GMT -5
But why should the court have to decide this. A person of this age has already been given rights to their own healthcare decisions. Why is chemo any different from abortion and birth control. Which by the way would be allowed for this girl to do without any consent. I agree. This sounds (at first read, of course the article did not give us much if any background) like interference from an overzealous child welfare worker. Many, many families and children "at the age of reason" (even if they are still technically minors) make appropriate (for them) individual and family healthcare decisions every day without the interference of DCF and the courts.
ETA: but then again, this IS Fox News reporting it . . . .
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Jan 7, 2015 19:23:13 GMT -5
These stories make me sad. I think they are private health care issues, and shouldn't be made news.
But, I am an extreme introvert, and would hate for my family issues to make the news, no matter what the reason.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 7, 2015 20:02:02 GMT -5
These stories make me sad. I think they are private health care issues, and shouldn't be made news.
But, I am an extreme introvert, and would hate for my family issues to make the news, no matter what the reason. I'm pretty sure anyone who disclosed this issue could be in deep trouble under HIPAA as in getting fired as an individual and sued as an organization. Everywhere I've worked the privacy issues are taken VERY seriously. My money is on the fact the family went to the media to get sympathy for their cause.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 7, 2015 20:19:12 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure anyone who disclosed this issue could be in deep trouble under HIPAA as in getting fired as an individual and sued as an organization. Everywhere I've worked the privacy issues are taken VERY seriously. My money is on the fact the family went to the media to get sympathy for their cause. I think by the time the state Supreme Court is involved all privacy is lost.. I may have missed that, but I though even court cases were redacted when it came to minors? Any JD's here able to weigh in?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 7, 2015 20:28:52 GMT -5
Once you accept the concept of DCF- that the state an intervene in the "best interests" of a child, that you do not have children, the state allows you to retain custody if you conform to the state-mandated formulas- then you will have this kind of thing happen again and again. Having accepted the concept of DCF- as I'm sure most of you have, then you have to ask yourself: If you wake up one day and the girl wants to dye her hair blue, or become a vegetarian-- she can survive that level of experimentation; but when you say no to chemo based on snake oil salesmen on facebook, don't you think there's room for intervention to protect a minor from the abusive influences of parents? We certainly take kids out of homes for a whole lot less serious things than this.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jan 7, 2015 21:48:03 GMT -5
Tough to take a side without knowing the prognosis.
It could be anywhere from 1/99 you die to 99/1 you will be cured although I doubt doctors would recommend chemo if it was fruitless.
At first glance it would make sense to adhere to the wishes of the patient, but you really have to wonder if they are mature enough to make that call- because if society thought they were then they would be able to enter into contracts and buy beer at that age.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 7, 2015 21:54:12 GMT -5
She might not be able to make the decision but her mother has the right to make medical decisions for her.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jan 7, 2015 22:21:39 GMT -5
Well shit:
It is not completely clear why Cassandra and her mother oppose chemotherapy, which doctors at the children’s medical center say would give Cassandra an 85 percent chance of survival, according to court documents. Without treatment, the doctors said there was a near certainty of death within two years.
Give the young lady a mental evaluation and if she understands it all then ask her what she would like on her tombstone. As long as it is her choice and she understands it all.
My only problem with this kind of thing is when children are raised in super-religious households, cults, etc. where they do not know any better or the parents do not know any better and decide to pray instead of seeking treatment. The state should step in when nutball parents put their children at risk because of their beliefs- but this may not be that kind of case.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jan 7, 2015 23:25:31 GMT -5
Well shit:
It is not completely clear why Cassandra and her mother oppose chemotherapy, which doctors at the children’s medical center say would give Cassandra an 85 percent chance of survival, according to court documents. Without treatment, the doctors said there was a near certainty of death within two years.
Give the young lady a mental evaluation and if she understands it all then ask her what she would like on her tombstone. As long as it is her choice and she understands it all.
My only problem with this kind of thing is when children are raised in super-religious households, cults, etc. where they do not know any better or the parents do not know any better and decide to pray instead of seeking treatment. The state should step in when nutball parents put their children at risk because of their beliefs- but this may not be that kind of case. And I have a problem with anyone who thinks that they know better simply bc they are not super religious.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jan 7, 2015 23:35:30 GMT -5
Well shit:
It is not completely clear why Cassandra and her mother oppose chemotherapy, which doctors at the children’s medical center say would give Cassandra an 85 percent chance of survival, according to court documents. Without treatment, the doctors said there was a near certainty of death within two years.
Give the young lady a mental evaluation and if she understands it all then ask her what she would like on her tombstone. As long as it is her choice and she understands it all.
My only problem with this kind of thing is when children are raised in super-religious households, cults, etc. where they do not know any better or the parents do not know any better and decide to pray instead of seeking treatment. The state should step in when nutball parents put their children at risk because of their beliefs- but this may not be that kind of case. And I have a problem with anyone who thinks that they know better simply bc they are not super religious. I don't know better at all- that's the whole point- it is up the girl- I just think she should be informed and understand the decision.
Already went down this road where a family ran off with their child because they preferred 'God' as a healing mechanism.
And come on- don't take offense- most religious people understand modern medicine.
So in my opinion if parents keep their children away from hospitals or doctors because of their fucked up beliefs then they are not fit to be parents.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jan 7, 2015 23:37:48 GMT -5
on the iPad so I'm failing at linking but the daughter expressed concern that the mother would be angry with her because the mother doesn't trust doctors. Well that does it for me- I thought the mother may have just been supporting her daughter's choice. Unfit parent.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jan 8, 2015 0:05:45 GMT -5
EVT1- I was a 17 yr old girl once and I was a very stupid 17 yr old girl. I would have been more worried about loosing my beautiful hair than my life. And for better or worse, I would have trusted my parents ENTIRELY. Bc if I couldn't trust my parents, who COULD I trust? So, is it really that unreasonable that a mother has influence over her child? Religious or otherwise
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 0:29:33 GMT -5
At 17 I knew everything and more than parents! I already work for few years, have car, license and in college. I can't think of 17 year old being afraid of parent. At 26 I got actual smart and knew I did not know as much as parent
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 8, 2015 9:07:44 GMT -5
Since many states say it is ok for minor females to get contraceptives, regardless of parental consent, because it is their right, I do not see how the state can say they know better in this situation, and the child has no say in it. Don't take me wrong. I think the state is correct on THIS ISSUE. Minors, do not really comprehend the consequences. I believe the mother should be checked out. If she is legally sane, we have to let the matter end with her and the daughter.
BUT, I personally disagree with her decision
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jan 8, 2015 9:15:55 GMT -5
Of course it is sad for such a young person to have a life threatening disease. What totally confuses me is the totally different ways we treat young people based on circumstances having nothing to do with their age. What if she was a 14 year old that had committed a crime? How many here would be upset that the courts were treating her as an adult? Why would she be an adult if she commits a crime, but is treated like a mindless child who can't understand what is going on and make an informed decision if she gets sick?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 8, 2015 15:13:53 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 8, 2015 18:02:07 GMT -5
Tough to take a side without knowing the prognosis.
It could be anywhere from 1/99 you die to 99/1 you will be cured although I doubt doctors would recommend chemo if it was fruitless.
At first glance it would make sense to adhere to the wishes of the patient, but you really have to wonder if they are mature enough to make that call- because if society thought they were then they would be able to enter into contracts and buy beer at that age.
Do you think the court could prevent a minor from having an abortion- or that if they could, it would be OK?
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jan 8, 2015 18:50:24 GMT -5
Tough to take a side without knowing the prognosis.
It could be anywhere from 1/99 you die to 99/1 you will be cured although I doubt doctors would recommend chemo if it was fruitless.
At first glance it would make sense to adhere to the wishes of the patient, but you really have to wonder if they are mature enough to make that call- because if society thought they were then they would be able to enter into contracts and buy beer at that age.
Do you think the court could prevent a minor from having an abortion- or that if they could, it would be OK? If they determine the person is not mature enough to make the call then same deal- first it goes to the parents- and if they are unfit then the court would step in. They could just as easily force an abortion.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 8, 2015 20:24:32 GMT -5
This is why we need a federal right to die codified into law. Society and my doctor shouldn't get to dictate under what terms I'm willing to live. If she'd rather die in two years from a disease that could probably be cured by spending a year getting horribly painful treatments she should have the right to make that decision. The rest of us don't have to approve of it, or even understand it, but it should be her decision. Regardless of whether she's making the decision for religious reasons, fear, misinformation, unbridled optimism, or whatever. Her body, her life, her decision. Or it should have been anyway. How about if it were your 17 yr old daughter?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 8, 2015 20:26:42 GMT -5
This is why we need a federal right to die codified into law. Society and my doctor shouldn't get to dictate under what terms I'm willing to live. If she'd rather die in two years from a disease that could probably be cured by spending a year getting horribly painful treatments she should have the right to make that decision. The rest of us don't have to approve of it, or even understand it, but it should be her decision. Regardless of whether she's making the decision for religious reasons, fear, misinformation, unbridled optimism, or whatever. Her body, her life, her decision. Or it should have been anyway. How about if it were your 17 yr old daughter? you weren't asking me, but i would insist that she have chemo.
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