tractor
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Post by tractor on Dec 23, 2014 8:49:59 GMT -5
My son is focused on majoring in molecular genetics and bio-medical engineering. He has applied to Northwestern and University of Michigan, and has been accepted at Michigan State.
I want him to consider smaller private schools as an alternative as they may have more to offer. Does anyone out there in Proboards land have any school suggestions he might want to look into?
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Dec 23, 2014 9:52:15 GMT -5
I know Concordia is close to U of M but I don't know if they offer the courses he is looking for. Wayne State, not smaller I guess. Sorry!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 10:00:08 GMT -5
Penn State Hershey Med offers graduate degrees in said, but I guess that won't help currently. Sorry.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Dec 23, 2014 10:12:26 GMT -5
Georgia Tech! My alma mater. Ranked number 4 in Biomedical Engineering
Engineering schools are typically large public or private schools. Smaller private schools are generally more liberal arts focus. Generally the bigger the school, the more options there are. They are also usually research universities with a lot of options to work in your field.
Engineering is a tough field with a high dropout rate. Large classes and tough teachers. If you want to go to a small school with small classes, engineering is not your field.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 10:16:45 GMT -5
muttleynfelix was talking about small engineering schools on the other thread I thought...
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Dec 23, 2014 10:32:29 GMT -5
My school didn't get into the molecular genetics side. It started out as a mining school - they have lots of engineering degrees. Just not that one. I think my brother's might. Michigan Tech. I'm assuming tractor is in the lower peninsula. It is a LONG way up to MTU. But worth it for my brother and his wife (she didn't have a ton of choices because they were getting married and she wanted to get a degree, but it worked out for her too).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 10:35:02 GMT -5
I was actually responding to Georgiagal who said all engineering schools have to be large classes in large schools. I thought what you said contradicted that.
Sorry to hijack a little there tractor.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Dec 23, 2014 10:40:51 GMT -5
I was actually responding to Georgiagal who said all engineering schools have to be large classes in large schools. I thought what you said contradicted that. Sorry to hijack a little there tractor. Ok, Got it sorry. I am actually trying to work today. Yes I went to a small public engineering school of about 5000 students. My brother went to a different public engineering school of about 5000 students. There is always Rose-Hulman institute in Indiana that is also a small engineering focused school. In the midwest, there are several excellent options for smaller schools to get an engineering degree. It may be different down south. Both my school and my brother's started as mining schools. That may be the difference. Once I got past calc, physics, and chemistry, almost all of my classes were under 30 students. The professors all knew us by name by the 2nd week of school and most cared about us. (Ok my Calc 3 professor was an A-hole, but you get those anywhere). I even got to take a class with an instructor for another class as my lab partner. He was a former astronaut, teaching calculus and was taking the survey courses. Quite possibly the coolest guy I have ever met.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Dec 23, 2014 10:45:02 GMT -5
tractor Has your son looked at Rose-Hulman? I don't know much about it other than they have a good reputation and it looks like they may have the degree program your son wants. www.rose-hulman.edu/academics.aspx
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 11:12:41 GMT -5
If it is a small college experience that you are looking for, then Rose is a great choice. It is the number one rated engineering school in the nation for schools that are not R1 Research schools and just concentrate on teaching undergraduates. About 2300 students, all of which are engineering or science majors. Very good biomedical engineering program and a good applied biology program. One of Rose's board members is Carl Cook of Cook Medical and Rose has had a close relationship with Eli Lilly over the years.
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on Dec 23, 2014 13:38:45 GMT -5
Drexel in philadelphia
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Dec 23, 2014 14:27:56 GMT -5
Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Never heard of Rose Hillman college before, I will look into that one. He excells at math and science so he would be a good fit at an engineering school. As a parent, I would like him to be surrounded by other students who want to study, I know what happens if your around others who want to party all the time...
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Dec 23, 2014 14:56:17 GMT -5
Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Never heard of Rose Hillman college before, I will look into that one. He excells at math and science so he would be a good fit at an engineering school. As a parent, I would like him to be surrounded by other students who want to study, I know what happens if your around others who want to party all the time... Whatever school he chooses, it would be good if they had strong STEM programs so that if he decided he wanted to do something besides Molecular Genetics he wouldn't necessarily have to transfer. Every single school, from MIT to your local community college have dedicated studiers and those that are somewhat less dedicated. That's part of the maturing process. Being able to make good choices in a challenging environment. He's going to be faced with many social challenges. You seek out those that share your goals and study habits.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 23, 2014 17:27:56 GMT -5
You want a college that has a strong research program that is not expensive. Small universities normally do not have the same sort of research funding that large ones do, and he will not get a job without any way of getting experience. The best way is working summers during your undergrad (gratis, of course) and if there is no research program, no experience.
TD has a friend with a daughter that just graduated from this program from Cornell. She spent the last 2 years looking for a job and just recently found a job, making peanuts in Boston. Her parents were able to cash flow her education, so she has no student loans. I also know that they are supplementing her salary so she can gain experience.
IMO, things look really bleak here. Most industries want a PhD and experience, and most universities do not pay well....not well enough to pay for large student loan debt. The NIH budget for things is not good right now, and unless things change drastically soon, I really don't see things getting any better in the next decade.
Quite frankly, I would never recommend this path now....despite that I was able to make it work for me. Things are different now than they were in 1980.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Dec 23, 2014 18:21:31 GMT -5
I was going to ask if he knows what he wants to do with his degree. Mich is absolutely correct that the value in a bioengineering degree will depend heavily on getting research experience and that will be a lot easier at a big university--of your shortlist, I think UM would be better than MSU, but both would be adequate. Northwestern is probably not worth the increased price tag, especially if you're getting in-state rates on MSU/UM...but if you're from IL, then UIUC (UI urbana-champaign) has really stepped up their game recently on research and is worth a look. Possibly even if you're not from IL. She's also correct that the greater field is kinda stagnant. To me, it looks like you can work your @ss off for years through undergrad, PhD, postdoc (and biology postdocs can run 4-7 years) and still have an awful time finding a job. If he gets interested in the business or law aspects, the BS in bioengineering/molecular genetics could be good background, but science is not really a growth industry.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Dec 23, 2014 19:22:23 GMT -5
The only small private engineering school that comes to mind is Rose Holman Institute of Technology in Indiana. I have no idea if they offer the specific programs you're looking for though.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 23, 2014 23:27:36 GMT -5
I was going to ask if he knows what he wants to do with his degree. Mich is absolutely correct that the value in a bioengineering degree will depend heavily on getting research experience and that will be a lot easier at a big university--of your shortlist, I think UM would be better than MSU, but both would be adequate. Northwestern is probably not worth the increased price tag, especially if you're getting in-state rates on MSU/UM...but if you're from IL, then UIUC (UI urbana-champaign) has really stepped up their game recently on research and is worth a look. Possibly even if you're not from IL. She's also correct that the greater field is kinda stagnant. To me, it looks like you can work your @ss off for years through undergrad, PhD, postdoc (and biology postdocs can run 4-7 years) and still have an awful time finding a job. If he gets interested in the business or law aspects, the BS in bioengineering/molecular genetics could be good background, but science is not really a growth industry. This YouTube is scarily accurate. I saw it not long after it came out and passed it around the lab. It's funny that it's the same, regardless of where you are at!
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Dec 23, 2014 23:40:33 GMT -5
You may also want to check the details of the research piece with the various colleges that he is interested. Private universities have more funding nowadays than what the government is giving.
For example, my son's college is not well known for their science department, but this year have a Nobel Prize winner as part of their visiting faculty and have gotten more money for some research that they are doing. There are also famous alumni who have died recently without heirs and left their vast estate to be used as part of this research. Start poking at the websites and talk to the department heads if you are interested. Good luck.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Dec 24, 2014 20:05:38 GMT -5
This YouTube is scarily accurate. I saw it not long after it came out and passed it around the lab. It's funny that it's the same, regardless of where you are at! I think it pretty much perfectly captures the frustration of grad school Plus, bonus Gaga outfits made out of lab supplies! A former lab mate used to refer to research as an abusive relationship with some disturbingly persuasive arguments; I suppose it's a fitting theme
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siralynn
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Post by siralynn on Dec 25, 2014 2:01:46 GMT -5
Aside from a couple of highly respected small science/engineering universities (Harvey Mudd near LA is another), sticking with a large school is likely going to serve him best in a science field. More money, more big name professors, more opportunities. The three listed are likely all excellent. In most science fields, the undergrad university matters significantly less than the grad university, so if grad school is likely, the undergrad program should be solid, but doesn't necessarily need to be elite.
But previous posters are correct, it's tough out there in the biomedical side of science. Depending on what he thinks he wants to do, he should spend some time perusing websites like Chronicle for Higher Education, so he has a realistic view of career paths.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Dec 25, 2014 3:14:18 GMT -5
I don't know about the biomedical portion, but Oregon institute of Technology and Oregon State University are small compared to what youre talking about and are decently known for their engineering programs.
Good luck in the search and decision.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Dec 25, 2014 8:28:49 GMT -5
Thanks again for all the great advise. I am probably more obsessed than he is with this stuff, but it will be a significant investment in his future, I love the challenge and enjoy thinking about it.
I have been looking at a few of the suggestions, and have been encouraging him to do the same. He is focused on genetic research, main tied to helping with paralysis and some new advances in that field. He will probably end up at Michigan State because they have benn the only one to really reach out to him (both my wife and I are alumns). They have an accelerated Masters/Phd program and have a new med school located across the street from the DeVos Children's Research Hospital, which is less than an hour from our home. I just want him to explore as many options as possible in the field before he jumps in.
MSU will offer him many different choices should he change his mind, so that's on of the strong points. I am going to see if I can get him a tour of a research facility so he can meet someone who works in the field. There are also a few medical devise manufacturers near by, so he could go that route as well.
Thanks again for your input. Merry Christmas to you all, my family won't be up until noon, so I get to play on Proboards for awhile.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 25, 2014 9:50:34 GMT -5
One warning....the field de jour shifts regularly with regards to research, and the money that gets thrown at it. With all the incoming disabled vets, this is currently in vogue. In another 4-5 years, it could be something else. In the 30 years I have been in this field, I have seen easily 6 shifts.....all depending on what the current political climate is.
It is really smart to try to remain as flexible as long as possible, and not pigeon hole yourself. Ultimately, you DO wind up getting pigeon holed but not defining yourself before you get started gives you a way of sampling a lot before committing to anything. And it makes you a more well rounded scientist.
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siralynn
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Post by siralynn on Dec 25, 2014 10:03:01 GMT -5
Also - I wouldn't recommend doing a BS and PhD at the same institution. It works great for some folks, but for most people, you want to expand your network as much as possible and get different perspectives from at least two universities. (My undergrad, UIUC, actually would NOT admit undergrad chemical engineering alums to the grad program, at least not immediately. Some people did it, but they generally went out into industry for awhile first. Those if us who went directly to grad school were basically required to go somewhere else.)
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 25, 2014 11:50:47 GMT -5
Also - I wouldn't recommend doing a BS and PhD at the same institution. It works great for some folks, but for most people, you want to expand your network as much as possible and get different perspectives from at least two universities. (My undergrad, UIUC, actually would NOT admit undergrad chemical engineering alums to the grad program, at least not immediately. Some people did it, but they generally went out into industry for awhile first. Those if us who went directly to grad school were basically required to go somewhere else.) Very true. I can't think of anyone I trained in a graduate program that did their undergraduate degree at the same place. And ironically, those that I trained that did their BS at a higher rated undergrad (i.e. Harvard, etc) were not necessarily the best. In fact, those tended to be the worst and most frustrating to train.
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