messed up at work

[joemilitary]

Well I wouldn't say I messed up. I stood up for my values. But I guess that's both the same thing. In the military they talk about "values" all the time and I was foolish enough to believe in them.

they tried to screw over my subordinate at work and I stood up for her. Also before this I should say it was a toxic environment at work (I have emails that demonstrate this, but no one cares). I endured it for almost 3 years. It all ate up at me. I have over 24 years in the military and never saw such a place.

we complained all the way up to the General Officer level. My subordinate got sent on another assignment and they moved me internal in the organization.  My new place wasn't much better.  They tried to get me to sign for property / equipment that I had no business signing for and I told them I wouldn't do it and why (again I have email on this from them).  Then they threatened me with my evaluation and it went down hill.

They did other administrative actions on me and moved me to the other side of post.  These people have treated me OK but I know they are connected with my old supervisors (classmates).  I know they are very angry with me and I am always watching my back / unable to trust people.  I suspect they will try something else.  (I swear this place is like The Firm----never knew of such a thing)

I want to retire quick.  This makes wife uneasy.  But I am like you can't piss off a general and expect to last long anyway.........

If I don't retire I have to move to a new assignment, new assignment is filled with people connected with these people

we have over $500 K saved ($100 K cash---rest in retirement funds).  Retirement pay should be $44K per year (indexed to inflation----but taxes have to come off of that $44K)

NO KIDS (just a dog)

We have no debt except a house we are currently renting.  House payment is $1,500 a month.  We would move there

we both have Masters degrees---wife's doesn't pay much---probably like $35 K

I would probably look for a $50 K job

We don't like living the highlife, we are content to live like the Millionaire next door

I figure my retirement plus $30 K from savings should last us a year while we "recover" (if we don't find jobs fast, take time t digest everything, etc.)

thoughts on what to do?

[Shooby]

I think you would be fine to make whatever move you choose. You have laid the groundwork so now if you want to jump, then jump. It is a calculated risk and I think it would turn out fine.

[alabamagal]

With your situation I would get out (retire) ASAP.  Sounds like you are ok financially.  As long as you plan on finding a job, you should be able to live on your salary plus some from you wife and save your pension.

[gooddecisions]

How much do you make now? How old are you and your wife? Does your wife not currently work?

[Wisconsin Beth]

Welcome to the board.

I'm sorry you're going though this.  I hope you do well in the future.  Do you have a particular job or field in mind?  Is it easy to move into? 

Generally, the board is going to want a better budget breaking down income and outgoing expenses.  I'm lousy at budgeting so I don't get too involved in those discussions on the board. 

Finally, there are several members of the board in the military.  They may have thoughts for you on that aspect. 

Good luck!
Beth

[Peace77]

I would start looking for a job in the area that you want to retire in.  

How much notice do you have to give before retiring?

[joemilitary]

we are in our forties

what we make now is about $120 K.....but we save a lot of it so we don't need that much

I am supposed to give 9 months notice, but I already warned them at work I am planning to give notice (although it's not exactly called giving notice)

I really need some time to get healthy again......toxic work is not a joking thing and esp. in the military with the stuff they can MAKE you do

I definitely wouldn't want to go to war again (Afghanistan) with people like this watching my back.......

Thanks all 

[joemilitary]

Also as far as a budget, I guess you mean our "proposed" LEAN budget for the move?  or our current budget?  or our "proposed" budget when we both have jobs again?

Like I said, we have no expenses except the house.  Cars are paid for

of course I understand "living" costs money and things need maintenance etc.....

worst case IMO we can easily stretch 3 years with our cash and my retirement (although wife HATES that idea)

we plan to work on our LEAN budget tomorrow

it's been hard, thanks again all

[joemilitary]

Mentally  I am more than ready to be unemployed. That is my goal in life- early retirement & do what I WANT........main reason I stayed in military was the bennies and retirement check help set the ground work for this.....(IMO)......also I got to do some really positive things (until now).....I don't think I could have went through so long if I had known had bad military could be......guess I was lucky to make it this far being naïve.....

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

So between your retirement and your wife's job, you've got about $80K coming in, and the only debt is a $1500 mortgage.  Your healthcare is taken care of, and as you're not contributing to retirement, your expenses should be lower than they are now.

Would it really be necessary to even touch the $100K that you have stashed?

[zibazinski]

Have you thought about moving? I know DF would like to hire someone good.

[phil5185]

about "values" all the time and I was foolish enough to believe in them.

they tried to screw over my subordinate

a toxic environment

emails that demonstrate this, but no one cares

and I told them I wouldn't do it and why (again I have email on this from them

they are very angry with me and I am always watching my back / unable to trust people.

war again (Afghanistan) with people like this watching my back.......

There's a common thread in your post - the comments are classic PTSD-aligned.  Have you tried the PTSD Office on Post? Those folks know exactly what it is and how to fix it. They'll show you how to pick your contests, ie, which hill do I want to die on?  When to compromise, and when to dig in. And they'll fix your 'everyone is out to get me" thing.

Here is what I would worry about - if you go into the Private Sector with the same issue, this can be worse. Managers in the private sector are not constrained by the military chain of command & regulations, they are free to fire you without cause, no need to protect you with moves to the 'other side of the post'. And after you've been fired once or twice you'll be screwed - HR does a credit check, police records, IRS review, facebook check, drug tests, and history of previous jobs. 

[joemilitary]

Phil- thanks for the honest candid feedback, normally I may agree with you except:

-I made it over 20 years with no issues / doing great things and doing the same things I am doing now..........and I have and did go through bad-ish work environments and didn't say much

-I attribute most of it to the toxic environment (and I know that is the "buzzword" right now, but it's true.....basically they treated me like pure sh!t for 2 years.........people (GS civilians) are jumping ship left and right......and there are 2 other people in a similar-ish boat, and last year two civilians with "return rights" exercised those rights after only being here for a year

-if I was a civilian I would have been looking for another job after a few months here

I will send you a PM too, hopefully you don't mind

I do appreciate your honest feedback though and please let me know your thoughts on this post....I know you are respected on the boards here and I respect you too

[joemilitary]

thanks all.  I welcome any more comments

[mmhmm]

It sounds to me like you're financially ready to retire if that's what you want to do, provided you and/or your wife are able to get some sort of work once you've done so. You won't live the high life, but you two and the dog should be able to get along without too much trouble. If you're able to find work quickly, you might not have to put much of a dent in your savings.

If the work environment is putting a strain on your health and your marriage, I think I'd choose to "jump ship". It's a lot easier to tighten one's belt and dig in than it is to deal with worsening health and constant stress on the home front, I'd think. I've never been military; nor, have I lived that life, so I don't really have much understanding of what's available and how you might use it to your advantage, I'm afraid.

I wish you the best of luck in dealing with this.

[moneymaven]

I am not military but I've had my share of awful work environments. I am finally at an organization that feels good, that allows me to be productive, exercise and develop my skills, and keep my home life in balance. I feel like a different person. A shitty job isn't worth it. It sounds like you and your wife have made smart financial decisions and will continue to do so post military... I say go for it.

By the way, thank you for your service!

[Ava]

If you sit down with your wife and come up with a good plan, I think you should leave.

Life is too short to be aggravated. You have the huge benefit of a pension. Take advantage of that, look for a better job and enjoy your life.

I also think Phil has a point about PTSD. You should look into that.

[973beachbum]

I don't understand all the military things as I have never been it it but I have a few questions. 

First do you think they might back off if you put in your retirement papers?  some places I've worked, one person had it bad for someone which we could all never figure out.  For whatever reason though once that "never do well" put in their notice the ogre stopped caring about them and basically left them alone.  I would guess in their mind they won. 

Second is there any benefit to staying in 25 years vs 24?  I ask because you said you have been in 24 years already and have to put in 9 months notice.   It is probably already close to the point where that 9 months puts you over into that 25 years mark but if it didn't and it was a big change I would seriously consider waiting the extra month or two just to get that. 

And welcome to the boards!

[joemilitary]

thanks, also wondering how I recover from this as I obviously won't get a good reference

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Joe, thank you for your service.

We hired military often because of their skills and discipline to the job. I don't remember ever asking for a reference or even an evaluation (which is probably private in your service jacket). I was hired out of the military and only had to show an Honorable Discharge certificate.

[Bonny]

Dec 21, 2014 12:12:26 GMT -5 joemilitary said:

thanks, also wondering how I recover from this as I obviously won't get a good reference

Perhaps not from your direct boss but I'm sure you have other positive connections.

I had one soon-to-be boss who actually spoke to one of my colleagues with whom he had worked to get an idea of who I REALLY was. LOL, actually my boss at the time really liked me but my colleague and his assistant also really liked me. I used to be a really hard worker. Now I'm just a lazy semi-retired poster who spends too much time here. 

Keep in mind one of my favorite sayings:

Time wounds all heels.

If your current boss is a jerk it's likely s/he isn't just a jerk to you. S/he will have a reputation of doing this to others. It's always fun to watch it blow up in their faces.

[Peace77]

Do you have any leave time available?  Maybe a few days away in a quiet place would be helpful.

[seriousthistime]

I have no idea how military benefits work, so I have to ask: will you, as a retired veteran, have to go to a VA medical center, or can you get medical care any place you choose? Does your wife also get the same medical benefits you do?  Does it cost you anything (premiums, copays, or anything like that)?  Will you be moving to an area where there's a good VA center?

I know you say you would withdraw from your savings and not retirement -- but what if you don't find a job (or decide you like retirement) and you run through that $100K?  Since you are in your 40s, I assume your retirement savings would tack on a 10% penalty if you withdraw them before age 55 or 59 1/2. Is that true?  I'm not sure about military retirees who leave service at your age, and whether any special provisions in the TSP would apply to at least get around that minimum age for withdrawal.

You say your wife is uneasy.  Is it only the money, or is she uneasy about other aspects of it?  Would she have to find another job too?  Are you now in the area where your house is, and if it's rented, how quickly can the tenants be expected to move?  Is she concerned about your job prospects, or that you may come to like retirement so much that you'll be on the golf course all day while she's at work?  The retirement of one spouse affects the other in more ways that just finances.  It could be that part of her uneasiness is all of the other things that come with it.

Good luck to you.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I have no idea how military benefits work, so I have to ask: will you, as a retired veteran, have to go to a VA medical center, or can you get medical care any place you choose? Does your wife also get the same medical benefits you do? Does it cost you anything (premiums, copays, or anything like that)? Will you be moving to an area where there's a good VA center?

Military retirees get TriCare, which is pretty good (from listening to my dad).  His wife is covered too.  You do not pay premiums, I don't know what they pay in copays, but with all of my dad's problems, his bills have been squat.

You get TriCare until you reach 65, then Medicare covers you and TriCare becomes your secondary.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

When you hit 65 you get "TriCare For Life" . Use Medicare as secondary.

[joemilitary]

If we don't find the jobs, we have substantial Roth IRAs that we can withdraw the "principal" on with no penalties

my wife is uneasy about other aspects as we are currently serving overseas (away from our house in the states)

it looks like due to different circumstances, regardless that we will be forced to move to the states and do one more stateside tour (has to be at least 12 months)......I deploy in 2 weeks for a few months and no time to submit my paperwork.....looks like we will move this summer and then I could be out of the army (retired) 9 months from then (use my leave and things to take up the last 3 months)

I think my wife would be fine with me staying at home being "really" retired, as long as we had "enough" income (to me that number is $90 k per year which would include my retirement pay & job pay)

 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Stay safe on your deployment. 

[happyhoix]

I think my wife would be fine with me staying at home being "really" retired, as long as we had "enough" income (to me that number is $90 k per year which would include my retirement pay & job pay)

Perhaps your wife would feel more comfortable about the idea if the two of you went to see a financial advisor? Sometimes if an uninterested third party expert weighs in on a subject it can help the two spouses come to an agreement.

The advisor can also help you guys come up with what 'enough' money looks like - sounds like her idea of having 'enough' money may be more money than yours, but maybe you guys can agree that she'll work a full time job while you do the househusband stuff....  or maybe you both commit to finding part time work, or maybe you guys can decide what expenses you can cut so that you can live within your reduced budget.

Good luck, and thanks for your service to the country.

[joemilitary]

It's really more like a long TDY than a "deployment".....it's in a safe place.... just away from wife.......

[joemilitary]

although I am skeptical of the work environment to come, it will be an easier transition than from overseas

we will be about a 9 hr drive from where we will "retire" to (which for the choices of Army assignments, that is pretty close)