What if the Christmas story is just a story?

[Opti]

I don't know why I woke up thinking about this, but this morning I was thinking

about what the biblical scholar who is Muslim said on Fox news. That the Christmas

story was known not to be actual truth but just a fiction to fix everyone's minds

on the fact that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

I will work on finding a link later, I'm just thinking about all those Nativity scenes

which might be just a fable. So what do you think and feel about this if the Christmas

story is just a story and not actual events?

[ArchietheDragon]

I thought it was pretty "common knowledge" that jesus was not born in the winter.

[uncle23]

....


Optimist.....you made me think and search for biblical reference...thanks



www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/christmas-bible-/verses/

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+2:1-20



Luke 2:1-20
About that time Caesar Augustus ordered a census to be taken throughout the Empire. This was the first census when Quirinius was governor of Syria. Everyone had to travel to his own ancestral hometown to be accounted for. So Joseph went from the Galilean town of Nazareth up to Bethlehem in Judah, David's town, for the census. As a descendant of David, he had to go there. He went with Mary, his fiancŽe, who was pregnant. While they were there, the time came for her to give birth. She gave birth to a son, her firstborn. She wrapped him in a blanket and laid him in a manger, because there was no room in the hostel. There were sheepherders camping in the neighborhood. They had set night watches over their sheep. Suddenly, God's angel stood among them and God's glory blazed around them. They were terrified. The angel said, "Don't be afraid. I'm here to announce a great and joyful event that is meant for everybody, worldwide: A Savior has just been born in David's town, a Savior who is Messiah and Master. This is what you're to look for: a baby wrapped in a blanket and lying in a manger." At once the angel was joined by a huge angelic choir singing God's praises: Glory to God in the heavenly heights, Peace to all men and women on earth who please him. As the angel choir withdrew into heaven, the sheepherders talked it over. "Let's get over to Bethlehem as fast as we can and see for ourselves what God has revealed to us." They left, running, and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby lying in the manger. Seeing was believing. They told everyone they met what the angels had said about this child. All who heard the sheepherders were impressed. Mary kept all these things to herself, holding them dear, deep within herself. The sheepherders returned and let loose, glorifying and praising God for everything they had heard and seen. It turned out exactly the way they'd been told!

[zibazinski]

What if it is? It's still a nice story. I thought JESUS was born in August anyway.

[busymom]

That's where faith comes in.

And frankly, to me personally it doesn't matter what time of the year Jesus was born.  We celebrate it in December.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Dec 20, 2014 9:39:01 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

What if it is? It's still a nice story. I thought JESUS was born in August anyway.

I thought it was spring.  Something about lambing season being when more shepherds are in the fields.  But I could easily be wrong. 

[zibazinski]

Yikes! I heard this years ago at a planetarium show because they were trying to line up the stars explaining what might have been the bright star of biblical story.

[Deleted]

For me it wouldn't make much difference, or doesn't. I think the story of how he was born is told to show how it fulfilled some prophecy or something and for my daily living that stuff doesn't matter. And to be honest, Christmas is trees and Santa Claus to me. I am interested in His teachings and trying to live by them on a daily basis. Virgin birth doesn't impact that much one way or the other.

[Shooby]

Do you mean that Ralphie isn't real and he never gets the Red Ryder BB gun? Noooooooooo!!!

[mroped]

I read awhile ago that same thing bout an August birth of Jesus. 
The winter celebration was chosen because there was something going on already in the lands that the church was spreading: the winter solstice! That was a big celebratory time for most pagans(as in non believers in the story of Jesus).
The religious significance of the day has no meaning anymore in this day and age. All we want anymore is just to shop till we drop and pretend to need things that we don't need just to satisfy our greed and avarice!
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in the story to begin with but I made my peace with it because of the intent for which was created/invented. A time when we forgive and forget and help the ones in need is good. Too bad it doesn't mean that anymore! 

[uncle23]

Dec 20, 2014 10:08:31 GMT -5 mroped said:

I read awhile ago that same thing bout an August birth of Jesus. 
The winter celebration was chosen because there was something going on already in the lands that the church was spreading: the winter solstice! That was a big celebratory time for most pagans(as in non believers in the story of Jesus).
The religious significance of the day has no meaning anymore in this day and age. All we want anymore is just to shop till we drop and pretend to need things that we don't need just to satisfy our greed and avarice!
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in the story to begin with but I made my peace with it because of the intent for which was created/invented. A time when we forgive and forget and help the ones in need is good. Too bad it doesn't mean that anymore! 

.....

it still means a lot to me at least...

[billisonboard]

But there was a little drummer boy, wasn't there? 

[uncle23]

......


i'll be home for christmas....

.....faithful friends who are dear to us , gather near to us once more...

[Opti]

I think most people have heard of Jesus's birth was more likely August/September

timeframes. Until I heard this scholar in a video clip though, I had not heard that

they(some scholars) believe there was no census when he was born nor was there a need to go

to one's birthplace to be counted.

It does not upend everything for me, but it does make me feel differently about

songs like Away in the Manager.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Not me.  But then again, I tend to think of the entire Bible as a cultural document and not a historical one. 

[uncle23]

.....

www.usccb.org/bible/luke/2

www.gotquestions.org/Muslim-CHD2.html


www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/real-nativity-story-sursing-truths-you-may-not-know/pri

[uncle23]

......




www.patheos.com/blogs/markdroberts/series/the-birth-of-jesus-hype-or-history/

[Angel!]

IIRC, Jesus needed to be born in bethleham to fit the prophecy of the messiah (I looked it up...Micah 5:2). So create a story to make him fit the prophecy and celebrate it in December to help convert pagans.

The virgin birth was a pretty common claim at the time, so no real surprise that made it into the story either. There is also the interesting fact that 2 of the accounts of Jesus' life never mention a virgin birth...more interesting it was the earliest 2 written that fail to mention this fact. Had that actually been what happened, seems something that miraculous would have made it into every account of his life.

Yes, it is just a story created/changed over time so people would accept this man as the messiah and worship him as a god.

[Angel!]

Dec 20, 2014 12:35:31 GMT -5 uncle23 said:

......




www.patheos.com/blogs/markdroberts/series/the-birth-of-jesus-hype-or-history/

If your worldview does not have a place for a God who does miracles, then you’ll be unable to consider the Nativity narratives as historically reliable.
....
But if one believes in a god who is anything like the biblical God, and if one believes that the miracles of gospels, including the resurrection of Jesus really happened, then one is in a position to evaluate the birth narratives as potential historical records.

Imo, this is like say "if one believes in witches and magic, then one is in a position to evaluate Harry Potter as potential historical records"

A belief in God or mysticism or miracles should not be required to evaluate the historical accuracy of something. Otherwise no one would be in the position to evaluate historical records that contain stories or older gods.

In some stories Augustus Caesar was born a virgin birth to the god apollo. Should we treat that with the same likelihood, ignoring all naysayers that show disbelief in Apollo as a god with such powers? By his argument, no one else if fit to judge the potential historical accuracy of the story.

[ktunes]

the xmas story can be read in pretty much in any encyclopedia...

kind of interesting that most modern day "christian" celebrations were imported pagan celebrations...many of which transgress the 10 commandments...

[NoNamePerson]

Guess I'll get booed off the stage for this but I've never gotten past a "virgin" birth.  

[Shooby]

If God can speak the world into Existence and do other miracles, not sure why that would be something that is impossible.

[Shooby]

Is the Muslim Biblical Scholar also going to ponder the possible fables revolving around Muhammed as well?

[Shooby]

I mean, they have a talking Donkey in their scripture too! lol

[Shooby]

Christianity has something the other world religions do not - BACON!

[Opti]

Dec 21, 2014 8:45:46 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Christianity has something the other world religions do not - BACON!

Not really. The old testament prohibited pork. Nothing in the New Testament explicitly

includes bacon.

There are more than two world religions. While bacon is big over here, pork is consumed

at a high rate in China.

[Opti]

Dec 20, 2014 23:55:10 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Dec 20, 2014 12:35:31 GMT -5 uncle23 said:

......




www.patheos.com/blogs/markdroberts/series/the-birth-of-jesus-hype-or-history/

If your worldview does not have a place for a God who does miracles, then you’ll be unable to consider the Nativity narratives as historically reliable.
....
But if one believes in a god who is anything like the biblical God, and if one believes that the miracles of gospels, including the resurrection of Jesus really happened, then one is in a position to evaluate the birth narratives as potential historical records.

Imo, this is like say "if one believes in witches and magic, then one is in a position to evaluate Harry Potter as potential historical records"

A belief in God or mysticism or miracles should not be required to evaluate the historical accuracy of something. Otherwise no one would be in the position to evaluate historical records that contain stories or older gods.

In some stories Augustus Caesar was born a virgin birth to the god apollo. Should we treat that with the same likelihood, ignoring all naysayers that show disbelief in Apollo as a god with such powers? By his argument, no one else if fit to judge the potential historical accuracy of the story.

I also don't buy the either or belief. I can believe in a God that does miracles at the same

time I can believe the various authors of what became the bible wrote for their own reasons

and point of view.

If there was no census then and one didn't need to go to one's place of birth to be counted,

then it appears it was made up to be more dramatic and special than RL. Being born normally

in Bethlehem would not have the same drama as the manager story.

[Opti]

Dec 21, 2014 8:24:57 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Guess I'll get booed off the stage for this but I've never gotten past a "virgin" birth.  

I try not to think about that aspect too much. Some of the things I read suggest

it was Virgin Mary who was the virgin birth not Jesus.

[zibazinski]

Oh boy, I try not to think on that part of it as well. Wish my two would have been from a virgin birth. I'm embarrassed to think I had sex with my ex!

[zibazinski]

Plus, I don't like the thought of my parents having sex so I'd like my mom to have had a virgin birth, too.