cael
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Post by cael on Dec 11, 2014 9:12:08 GMT -5
My parents lived in a townhouse complex they couldn't afford, drove POS cars they had to replace every 2 years, went into debt, had to borrow from my mother's rich stepdad to stay afloat sometimes and had zero money after sending us to private school to do anything else (until about 10 years ago this was their reality). I don't aspire to be like them and they wouldn't want me to ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) I don't ever expect to be rolling in it, but I hope to have a comfortable enough life and nice house someday and decent retirement savings, that's it. And sadly, that's more than my parents ever had my entire childhood. but for seriousness - the house you idiot, then you can go back to your lattes. UGH.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Dec 11, 2014 10:02:16 GMT -5
I strive NOT to keep up with my parents. I want to avoid foreclosure, bankruptcy, dying in debt and/or poverty! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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murphath
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Post by murphath on Dec 11, 2014 12:28:14 GMT -5
1 British pound is @ $2 U.S. So, they're living in a $2 mill. home.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 11, 2014 15:55:55 GMT -5
1 British pound is @ $2 U.S. So, they're living in a $2 mill. home. Nice, rich bastards
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Dec 11, 2014 16:59:49 GMT -5
Honestly, the whole article was so disturbing. I really hope it was a parody or something because the idea that a person like that could exist with such obvious lack of awareness makes my head want to explode. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yikes.png)
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Dec 11, 2014 17:05:04 GMT -5
Honestly, the whole article was so disturbing. I really hope it was a parody or something because the idea that a person like that could exist with such obvious lack of awareness makes my head want to explode. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yikes.png) ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif) My parents were very middle class and did pretty good. We were the "rich" middle class because there were very low middle class families where we lived so it made us look good. LOL! And I far exceeded my parents in my early 20's but only because of who I married and we didn't support a bunch of kids like they did. But the real success didn't come until we married so I get some credit - especially with DH2.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 18:00:46 GMT -5
London is like NYC, just crazy expensive.
That house isn't any big deal for London (I'm not talking about the renovations, I'm talking about the house itself). Also, unlike NYC, London is HUGE, so a lot of people have private houses within the London zone.
This said, that woman is flucking nuts, she has all her priorities in the wrong place. I'm guessing she did this because she is trying to shame either her parents or her in-laws into gifting them some money.
The Daily Mail ISN'T The Onion LOL. BUT people DO get paid for selling their story to the Daily Mail, or other tabloids. Just sayin' ... I have NO clue of how much they get paid, but it's well known in the UK that they DO get paid for that, and well. So at least the next bunch of mortgage payments should be significantly less painful for her (assuming her DH agreed with it and won't divorce her because of the shame). "Poor dear" LOL (that's sometimes the UK equivalent of that Southern expression ... bless your soul LOL).
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Dec 11, 2014 18:15:40 GMT -5
I appreciate that people want to give their children a better life. The struggle to match financial achievements as you get closer to the top must be incredible. That being said, a better life isn't all measured in dollars, and doesn't end with childhood. Their parents gave them financial security, but apparently failed to pass on how to live within their means and choose careers that were more than emotionally fulfilling. Unless they want their children to end up in the same predicament, or worse, they should really reevaluate what they think a better life entails.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Dec 12, 2014 4:00:09 GMT -5
I am about equal to my parents at my age. We grew up with mom not having a paid job so dad's income had to support 5 people. We always had a modest house some worse that modest but always a house. Their final house was 3 bedrooms 1.5 baths with a 2 car garage on a smallish lot. They both had pensions so income was ok without dipping into savings. I have a nice house but needs to be nicer to sell, no pensions but more savings, but I need my savings so dip into it all the time. None of us show off so don't need a fancy lifestyle, I wouldn't feel right in her shiny house and probably not in her neighborhood. My dad once started to buy a house but found the neighbors were all professionals and he was union labor so he said he wouldn't fit in. It must be hard to be all fancy and not have the money if she had to live like me she would hate it as much as I don't want to be her.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 12, 2014 12:54:47 GMT -5
London is like NYC, just crazy expensive. That house isn't any big deal for London (I'm not talking about the renovations, I'm talking about the house itself). Also, unlike NYC, London is HUGE, so a lot of people have private houses within the London zone. This said, that woman is flucking nuts, she has all her priorities in the wrong place. I'm guessing she did this because she is trying to shame either her parents or her in-laws into gifting them some money. The Daily Mail ISN'T The Onion LOL. BUT people DO get paid for selling their story to the Daily Mail, or other tabloids. Just sayin' ... I have NO clue of how much they get paid, but it's well known in the UK that they DO get paid for that, and well. So at least the next bunch of mortgage payments should be significantly less painful for her (assuming her DH agreed with it and won't divorce her because of the shame). "Poor dear" LOL (that's sometimes the UK equivalent of that Southern expression ... bless your soul LOL). Thank you for answering... I think I am slow because I think they have a easy solution to their Problems. Their House is worth 1 Million Euros and they only owe 5 Million Euros. If she could accept that it is perfectly "ok" for her kids to not share a room, put the older boys together and twins together, a 3 bedroom house will be just fine. Couldn't they find a 500 Million Euros 3 bedroom house to buy for cash?
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Dec 13, 2014 19:02:40 GMT -5
Their House is worth 1 Million Euros and they only owe 5 Million Euros. If she could accept that it is perfectly "ok" for her kids to not share a room, put the older boys together and twins together, a 3 bedroom house will be just fine. Couldn't they find a 500 Million Euros 3 bedroom house to buy for cash?
HUH? something doesn't compute here in my mushy brain.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 20:39:32 GMT -5
I think Carl meant their house is worth 1 million pounds and they only owe 500,000 pounds. I'm not sure and I'm too tired to reread the article, but I think it's something like that.
Per your question, Carl, I don't know enough about London to answer it. My guess is that they could NOT afford a place near where they are with 500K, and that they opted to "stretch" themselves to get into that house because of the school district. I'm guessing if they tried to buy that place today they wouldn't be able to.
The other issue, as others have mentioned, is that it seems that at this stage of their employment, they couldn't get another loan even if they wanted to. Lending in the UK is quite strict now. My DS1's GF is British. She went househunting exactly one year ago because she was between jobs so she finally had the time. She has a lot of savings and was ready to put 30%-40% down. But since she was between jobs, the banks refused to loan her the money, even though she is in her 30s, she was able to put up to 40% down, and her very solvent parents offered to cosign for her.
Again, I'm not saying this woman is making smart decisions, I'm just trying to explain, to the best of my limited ability, since I know a bit about house prices in London (but not all that much) since DH is British, from London, and we go there regularly.
Central London is much bigger than central Paris or NYC, so owning a house with land in central London is much more common than it is in Paris or NY. (I'm guessing it's more like LA but I'm not sure because I don't really know LA, I've only spent a few days there.) But at the same time, London is a major world capital, so it's not all that surprising that house prices are expensive, especially when you factor in the land. That's just how it is in London, and in some other cities that are (technically) in commuting distance. Historically, the Brits (like the Americans) generally aspire to own houses / land, and that drives the prices up too. So do the rich foreigners who have been buying up a lot of property there (like in Paris and NY).
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wmpeon
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Post by wmpeon on Dec 14, 2014 11:37:59 GMT -5
Actually, I feel that a lot of "poor" people don't understand the value of money. When you're used to living paycheck to paycheck, you live in the moment. That's why getting a large tax refund or other windfall results in people buying big screen TVs, instead of padding their emergency fund for when the car needs new brakes. I didn't read the article, but it sounds like this couple lived in the NOW. They knew their incomes would fluctuate, yet they didn't save anything back for slimmer times. What stinks is how many smart people I see fall into these patterns. Even myself, I KNOW I should be saving more because I don't know what the future or job market holds, yet I carry on as if nothing will ever change. I'm doing okay right now, but that would change immediately if I had a prolonged medical issue or time of unemployment. My parents lived hand-to-mouth my entire life and I never want to live that way. At least I'm consistently saving for retirement, though that wouldn't help me if I were suddenly unemployed.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Dec 14, 2014 14:24:40 GMT -5
I make about 76k a year now. It's more than my mom ever made during her working life. My dad makes maybe 110k, but has quite a few years of experience on me. I'll probably end up making about the same as my dad or more, even accounting for inflation and all that.
We're both in the government, and he's a GS 13 and I'm a GS 12, but I'll get a GS 13 in this job eventually. He's gets a higher COLA than I do here, but I'm running about 5-8 years ahead of him age to career trajectory wise. Overall, I think it'll be pretty comparable, I might even do slightly better.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Dec 14, 2014 16:38:31 GMT -5
I hope Scotland Yard is diligently searching for the evil, nefarious people (or space aliens, or whatever) who held guns to their heads and forced them to have 4 children and then forced them to make those expensive renovations and send their kids to private schools and who are apparently still hanging around forcing them at gunpoint to stay in that house they can't afford.
'Cause, you know, none of that is their fault at all. They were forced to do it.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Dec 14, 2014 20:57:59 GMT -5
Let me third the whole "London is CRAZY expensive" thing. The numbers are staggering because the demand is high. Neighborhoods are changing as wealthy foreigners are buying up homes. And since many of said foreigners only spend half their time in residence, local businesses are hurting from lower patronage.
I want to know how the math works out that they service a 500K GBP mortgage with 2K GBP / mo. I know that property ownership and lending works differently there. I think there are places in Europe (and Asia) where mortgages pass to the next generation along with the property.
What does the rest of the house look like? Yes, that kitchen is nice and very modern. Obviously the piece has a slant. I'd love the rest of the story.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Dec 14, 2014 21:07:16 GMT -5
I want to know how the math works out that they service a 500K GBP mortgage with 2K GBP / mo. I know that property ownership and lending works differently there. I think there are places in Europe (and Asia) where mortgages pass to the next generation along with the property. BTW mortgages in the US can pass to the next generation if an heir wants to keep a property. It's a specific exclusion to the Due on Transfer (sale) clause. No qualifying and it doesn't have to even transfer into your name. I kept my mother's first mortgage on her condo. I just supplied the death certificate and kept making the payments.
For a while there were some 40 year mortgages being marketed here in the US. They effectively were interest only mortgages for the first 10 years.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Dec 14, 2014 23:57:14 GMT -5
Let me third the whole "London is CRAZY expensive" thing. The numbers are staggering because the demand is high. Neighborhoods are changing as wealthy foreigners are buying up homes. And since many of said foreigners only spend half their time in residence, local businesses are hurting from lower patronage. I want to know how the math works out that they service a 500K GBP mortgage with 2K GBP / mo. I know that property ownership and lending works differently there. I think there are places in Europe (and Asia) where mortgages pass to the next generation along with the property. What does the rest of the house look like? Yes, that kitchen is nice and very modern. Obviously the piece has a slant. I'd love the rest of the story. I believe that London is crazy expensive, but that looks like a big, nice house. There has got to be other options available with a little less space. Yes, they might have to move across the city, and they would probably have to change schools. I know that can be traumatic, but it seems like having an insolvent family while growing up might be traumatic, too. A short adjustment period, and the kids will be fine, actually they will probably be better off in the long-term, because 30 years from now we won't be reading an article by their kids saying "My parents sold their soul to give us a big house - we just wanted to give our kids their own rooms...blah, blah, blah."
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 15, 2014 9:41:43 GMT -5
Does "public school" mean the same thing in the UK as it does here? I have a vague thought (courtesy of Dorothy Sayers) that there are different means for the term Public school. But I could be wrong, it's not like I've done research on it. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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Baby Fawkes
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Post by Baby Fawkes on Dec 15, 2014 11:10:45 GMT -5
I've never been quite sure what the different school names over here mean, but in the UK it means government/state schools. There are public or private schools. Private being the same meaning as over here where parents have to pay tuition for the children to attend. Public schools are fully taxpayer funded and children are typically assigned by catchment area.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Dec 15, 2014 12:53:40 GMT -5
Does "public school" mean the same thing in the UK as it does here? I have a vague thought (courtesy of Dorothy Sayers) that there are different means for the term Public school. But I could be wrong, it's not like I've done research on it. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) I've never been quite sure what the different school names over here mean, but in the UK it means government/state schools. There are public or private schools. Private being the same meaning as over here where parents have to pay tuition for the children to attend. Public schools are fully taxpayer funded and children are typically assigned by catchment area. No - a British public school is equivalent to a US private school. It's a little more nuanced than that but the very expensive and very prestigious boarding schools like Eton, Harrow and Rugby are public schools. I believe the term 'public' refers to children being educated outside of their homes and not by governesses. Wisconsin Beth - there is a whole discussion about the merit of different public schools in Dorothy L. Sayer's "Murder Must Advertise" ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) .
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 15, 2014 13:13:43 GMT -5
What I meant to say and I did not explain clearly before...
They have a house worth 1,000,000 GBP They owe on it 500,000 GBP And due to new regulations cannot get a mortgage...
Can't they sell the house, leaving them with a profit of 500,000 GBP
And look for house elsewhere, maybe outskirts of London or smaller (3 bedroom vs. Bedroom) for 500,000 GBP and pay for it cash.
And end up with NO mortgage!!!!
To me that would be a WIN - WIN situation. Now they would have an extra 2,000 GBP/month to go towards Lattes and other costs
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Dec 15, 2014 14:05:15 GMT -5
What I meant to say and I did not explain clearly before... They have a house worth 1,000,000 GBP They owe on it 500,000 GBP And due to new regulations cannot get a mortgage... Can't they sell the house, leaving them with a profit of 500,000 GBP And look for house elsewhere, maybe outskirts of London or smaller (3 bedroom vs. Bedroom) for 500,000 GBP and pay for it cash. And end up with NO mortgage!!!! To me that would be a WIN - WIN situation. Now they would have an extra 2,000 GBP/month to go towards Lattes and other costs what you propose is to logical of a plan..............after all, what if they are only able to sell for 450 GBP and God forbid those precious children should have to share rooms..........what if one refuses to respect the privacy of their bunkmate huh?? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Dec 15, 2014 16:03:08 GMT -5
Interesting how people can live in a home for 40 years and not do a thing to it, but when somebody with expensive tastes buys it- it NEEDS renovations to be liveable. That's probably a $100,000 kitchen. I'm sure they could have come up with a cheaper solution for the foundation issues with the addition that didn't involve draining their savings and borrowing more money.
I write this as my bathroom is being gutted and I cuss out the previous homeowners for not doing a darn thing other than paint rooms horrible bold colors the 16 years they lived here. But at least I know making a completely functional ugly bathroom more functional and beautiful, is not a NEED. Regardless, they are the smart ones because they left things alone and managed to sell the place to a couple of suckers for $135K more than they purchased it.
This couple is lucky they even have equity considering it is likely due to the market rather than a large down-payment and/or paying down the mortgage.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 15, 2014 16:14:25 GMT -5
This couple is lucky they even have equity considering it is likely due to the market rather than a large down-payment and/or paying down the mortgage. After reading this article I am willing to bet my paycheck it is 100% due to the market increase vs downpayment / paying down mortgage. As Anne said, market has been increasing at a rapid paste, 25%/year to be exact.
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Baby Fawkes
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Post by Baby Fawkes on Dec 15, 2014 16:14:31 GMT -5
Does "public school" mean the same thing in the UK as it does here? I have a vague thought (courtesy of Dorothy Sayers) that there are different means for the term Public school. But I could be wrong, it's not like I've done research on it. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) I've never been quite sure what the different school names over here mean, but in the UK it means government/state schools. There are public or private schools. Private being the same meaning as over here where parents have to pay tuition for the children to attend. Public schools are fully taxpayer funded and children are typically assigned by catchment area. No - a British public school is equivalent to a US private school. It's a little more nuanced than that but the very expensive and very prestigious boarding schools like Eton, Harrow and Rugby are public schools. I believe the term 'public' refers to children being educated outside of their homes and not by governesses. Wisconsin Beth - there is a whole discussion about the merit of different public schools in Dorothy L. Sayer's "Murder Must Advertise" ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) . OK, I stand corrected for the mainland UK then. Where I grew up in Britain a public school was just a regular tax payer funded school.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Dec 15, 2014 16:49:14 GMT -5
Interesting how people can live in a home for 40 years and not do a thing to it, but when somebody with expensive tastes buys it- it NEEDS renovations to be liveable. That's probably a $100,000 kitchen. I'm sure they could have come up with a cheaper solution for the foundation issues with the addition that didn't involve draining their savings and borrowing more money. I write this as my bathroom is being gutted and I cuss out the previous homeowners for not doing a darn thing other than paint rooms horrible bold colors the 16 years they lived here. But at least I know making a completely functional ugly bathroom more functional and beautiful, is not a NEED. Regardless, they are the smart ones because they left things alone and managed to sell the place to a couple of suckers for $135K more than they purchased it. This couple is lucky they even have equity considering it is likely due to the market rather than a large down-payment and/or paying down the mortgage. LOL, we've bought a couple of those.
When we returned "home" I thought we would do some light "fix ups" and be done. Well, after 50 years and some hidden neglect we had to pay the piper. There was a leak under the kitchen sink which wasn't addressed for a while. And then all the finger nail digs on everything drawer and cabinets. Although we could have "refaced" the cost of refacing was getting pretty close to just replacing the cabinets. Like so many homeowners we figured if we're going to spend the money we might as well update the kitchen to an "open concept" and take down a wall. So my $25k "light" kitchen reno wound up costing $35k.
In the hall bath water wicked up the wall necessitating tear out of the tub surround. 50 year old tub and faucets needed to be replaced. Cracked sink and another leak under that sink. We wound up doing a complete tear out.
MB bath molded over walls and floors. Another complete gut. Took advantage and reconfigured toilet and dressing area. About $40k for both baths. Original budget was $20k.
We still have a lot of work to do including replacing all the interior and a couple of exterior doors. Tenants put holes or my favorite lipstick stains on two of the interior doors. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/rolleyes2.gif)
Between hidden damage, upgraded code requirements and permit fees it's pretty easy to blow a budget.
Our big $$$ will be replacing our large driveway and garage floor. Funny if your house is worth $1M buyers expect those things to look nice! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 16, 2014 11:49:32 GMT -5
Does "public school" mean the same thing in the UK as it does here? I have a vague thought (courtesy of Dorothy Sayers) that there are different means for the term Public school. But I could be wrong, it's not like I've done research on it. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) I've never been quite sure what the different school names over here mean, but in the UK it means government/state schools. There are public or private schools. Private being the same meaning as over here where parents have to pay tuition for the children to attend. Public schools are fully taxpayer funded and children are typically assigned by catchment area. No - a British public school is equivalent to a US private school. It's a little more nuanced than that but the very expensive and very prestigious boarding schools like Eton, Harrow and Rugby are public schools. I believe the term 'public' refers to children being educated outside of their homes and not by governesses. Wisconsin Beth - there is a whole discussion about the merit of different public schools in Dorothy L. Sayer's "Murder Must Advertise" ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) . gs11rmb - that's the book I was thinking of. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Dec 19, 2014 17:06:51 GMT -5
I'd forgotten about inheritances, but I'm still pretty sure that ownership in America has a lot less challenges than in other countries.
Nevertheless, I still want to know how they service 500K on 2K/mo. Perhaps that figure doesn't include taxes and insurance like it does here?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 17:22:57 GMT -5
Yes they could have an IO loan (not sure if those are still common there or not, they certainly were for a while).
Public schools generally = what we call private schools. But I don't think that was respected in the article (that expression may have fallen out of favor with the readership of the Daily Mail esp since it's international now). It could also be class-linked and / or generational. For DH (58) his public school = US private school.
OK I re-skimmed ... Gowron, their mortgage payment is 2K/mo, and their expenses 4K per month. I didn't see their income.
The UK mortgage system is similar to Canada's (I think). You sign for a 2,3 or 5 year mortgage, and then refinance after that period. Apparently there are also longer-term fixed mortgages, but from what DH's family tells me, relatively few people go for those, because so many homeowners hope to sell after just a few years, recoup a boatload of equity and then repurchase a bigger place. Rinse and repeat.
DH's cousins both told me they are both quite rare in having long-term, fixed mortgages (US style, but I don't know how long their term is.) But although they are not high-earners, DH's family has always been quite smart with their money.
They would all definitely think this woman is flucking nuts too LOL.
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