Solo trip to France and/or Italy

[justme]

So my goal is to get to Europe in 2015 (before I'm 30!). Bonny (and simser) suggested I start my own thread vs piggybacking cael's.

At the moment I'll be going on my own and haven't decided whether I'll do some sort of tour or not. I turn 29 in February. Time would be fall/shoulder season. I'd have about 2 weeks. Work gives me 3 weeks of PTO total so I could stretch it over 2 weeks. (Only negative of starting this new job, I would have had 4+ weeks with my current company. Oh well)

I'll be taking my DSLR, so looking for good photo opportunities. I will also be wanting to lavishly indulge in good food and wine. I like museums enough, but I tend to go through them quicker than others I've been with. I love the outdoors/water (have been on white water trips, and several zip lines, like boat tours).

I'm not needing 5 star hotels - just nice enough place to sleep and central to places. Not sure how much I can get away with not having a car.

I'd probably focus just on Italy, but every time I think of going all the way to Europe and NOT go to Paris it makes me sad even though I don't plan for this to be my only Europe visit.

So any tips or suggestions are welcome.

[Bonny]

The two week foodie trip we did in 2011 for DH's birthday was Tuscany, Bologna and Barolo.

We drove and you would need to drive to do the trip. Driving in Italy takes a little getting used to. They drive fast! But I saw very few accidents. DH was a nervous wreck until we hit on the great idea of me driving in the morning and after we split a bottle of wine at lunch he was able to drive back.

We did a walking tour in Chianti and if you're interested in that PM me and I'll get the guide's info. We booked all of our stays (a guest house on a larger estate outside of Florence; a furnished apartment attached to a hotel in Bologna; and an Agroturismo in Barolo) in vacation rentals. While all were good we both loved the Agroturismo the best and it was the cheapest!

If any of our itinerary is interesting to you let me know and I can look up what you need.

[sarcasticgirl]

I've been to Italy about half a dozen times and it is by far my favorite country.
I would recommend making a trip down south to the amalfi coast. My friends and I used to rent a villa in positano every summer. Talk about picturesque!

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using proboards

[simser]

So I'd start by asking myself: how often do I want to pack up from my hotel? That will help you with how many destinations and then you can start to figure out what are the most important for you.

For me? I like to move no more than every 2-3 days. I stink at that sometimes. But I'd probably try and go to 4 different places in Italy if. I had 2 weeks.

Then it's "what about Italy excites me"? The food? I would go to some place where I could spend a day learning to cook. The wine? Well id go to some place with lots of wine. The beaches? Rome? Art? Etc.... Online guidebooks and wiki travel make me excited about places and help me find the places I want to visit. I also look into viator for day trips from my home base. (Like Pompeii from Rome or a cooking class in Tuscany). I'd rather spend a long day on a bus than move hotels again.

If it's just pictures, do you like landscapes or people in the pictures. I like nature and wildlife so I go to places I can take pictures of that stuff.

If you want to party, go to a place where there's a nightlife (ie not a tiny tiny town). Although if you want to be part of the town, a small town is a great place to be.

After I know where I want to go and rearrange the trip to my liking, I'll look for hotels and stuff but the itinerary is the most important thing.

And, honestly, if not going to Paris would make you sad to think about it, maybe fly into Paris, and then one night take an overnight train to Italy and include it as one of your stops. It's not completely forbidden to see exactly what you want and make it your "Paris and Italy" trip. You just have to know that you'll probably cut out something else (that would be less important that you could go to on your second trip).

[tcu2003]

I thought of the travel group - it's Contiki Tours.

[wmpeon]

I think it really depends on what you're looking for.  Do you want to relax and slowly take in the sights?  Or do you want to play tourist and hit all the big attractions?  I visited Europe once as a student by myself in '99 and I played at being a tourist on the cheap.  I stayed in hostels and took the train between cities.  I agree with simser that an overnight train might be the way to go if you want to hit both Paris and Italy, it's what I did.  By the way, the hostels were fine.  I was just looking for a place to sleep that was nearby, safe and cheap after all.  Make sure you reserve in advance.  Italy especially sold out quickly.

I saw bits of Italy.  I enjoyed Rome and wished I had more time to see the sights.  I hated Venice with a passion (apparently that makes me odd?).  I had a coworker that went on a tour of Pompei and (I think) Florence and absolutely loved it.

I really enjoyed Paris, there was so much to see and so many museums and architecture.  I strongly recommend including the catacombs on your visit, it was one of my favorite things to see.  I also went to Disneyland Paris (don't laugh). It was my first and only visit to Disneyland, and I had a good time.  

The only downside is that constantly playing tourist for two weeks left me exhausted.   I had a good time, but because I traveled by myself, and was relying solely on guidebooks, I missed out on enjoying the culture of the place.  I ate from food stands and didn't enjoy any sit-down meals.  I hit the touristy spots and didn't visit any markets.  I did stop to see a movie and go paragliding in Switzerland, because I met another American student and we decided to go for it.  I'm afraid of heights, but I'm so glad I did it.     The only tour I went on was the "Sound of Music" tour in Salzburg, Austria.  Complete tourist fluff, but I enjoyed it very much.  Everything about the hostel revolved around the movie.  I hit 5 cities in 4 different countries in 2 weeks.

If and when I return to Europe, I will research the heck out of it.  At that time, other than booking the hostels in advance, I pretty much winged it.  I'd arrive in Austria, I'd go to the ATM to withdraw that country's currency and then I'd buy a guidebook to find out what attractions I should visit.  I'd then go to the info desk and get directions to my hostel.  I'd check into the hostel, drop off my luggage, and then I'd start being a tourist.  It worked well for me then, but I couldn't do such a half-assed trip like that nowadays.  Sadly the world has not become safer in the last 15 years. 

[simser]

Oh another tip! My travel philosophy is to go to the tourist places for the locals of that country. I went to Argentina and didn't go to Ushuaia like every American but went to puerto piramides. Since it's for Argentina tourists it has the infrastructure and because not a lot of Americans are there you still feel like a rebel. (That example was my favorite part of Argentina btw). I did that in Ireland and will be doing that in australia as well. My philosophy is if something is worthwhile, people will know about it, so I don't spend my time avoiding the "beaten path".
Also I think planning is as fun as actually going, hence why I spend a lot of time doing it.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I went to France alone.  I'm really not into tour groups and am ok with my own company, so doing this alone was incredibly liberating.

The one thing I hate is moving from place to place so I tend to find a place, stay put and try to do everything I can in the area.  

For 2 weeks, I'd probably try to stick to one country rather than hit both France and Italy.  I don't think you can do either country justice in so short a time because both have so much to do.  Not only that, every day you travel, that is essentially one lost day....I try to keep lost days to a minimum.

Because I'll spend several days in an area, I don't feel compelled to rush to see everything.  One of my most spectacular days was in the jardins de Luxembourg in Paris.  I was walking through there and there was an orchestra competition going on.  I went and grabbed lunch, went back to a bench and listened to music in beautiful gardens all afternoon.  I spent another afternoon poking through textile shops....marveling over the options if I had room in my luggage.  Neither of these were planned activities, but places I stumbled upon on the way to doing something else.

[justme]

Response in no particular order...

I have no favorite type of photos - I like to take photos of things in an interesting way and that mean something to me. Often with some type of moving life to liven the background. I'm sure I'll find photos wherever I go.

As for packing/moving I haven't taken a lot of long term vacations (at least beyond spending extended time at my family's cottage). Besides a 5 day trip to San Fran and one work trip I extended for a vacay for a total of 7 days and two hotels, all my other vacations were less than a week. (Oh, and there was a 6 week pop up out west trip when I was 9). I'm sure I'll want at least 48 hours in any city, but prob more.

If I did do Paris then a overnight train to Italy seems like the best bet.

As for what excites me - so many things! My first trip to Europe afterall and I've been wanting to go for practically my entire life. I have discovered I'm more ambitious when I'm traveling with someone, much more laissez faire when I'm by myself. I did like taking a tour my first day in SF and then went back to what interested me.

I will want to do a wine tour and a cooking tour/class so if anyone has suggestions for that.

I do like hitting some tourist stuff, but I'm also just as happy (if not more) almost randomly wandering around. Usually I'll set out the day with a rough plan of what direction I'm headed and go from that. Though that was all in places that it's easier/cheaper to go back and see. Part of me worries that I won't see enough if  there's not more structure.

If I focused just on Italy, I know my first thoughts are Rome, Venice, and Almafi Coast. Though The Walk of the Penguin Mich has inadvertently not helped because one image that's always been in my head when I think Europe is an alfresco lunch in front of the Eiffel Tower.

[bobosensei]

I prefer to travel alone rather than with a tour group- especially if the tour group is mostly other Americans.  I find the locals are more willing to connect one on one than with a giant group of tourists (and usually someone does something embarrassingly obnoxious in those groups).

What DH and I do is rip off the itineraries from other places to get our ideas.  For example between Christmas and New Year we are going to do a hiking trip in Portugal.  Got the idea for which towns to stop at from REI, and we've lived in Germany long enough to know how to find the hiking trails.  So we won't get the exact same trip, but we will get a very good one by asking for help from the hotel or other locals we run into.  This is probably easy to do in Italy because it is a popular destination.  If you end up going to Naples send me a PM and I can give you specific recommendations.  When we visited there it was with Italian friends who were from there.  We ate so well.

Our best France trip was through the Loire Valley and visiting the castles.  There are amazing drives through the wineries, and we got fantastic food and wine tour recommendations from the bed and breakfast.  I prefered that to our Paris trip.

[Deleted]

I only saw Versaille and Paris in France and preferred Versaille, but honestly didn't get the loving vibe at all from France that I did in Rome... I'd looove to get back to Italy and just bum around. 

Flying fom place to place within Europe is really cheap however, as long as you pack lightly and take budget airlines, so if you want to get around, consider that an option to at least look into. 

[Deleted]

Oh, if you like the outdoors, stop in iceland on your way back! (Am I getting annoying about iceland?)

[spartan7886]

I'm glad I've checked off Paris, but other than finishing the Louvre, I have no desire to go back. I found the French to live up to their stereotype of being rather less friendly, although I suspect most folks are in comparison to the Dutch I spent the rest of that trip with.

I've done Rome, Florence, and Venice in one trip without a vehicle. I love train travel, as long as you can avoid the gypsy "helpers" at the station. Rome was my favorite, because most of the attractions were outside. DH preferred Florence for the slower pace of life. Venice we were both kind of meh about. If we go back, I think I'd like to stay in Lucca instead of just a day trip. We went because DH's family is from that area, but found out during the planning that it's a big tourist destination for Europeans, just not Americans.

We did the trip planning ourselves and picked up a few day tours here and there. I would recommend getting a guide if you go to Rome and do the Coliseum. Only certain tours get you in the very top and underground levels, and ours added in an hour in the Forum, which I felt the context improved my appreciation of considerably. 

[justme]

Dec 7, 2014 8:45:57 GMT -5 spartan7886 said:

I'm glad I've checked off Paris, but other than finishing the Louvre, I have no desire to go back. I found the French to live up to their stereotype of being rather less friendly, although I suspect most folks are in comparison to the Dutch I spent the rest of that trip with.

I've done Rome, Florence, and Venice in one trip without a vehicle. I love train travel, as long as you can avoid the gypsy "helpers" at the station. Rome was my favorite, because most of the attractions were outside. DH preferred Florence for the slower pace of life. Venice we were both kind of meh about. If we go back, I think I'd like to stay in Lucca instead of just a day trip. We went because DH's family is from that area, but found out during the planning that it's a big tourist destination for Europeans, just not Americans.

We did the trip planning ourselves and picked up a few day tours here and there. I would recommend getting a guide if you go to Rome and do the Coliseum. Only certain tours get you in the very top and underground levels, and ours added in an hour in the Forum, which I felt the context improved my appreciation of considerably. 

Was it a guide just for the Coliseum or was it part of a whole Rome tour?

I could see the comment about French, just based on my interaction with them and Italians and Germans at Epcot. They're hired for being nice and Italy and German are always a lot nicer, unless the French guy is flirting with you. It's too bad my cousin's French family pretty much only speak French - it'd be easier to ask her to ask them to show me around if we spoke the same language.

I look into Lucca. Haven't heard of that. I'm ok with missing a lot of American tourist things.

[spartan7886]

Dec 7, 2014 11:01:28 GMT -5 justme said:

Was it a guide just for the Coliseum or was it part of a whole Rome tour?

I could see the comment about French, just based on my interaction with them and Italians and Germans at Epcot. They're hired for being nice and Italy and German are always a lot nicer, unless the French guy is flirting with you. It's too bad my cousin's French family pretty much only speak French - it'd be easier to ask her to ask them to show me around if we spoke the same language.

I look into Lucca. Haven't heard of that. I'm ok with missing a lot of American tourist things.

www.darkrome.com/tours/rome-tours/colosseum-coliseum-ancient-rome-tour

That's the tour we took. They've got other offerings too.

[Bonny]

Dec 7, 2014 11:01:28 GMT -5 justme said:

Dec 7, 2014 8:45:57 GMT -5 spartan7886 said:

I'm glad I've checked off Paris, but other than finishing the Louvre, I have no desire to go back. I found the French to live up to their stereotype of being rather less friendly, although I suspect most folks are in comparison to the Dutch I spent the rest of that trip with.

I've done Rome, Florence, and Venice in one trip without a vehicle. I love train travel, as long as you can avoid the gypsy "helpers" at the station. Rome was my favorite, because most of the attractions were outside. DH preferred Florence for the slower pace of life. Venice we were both kind of meh about. If we go back, I think I'd like to stay in Lucca instead of just a day trip. We went because DH's family is from that area, but found out during the planning that it's a big tourist destination for Europeans, just not Americans.

We did the trip planning ourselves and picked up a few day tours here and there. I would recommend getting a guide if you go to Rome and do the Coliseum. Only certain tours get you in the very top and underground levels, and ours added in an hour in the Forum, which I felt the context improved my appreciation of considerably. 

Was it a guide just for the Coliseum or was it part of a whole Rome tour?

I could see the comment about French, just based on my interaction with them and Italians and Germans at Epcot. They're hired for being nice and Italy and German are always a lot nicer, unless the French guy is flirting with you. It's too bad my cousin's French family pretty much only speak French - it'd be easier to ask her to ask them to show me around if we spoke the same language.

I look into Lucca. Haven't heard of that. I'm ok with missing a lot of American tourist things.

We LOVED Lucca. Much nicer than Pisa. It's in Tuscany.

I'm a Francophile but not a snob. Think of Paris as being like New York. Big City, people are in a rush. But if you go off the beaten path into the neighborhoods people do open up.

I would love to get my BFF to give tours. @debthaven2 knows her. She's an American teacher too who has lived in France for over 25 years. She has a wicked sense of humor. DH was determined to hate France because of the French people.  He learned to love it when my BFF and he were singing "Dem bones" in the catacombs. Maybe those two bottles of wine at lunch helped.

One of my favorite trips was to Avignon. She was happy to sing ALL of "Sur le Pont d'Avignon" on the bridge. It's an incredibly annoying song. There was wine involved that incident too.

[justme]

Oooh! So if anyone has suggestions of where/how to get healthcare coverage for a trip to Europe. I know some countries have no idea what to do, but I want to be covered and I know my work insurance doesn't except for emergencies and God knows that's open to interpretation.

[Deleted]

Hi Justme

Bonny tagged me a couple of days ago but I was off the boards for a few days because I had some problems with my eyes. I'd be happy to answer any questions about France but I don't usually read this board, and also I have to mark a boatload of finals, so I won't be on much in the next week or so. Please feel free to PM me but again I won't be on much while I mark my finals (which I pick up tomorrow).

For healthcare, I'm used to doing it the other way around, but you can get health insurance with your plane ticket, and you are also covered on your CC, as far as I know. I know we ended up getting a Gold MasterCard for that reason, it offers much better insurance coverage, so we always book our plane tix with that card. Hope that helps. :-)

[Deleted]

I've read / reread the thread. We are not tour people either. You don't need to do one in Europe, IMO, or else do a day tour, ie the landing beaches if you're interested in that (that's just an example). But I probably wouldn't want to travel solo all that time ... maybe do a combination of both? Maybe a 5 day tour and the rest of the time on your own? But of course that's up to you, my kids travel solo all the time, you're my DS1's age (one year older). 

With two weeks, I'd do 2 countries. I'd do no more than 3 places per country. Like Simser, I don't like being constantly on the move. Ideally I like to spend at least 2 nights in each place, because otherwise, you're just arriving somewhere, and leaving the next day. If it's somewhere worth seeing, I'd find that frustrating. 

I don't know much about mainland Italy so I can't help you there. (I've been but many many moons ago).  

If you go to Paris, Versailles is a very easy and doable day trip (and if I'm free I'd be happy to meet up with you for coffee!)

Giverney is another nice day trip from Paris, but it's only open part of the year. 

The problem with Paris is the lines ... they can be crazy. I'm sure everybody has a story about how they "just walked in" to Versailles, or the Louvre, or the Eiffel Tower, but generally, there are major lines for all the major tourist sites. Know that you can now pre-book tix for most major tourist attractions so you can wait less, but those tix can be expensive. 

The Catacombs are great! Average waiting time in summer? 2 hours LOL. 

ETA: A couple of less-frequented museums that are worth seeing are: the Musee Rodin (especially the garden), the Musee Marmottan, the Conciergerie (the prison from the French Revolution). It's VERY YM ... they show you the 3 kinds of prison cells, for the wealthy, the middle-class, and the poor LOL. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

The problem with Paris is the lines ... they can be crazy. I'm sure everybody has a story about how they "just walked in" to Versailles, or the Louvre, or the Eiffel Tower, but generally, there are major lines for all the major tourist sites. Know that you can now pre-book tix for most major tourist attractions so you can wait less, but those tix can be expensive.


One of the longest lines I have ever waited in was getting into Versailles.  I went in July and stood for 3+ hours in the rain to get in.  Louvre wasn't as bad, but the Eiffel tower was pretty bad.

Next time I went was the end of September and the lines were MUCH better....I pretty much remember them as non existent.

I second checking out the Rodin museum.  I found it the last day I was in Paris.....and it was closed.  I made sure to put it at the top of my list for the next visit and it wasn't a disappointment.  And personally, I prefer Musee d'Orsay to the Louvre.

Oh, and in Paris make sure you list which museums you want to see and the days that they are closed.  They are all closed different days and it's a disappointment when you are on your last day and 2/3 places you wanted to see are closed that day.

[justme]

Was planning to avoid the busy season - looking at Sept or Oct. Though I worry about needing warmer clothes in Oct.

Bigger response when I'm not going on my phone later.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I went to Paris the end of September, on my way back from Greece.  I remember it being rainy and chilly, which was a rude awakening after leaving Paros.  I hadn't brought a lot of warmer clothes with me, so wound up wearing the jeans, a t shirt and the only cotton cardigan I bought the entire 5 days I was there as everything else I had packed was just a little too light.  I probably would have been good if I had brought a rain jacket and another pair of pants to wear.

[imanangel]

As you probably know, I live in Italy.  It is a beautiful country.  

I am not a big touristy girl so take this all with a grain of salt.  I hated Rome.  Yeah...the historical things are amazing, but I can't stand how pushy it is.  It is by far the rudest Italian city I have been to.  I think everyone should do it at least once in their life though.  I LOVE Lucca and the Tuscany region.  Florence is one of my favorite places on Earth.  It is a much slower pace of life than Rome and the people are a lot friendlier.  
I also really love the Piedmonte region.  Very beautiful with the mountains.

I love France. I didn't find it rude at all.  I have been to Paris twice, and both times it was amazing.  I have walked right into the Louvre both times I went.  I traveled there in November and December though.  The Eiffel Tower did have long lines during the day both times, but we were able to go up it at night this last time we went.  There was a line, but I think we only waited 15-20 minutes.  We usually rent a flat away from most of the major tourist attractions, but within walking distance of a metro station.  
If you go to Paris, do not buy the Paris Pass.  In my humble opinion, it is a waste of money.  I would just get a museum pass and buy the book of 10 metro passes.  We walked almost everywhere this last time we went.  Oh...and if you are into old cemeteries, I highly recommend a visit to Cimetiere Pere Lachaise.  Maybe I am morbid, but I found it really interesting. Jim Morrison and Oscar Wilde are just a couple of famous people buried there.

[Tennesseer]

Fly into Paris.  Spend a day or two there.  Then take a train to Rome or any other place in Italy which interests you.  I used to always fly into Paris.  Spend a day or two and then take a train to some other country.  It is pretty easy to get around Europe on a train.

[yogiii]

Just FYI...my Mom is American and met my Dad while on a solo vacation in Europe.  No pressure

[justme]

Jan 15, 2015 6:36:29 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Just FYI...my Mom is American and met my Dad while on a solo vacation in Europe.  No pressure

An American or European?

[Tennesseer]

Jan 15, 2015 6:36:29 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Just FYI...my Mom is American and met my Dad while on a solo vacation in Europe.  No pressure

My mom met my dad on the U.S.-held Japanese island of Okinawa at the end of WWII. Mom worked for the U.S. government and dad was with the U.S. army. As a little boy, I thought all single people had to travel to islands like Okinawa or Oahu (engaged parents went there for R&R from duties on Okinawa) to meet other single people to eventually marry.

[yogiii]

Jan 15, 2015 8:48:53 GMT -5 justme said:

Jan 15, 2015 6:36:29 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Just FYI...my Mom is American and met my Dad while on a solo vacation in Europe.  No pressure

An American or European?

He's European.  They lived there for a while, I was born there.