midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Nov 24, 2014 14:25:42 GMT -5
If she had a civil claim against CPS, an attorney would take it on a contingency basis.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 24, 2014 14:28:20 GMT -5
Maybe by the time her husband was diagnosed with lung cancer it was too late to get life insurance. I know I definitely didn't have all my ducks in a row when I was younger. Assuming this is true, it's disgusting. My 10 year old neighbor has been begging to babysit my daughters. I haven't let her, but her parents say she is very responsible. Guess I better not even consider or else I might be reported to CPS. I was 10 when my baby brother was born. We were poor and my mom couldn't afford paid babysitters either. Our grandma watched us a lot, but I watched him a lot while we were home alone, too. Nobody ever reported us, thank goodness. I imagine this woman doesn't have the money or resources to go after CPS for the harm THEY put her children in- which was WAY worse than them being at home alone for a couple of hours.that is of course, unless a fire broke out and they all died..... or someone broke in, or....or....or....
Chances are, if a fire broke out a 10 year old knows enough to get his/her siblings out of the house and call for help.
It really does depend upon the child, a responsible 10 year old can be a better caregiver than an irresponsible 15 year old, but no one blinks if someone hires a 15 year old.
That being said, these children were about the same age as me and my sibs (there are 5 years between the 3 of us) and I remember clearly my parents being an a bowling league when I was around 10. I was left alone with my sibs for a couple hours from about 7-9 each Thursday evening. This was even pre-cell phone, so if we needed something we had to call the bowling alley and they had to page my mom.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,433
|
Post by swamp on Nov 24, 2014 14:28:50 GMT -5
If she had a civil claim against CPS, an attorney would take it on a contingency basis. At least in NY, if your kids are being removed, you have an assigned attorney. And no, not all assigned attorneys suck.
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Nov 24, 2014 14:47:51 GMT -5
I agree that a 10 year old should be able to help children 5 and up out of the house.
Of course, even licensed child-care providers can be horribly irresponsible as well. About a month ago, there was a fire in an at-home daycare in my city. I was heart-broken to read that she got all the children out but "forgot" about a 1 year old. He was found alive and strapped into a over-turned car-seat by firefighters. They didn't even know to get him immediately, so he wasn't found until 25 minutes after the crew arrived. He died at the hospital from his injuries. In this case, social services is not even investigating.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 21,615
|
Post by giramomma on Nov 24, 2014 14:51:33 GMT -5
It cost me $545 a month for ONE pre-school aged child before we put her in public pre-school. It costs me $630 a month for a single infant. I'm not that far away from you. Infant care here now runs 1600/month. We are looking to put the littlest in preschool for 3 half days a week next year. That, plus one day of extended care a week (so 13 hours of class/care a week ) will run us 600/month. That also said, the university I work for has a program where you can apply for childcare assistance if you are a student or lower income employee. The office admin type jobs that seem to be in higher demand pay like 30-35K a year. Janitorial positions pay 25K a year, give or take. There are also resources for folks in emergency type situations that can be found by going in and talking to the dean of students.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,542
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 24, 2014 14:53:46 GMT -5
There was a case here of a daycare worker giving the kids windshield wiper fluid as a drink because she thought it was Kool-aid.
Another co-worker, for some oddball reason, stored her wiper fluid in the fridge and the second one didn't bother to check the label.
None of the kids died but several were hospitalized after drinking it.
This was a licensed daycare ran by supposedly trained competent adults.
At 10 I was pretty confident I shouldn't be feeding my brother wiper fluid. Course my dad wasn't dumb enough to store auto liquids in the kitchen fridge either so there was no opportunity to test that theory. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif)
I'll agree if the law says no, then it means no and don't do it because chances are a neighbor will be peeping and report you.
But engaging in 'what ifs" is pointless because the same things or worse/dumber can happen if an adult is in charge.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Nov 24, 2014 14:54:49 GMT -5
It cost me $545 a month for ONE pre-school aged child before we put her in public pre-school. It costs me $630 a month for a single infant. I'm not that far away from you. Infant care here now runs 1600/month. We are looking to put the littlest in preschool for 3 half days a week next year. That, plus one day of extended care a week (so 13 hours of class/care a week ) will run us 600/month. That also said, the university I work for has a program where you can apply for childcare assistance if you are a student or lower income employee. The office admin type jobs that seem to be in higher demand pay like 30-35K a year. Janitorial positions pay 25K a year, give or take. There are also resources for folks in emergency type situations that can be found by going in and talking to the dean of students. $1600 a month? Holy crap! That's outrageous!
|
|
TheHaitian
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 27, 2014 19:39:10 GMT -5
Posts: 10,144
|
Post by TheHaitian on Nov 24, 2014 14:59:25 GMT -5
Subsidized daycare isn't ever going to happen in the States. Don't want to encourage them poor people to breed like rabbits yanno. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/sarcasm.png) It already happens in the US. All my employees with small kids(except mgrs) get subsidized daycare of after care. I know because I am the one that et the forms or calls asking to verify their wages and hours.
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Nov 24, 2014 15:02:25 GMT -5
I pay $1400/month for my infant, but I'm not subsidized. It costs me $32K/year for two in daycare in my very middle cost of living city.
There was another instance two months ago in a nearby city where yet another fire broke out at 10:00 AM in an at home daycare. I didn't learn as many details, but it was a kitchen fire and a 9 month old and a 22 month old died. Why wasn't she able to get them out? She was the responsible adult supervising after all. And, bad things don't happen to children when adults are supervising.
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Nov 24, 2014 15:06:32 GMT -5
My company actually subsidizes daycare as well if you make under 50K/year. For those who don't work for a generous company with great benefits, there are forms on the department of social services website to apply for childcare assistance.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Nov 24, 2014 15:07:44 GMT -5
Let's look at this from a different perspective.
I'm a neighbor, perhaps the mom of a friend of one of those kids. On a Tuesday evening, the 10 year old knocks on my door, asking if she can "borrow" some milk to give the 5 year old for dinner. I say yes (I'm not going to deny a kid a glass of milk), but ask where their mom is. Oh, she's at school. When will she be home? In a few hours. And then, a week later, something like this happens again. And again the next week. And it becomes clear to me that not only aren't these kids being supervised, they aren't even truly being provided for. I call CPS.
Or perhaps I'm a neighbor who shares a wall with them, and I go over to complain about the loud noise at 9pm at night, and learn there's no adult in the house. Maybe this is the first time I've noticed the noise, maybe it's not. But I'm annoyed that these kids are behaving poorly and there's no adult around. I call CPS.
I'm CPS or the cops. I get a call about 4 unsupervised children, the oldest only being 10 years old. I arrive at the door to a house in terrible condition - neglectful condition. I ask the 10 year old where Mom is, how long Mom has been gone, when Mom will be back. I ask how often this happens. I find out that these kids are left on their own multiple times a week for HOURS. I ask what Mom has told the 10 year old to do in case of emergency. Is there a way to contact Mom? Maybe I get a cell phone number. I try calling it, but don't get an answer. I've got 4 kids living in terrible conditions with no parent around and no way to contact the parent. I take them into protective custody.
I am the after hours placement coordinator on duty. I get a call from the cops- 4 kids, sibling, ages 5-10, 2 boys, 2 girls, need a placement- TONIGHT. I have very few homes even licensed for 4+ kids, and thanks to the foster care shortage, none of those homes actually have the number of beds needed, in the configuration I need (by the age of 5, foster care cannot put a child in a mixed gender bedroom, even with birth siblings, at least in WA). I start reaching out to everyone I can- my emergency placement foster homes, private agencies, and foster home, even ones that say they won't do emergency placement or are supposed to be be foster to adopt only. I have 4 kids who each need a safe place to sleep, a good breakfast, etc. I find them whatever homes I can.
I am the assigned state social worker to this case. My legally mandated, number one goal, is reunification. My job is actually NOT to work in the best interest of the children, though I hope to do so. They will have appointed GALs for that. My job is actually reunification- to help mom do what she needs to do in order to get the kids back. I refer her to whatever services I can. With my referral, many of those become significantly less expensive. I meet with her on a regular basis to check on her progress, give advice, etc. I likely even drive her kids to visits with her. In addition, I work with the lawyer that has been appointed for mom, the lawyer who makes sure that I am acting in the interest of reunification, not what I think would be best for the kids. Mom starts her services, but then falls off. She stops coming to meetings for a while, but shows up just often enough, restarts services always in the right time frame that kids can't become legally free. All this while, we are looking for a home that might be able to take all 4 kids, but the therapist working with the 10 year old actually argues that isn't a good plan. The 10 year old is too parent-ified, and the concern is that, if all the kids were together, the younger siblings would not look to the foster parent for parenting but to the 10 year old. And the 10 year old would likely try and overrule the foster parents when it came to parenting the younger kids.
Two years later, Mom finally completes all of her services, and the kids come home. Foster care was not the greatest experience for them, but that's accepted as a given. Some of the kids have alleged sexual abuse to mom, but never reported it to the social worker or a therapist (or any other mandated reporter). Without an official allegation, (and trust me, from a foster kid, the only thing needed to make an official allegation is a single comment), there's not a whole lot that can be done.
I get sympathy for the Mom. I do. But as a foster parent, as someone who just last month took in a child on an initial (as in never been in foster care before) placement, I understand that motivations of CPS in removing the kids. I know the processes that have to be gone through for a parent to get their child/children back. I know what the jobs of the social workers are. And I know that the parent gets a court appointed attorney, and that some of them are VERY good. (Which is apparently the case for Mini Wheat's family's appointed attorney.)
I don't necessarily doubt the verifiable facts about this case, but I don't believe the mom is telling us the whole story. If you are actually working to get your kids back, it does not take 2 years to complete the services/get done what you need to get done in order to have your kids returned to you.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 3, 2024 4:08:00 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 15:09:40 GMT -5
Bad things do happen even when adults with experience and fully developed brains are in charge. True. Not sure how that makes 10 year old as good or better?
My 13 year old is responsible. She's also 13. She doesn't babysit because, god forbid, if a child died or was seriously hurt in her care that is not something a 13 year needs to live the rest of her life with...
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 3, 2024 4:08:00 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 15:14:30 GMT -5
From what I know about the due process procedures in emergency guardianship/custody matters, the story sounds a little off. Removing a child from the home without providing the parent notice or an opportunity to respond (absent a clear, immediate, irreparable emergency) is a blatant violation of constitutional rights. If CPS screwed up and removed the kids without notice, a judge should have held a hearing and noticed everyone up. If both CPS and the judge screwed up, an appellate court should have ordered an emergency hearing. For her kids to be removed without notice and spend 2 years in foster care, I think there has to be more to the story. ETA - in my state, someone can petition for emergency guardianship and the petition can be granted ex parte (without notice to the parent(s)) ONLY if there is a clear and immediate emergency. And even still, the judge has to set the matter for hearing (after granting emergency guardianship) within 10 days and provide notice to the parents. Removed without notice and in foster care for 2 years? I don't buy it. Yes it's possible there's more to the story but it's also not unheard of that agencies like this sometimes go stupid and overreact.
|
|
TheHaitian
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 27, 2014 19:39:10 GMT -5
Posts: 10,144
|
Post by TheHaitian on Nov 24, 2014 15:17:43 GMT -5
From what I know about the due process procedures in emergency guardianship/custody matters, the story sounds a little off. Removing a child from the home without providing the parent notice or an opportunity to respond (absent a clear, immediate, irreparable emergency) is a blatant violation of constitutional rights. If CPS screwed up and removed the kids without notice, a judge should have held a hearing and noticed everyone up. If both CPS and the judge screwed up, an appellate court should have ordered an emergency hearing. For her kids to be removed without notice and spend 2 years in foster care, I think there has to be more to the story. ETA - in my state, someone can petition for emergency guardianship and the petition can be granted ex parte (without notice to the parent(s)) ONLY if there is a clear and immediate emergency. And even still, the judge has to set the matter for hearing (after granting emergency guardianship) within 10 days and provide notice to the parents. Removed without notice and in foster care for 2 years? I don't buy it. Yes it's possible there's more to the story but it's also not unheard of that agencies like this sometimes go stupid and overreact. And they don't have an easy job! If something bad happened and the media finds out that CPS was called to the house, the public would be asking for their heads on a silver platter. They react fast they are called stupid for over reacting. Damn if they do, damn if they don't. Personally I rather read about them overacting and the kids are safe then them not reacting fast enough an a kid was abused or worse dead.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Nov 24, 2014 15:18:18 GMT -5
There's almost definitely more to the story, given that the story is not a researched piece of journalism, but simply one person's account of her own experience. Those kinds of one-sided stories are never the full truth...even if the full truth isn't that bad and may still reveal that the authorities went too far.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 3, 2024 4:08:00 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 15:23:01 GMT -5
Yes it's possible there's more to the story but it's also not unheard of that agencies like this sometimes go stupid and overreact. And they don't have an easy job! If something bad happened and the media finds out that CPS was called to the house, the public would be asking for their heads on a silver platter. They react fast they are called stupid for over reacting. Damn if they do, damn if they don't. Personally I rather read about them overacting and the kids are safe then them not reacting fast enough an a kid was abused or worse dead. There's no doubt they have a tough job and it's a kind of no-win situation for them a lot of times. But sometimes, they do go full dumbass. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it does sometimes happen.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,433
|
Post by swamp on Nov 24, 2014 15:30:32 GMT -5
From what I know about the due process procedures in emergency guardianship/custody matters, the story sounds a little off. Removing a child from the home without providing the parent notice or an opportunity to respond (absent a clear, immediate, irreparable emergency) is a blatant violation of constitutional rights. If CPS screwed up and removed the kids without notice, a judge should have held a hearing and noticed everyone up. If both CPS and the judge screwed up, an appellate court should have ordered an emergency hearing. For her kids to be removed without notice and spend 2 years in foster care, I think there has to be more to the story. ETA - in my state, someone can petition for emergency guardianship and the petition can be granted ex parte (without notice to the parent(s)) ONLY if there is a clear and immediate emergency. And even still, the judge has to set the matter for hearing (after granting emergency guardianship) within 10 days and provide notice to the parents. Removed without notice and in foster care for 2 years? I don't buy it. Yes it's possible there's more to the story but it's also not unheard of that agencies like this sometimes go stupid and overreact. agencies over react, but the court makes them prove their case.
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Nov 24, 2014 15:33:06 GMT -5
Sure -- but like Shane said, even if they were completely wrong for removing the kids, it shouldn't take 2 years and multiple inspections/contingencies to return them to their home.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,433
|
Post by swamp on Nov 24, 2014 15:33:49 GMT -5
Sure -- but like Shane said, even if they were completely wrong for removing the kids, it shouldn't take 2 years and multiple inspections/contingencies to return them to their home. I've seen some emergency removals where the court immediately returned the kids. and reamed the social services department for their dumb decision.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Nov 24, 2014 15:49:08 GMT -5
Sure -- but like Shane said, even if they were completely wrong for removing the kids, it shouldn't take 2 years and multiple inspections/contingencies to return them to their home. I've seen some emergency removals where the court immediately returned the kids. and reamed the social services department for their dumb decision. This. And unfortunately, I've seen several cases that were a lot more like the scenario Shanendoah described. In every one of those cases, the parents' story was that there was no good reason to remove the kids or that the parents were being discriminated against. DCFS isn't able to disclose any details or dispute the parents' story because of confidentiality laws, so of course the reporter wouldn't find anything to dispute the story by doing an online search. The only way to (potentially) discover details would be for the reporter to talk to the neighbors and any non-DCFS people who may have witnessed anything and those would be hard to find.
So it's pretty easy for the parents to claim whatever they want.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,433
|
Post by swamp on Nov 24, 2014 15:52:40 GMT -5
Here's a common one: Mom lives with a pedophile. As in a convicted one, not just suspected. She believes that social services took her kids away for no good reason. He's not a pedophile, he was framed, and he didn't offend against her kid. Her kid is lying about it. Because, you know, 3 year olds lie about being sexually abused.
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Nov 24, 2014 16:24:57 GMT -5
I'm not buying it. Bits and pieces of the story are probably true, but I'm betting there is a whole lot left out. I do take exception to the part where she states something along the lines of "It wasn't like I was in a bar or something." Your home can burn down just as easily when you are in school as it can if you are sitting on a bar stool. Location and motivation aren't determining factors in whan can or can't happen. She is making excuses for her shitty decisions (blamed the idea on a friend, actually). No telling what else she makes excuses for.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Nov 24, 2014 17:02:08 GMT -5
So now I've actually read the letter, here are my thoughts upon reading it.
If moving in with her parents was an option after CPS intervention, why wasn't it an option before?
How were the kids being left alone for only a "few" hours a day, when she was in school "several" hours a day, AND a neighbor would have thought she could be taking the kids with her when she walked to school? I can't believe that the only reason the neighbor called CPS was because she saw the mom walking to school without the kids, because how would the neighbor KNOW there wasn't a babysitter there? Something else was going on.
The kids knew where she was- in college classes. Did they know her exact schedule? Did they know which classroom she was in at any given time? Did they know how to contact her in that classroom? It doesn't matter if the kids (or anyone else) knows exactly where someone is if there is no way to contact them. She complains that an officer didn't track her down in her classroom, but is that what she would have expected the 10 year old to do if there had been an emergency at home? And since this was likely an evening class, there would not have been an option to call the school to try and find her (because the college offices would have been closed).
Regardless of the original, primary reason for kids to be removed from a home, if, upon investigation, the court sees other problems, it would be remiss if it didn't act on those problems.
The kids weren't originally removed from the home due to absences from school, but probably upon investigation, it was found that the kids had a high absentee rate, perhaps high enough it was endangering their ability to be promoted to the next grade. (I don't for a moment believe there was a 0 tolerance policy for kids missing school- social workers and courts KNOW kids get sick. But there was probably a 0 tolerance for kids missing school and the social workers NOT being notified.)
If, when the officers arrived at the home to check on the kids, they found the home in an unsanitary condition, then the court has a duty to make sure it is in sanitary shape before the children are returned to it. If the oven needed to be cleaned, it was probably bad enough that it was considered a fire hazard. Social workers don't care about a single cobweb in the corner, but if your home is covered in cobwebs, yes, they are likely to require that the house be cleaned, especially if those cobwebs could be spider webs and you live in an area with poisonous spiders. (In my mind, this is a case where the mom is technically writing the truth, but using language in such a way as to minimize the actual issues, make them seem singular and minor while trying to make the social workers seem ridiculous and over the top.)
Now, I will admit, I'm biased here. The first time Pop Tart came into care it was because at age 5/6, she was left home alone in charge of her 3 younger siblings. After 24 hours of her mom being gone, she had to go to a neighbor to get some formula the baby. Pop Tart and two of her siblings were returned to her mom (the 3rd, a half sibling, went to live with his father's family). Two years later, when Pop Tart permanently came into care, the official reason was unsafe living conditions. Mom was also a drug addict. Would it have been right of the courts to return Pop Tart and her youngest sibling (other sibling had since gone to live with a family friend/distant relative) to her mom if she had simply moved to a new place? Or was it right in saying - we didn't take your kids away because you're an addict, but you have to get clean before you get your kids back?
Working in the system as I do, I believe there is a lot more to this story than this woman is telling us. She is making her case, from her point of view, but as someone else mentioned, no one at the State can respond. The state social workers, lawyers, GALs etc, don't have the legal right to share any information about this family, unless Mom gives them permission to. So the likelihood of us ever getting the full story is nil, even if the reporter were to fully investigate. (At least in this state, records from these types of cases are not open to the public and aren't subject to journalistic discovery, due to privacy of the minors involved.)
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Nov 24, 2014 17:02:31 GMT -5
It sounds like there is a lot that's not adding up. And even if she "only" left her kids alone while she went to class, I definitely don't agree with that decision. If that was all she did, I don't agree with automatically having her kids taken away, either. But it sounds like there's a lot more to the story.
And the point about parents justifying their choices and saying whatever they want regardless of facts is well taken.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Nov 24, 2014 17:04:04 GMT -5
If moving in with her parents was an option after CPS intervention, why wasn't it an option before?
I wondered that too, but chalked it up to her probably not wanting to uproot her four kids, potentially having to sell a house, etc. There are a lot of reasons why moving wouldn't have been her first choice. Not all of them are shady.
|
|
gooddecisions
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by gooddecisions on Nov 24, 2014 17:08:49 GMT -5
If moving in with her parents was an option after CPS intervention, why wasn't it an option before?
I wondered that too, but chalked it up to her probably not wanting to uproot her four kids, potentially having to sell a house, etc. There are a lot of reasons why moving wouldn't have been her first choice. Not all of them are shady. And, maybe it wasn't before. Maybe her parents told her to figure it out. But, then she had them taken away, so they became more accommodating. Not every body's parents are going to jump at the opportunity to take back their grown daughter and her 4 children- even if her husband died of lung cancer. Who knows. All we can do is speculate. I tend to read things at face value, because we don't know it's not true.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Nov 24, 2014 17:09:06 GMT -5
She complains that an officer didn't track her down in her classroom, but is that what she would have expected the 10 year old to do if there had been an emergency at home?
Personally, if I were in this position (I honestly don't believe I would be, but if I were) then I would have my phone out, on my desk, where I could easily see it. It could be in silent mode but I would need to be able to see if it was lighting up with a text or call.
It's one thing to leave your kids alone for a few hours. In my book, that's irresponsible but shit happens and we all make errors in judgment as parents. But no adult supervision AND not being reachable? That pushes it from "judgment lapse" to "neglect" in my book.
Just me, though.
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Nov 24, 2014 17:25:03 GMT -5
So now I'm curious - what are cleanliness standards for one's home before CPS steps in? I know from watching Hoarders (I've only seen a couple episodes; that show really upsets me) that kids can definitely be taken away if the home isn't liveable even if they're otherwise "fine."
But is there a measurable standard that CPS uses? Or is it a case by case judgment?
I've known a couple of hoarders. In fact, one of my Facebook friends occasionally posts pictures of her house (God knows why) and I would describe her as a borderline hoarder. When does CPS step in? When is it appropriate for outsiders to step in?
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Nov 24, 2014 17:29:36 GMT -5
It's the joy of language and making assumptions.
She very clearly states that her children knew exactly where she was. But she does not say, anywhere, that her children knew how to get a hold of her. She wants us to equate knowing where she is with being able to contact her, but they are absolutely not the same thing. My kids don't need to know my physical location if they can pick up a phone and call me. And honestly, if they can't pick up a phone and call me, knowing my physical location doesn't really matter if it's not in the house/yard/right next door, etc. (I once had a very bad bloody nose when my mom was next door. I didn't go over to get her; I called.)
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Nov 24, 2014 17:30:04 GMT -5
So now I'm curious - what are cleanliness standards for one's home before CPS steps in? I know from watching Hoarders (I've only seen a couple episodes; that show really upsets me) that kids can definitely be taken away if the home isn't liveable even if they're otherwise "fine." But is there a measurable standard that CPS uses? Or is it a case by case judgment? I've known a couple of hoarders. In fact, one of my Facebook friends occasionally posts pictures of her house (God knows why) and I would describe her as a borderline hoarder. When does CPS step in? When is it appropriate for outsiders to step in? For "home visits" there is an actual check list. It has items like "are all medicines and cleaning supplies stored in a locked/inaccessible place?" "Is there evidence of vermin?" etc.
It is a little bit of a weird system, though, in that there are items on the home visit checklist that mean you fail that home visit. So if you need a clean home visit, those things have to be addressed. On the other hand, if you have one of those conditions in your home when CPS visits, that doesn't necessarily mean your kids are taken away.
In Phoenix, even being homeless wasn't enough by itself to mean the kids were removed.
|
|