Active shooter drills in school

[chen35]

Lots of bad things happen in life, doesn't mean I need to have a traumatizing drill. We talk to the kids about what to do if they are approached by a stranger. I don't hire a stranger to try to lure them into their vehicle. If the school was doing this kind of drill, I would want to know beforehand (not necessarily the exact day and time) so I could have a conversation with my kid to prepare them for what will happen. I don't see how that is a bad thing?

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2014 14:51:39 GMT -5 chen35 said:

Lots of bad things happen in life, doesn't mean I need to have a traumatizing drill. We talk to the kids about what to do if they are approached by a stranger. I don't hire a stranger to try to lure them into their vehicle. If the school was doing this kind of drill, I would want to know beforehand (not necessarily the exact day and time) so I could have a conversation with my kid to prepare them for what will happen. I don't see how that is a bad thing?

Test your kid. Doesn't matter you talk to them of stranger when they are small. They still go. News had "testing" kids show and most fail. Parents very upset that after all the talking the kid still went with stranger to find lost pet. Talk is nothing. Action everything.

I think I am upset for the drill but get over it when I think about it. Face to face with barrel of gun is exaggeration. If your kid never seen a gun, how do they know real or fake? Your kid not prepared for real world. This is not a bubble to live in now.

[chen35]

The chances of an active shooter on campus is still slim to none. I think traumatizing every kid in every school on the off chance it happens does more damage than it does good. Why not just talk to the kids, let them know throughout the year, this sort of drill could happen? Help prepare them. I have no issue with the drill, would just like to prepare my kid for the possibility. Not sure how that makes them any less prepared if the actual thing happens?

[Deleted]

As a parent with a child at Virginia Tech, I'm all for them.  not sure if the kids' high school does them but I know they've had multiple lockdowns throughout the years. 

[midwestlily]

I had no idea that these were becoming so common, although I can understand why.  I just heard today that we'll be having one here on campus (university) next week, while most of the students and employees are gone.  Glad I had some warning.  

[teen persuasion]

I heard this story on the news, but didn't read the link.  My biggest problem with the incident is if staff did not know this was a drill.  They should have had some idea that a drill was coming.

Our schools do lockdown drills, but I don't think they have done active shooter drills, yet.  The HS had a lockout last week, due to a small fire at the facility adjacent (which makes pesticides).  Totally precautionary in case of chemical leaks, and the kids didn't know what went on or why; I only found out when I saw it on the news (completely overblown).  Not sure why they term it a lockout, when it was really a lock in - no one was allowed out until the all clear was given.

Last night DH and his fire company did a complete walk thru of the ES, since an earlier fire drill or something brought to light nooks and crannies where people could hide.  They visited basements and crawl spaces, and a new addition.

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2014 15:01:35 GMT -5 chen35 said:

The chances of an active shooter on campus is still slim to none. I think traumatizing every kid in every school on the off chance it happens does more damage than it does good. Why not just talk to the kids, let them know throughout the year, this sort of drill could happen? Help prepare them. I have no issue with the drill, would just like to prepare my kid for the possibility. Not sure how that makes them any less prepared if the actual thing happens?

How do you say this with more shootings at schools every year?

[TheOtherMe]

District here does the ALICE drills, both lockdown and active shooter.  DS teaches pre-k.  She says the ALICE drills are totally different than the ones from last school year when they were to lock themselves in the classroom.  Now they are to have the kids creating chaos.  If need be, the two teachers in the room are to start throwing the kids out the windows.  She said the parents are very aware of the procedures.  I do not know if they have a heads up to the parents before the drills.

The high school in my small town has been on lockdown after a student threatened to commit suicide in the parking lot.  Authorities were able to talk him down and get him medical attention.

[chen35]

Nov 21, 2014 17:59:17 GMT -5 @taliare said:

Nov 21, 2014 15:01:35 GMT -5 chen35 said:

The chances of an active shooter on campus is still slim to none. I think traumatizing every kid in every school on the off chance it happens does more damage than it does good. Why not just talk to the kids, let them know throughout the year, this sort of drill could happen? Help prepare them. I have no issue with the drill, would just like to prepare my kid for the possibility. Not sure how that makes them any less prepared if the actual thing happens?

How do you say this with more shootings at schools every year?

The are more and more, I'm not denying that. And it is scary. But I think this article sums up how I feel pretty well:

www.educationnews.org/parenting/although-school-shootings-are-rare-stats-dont-quiet-fears/

"Finklehor calls this kind of mindset “cognitive bias.” Our brains tend to automatically overestimate the possibility of the most horrific and extreme events. They retain a tight grip on our imaginations, and we tend to focus on them at the expense of dangers that are much more immediate and likely."

Again. I'm not saying it isn't scary, and that it's not a serious issue that doesn't need to be dealt with, but it's still just not that likely. 

[Phoenix84]

They had active shooter drills when I was in school. The procedure was that the principal would announce on the loudspeaker for a particular student's name (a code word) should come to the office. The teachers were to lock the classroom doors.

No big deal.

[whoisjohngalt]

Nov 21, 2014 15:01:35 GMT -5 chen35 said:

The chances of an active shooter on campus is still slim to none. I think traumatizing every kid in every school on the off chance it happens does more damage than it does good. Why not just talk to the kids, let them know throughout the year, this sort of drill could happen? Help prepare them. I have no issue with the drill, would just like to prepare my kid for the possibility. Not sure how that makes them any less prepared if the actual thing happens?

And yet, many people want all kind of changes to gun laws.

So, are we taking those shooting seriously or are we not?

[busymom]

They do lockdown drills at DS's school. But, the staff IS informed ahead of time. The kids can't leave the building for ANY reason during these drills, which is kind of a pain, BUT, if the staff knows ahead of time, for example, that you're picking your kid up for a doctor appointment, they'll tell you to get there early, because once the drill begins, no one gets in or out of the school building.

[mskay]

I teach in a high school in the inner city.  Most kids have cell phones with cameras and video.  If they did an active shooter drill without notifying people it would cause chaos especially since we are now told to fight back if they get in the room.  Actually just seeing the police entering the school in numbers would lead to chaos and someone might get shot.  We have school police, the city police and the L.A. County Sheriffs the amount of coordinating so that people with real guns don't show up would be mind boggling.  Plus all the media that would show up once the kids started loading pictures.  We had a lock down because someone was resisting arrest across the street and all the kids were uploading pictures to twitter, instagram, snap chat and kick something.  This is despite the fact that everyone was supposed to stay on the floor where they couldn't be seen through the windows.  The teachers were getting information from their students!  

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2014 18:33:56 GMT -5 chen35 said:

Nov 21, 2014 17:59:17 GMT -5 @taliare said:

How do you say this with more shootings at schools every year?

The are more and more, I'm not denying that. And it is scary. But I think this article sums up how I feel pretty well:

www.educationnews.org/parenting/although-school-shootings-are-rare-stats-dont-quiet-fears/

"Finklehor calls this kind of mindset “cognitive bias.” Our brains tend to automatically overestimate the possibility of the most horrific and extreme events. They retain a tight grip on our imaginations, and we tend to focus on them at the expense of dangers that are much more immediate and likely."

Again. I'm not saying it isn't scary, and that it's not a serious issue that doesn't need to be dealt with, but it's still just not that likely. 

3 schools here have active shooter problem in a year. Other schools lockdown for criminal in area when police chase going on. It is real problem to me.

[Firebird]

Actually, I quite like the idea of asking a coworker or friend your kid doesn't know to drive by and ask them for directions, or to help them find their lost puppy or whatever. Maybe even try to pick them up from school. It would be a great opportunity to discuss how to react if the real thing happens. And with zero risk to the child.

[hoops902]

The difference between fire drills, tornado drills, and active shooter drills is that in active shooter drills there is a person who means to do harm.  What happens when one of these drills occurs and a teacher, student, random person visiting ends up shooting, stabbing, or otherwise injuring someone because they had no clue it was a drill?  Someone is going to end up getting hurt, potentially killed.

In many of these cases, it's not just a drill, it's an actual walked through scenario.  They get someone who pretends to be the shooter, they get police going through, etc.  In a real life fire drill someone doesn't go light the building on fire to simulate the fire.  My primary concern is that these drills can get very realistic and that someone's going to get hurt due to the realism, and the fact that teachers don't actually know what's going on. 

[Firebird]

My primary concern is that these drills can get very realistic and that someone's going to get hurt due to the realism, and the fact that teachers don't actually know what's going on. 

Ditto, especially if it's true that many teachers are packing heat now. 

[weltschmerz]

Nov 21, 2014 18:33:56 GMT -5 chen35 said:

Nov 21, 2014 17:59:17 GMT -5 @taliare said:

How do you say this with more shootings at schools every year?

The are more and more, I'm not denying that. And it is scary. But I think this article sums up how I feel pretty well:

www.educationnews.org/parenting/although-school-shootings-are-rare-stats-dont-quiet-fears/

"Finklehor calls this kind of mindset “cognitive bias.” Our brains tend to automatically overestimate the possibility of the most horrific and extreme events. They retain a tight grip on our imaginations, and we tend to focus on them at the expense of dangers that are much more immediate and likely."

Again. I'm not saying it isn't scary, and that it's not a serious issue that doesn't need to be dealt with, but it's still just not that likely. 

There's a mass shooting in the US every two weeks.

Not exactly "slim to none".

[hoops902]

Nov 24, 2014 13:46:19 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Nov 21, 2014 18:33:56 GMT -5 chen35 said:

The are more and more, I'm not denying that. And it is scary. But I think this article sums up how I feel pretty well:

www.educationnews.org/parenting/although-school-shootings-are-rare-stats-dont-quiet-fears/

"Finklehor calls this kind of mindset “cognitive bias.” Our brains tend to automatically overestimate the possibility of the most horrific and extreme events. They retain a tight grip on our imaginations, and we tend to focus on them at the expense of dangers that are much more immediate and likely."

Again. I'm not saying it isn't scary, and that it's not a serious issue that doesn't need to be dealt with, but it's still just not that likely. 

There's a mass shooting in the US every two weeks.

Not exactly "slim to none".

How many of those are in schools?  How many schools are there in the US?

Let's assume every one of those mass shootings is in a school, so 26.  If you don't even count count post-secondary institutions or private schools, there are approximately 100,000 public schools.  So 26 out of 100,000...or .026%.  How is that not "slim to none"?  You account for the fact that I assume you actually mean "mass shooting" and not "mass shooting in a school", and we are at less than 26, throw in private schools and post-secondary schools and the 100,000 increases...both acting to make the % smaller.

[weltschmerz]

Nov 24, 2014 14:01:12 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Nov 24, 2014 13:46:19 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

There's a mass shooting in the US every two weeks.

Not exactly "slim to none".

How many of those are in schools?  How many schools are there in the US?

Let's assume every one of those mass shootings is in a school, so 26.  If you don't even count count post-secondary institutions or private schools, there are approximately 100,000 public schools.  So 26 out of 100,000...or .026%.  How is that not "slim to none"?  You account for the fact that I assume you actually mean "mass shooting" and not "mass shooting in a school", and we are at less than 26, throw in private schools and post-secondary schools and the 100,000 increases...both acting to make the % smaller.

A shark attack would be slim to none. Being kidnapped by terrorists would be slim to none. Having a house fall on you would be slim to none.

Having a mass shooting every two weeks is, frankly, mind-boggling.

[hoops902]

Nov 24, 2014 14:03:48 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Nov 24, 2014 14:01:12 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

How many of those are in schools?  How many schools are there in the US?

Let's assume every one of those mass shootings is in a school, so 26.  If you don't even count count post-secondary institutions or private schools, there are approximately 100,000 public schools.  So 26 out of 100,000...or .026%.  How is that not "slim to none"?  You account for the fact that I assume you actually mean "mass shooting" and not "mass shooting in a school", and we are at less than 26, throw in private schools and post-secondary schools and the 100,000 increases...both acting to make the % smaller.

A shark attack would be slim to none. Being kidnapped by terrorists would be slim to none. Having a house fall on you would be slim to none.

Having a mass shooting every two weeks is, frankly, mind-boggling.

Being mind-boggling doesn't change the fact that it's still slim to none.  Particularly since we're talking about the probability of a mass shooting in a school.  I actually can't even find any info to back up the claim of one every 2 weeks as it relates to "mass shootings". 

[hoops902]

And for the record, there were 53 shark attacks in the US in 2013...in a lot fewer than 100,000 locations.  So you're far far FAR more likely to be attacked by a shark than to be in a school attacked by a mass shooter (not shot by the mass shooter, to even be in the school at all).

[weltschmerz]

Nov 24, 2014 14:21:06 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Nov 24, 2014 14:03:48 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

A shark attack would be slim to none. Being kidnapped by terrorists would be slim to none. Having a house fall on you would be slim to none.

Having a mass shooting every two weeks is, frankly, mind-boggling.

Being mind-boggling doesn't change the fact that it's still slim to none.  Particularly since we're talking about the probability of a mass shooting in a school.  I actually can't even find any info to back up the claim of one every 2 weeks as it relates to "mass shootings". 

Here you go.

www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/18/mass-killings-common/1778303/

www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/12/12/the-school-shootings-you-didn-t-hear-about-one-every-two-weeks-since-newtown.html

[hoops902]

Nov 24, 2014 14:26:55 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Nov 24, 2014 14:21:06 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Being mind-boggling doesn't change the fact that it's still slim to none.  Particularly since we're talking about the probability of a mass shooting in a school.  I actually can't even find any info to back up the claim of one every 2 weeks as it relates to "mass shootings". 

Here you go.

www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/18/mass-killings-common/1778303/

That same article indicates that more people died from falling out of chairs and migraines than by mass killings.  And three times as many died from sunstroke.  About 1% of everyone who dies in a year is attributable to mass killings.  How does this not fit in the "slim to none" category?  Should we run "falling from a chair" drills in schools?  Mass shootings certainly happen in schools, but not nearly as much as people like to sensationalize.

[weltschmerz]

A mass shooting every two weeks is mind-boggling TO ME.

If it's not mind-boggling TO YOU, that's perfectly OK.

[hoops902]

Nov 24, 2014 14:46:38 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

A mass shooting every two weeks is mind-boggling TO ME.

If it's not mind-boggling TO YOU, that's perfectly OK.

It's not mind boggling to me, I understand it...that has zero to do with the statistical frequency with which it happens though.  You seem to be confusing whether you understand a situation with the statistical frequency with which it happens.  Your claim was in regards to how frequently it happens, but your argument is simply that you don't understand it. 

You're focused on the sensationality of it all rather than whether the event is prevalent.  It's like someone who freaks out about dying in a fiery airplane crash but thinks nothing of driving their car around dangerously.  One is sensationalized over the other...and in most cases it is sensationalized specifically because it rarely happens.  Same with school shootings, terrorist attacks, etc...people freak out about them because they are news...they are news because they are rare in comparison to nearly everything else that is far more deadly and far more likely to happen.