Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 21, 2014 11:48:26 GMT -5
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Nov 21, 2014 11:53:29 GMT -5
I'm not opposed to a drill, but the parents and students should have been told about it before hand.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 21, 2014 11:55:10 GMT -5
We have them at Gwen's school. Yes I think it is important and should be allowed. I'd love to live in a bubble and think it could never happen here, but it totally could. I want my child to know where to go, stay put and be accounted for. I view it as no different than a fire drill.
They had the active shooter drill a few weeks ago. Gwen didn't do too well with it because she didn't realize it was fake. It was going on after school while she was at Kids & Co. DH arrived to pick her up and couldn't figure out where she was. Then he heard her freaking out in the office and he was told a drill was going on.
He handled it very well. She's been thru fire/tornado drills before so DH explained that this was the same thing. They had to "pretend" and practice so that if there was a real emergency they would know what to do. She seems to have understood.
It broke DH's heart to hear her freaking out, but we'd rather she be freaked out during a drill vs have her learn about it when it actually happens.
ETA: After reading the article I think that was overkill. At Gwen's school the active shooter drills are scheduled just like fire/tornado drills so the teachers know what is going on and the students do. We didn't know about it till after the fact, but now that we know they do active shooter drills we expect more in the future.
Gwen's drills do not involve actual policemen and guns. It DOES involve a volunteer pretending to be the shooter and trying to get into classrooms/locked areas. That's partly to teach the kids and partly to test for holes in the safety protocols of the school.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 21, 2014 11:58:45 GMT -5
I usually find out about them after the fact as the school sends home notes. I figure it's kinda like the fire drills but I'm not happy about it. But I'd rather be not happy about it and it be useless than be mourning a dead kid - mine or anyone else's in the school.
ETA - I read the article. The drills at my kids' school do not included officers brandishing real guns. It's more of the "listen to the teachers and hide here, here or there." type thing as I understand it.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Nov 21, 2014 12:17:38 GMT -5
I'd be pissed about this as a parent. I think the teachers should know about a drill (or the possibility that a drill might happen on a particular day). I can see that attempting to get the teachers to NOT prep their kids for a 'surprise' drill would be almost impossible but I'd hope that adminisitration would some how try to convince the teachers that the teachers weren't being graded or reviewed or whatever on the drill. I live in an area with a crazy irrational powerful Teacher's Union which has created a crazy irrational stressed out teaching staff.
I think maybe they should have somewhat 'surprise' drills - the kids and the teachers need to be able to do what they need to do automatically - no hysteria, no freaking out, no chaos. And you build up that kind of a response by doing it over and over and over under different conditions.
I work in a high rise office building and while we do get some warning when Fire Drills will be conducted we never know what exits might be blocked or what floors ew will be told to move to or if we will be 'judged' on what we are taking out with us (cup of coffee? where's our emergency kit? where the 'meet up place' for your group if the building is evacuated? OR what's the phone number to call to check in that you are safe? if you can't get to the meet up place? and on and on).
FWIW: a month a go a parent caused a total lock down at a local gradeschool - the parent got confused as to how to exit the school after a meeting in the main office and disrupted a class... the school went on lock down, the police came, the fire department came, the Swat Team came, there were news helicopters hover over the school. It took the authorities 2 HOURS to sort out what happened. The teachers and kids were stuck in their rooms waiting without any info for upto 2 HOURS (while being able to hear the helicopters/emergency vehicles and swat teams going thru the school.
It was quite the fiasco.
I think the schools have good procedures for going into lockdown - I think they now need some sort of procedure for deciding if they SHOULD go into lockdown.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 21, 2014 12:41:40 GMT -5
We never had drills until last year.
My kids were in a lockdown, due to a parent we know. Dad was known to have guns and wrote a letter threatening to kill several people, his wife and children included.
We didn't actually know our kids were in a real lock down, until we read it on the local news websites.
The teachers didn't tell the kids what was going on. I'm not sure the teachers knew what to do. But my kids were not freaked out, scared or paralyzed by the REAL deal. They got the kids to safety as best they could. My kids were more freaked out about the armed guards at the school entrance that remained until the dad was taken into custody than by the lockdown.
Every time, there after, the kids have surprise lockdown drills. They still don't call them lockdown drills. I personally wold not appreciate the re-inactment to include an unloaded gun. What happens if they grab a loaded on by accident?
At our school, they don't announce the drills to parents. I think it wold be weird if they did.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Nov 21, 2014 12:51:58 GMT -5
The local school system has a text notification system. If I'm going to hear about a drill, it'll be by that when it has started. I assume because some kids may text parents and freak them out. There have been lockdowns due to other reasons, which we were alerted about by the text system. I don't think they've had any active shooter drills with kids in the buildings. I've seen news reports about the drills in empty buildings on the weekends. I'd rather they did have some practice with kids in place to get a feel for how it's different with so many people underfoot. (Disclaimer: didn't bother reading the article)
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Nov 21, 2014 13:03:21 GMT -5
Pop Tart's school has lock down drills. We hear about them in the evening when we ask her about her day in school. They've also had a couple "partial" lock downs (basically kids don't get to go outside at recess) because of things going on in the neighborhood (suspect on the loose type thing).
Given that Pop Tart has major anxiety issues, I appreciate the drills because they have made it so that the partial lock downs haven't really upset her. But, the drills don't come with real guns, or an ACTIVE police presence.
Drills to do come with a passive police presence, just as fire drills come with a passive firefighter presence.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Nov 21, 2014 13:09:20 GMT -5
I grew up in the era of air siren drill for nuclear attacks!
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 21, 2014 13:22:46 GMT -5
I actually think it's a good idea to have real fire fighters and real SWAT team people to show up in full uniform for these practices.
If you had a real situation, with a real fire or real shooter, the kids might be so frightened of the firemen or cops, due to their outfits, that they might hide from them, or run away from them. It's important that they know what the 'good' guys look like.
I would have let the teachers know in advance, though. SOmething like "we're having a shooter drill sometime this week.' You never know when one of them might have a gun in the classroom for just this situation.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 21, 2014 13:24:10 GMT -5
I would have let the teachers know in advance, though. SOmething like "we're having a shooter drill sometime this week.' You never know when one of them might have a gun in the classroom for just this situation.
Um... you don't? That's news to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 13:27:59 GMT -5
Some states/school districts allow teachers to be armed.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 21, 2014 13:29:36 GMT -5
I think it's a great idea. What is the difference between that and fire drills?
Then again, I might be the wrong person to ask bc
1. I grew up in a school system where starting in 9th grade we had a class on military education that included shooting rifles
2. I am very pro-guns in general
Oh and if my kids were in regular school, they would have learned everything they could about guns way before they started school.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Nov 21, 2014 13:31:35 GMT -5
I wonder if the drill was supposed to be as much for practice for the police as the kids. I don't otherwise understand the need to have police going room to room through the school. Students and teachers should have been warned that it was a drill.
My kids have been doing the lockdown type drills since Newtown though. Even in my DD's daycare they do them. Their schools lock the classrooms & the kid's hide though. So no one would be bursting in with a weapon unless they had a key.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 21, 2014 13:31:57 GMT -5
This would piss me the fuck off:
"police officers then burst into classrooms brandishing guns, including an unloaded AR-15 rifle,"
Drills are one thing. That is terrifying. *I* would have nightmares for weeks!
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 21, 2014 13:32:49 GMT -5
I would have let the teachers know in advance, though. SOmething like "we're having a shooter drill sometime this week.' You never know when one of them might have a gun in the classroom for just this situation.
Um... you don't? That's news to me. So teachers are armed, some body busts into the class room with an assault rife.... and no 'drills' are told about beforehand? Yeah, that sounds like a great idea.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 13:33:13 GMT -5
I remember having nuclear war drills. Like heading to the basement would have helped.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 21, 2014 13:33:28 GMT -5
I grew up in the era of air siren drill for nuclear attacks! Yep. I grew up next to a nuclear site. Whee!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 21, 2014 13:34:05 GMT -5
My parents had to hide under their desk during air raid drills. What good is hiding under your desk going to do if Russia drops the bomb?
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Nov 21, 2014 13:36:24 GMT -5
I cannot comment from the school aspect, at least not on a personal level. My niece's high school has the drills now; they had a student enter the school and shoot several students in the cafeteria two years ago. Injuries, but no deaths. One of the injured students was a disabled kid in a wheelchair. Bad enough to be a random target; imagine being a target with no means to escape the way an able-bodied student could.
I think office building should have the drills as well. Our building is in an unsavory part of town, with the possibility of attracting criminals. We have several attorneys and a pain clinic in here. Plus, we've had several bank robberies within a mile. Nothing to stop the robber from running here and hiding out. We also have a firm that employs a very angry young man who once got very drunk and smashed in an outside double plate glass door in an effort to get into his office - at 2 a.m. No telling what this butthead could do next (yes, he's still employed at the same firm; it's owned by a relative of his).
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Nov 21, 2014 13:41:13 GMT -5
I would have let the teachers know in advance, though. SOmething like "we're having a shooter drill sometime this week.' You never know when one of them might have a gun in the classroom for just this situation.
Um... you don't? That's news to me. You never know if you've got some self rightous teacher who WOULD bring a gun to class - for protection. Odds are good no one would know they brought it.... unless there are metal detectors at the doors AND there's no way for teachers to bypass them on their way into the school - like say after hours...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 13:42:14 GMT -5
I think another reason people were so upset is because this caused panic among the parents. Imagine getting a text from your child saying "there is a shooter in school". Parents were rushing to the school.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 21, 2014 13:43:30 GMT -5
We did a few drills in high school that involved the police, firemen and EMTs. It was practice for them just like it was for us. Some of the drama kids volunteered to be victims scattered in various locations with different levels of severity so they could practice finding/moving/treating victims.
Then there was a volunteer who was supposed to be the shooter running around loose.
The people I knew who volunteered said it was pretty cool.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 21, 2014 13:44:50 GMT -5
My parents had to hide under their desk during air raid drills. What good is hiding under your desk going to do if Russia drops the bomb? Duck and cover!
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Nov 21, 2014 13:45:27 GMT -5
The school my kids go to has these in addition to fire and tornado drills. I think it's a good idea. You can never be too safe IMO.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Nov 21, 2014 13:47:16 GMT -5
I suppose it depends on whether the goal is preparedness or appearance...
I think those in charge need to know that a drill is on the table. But telling them "we're doing a drill this Wed. at 11:45" will just motivate people to pre-prepare for it by exiting early or whatever. A long time ago, when our building's evacuation time was sub-par, word of fire drills was spread on the down low. Its easy to evacuate when half the building is already gone.
What kind of training are the teachers given? Its ludicrous to expect them to lead in a situation where they've been given no training or policy or procedures. They might end up like George Costanza, "risking their lives to make sure the exit is clear".
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 21, 2014 13:47:41 GMT -5
We did a few drills in high school that involved the police, firemen and EMTs. It was practice for them just like it was for us. Some of the drama kids volunteered to be victims scattered in various locations with different levels of severity so they could practice finding/moving/treating victims. Then there was a volunteer who was supposed to be the shooter running around loose. The people I knew who volunteered said it was pretty cool. My kid brother used to do contract work for the Corrections House, after he got trapped in a drill he made damn sure he knew when the next one was so he could go around. He said he was prime bait - the IT tech with the pass to go anywhere on the grounds.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Nov 21, 2014 13:51:21 GMT -5
My kids school has gone into lock down before due to reports of some shady characters seen in the area. I have no problem with it. I have only seen one instance on the news, and it was a guy running from the police. No one was hurt and the guy was caught.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 14:40:22 GMT -5
I'm not opposed to a drill, but the parents and students should have been told about it before hand. You get notice to plan when real shooter comes to the school? These are same parents to sue when school is disorganized and their kid gets killed. Noone every happy no matter what is done. This is world we live in. Crazy people every time you turn around. You care then get rid of guns from population like Canada.
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Nov 21, 2014 14:48:45 GMT -5
If the drill is like a fire or earthquake drill and just involves getting the kids to safety, fine. But if my 12 year old is going to come face to face with the barrel of a gun, I think I have a right to know. That's a bit much for that age.
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