Unemployment problem

[katedenorm]

Hey all, long time, no post.
I've run into a little problem and am unsure as to what to do about it.
For 8 months, I worked on a Stimulus funded job that was sent through a temp service. When it ended, I filed for unemployment until a job came through.
From October until January, I was put onto the Federal Extension because although the job paid very well, I was just short of what was needed to collect the benefits that I worked for.
In February, I received a notice that my benefits were being denied because I "quit" my position. When I spoke to unemployment about the situation, they told me that I failed to maintain contact with the temp service. The manager at the temp service said that the back of the application states that they request weekly contact. Papers from the UE determination say that my W4 clearly states a monthly contact must be made. The temp service handbook states I must let them know within 48 hours of my job ending.
When the job ended, I called the HR at the company I worked for and the temp service to see what needed to be done. Both places told me nothing. No exit interview, no paperwork. That Monday I mailed several resumes including one to the temp service reminding them that the position had ended and would appreciate them keeping me aware of any jobs out there.
Now that I have filed an appeal with the UE office, the temp service that put a deny on my claim because I "quit", is calling me with job offers. Two in the last two weeks after five months of them not even acknowledging my resume.
Are they trying to cover their tracks on something? I have never worked anywhere that I received a copy of the application or W4 that was completed for the employer.
Yes - I am still mailing resumes and applying for work in the meantime, I'm not stupid and really don't want to be on unemployment. There are three possible jobs being put together that I am in line for, but as of now - there is NO income.
Until a hearing is set for the appeal, the UE office told me to just keep track of any further information that may help my case.
Any suggestions?

[michelyn8]

I'm sorry this is happening to you but essentially, the temp agency is correct that you quit. When you sign up with a temp agency, its up to you to make sure they know you're available and if you don't, they assume you don't want them to send you on anymore assignments. The reason you're receiving assignments now is because you have been "reactivated" as available in their very large pool of temps.

When the job ended, I called the HR at the company I worked for and the temp service to see what needed to be done. Both places told me nothing. No exit interview, no paperwork. That Monday I mailed several resumes including one to the temp service reminding them that the position had ended and would appreciate them keeping me aware of any jobs out there.


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Of course there wouldn't have been an exit interview. You were an employee of the temp agency not the company they sent you to. And once the assignment ended, you were still employed by the agency. You let them know you were available the first week, but your mistake was in not checking as required to see if they had anything for you. If you didn't read the application and make sure you understood the terms of your employment with the agency, that isn't the agency's fault. (I know I'll get blasted for that statement from someone but one of biggest pet peeves are people who complain about something in an agreement when they didn't fully read it and ask questions before they signed it - which is usually 9 times out of 10.)

[resolution]

Hopefully you will get a new temp assignment now that you have started getting calls from them again. Even if you do get a new assignment and don't need the unemployment, make sure that you respond and provide any information that Unemployment requests from you. If they determine that it really was a quit, they may look at the benefits that were paid to you after the quit and determine if you have to repay them. You don't want to be in the situation that you skipped responding since you got an assignment and then have them determine it was a quit because you missed an interview or didn't fill out a form.

[hoops902]

You had a job with the temp agency, you didn't comply with the terms of that job and you stopped "showing up to work" by contacting them regularly advising you were still looking for work. See it from their POV, they can't go chasing down anyone who's ever given them a resume when a job comes up simply because no one wants to notify them when they no longer want a temp position. It's up to you to stay "active" on their lists.

They're sending you stuff now because you're telling them you still want work. It's proof that had you not "quit" your position, they would have had work for you to perform. I don't think they're trying to cover their tracks, they are showing proof that they have work for you and that by refusing to do work for them, you have actually quit your job with them.

Letting them know within 48 hours of your job ending is a separate issue from maintaining contact with them.

I think the suggestion is: You were wrong. I don't think there was anything malicious on either side, and I can see how each side would think they were right. They put the contact frequency in for a reason, they need a current list of who's still wanting a position. Giving them your resume once then disappearing for 5 months from contact probably really is you quitting in their eyes.

"When the job ended, I called the HR at the company I worked for and the temp service to see what needed to be done. Both places told me nothing. "

You didn't need to do anything due to the job ending. You just needed to continue contacting the temp agency per your employment agreement with them.

It's not much different than if you worked construction pouring concrete. On Monday it's raining and muddy, the supervisor tells you there's no work for you this week, check back in next week and they'll see if it's dry enough to pour. You never call or do anything for the next 5 months while the concrete crew is working away with plenty of jobs to give you if you hadn't disappeared. Similar situation here, you quit.

[katedenorm]

Thanks for the responses.
The application and W4 being brought up after 8 months of employment on a long term assignment is what gets me confused. They gave me a handbook that says one thing and then state that policy is to contact them first on a weekly basis as is on the back of the application. Then the determination paperwork states that the W4 clearly states I must keep monthly contact. (Keeping in mind I know that policy handbooks are apt to change at any given time.)
Which is it and how would I be able to remember this with no reference in front of me? If either of these items contained pertinent policy information, shouldn't I have been given copies of them? I even kept copies of every single time card that I sent into them.
In all honesty, I did not realize that I remained an employee of the temp service as the position was a funded one. I thought the company that I worked for sent me through the service because of that and that it was a one-time deal.
I also applied for the position by first faxing my application directly to the company offering the job - copy of that is on my desk.
My unemployment benefits have been put on hold and I have had to file a waiver of overpayment. Emergency funds were eaten up while on the Fed. Extension and in the last few weeks trying to get by with no income.
I see what posters here are saying, but am still confused as to why they would first deny me unemployment benefits because I quit and then call me with jobs. Wouldn't that mean that they still consider me an employee and if so, wouldn't those benefits still be applicable?
I actually spoke to a woman at the temp service when this all began and she knew that I was appealing their decision. Once the appeal has been filed, the UE office told me to keep any new info until my hearing. Should I even have contact with the temp service during this time?
It's all just really confusing. I'm not trying to be a whiner...just want to understand completely how and why.

[Firebird]

I've worked many, many temporary jobs in my time. Best policy is to figure out which agency is doing the best job for you (getting you out the most) and check in with them daily. Check in with every other agency weekly.

It's also totally okay to ask your agent how often they like to be contacted. Some of the agents I got on with the best were the ones who didn't even try for people who didn't bother calling them every day.

[michelyn8]

In all honesty, I did not realize that I remained an employee of the temp service as the position was a funded one. I thought the company that I worked for sent me through the service because of that and that it was a one-time deal.
I also applied for the position by first faxing my application directly to the company offering the job - copy of that is on my desk.


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This is a common tactic. By having the employee paid through a temp agency, the company is saving $$ on benefits and UE. Since they knew your position had an end date due to its funding, it made sense for them to use a temp agency as an intermediary instead of going through the expense of putting you on their payroll, having to pay benefits if you were there longer than their waiting period and then having their UE taxes go up when they had to let you go after the funding expired.

For future reference, the name on your paycheck is the one you're employed by.

[katedenorm]

Should I contact the UE office to see if there should be any contact between the temp service and myself while the appeal is pending?
This is what's so confusing to me. Whatever the final determination turns out to be will be okay with me. Win or loose, I certainly have learned a few things. But during the appeal process?

[hoops902]

Mar 3, 2011 14:57:48 GMT -5 @katedenorm said:

Should I contact the UE office to see if there should be any contact between the temp service and myself while the appeal is pending?

That's certainly what I would do.

[workpublic]

you'll get the benefits. reason "lack of work".

the only jobs i've been able to get in the last ten years were "contract" jobs. when the job is done. it's done. you're only an "employee"(if you were W2) of the contracting company as long as you are working on the contract. did the temp agency send you a paycheck or ask for your hours(zero) the week after the job went away?

i've never heard of having to "check in" with a contracting agency after a job was done in order to get credit for UE bennies for work already done. i think the only "full time" employees at agencies are the people who actually work at this agency's office. not their "temporary" "workers". even if it's in the "contract"

[katedenorm]

Just spoke to the UE office. Their response was to see what the temp agency has to offer. They would be maintaining contact with me - after I "quit" and it would not be in line with them denying me benefits.

Workpublic - they actually sent me an extra paycheck the week after the position ended and I had to call them to let them know and have it taken out of my checking account. No timecards or hours were asked for.

[Clever Username]

I appealed and won with UI before.
Keep your perspective. This is a large, uncaring behemouth. Patients and care.
Carefully pick which buttons to push and buzzwords to use.
They really don't care, some other buzzword landed you there. They're just turning the crank.

[workpublic]

"contracting" may be different from "temping"

but I've had 2 day contracts that were W2(as opposed to 1099) and 3 year "contracts"(really was just a lowered paid, unbenefitted employee) that were W2. essentially I was an employee of the contracting company. They handled the payroll, they handled the benefits(if any were offered, and if they were I paid 100%)

imho corporate America has been sold a bill of goods regarding "temps/contractors" and the ROI of using them.

it's like a pimp, prostitute, john relationship.

I'm in IT.

Here's an example.

Royal Bank of Scotland(john) goes to IBM(pimp) and says "we need Executive Desktop Support"
IBM(pimp) says "You came to best. That's what we do" "We'll put one of our techs in your office for $60 an hour and we'll handle the "headaches(basically payroll and any benefits)" of adding an "employee" to your ranks.
RBS(john) thinks "Hmm IBM support for $60 an hour. We'll take it"
IBM then sub contracts the job out to a contracting agency(sub pimp)(usually a couple of ex IBM employees) for $30 an hour. now IBM is out of the "headaches" and it falls to the sub contractor.
the sub contractor now goes out on the street and finds the person willing to work for the lowest amount(prostitute/me) from a pool of workers with the same skill set required. In this case $15 an hour.


meanwhile RBS is under the impression that highly trained/skilled IBM employee is doing the work. But in reality it's a low paid, desperate or bottom of the barrel skill wise "contractor" off the street who is wearing an IBM Badge with the only difference being a yellow stripe across the top.

they stress not discussing your working deal when at the client(RBS). if asked you work for IBM(when you don't) you work for ex ibm employee contracting company LLC. and that's who has to pay your unemployment benefits. when RBS kicks IBM out. your job is done.

you didn't "quit" the job ended and they had nothing for you(lack of work)

what are they saying you have to do? call the company periodically to see if they have any new jobs?
as far as I know you only work for the company when you are on an assignment and you should get UE credit for that time. I'm in NY. it probably varies from state to state.

good luck, I'm hoping you get your benefits.


I wish RBS would just hire an employee for $25 an hour, instead of paying $60 for a contractor. it can't cost the difference an hour for payroll, benefits, liability, etc.

[katedenorm]

Don't get me wrong - I don't want something that I'm not entitled too. (Yes - the "e" word)
I took the 8 month job to get off of UE after 9 months of looking - at least 2 resumes or applications each week for 9 months - sometimes even re-sending to jobs that showed back up in the paper. While employed, I tried to pad my EFs as much as possible after catching up on everything that had been out of whack. UE certainly is not the income that anyone should try to exist on, but when it's that or nothing.... Needless to say, it wasn't enough. The position paid very well, temp wages or not, but the three months on the Fed Ext was the original amount of UE that I collected from being laid off from a $10 an hour job. Note: took a paycut then to go back to work after being laid off. UE from the 8 month position is twice that. When it kicked in in January, I was happy to be able to get back on track and start padding accounts again until employed.
I dont' want to work for a temp service, but aparently it looks like they are once again considering me an employee and it's in my best interest to consider their offers.
PA has a very confusing UE handbook and website, but when you get through on the phone to a human being, they are very helpful and polite.
Meanwhile, I am "pimping" myself to anyone that has positions that I may qualify for until an appeal hearing is set. Until then - UGHHHHHH.

[bean29]

Katedenorm:

I don't agree with some of the other posters. To collect unemployment in my state you need to send out 3 applications a week. Assumably you are applying with companies that have work available. After you contacted the temp agency let them know your assignment ended and were available for work, I think your responsibility to them ended. Seems to me this is just a back door way of getting out of responsibility for UE. Hopefully your state will not let them get away with it.

If they had work available and you were in their database I would think you would have heard from them.

I would think you have a good chance of winning an appeal.

[katedenorm]

Hopeful that it works out for the best.
Jobs in this area are very scarce and low paying - but I'm definately still looking. Have even gotten to the point of offering my resumes to companies that MAY want me. If not for the BF, I'd be willing to move out of state.
It all rests on the appeal hearing and the date for that hasn't even be set yet. No money and it's really scarey. BF is willing to help with money, but geez, that's a new issue alltogether.
The fact that so many others are on UE makes me nervous. It would benefit the UE to deny my claim and I'm sure that the temp service has been in this situation before and knows how to handle it.
The stress is killing me though. If I could use that to pay the bills - woohoo.

[katedenorm]

Just a funny FYI - last week there was a job open at the adult bookstore for a salesperson/closer and one for an "adult" phone operator. The later will train. LMAO...should have applied for those. Maybe I could have learned something fun.

[hoops902]

"After you contacted the temp agency let them know your assignment ended and were available for work, I think your responsibility to them ended"

"If they had work available and you were in their database I would think you would have heard from them."


I might agree if they didn't have a specific agreement with their employees indicating that it was the employees obligation to check in with them every X days/weeks/months, not the other way round.

"you'll get the benefits. reason "lack of work"."

From their perspective I'm sure it's going to be "we had work, she abandoned her job by not following the terms of her employment and contacting us at the specified intervals. As proof, look at all these new jobs we have now offered her once we heard she was looking...and she hasn't accepted any of them. There's work, she's just refusing to do it".

"To collect unemployment in my state you need to send out 3 applications a week. "

Without knowing what state you live in, I would guess a requirement is also that you did not simply walk off your last job and quit. That's the bone of contention here. Whether she is meeting the other obligations like applying to jobs doesn't seem to be in question from her posts. The question seems to be whether she quit her job with the temp agency by not following the presumed terms of the employment contract which call for her to check in at specified intervals for work.

"I dont' want to work for a temp service, but aparently it looks like they are once again considering me an employee and it's in my best interest to consider their offers."

I think you're in a difficult spot, do you go work a temp job you might not want for a company that's trying to cut your UE? Or do you "stand your ground" so to speak and risk that you'll end up without the temp job or UE both? If it were me, I'd err on the side of having employment, since that's the end goal of being on UE anyways.

It sounds like they're trying to make the point moot anyways. They say "she quit". You say "I didn't quit, there was no work". They say "ok if you didn't quit, then here's some work for you". I'm not sure saying "nope, i dont' want that work" helps your case. Though I do think saying "ok, thanks for the job" might help your cause of being able to claim you were ready and willing to work but didn't have any offers to do so as far as not having to pay back funds already received. It would seem a logical step toward showing you were always willing to work.


"Just spoke to the UE office. Their response was to see what the temp agency has to offer. They would be maintaining contact with me - after I "quit" and it would not be in line with them denying me benefits."

This sounds like good news toward not paying back benefits already received. Seems like it would be bad news toward the future if you choose not to take a temp assignment from them though. If the UE is saying they shouldn't deny benefits because you were laid off due to lack of work, i would think refusing to accept the work once contacted again could be construed as quitting now even if they don't consider the original end of your temp position to be quitting.

Good luck, all sounds very annoying and complicated.

[workpublic]

I think your responsibility to them ended. Seems to me this is just a back door way of getting out of responsibility for UE. Hopefully your state will not let them get away with it.

agree

[bean29]

When her job ended she let the temp agency know she was now unemployed. They did not give her a new assignment. How is this different than working for anyother employer. If you can get away with this then all employers will start telling you to check back with them everyweek even when they have no work available.

TG for honest employers. My employer tries to make sure former employees don't get cut off of UE unjustly. Of course our former employees that are collecting UE work for a divisions that has seasonal slowdowns. They are semi-retired and don't mind not working for part of the year, or they left voluntarily on good terms and maintain a good relationship with management.

I really don't agree that the temp agency can claim we had work see here are the work orders-unless- the work order went unfilled and Kate would have been a good fit. Becasue if they had an unfilled workorder and they did not give Kate a jingle someone failed to do their job.

[hoops902]

"Becasue if they had an unfilled workorder and they did not give Kate a jingle someone failed to do their job. "

They're not supposed to give her a call, they have a contract with her that she will give THEM a call.

"If you can get away with this then all employers will start telling you to check back with them everyweek even when they have no work available."

All employers don't tell you that the work you have is "essentially" seasonal. I use seasonal loosely since I would place this in the same category as I'd place some seasonal construction, etc. All employers don't tell you that once your work ends, which it is expected to at some point, that your employment agreement indicates that you are the one to contact them on at specified intervals.

By this logic if I work construction and my boss says "no work today, too wet out, call me Monday to see if we're working" then I should just be able to collect unemployment from now until Unemployment stops because I chose not to call back upon instruction from my boss. It's not my boss's job to hunt me down, my boss gave me instructions and I chose to ignore those instructions and not continue working there.

"If you can get away with this then all employers will start telling you to check back with them everyweek even when they have no work available."

So? Even if this happened, what's the harm? No one is suggesting the temp agency shouldn't pay her UE when they didn' thave work for her. This is exactly what the term "laid off" was for. It was for temporary shut-downs where employees would be rehired. It's not the company's job to track you back down if you agreed to an employment contract wherein you've agreed to be the one responsible for checking in periodically. If you dont' want to be held to that agreement, then don't make it.

[hoops902]

Simply put, if you and I make an agreement that says "If you want my television, come pick it up on Saturday at 7pm". If you haven't picked it up by Saturday at 8pm, I shouldn't need to call you and say "Hey, do you want my television? You didn't pick it up". The agreement was if you wanted x, you'd do y. No need for me to inconvenience myself double or triple checking in with you after you dont' do y. not doing y is all the indication I need per our agreement.

[katedenorm]

I understand having an agreement, but honestly who on this board would remember the back of something they signed after 8 months? And since I called and asked specifically if I had to do anything else and was told no, shouldn't they have said don't forget to check in with us in case we have work available? It was an 8 month period of time.
Again - they are telling me that paperwork I filled out last January states in two different places, two different pieces of information that were pretty pertinent to my continued employment with the temp service. Shouldn't I have been given copies of both for my records?
If weekly or monthly contact is expected how am I to know if you have not given me that information?
I am not disputing that one or the other is not their policy - my question is how would I have known?
I will be answering calls from the temp service and if they can come up with employment for me I will take it and muddle through until I can find my own, full-time, permanent job.
It seems a little shady to use information that I only had access to once as a basis for my "quitting." As per the original posting, I was under the impression that the temp service was being used for a one-time thing. I filled out a lot of papers for both companies. Ones that I do not have copies for, I couldn't tell you what they said. They applied to that job and it was over in September. It was funded and for a set period of time.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

Wasn't the job through the temp agency? If it was, they should know when the job is ending and that you would be available for another job. I compare it to the prostitution example above. If I'm the pimp, isn't it my job to know where my ladies are and when the john's time is up? I wouldn't be waiting around for the ladies to call me. It is m job to follow up with them and make sure my talent is in tip top shape. Isn't that what the employer who is contracting out is paying for (not just to reduce benefits and payroll hassle but also to reduce HR burden for finding Kate, the perfect employee)?

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

Ahh... it makes more sense now. Thanks for the clarification, Tough. For some reason I thought that temp agencies wouldn't have to pay UE as they serve more as a broker of people. I wasn't thinking of one as an "employer" in the traditional sense because the whole point of the temp agency is for people to be employed when a company needs them and easily cut loose when they don't....