MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Nov 24, 2014 0:24:53 GMT -5
I had a real hard time when the Sandy Hook shooting took place, I cried and debated for over a year whether I would send DS to kindergarten or home school. I couldn't imagine having something so horrible happen to him. It took a long time to come to my senses but he is a happy kindergartener this year. I have a really hard time with violence and the news gets me down as well as the torture porn type movies (Saw, Hostle and the such) I just can't see that type of stuff anymore. I actually have developed phobias because of this crap. I used to be awesome with powertools and loved shop class (only girl to get a A in my class) but now I am terrified of power type saws because of certain movies, also love to cook but have to use a bread knife or a steak knife at the sharpest because I am so scared I will slice myself really bad like in the movies There's more stuff I am now freaked about now as well and I refuse to go to a movie theater anymore and haven't been to a mall in ages. No I am not totally home bound, but I do stay more in my comfort zone anymore because weird shit happens. Every time there is a school shooting, I react, in part, by memorizing my kids' outfits as they leave for school for days afterward. I want to be able to give a clear description if it ever becomes necessary. I'm kind of pathetic, over-protective, and creepy all at once, aren't I? Not at all! I do the same. It's a scary world we live in now and it can suck
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Nov 24, 2014 0:26:28 GMT -5
Thank you Sugi Big huge hug for you too!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 0:31:35 GMT -5
Not the type I was thinking of, but I would disagree to an extent anyway. The suffering already exists in your examples. One can perhaps ameliorate it temporarily, but that is a much lower standard. If you can not end all you better not end some? I do not agree with it.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Nov 24, 2014 1:34:25 GMT -5
I said you cannot prevent it. If you think otherwise, knock yourself out. Be prepared for an awful lot of failure though. You will certainly find it. Or it will find you.
Again, you may be able to ease it temporarily, but that is a much lower standard.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 7:33:37 GMT -5
If you fed somebody you prevent them to suffer a few hours.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Nov 24, 2014 10:34:33 GMT -5
Which is pretty much the definition of, "you may be able to ease it temporarily," is it not?
I'm done with this. It's a silly discussion in the first place, and again not what the original comment referred to.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Nov 24, 2014 10:54:39 GMT -5
To eat back to the OP: How, and to what extent does violence and suffering affect you on an emotional and/or physical level?
I'm asking both in the context of media, and in real life.
Media: Does violence or suffering in media fiction (books, movies, TV shows) have a strong emotional affect on you? As an example, would a work of fiction that covers subjects such child rape, incest, dog fighting, war ect. upset you.
Real Life: This covers both witnessed in person and on the news. Does news of things like the Katrina hurricane incidents, the shooting in Newtown, the Tsunami in 2004, and Haiti earthquakes affect you on an emotional level? What about any pain and suffering witnessed in real life? My view (& that of other surviving parents) is skewed. REAL LIFE: A lot if it happens to me or a family member MEDIA: Not so much. I think the constant barrage of violence in movies, video games, online, & news stories desensitized us to a certain point. Not that I wouldn't want to ameliorate it but it doesn't have the same effect that it would have decades ago
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 11:08:12 GMT -5
Which is pretty much the definition of, "you may be able to ease it temporarily," is it not?
I'm done with this. It's a silly discussion in the first place, and again not what the original comment referred to.
OK. Sorry you didn't get my point.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Nov 24, 2014 11:13:46 GMT -5
I think about this sometimes:
One of DD's daycare teachers lost her 18yo daughter in a tragic accident a few months ago. I feel so terrible for her -- her pain is palpable (even though she tries to put on a smile for the babies), and her FB posts cry out for help in learning to live without her daughter. Especially now that I have a child, that type of pain is unimaginable.
But meanwhile, in other high-conflict countries, there are people who have lost their entire families, including multiple children, and their homes as their city is reduced to rubble. How can you ever begin to recover from that? Is there a maximum threshold for this type of pain? Once you've lost three or four kids, do you just become numb to it? If not -- how do you even continue breathing?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 11:22:32 GMT -5
I think about this sometimes: One of DD's daycare teachers lost her 18yo daughter in a tragic accident a few months ago. I feel so terrible for her -- her pain is palpable (even though she tries to put on a smile for the babies), and her FB posts cry out for help in learning to live without her daughter. Especially now that I have a child, that type of pain is unimaginable. But meanwhile, in other high-conflict countries, there are people who have lost their entire families, including multiple children, and their homes as their city is reduced to rubble. How can you ever begin to recover from that? Is there a maximum threshold for this type of pain? Once you've lost three or four kids, do you just become numb to it? If not -- how do you even continue breathing?My Grandmother was one of 13 kids and only 8 of them made it to adulthood. Just childhood diseases (TB mostly) and a farm accident in the late 1800's. I never really talked to my Great Grandmother about it, but she always seemed pretty together and didn't bring it up. Lived on her own with her mind sharp as a tack until just a few months shy of her 101st birthday.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 25, 2014 7:32:47 GMT -5
I think about this sometimes: One of DD's daycare teachers lost her 18yo daughter in a tragic accident a few months ago. I feel so terrible for her -- her pain is palpable (even though she tries to put on a smile for the babies), and her FB posts cry out for help in learning to live without her daughter. Especially now that I have a child, that type of pain is unimaginable. But meanwhile, in other high-conflict countries, there are people who have lost their entire families, including multiple children, and their homes as their city is reduced to rubble. How can you ever begin to recover from that? Is there a maximum threshold for this type of pain? Once you've lost three or four kids, do you just become numb to it? If not -- how do you even continue breathing?Well, I think you just do. I think the pain of moving forward, eventually, in the long run is less than the pain from dwelling in the past, and staying in the past.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 25, 2014 10:40:54 GMT -5
I think the pain of moving forward, eventually, in the long run is less than the pain from dwelling in the past, and staying in the past.
I would agree but I think there's a lot of fear involved in the process of moving forward. Because you're in so much pain from what happened and you just can't stand the thought of any more pain. Moving forward is scary, plus it might not work, plus there might be more pain in the future - and no matter what, you've still got to deal with the pain of whatever already happened.
Also, some people are better at moving on than others. After DH's mom died, he took a time out from everything for about 4-6 weeks. Then he jumped right back into things. Came home with me, went back to work, and resumed his normal life. He hardly even talked about her anymore.
I can pretty much guarantee you that if it had been my mom who died that way, I would have been a much bigger mess for much longer. Some people are able to get to the point of "I can't do anything about this and I can't fix it so I might as well go on living my life" right away. Others just take longer. I think I'm one of those people. (I'm not 100% sure because I've never lost anyone that close to me. Not looking forward to finding out for sure.)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 10:55:15 GMT -5
I've found I can move on pretty quickly following the death of a loved one, but occasionally, seemingly out of nowhere, it hits me like a ton of bricks. I'll cry, I'll break things, I'll curse whatever forces in the universe I can think of, then the next day I'm ok again. I'm not sure if this is healthy or not. I also think the death of a child would be a whole nother' level of grief. One I hope to never experience.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 25, 2014 10:56:03 GMT -5
I also think the death of a child would be a whole nother' level of grief. One I hope to never experience.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 25, 2014 11:31:41 GMT -5
I think the pain of moving forward, eventually, in the long run is less than the pain from dwelling in the past, and staying in the past.
I would agree but I think there's a lot of fear involved in the process of moving forward. Because you're in so much pain from what happened and you just can't stand the thought of any more pain. Moving forward is scary, plus it might not work, plus there might be more pain in the future - and no matter what, you've still got to deal with the pain of whatever already happened. Also, some people are better at moving on than others. After DH's mom died, he took a time out from everything for about 4-6 weeks. Then he jumped right back into things. Came home with me, went back to work, and resumed his normal life. He hardly even talked about her anymore. I can pretty much guarantee you that if it had been my mom who died that way, I would have been a much bigger mess for much longer. Some people are able to get to the point of "I can't do anything about this and I can't fix it so I might as well go on living my life" right away. Others just take longer. I think I'm one of those people. (I'm not 100% sure because I've never lost anyone that close to me. Not looking forward to finding out for sure.) Well, I guess I was thinking long term (years) , not short term (under a year) . I've seen people that move on, as they are ready. One of my clients lost her only bio child when he was 18, about a month or so before he graduated HS. She's gone on to work, retire, start a new career, and adopted a special needs kid. There are two ex husbands that I know of, both I believe have passed away. I've also seen people chose to never work through the pain, even after 20 years. Two different people handling paid two different ways, basically over the same length of time. Long term, if I have a choice between moving forward and holding on to pain, I'm going to move forward. Maybe not immediately, but eventually. I also think choosing to never work through the pain is pretty selfish, because it negatively affects those loved ones around you that are still living.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 25, 2014 11:45:06 GMT -5
Long term, if I have a choice between moving forward and holding on to pain, I'm going to move forward. Maybe not immediately, but eventually.
Me too. I agree that it's selfish not to move on, and definitely not what the person you're grieving would have wanted for you. But deciding "the appropriate time" is tricky. Yes, twenty years is excessive. But what about five? Three? Some people think one year is excessive.
Loss is a really tough thing, no two ways about it.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Nov 25, 2014 11:53:00 GMT -5
At the risk of hijacking the discussion or causing it to be moved, I think that religious faith plays a large role in addressing grief.
My aunt lost her son (and my cousin her brother) 10 years ago. They both firmly believe that because he was baptized as an early teen, he is waiting for them in Heaven. I do not subscribe to that belief, and I had a much harder time dealing with his death than they have.
My aunt is open that she still struggles with it -- but overall, I think she is handling things admirably, especially since her one living child is across the country and she only gets to see her a handful of times each year. If I were in the same situation, I don't think I would deal with it as well at all.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 25, 2014 12:08:52 GMT -5
At the risk of hijacking the discussion or causing it to be moved, I think that religious faith plays a large role in addressing grief.
Agreed. I've seen it cut both ways. For the most part it seems to be comforting for people to imagine their loved ones in heaven but I've seen deeply devout friends struggle terribly with their grief because they felt they "shouldn't" be sad that their loved one was gone because s/he was in a better place now. Even if you believe that, you should still feel free to grieve.
Honestly, this is one of the things I've struggled with the most since becoming agnostic. I don't have any idea what happens after death, don't pretend to, and don't feel particularly comforted by any of the possibilities out there. I really have no reason to believe I'll ever see my loved ones again after they/I die and that's pretty depressing. On the other hand, it encourages me to make the most of the time we do have.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Nov 25, 2014 13:45:58 GMT -5
I think the media in the US shows a lot more graphic films and pictures than would be allowed over here in England
There were terrorist bombs going off all the time when I was growing up....but there were never any pictures of bodies.....only damaged buildings.
Autopsy pictures would never be released.
When Princess Diana died...some low-life scum took pictures which were all over the internet....but non of the news outlets would show them here.
It would have enraged public decency and been disrespectful to her family.
I'm always astonished at the pictures of the assassination of JFK.......All the creepos and gore gobblers.....deciding which piece of skull is missing. He was your President....He deserves better than that.
Got upset over the pictures of the Tsunami in Japan......There is only so much you can look at before you realise you are watching people die. ...and the Twin Towers, of course.....They had it on live feed....and it was devastating
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Nov 25, 2014 16:33:35 GMT -5
I've come to the conclusion that I'm pretty jaded when it comes to reporting of natural disasters. Mostly because the press always seems to make mountains out of molehills. Take the recent snowstorms in the Buffalo area as an example. Reports of six and eight feet of snow. But, I look at pictures of the hardest hit areas of town (lake effect snow can be very, very spotty) and I see that the snow is still a foot below the mailboxes along the street. If the mailbox is installed to USPS requirements(3 1/2 - 4 feet above the road), that would make the snow depth no more than 3 feet deep. Let's face it, three feet is a long, long way from six feet; or eight feet. Three feet of snow is not a lot of snow in Buffalo. It's kind of heavy for this early in the year, yes. But waist deep accumulations of snow were not unusual when I lived in the Buffalo area. Then there was the picture of the snowmobile turning around in the middle of a plowed street. The caption implied that the operator was turning around because there was too much snow in his path. Pure BS. I was operating snowmobiles well before I had a driver's license. I know from personal experience that the depth of the snow under the track is not an obstacle. Deep snow, not plowed streets, is what snowmobiles were designed for.
Why does the media insist on trying to blow so much of their reporting completely out of proportion? Do they really think the public is so ill informed and stupid that we actually believe the reports they are publishing? You'd think that reporters would be smarter than writing reports that make them look like the north end of a southbound horse time after time.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 25, 2014 16:44:00 GMT -5
I think the media in the US shows a lot more graphic films and pictures than would be allowed over here in England
There were terrorist bombs going off all the time when I was growing up....but there were never any pictures of bodies.....only damaged buildings.
Autopsy pictures would never be released.
When Princess Diana died...some low-life scum took pictures which were all over the internet....but non of the news outlets would show them here.
It would have enraged public decency and been disrespectful to her family.
I'm always astonished at the pictures of the assassination of JFK.......All the creepos and gore gobblers.....deciding which piece of skull is missing. He was your President....He deserves better than that.
Got upset over the pictures of the Tsunami in Japan......There is only so much you can look at before you realise you are watching people die. ...and the Twin Towers, of course.....They had it on live feed....and it was devastating I think Canada shows more graphic images than the US, whether it's sexual or pictures of violence and dead bodies.
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truthbound
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Post by truthbound on Nov 26, 2014 5:26:12 GMT -5
How, and to what extent does violence and suffering affect you on an emotional and/or physical level?
I'm asking both in the context of media, and in real life.
Media: Does violence or suffering in media fiction (books, movies, TV shows) have a strong emotional affect on you? As an example, would a work of fiction that covers subjects such child rape, incest, dog fighting, war ect. upset you.
Real Life: This covers both witnessed in person and on the news. Does news of things like the Katrina hurricane incidents, the shooting in Newtown, the Tsunami in 2004, and Haiti earthquakes affect you on an emotional level? What about any pain and suffering witnessed in real life? Fiction is fiction. It didn't actually happen so there is no reason it would bother me. Real life violence? I have seen my share of that and anticipate I will see more. It never has bothered me either.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Nov 26, 2014 18:10:15 GMT -5
I've also seen people chose to never work through the pain, even after 20 years. .... I also think choosing to never work through the pain is pretty selfish, because it negatively affects those loved ones around you that are still living. I think no one chooses to get stuck but what happens if the parent succumbs to PTSD? We want to get on with it ... we're tired of hearing it's time ... cocooning on 'that day' but it isn't as easy as it sounds. My heartfelt wish is that you never understand
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 26, 2014 19:07:31 GMT -5
I've also seen people chose to never work through the pain, even after 20 years. .... I also think choosing to never work through the pain is pretty selfish, because it negatively affects those loved ones around you that are still living. I think no one chooses to get stuck but what happens if the parent succumbs to PTSD? Actually, I don't agree with that. Even if the parent succumbs to PSTD, it's a choice to get it treated or not. A quick google search shows that PTSD is treatable. It's a choice to make yourself mentally/emotionally healthy. Or not. I had the choice. My parents had the choice. My husband had the choice. My husband and I made the choices to get mentally/emotionally healthy. My parents did not. I don't understand wanting to live with untreated mental illnesses and doing nothing to treat said mental illness(es). I mean I do at an academic level. Fear of the unknown, fear of change, fear of anything and everything you can think of. If as an adult, you choose to remain mentally/emotionally ill, and it only affects you, I don't see what the big deal is. I can shrug my shoulders and move on. I think it's a bigger deal when your mental/emotional issues negatively affect your spouse. Even bigger is when your issues also negatively affect your child. A spouse or adult partner can make choices to remedy the situation. A child cannot. When an adult expect a child to be responsible for the their (the adult's) mental/emotional health, yes, that's selfish. When a parent knows they are clinically depressed and refuses treatment, yes, that is selfish. When a parent has a breakdown infront of the child and then tells the child to clean up after them, yes, that is selfish. When a parent knows their child is self-harming but won't get the child treated because it might make the parent look bad, it's selfish. My parents had very legitimate reservations about me marrying my husband. But to explain those reservations to me would necessitate them admitting that their marriage was piss poor and unhealthy. So, rather than be truthful about their own marriage and share their (again, very legitimate) concerns, they just chose to treat my DH like shit. I'd say, this was pretty selfish, too. My parents have been behaving this way for 40 years, give or take. They aren't changing now. My mother isn't going to wake up tomorrow and say "OMG! I need to get myself in therapy and on drugs." And the sad part is she is totally strong enough to deal with her depression and other issues. I've told her so.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 26, 2014 19:20:57 GMT -5
I think no one chooses to get stuck but what happens if the parent succumbs to PTSD? We want to get on with it ... we're tired of hearing it's time ... cocooning on 'that day' but it isn't as easy as it sounds. My heartfelt wish is that you never understand I'm not talking about moving on in a week, or a month, or even a year or 5. I still have panic attacks over my husband's behavior, and we're 7 years into his recovery now. Sometimes, my husband's behavior triggers me, and I freak out that he's going to haul off and smack the kids like I was smacked. Even though I have no reason to believe so. I get that triggers run deep, and they stay with you forever. I get that you never forget. That the wound is still there, even if you've healed, and will make its presence known. I'm talking about refusing to get emotionally healthy and that choice adversely affecting the mental health of your children. Personally, I would never tell my kids that my pain is infinitely more important than them. Or as long as I am in pain, their needs aren't important and don't matter. I would never tell my kids it was their job to make me pain free. I would not tell them that their lives revolve around my pain.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Nov 26, 2014 20:07:05 GMT -5
My heartfelt wish is that you never understand the difference between burying a child, burying a parent, marital difficulties, and domestic violence. And I'm not minimizing the 2nd, 3rd, & 4th ones but IT IS DIFFERENT
And I have moved on except for that day
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 26, 2014 20:22:29 GMT -5
My heartfelt wish is that you never understand the difference between burying a child, burying a parent, marital difficulties, and domestic violence. And I'm not minimizing the 2nd, 3rd, & 4th ones but IT IS DIFFERENT And I have moved on except for that day It is natural to bury a parent but one should never experience burying their child. Many, many hugs to you
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 20:38:06 GMT -5
How, and to what extent does violence and suffering affect you on an emotional and/or physical level?
I'm asking both in the context of media, and in real life.
Media: Does violence or suffering in media fiction (books, movies, TV shows) have a strong emotional affect on you? As an example, would a work of fiction that covers subjects such child rape, incest, dog fighting, war ect. upset you.
Real Life: This covers both witnessed in person and on the news. Does news of things like the Katrina hurricane incidents, the shooting in Newtown, the Tsunami in 2004, and Haiti earthquakes affect you on an emotional level? What about any pain and suffering witnessed in real life? Well, Katrina affected me on an emotional level because I have an uncle who lives in New Orleans and was affected. He was safe and had evacuated with his church at some point so I am happy about that but all the same I was sad for the rest of New Orleans. Otherwise, sad to say, it doesn't usually register on my radar. Horrible, I know but unless it affects me personally, I just don't realize it. I do need to take into consideration that I work overnights now so am not really up-to-date on anything anymore.
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