Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Nov 12, 2014 15:49:33 GMT -5
My dad and most likely my brother. Dad does have "insurance" via Medicaid's poverty program. He gets about $1200/mo from SS. He took it early at I think age 60 (born in 1936) shortly after Mom and he filed BK. He was under employed from about age 40 when he and Mom decided not to relocate from San Diego to Woburn MA when the company he worked for lost the Navy contract that he staffed. While I understand why that would have been a hard decision to move back to MA my parents really under estimated the cyclical nature of real estate. They basically went broke in 1979 when interest rates zoomed from 12% to 17% in a matter of months and did file BK 15 years later in 1996 with the next cycle. Dad never really recovered from that. Mom died in 2008 with an upside down estate. My 52 year old brother seems to be following in their footsteps. Since he has trouble even paying the rent on time I seriously doubt that he has anything saved for an emergency much less for retirement. Last time I saw him he joked that his FICO was almost up to 500.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 12, 2014 15:49:50 GMT -5
... I know of a few who plan on working until they die ... My personal retirement calculations have me working for another six months after that.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 12, 2014 15:51:34 GMT -5
My DH is contract worker for our state gov't. His benefit is his paycheck and paying into the retirement system. (The state does not contribute to his retirement at all). He has no other benefits (no sick leave, no vacation, holiday pay, etc.)
He isn't coasting. My DH does real work.It just so happens that one large branch of our state gov't has a large percentage (I think it's at least 25%) that are contract workers. Then our gov't can say they are doing a good job of keeping costs low.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 15:53:01 GMT -5
As long as you stay healthy, there really is no reason people can't just plan to work until they die. Of course, if something happens and you're physically not able, you're screwed, but then I would think the government would kick in and take care of you. It's not what I want to do, but there are people that are perfectly cool with the idea of working forever.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Nov 12, 2014 16:06:54 GMT -5
As long as you stay healthy, there really is no reason people can't just plan to work until they die. Of course, if something happens and you're physically not able, you're screwed, but then I would think the government would kick in and take care of you. It's not what I want to do, but there are people that are perfectly cool with the idea of working forever. I think for many professions this is unrealistic. My Dad had a pretty physically demanding job. There is no way a guy in his 70's could do it. It would be really hard for someone in their 60's IMHO. I know several guys in the trades and they all plan on transitioning to general contractor by the time they're in their 50's/60's. Sorry, there are a lot more construction workers then general contractors so I think some of them will be out of luck. The desk jobs, yea that could be easier. But you have to keep up with advances and remain competitive and I know even in my late 40's I'm not picking up the new stuff as quickly as I did in my 20's. I don't know how quick I will be in my 60's .
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Nov 12, 2014 16:08:21 GMT -5
I used to know quite a few of them. Oh, who am I kidding? I was one of them. I didn't have health insurance until I turned 28 and I didn't save a dime for retirement until I was in my early 30s and the funding for said retirement came from my parents.
It worried me a lot.
I tackled health insurance first. The health insurance that I got at the age of 28 was interrupted, but when I became eligible for insurance again at the age of 31, I jumped at it. In retrospect, I may have jumped at it too soon. Signing up for employer-subsidized health insurance at the moment that I became eligible put a heck of a crimp in my finances but wasn't necessarily going to save me from financial meltdown if I developed any serious medical issue. In other words, the insurance would pay the persons who treated me, but it the copays (and lost work) would probably sink me.
I started saving for retirement when my parents redirected my grandmother's Medicare spend-down in my direction and I felt the need to do something permanent with it. I'd zotzed my debt by that time, so there wasn't any excuse for not socking the money away.
I'm not sure what happened to my similarly spendthrift friends. The odds are pretty good that most of them are insured by now, but I don't know about retirement savings. They probably didn't get the infusion of seed money and the kick in the pants that I got.
FWIW, it is extremely difficult for a person who has been living paycheck to paycheck for years to find the courage to set money aside for 30 years. Twelve percent annual returns aren't very exciting when they are weighed against the tremendous costs and indignities imposed on folks who have no savings and nothing to spare.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 16:09:28 GMT -5
I know one woman, who lives in a huge house, but is on state medical. She has 2 kids with her SO and they have been together for 20 years. Initially he wanted to get married but she refused. They had the kids and she stayed home with them. At some point she left him, abandoned the kids, and generally went off the rails. She developed an illness and they reconciled, but he will not marry her, even though she now wants too. He is really successful, but the way it is set up, she has nothing. She has no work history, no medical, retirement, or SS. If he leaves her, which I think is likely, she is completely destitute.
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 12, 2014 16:16:42 GMT -5
As long as you stay healthy, there really is no reason people can't just plan to work until they die. Of course, if something happens and you're physically not able, you're screwed, but then I would think the government would kick in and take care of you. It's not what I want to do, but there are people that are perfectly cool with the idea of working forever. That's a really big gamble, though. Using my 50 year old friend as an example... she's very young looking and vibrant acting. Heck, she even still gets carded at bars occasionally. She is doing odd, cash jobs like cleaning houses or driving people around, neither of which is particularly strenuous. But whenever she's sick (even a bad cold - because people don't want you hacking and sneezing on their "clean" house), she misses work. A few months ago, a piece of tile came off a shower she was wiping and cut her hand badly enough to need 5 stiches - again out of work for several weeks. And when you're living like she is, there's no cushion of savings to tide her over when she doesn't have that cash coming in. So even if you're generally physically able to work until you die, IMHO it's pretty risky to rely on working a job with no real savings.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 16:19:29 GMT -5
As long as you stay healthy, there really is no reason people can't just plan to work my ntil they die. Of course, if something happens and you're physically not able, you're screwed, but then I would think the government would kick in and take care of you. It's not what I want to do, but there are people that are perfectly cool with the idea of working forever. I think for many professions this is unrealistic. My Dad had a pretty physically demanding job. There is no way a guy in his 70's could do it. It would be really hard for someone in their 60's IMHO. I know several guys in the trades and they all plan on transitioning to general contractor by the time they're in their 50's/60's. Sorry, there are a lot more construction workers then general contractors so I think some of them will be out of luck. The desk jobs, yea that could be easier. But you have to keep up with advances and remain competitive and I know even in my late 40's I'm not picking up the new stuff as quickly as I did in my 20's. I don't know how quick I will be in my 60's . I guess I should have clarified that as working somewhere doing something, not necessarily doing what you did during your career and not necessarily making much either but enough to pay for your senior apartment and food. Walmart, fast food, factories...
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midwestlily
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Post by midwestlily on Nov 12, 2014 16:22:50 GMT -5
I suspect that my stepbrother and his wife are in this position, for a number of reasons. Not worried about them, because my father left my stepmother plenty of money, and I'm guessing that my stepbrother will end up with enough of it to get by.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Nov 12, 2014 16:24:08 GMT -5
As long as you stay healthy, there really is no reason people can't just plan to work until they die. Of course, if something happens and you're physically not able, you're screwed, but then I would think the government would kick in and take care of you. It's not what I want to do, but there are people that are perfectly cool with the idea of working forever. That's a really big gamble, though. Using my 50 year old friend as an example... she's very young looking and vibrant acting. Heck, she even still gets carded at bars occasionally. She is doing odd, cash jobs like cleaning houses or driving people around, neither of which is particularly strenuous. But whenever she's sick (even a bad cold - because people don't want you hacking and sneezing on their "clean" house), she misses work. A few months ago, a piece of tile came off a shower she was wiping and cut her hand badly enough to need 5 stiches - again out of work for several weeks. And when you're living like she is, there's no cushion of savings to tide her over when she doesn't have that cash coming in. So even if you're generally physically able to work until you die, IMHO it's pretty risky to rely on working a job with no real savings. Aside from the simple fact that many people end up not able to 'work until they die' for physical or other reasons, you're also making a preemptive decision for your old-age self based on what you feel today. A lot can change in 20, 30, or 40 years. I may like my job and want to stay today, but what will my 60 year old self think about the idea after another 20 years in it? Who knows?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 12, 2014 16:36:45 GMT -5
My SIL. She's either been a SAHM or worked low paying part time jobs without benefits (nursery school assistant, for instance). BIL used to earn a decent paycheck but ten years ago a new owner bought his company and the bonuses dried up, so times are tough for them right now. They have refinanced the house several times and although they've lived there 30 plus years, it will be a while longer before it's paid for.
He's 64 and wants to retire soon, but has no pension and once he quits, SIL loses her health insurance (she is 54 so not elgible for medicare for a while) unless they start paying for it.
SIL has been trying to find a job that provides health benefits for about 3 years now, but she's very specific in what type of job she wants - it has to be with a school, so she gets all the school holidays off (even though her youngest is a JR in HS - she has two grandkids and wants to spend her summers with them) - she doesn't want to be a classroom assistant, she only wants to work in the office areas, but her last office job was about 28 years ago, so her skills are poor. She complains she hasn't once gotten an interview in the past three years, despite sending lots of resumes in, but she won't consider broading her job search and considering different types of jobs, and meanwhile her DH gets closer and closer to retiring, so I don't know what they will do.
She's a very religious person, I think she's adopted a "God will provide" attitude, but if it was me, I'd be very nervous.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 16:44:07 GMT -5
I guess it was always instilled in my brain that I had to have health insurance. From the day I finished school, I had to find a job with health insurance, even if it required relocating.
A few years later, I had to start saving for retirement. That was life.
That is why it is hard for me to fathom grown, capable adults that are okay without those things. I would be a nervous wreck.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 16:45:25 GMT -5
OT: bluester.....do you have children? No. It was a choice I made.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 12, 2014 17:26:09 GMT -5
I guess it was always instilled in my brain that I had to have health insurance. From the day I finished school, I had to find a job with health insurance, even if it required relocating. A few years later, I had to start saving for retirement. That was life. That is why it is hard for me to fathom grown, capable adults that are okay without those things. I would be a nervous wreck. Some people are fine with risk, even large amounts of it. While not the same, it was drilled into me that if you didn't want a kid, you used two forms of birth control, even when you are married. Or you abstained. I was also taught that unprotected sex can lead to pregnancy. I don't understand "oopsie" or "surprise" babies for folks with normal fertility. I mean, if you don't use birth control, why would you be surprised that you got pregnant? I don't understand how one "forgets" to use even one form of birth control.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 12, 2014 17:32:51 GMT -5
... I don't understand how one "forgets" to use even one form of birth control.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Nov 12, 2014 17:37:45 GMT -5
I guess it was always instilled in my brain that I had to have health insurance. From the day I finished school, I had to find a job with health insurance, even if it required relocating. A few years later, I had to start saving for retirement. That was life. That is why it is hard for me to fathom grown, capable adults that are okay without those things. I would be a nervous wreck. My parents drilled it into my head that I should never go without health insurance or car insurance, pay credit cards off at the end of the month, save for the future, etc. It isn't until I start talking to people that I realize other people grew up very differently. My BFF never grew up hearing those things and had a father who actually encouraged her to purchase things that were way beyond her means. When she was in her early 20's and working in food service her father went with her to the dealership for the purchase of her first car. He encouraged her to buy a car with a $400 a month car payment . I am now convinced that many people just don't have a clue what the hell is actually important. I have seen lots of people spend oodles of money buying their kids meaningless crap instead of putting that money into a college fund. I am not saying kids shouldn't get presents, etc. but I have seen kids receive brand new cars for graduation, every modern electronic device known to man throughout the year, etc. and the parents have zero money saved to help pay for college. That is just really doing your child a major disservice IMHO but whatever...
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 12, 2014 17:57:46 GMT -5
I am now convinced that many people just don't have a clue what the hell is actually important. I have seen lots of people spend oodles of money buying their kids meaningless crap instead of putting that money into a college fund. I am not saying kids shouldn't get presents, etc. but I have seen kids receive brand new cars for graduation, every modern electronic device known to man throughout the year, etc. and the parents have zero money saved to help pay for college. That is just really doing your child a major disservice IMHO but whatever... As a parent, it's hard to teach your kids about 20 year delayed gratification. It's also hard to remember that the child that is only capable of pooping, eating, and crying is going to end spend most of their life as an adult. You notice your kids growing up. But, my oldest is 10, and I still really can't fathom him being an adult at some point. I will also likely not indulge them a little as adults, that's the job of their spouse. You also want your kid to fit in. Very few kids in DS's grade (5th) don't have iProducts. DS is one of them. We should not be getting him an iproduct for Christmas this year. It's the only thing besides an iTunes card he wants for Christmas from us, grandparents, and Santa. It would break my heart not to splurge on him. Even thought it would be easier on our budget if I bought him a $50 Santa gift and called it a day. I grew up as the kid that never had anything that their classmates had. It sucked.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Nov 12, 2014 18:10:37 GMT -5
I am now convinced that many people just don't have a clue what the hell is actually important. I have seen lots of people spend oodles of money buying their kids meaningless crap instead of putting that money into a college fund. I am not saying kids shouldn't get presents, etc. but I have seen kids receive brand new cars for graduation, every modern electronic device known to man throughout the year, etc. and the parents have zero money saved to help pay for college. That is just really doing your child a major disservice IMHO but whatever... As a parent, it's hard to teach your kids about 20 year delayed gratification. It's also hard to remember that the child that is only capable of pooping, eating, and crying is going to end spend most of their life as an adult. You notice your kids growing up. But, my oldest is 10, and I still really can't fathom him being an adult at some point. I will also likely not indulge them a little as adults, that's the job of their spouse. You also want your kid to fit in. Very few kids in DS's grade (5th) don't have iProducts. DS is one of them. We should not be getting him an iproduct for Christmas this year. It's the only thing besides an iTunes card he wants for Christmas from us, grandparents, and Santa. It would break my heart not to splurge on him. Even thought it would be easier on our budget if I bought him a $50 Santa gift and called it a day. I grew up as the kid that never had anything that their classmates had. It sucked. Oh, I completely understand what you are saying and I honestly don't think you fall into the category of what I mean (I may not have expressed myself very well). I am talking about parents purchasing brand new 30K cars for a sixteen year old but then not helping them with college expenses. This is something I witnessed first hand. This particular sixteen year old also went through about 4 iphones in one year (she kept losing them). In addition, she had a blow out sweet sixteen party. I have no idea what that thing costs but it probably wasn't cheap. Then the kid becomes a senior, starts applying to colleges and the parents have no money to help send her there. I was a little baffled. I realize that the combo of all those things would not have paid for 4 yrs of college but geez...
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Nov 12, 2014 18:52:37 GMT -5
One of my brothers. He has always worked in the construction industry, and has consistently been laid off for the winter. I'm sure he has no retirement savings. Over the past year, he has borrowed at least $20K from our parents for expenses that he should have anticipated. He sold his house five years ago and moved in with his SO. Whatever equity he had is just gone. The only health insurance he's had in the past 5+ years are policies that our father paid for (Dad's thinking is that if brother has a major medical expense, Dad will wind up paying it.) Dad's not real good at keeping up with bills lately so the policy lapsed a while ago.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Nov 12, 2014 19:27:44 GMT -5
I'm not sure what "coasting" means. When I was broke and and struggling and confused, I still did my damnedest to keep up appearances. I didn't want people who were doing better than me to feel sorry for me (or empty their chamber pots onto my head), but far more important than that was how I appeared to my new peers.
My new peers were a bit needy and I learned very quickly not to present myself as a possible solution to their problems. There were definite benefits to appearing broke around such coworkers. I'm pretty sure that the habit of presenting myself as "untappable" or "unexploitable" to such acquaintances carried over a bit to my relations with folks that were better off.
I wasn't too anxious to share my financial successes with anyone. Folks that were doing better than me weren't impressed and may have pitied me. Folks that weren't doing better than me had their hand out.
I got vague as a result.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Nov 12, 2014 19:43:37 GMT -5
My SIL. She's either been a SAHM or worked low paying part time jobs without benefits (nursery school assistant, for instance). BIL used to earn a decent paycheck but ten years ago a new owner bought his company and the bonuses dried up, so times are tough for them right now. They have refinanced the house several times and although they've lived there 30 plus years, it will be a while longer before it's paid for. He's 64 and wants to retire soon, but has no pension and once he quits, SIL loses her health insurance (she is 54 so not elgible for medicare for a while) unless they start paying for it. SIL has been trying to find a job that provides health benefits for about 3 years now, but she's very specific in what type of job she wants - it has to be with a school, so she gets all the school holidays off (even though her youngest is a JR in HS - she has two grandkids and wants to spend her summers with them) - she doesn't want to be a classroom assistant, she only wants to work in the office areas, but her last office job was about 28 years ago, so her skills are poor. She complains she hasn't once gotten an interview in the past three years, despite sending lots of resumes in, but she won't consider broading her job search and considering different types of jobs, and meanwhile her DH gets closer and closer to retiring, so I don't know what they will do. She's a very religious person, I think she's adopted a "God will provide" attitude, but if it was me, I'd be very nervous. Looked in the mirror lately? Noticed that it says GOD above your image? Well, not really. It says taxpayer. You and I will end up providing for your BIL and SIL so they have enough food to eat and so they have a roof over their head that doesn't leak. Their life won't be much fun. But, beyond the SS, you and I will provide for the limited lifestyle they have.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Nov 12, 2014 19:54:31 GMT -5
Do you know anyone coasting through life without health insurance or a retirement plan? Do you think that concerns them? I know of a few, in their 40s and 50s already, but I never want to bring the subject up. All I can do is hope for the best . . . . . You're talking about my brother, the ski bum. Mostly worked at part time/seasonal jobs that weren't too demanding. No insurance, no retirement beyond SS. Spent whatever he made. Was in his mid 50's before his employer took pity on him and put him on the benefits plan. He'll work as long as he can, but eventually he'll have to retire. It'll be slim pickins by that time. Oldest Sis hasn't coasted, but won't have diddly. Married a guy who is a self employed spendthrift. Has made a really good living, but they've got nothing to show for it, including retirement savings, because, despite Sis's best efforts, he has manged to spend everything.
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on Nov 12, 2014 19:57:59 GMT -5
Most everyone in my family. My father always worked jobs making good money, but he spent more than he made and the only retirement he had was employer contributions that he cashed out as soon as he left the jobs. Other family had the same mindset. Fortunately the last job he had offered insurance and he went out on disability so is retired now. He'll get disability for a bit longer, then he'll live off of social security. Fortunately my sibling is getting more responsible and has a job with benefits now, but still spends like there's no tomorrow.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 12, 2014 20:14:41 GMT -5
Oh, I completely understand what you are saying and I honestly don't think you fall into the category of what I mean (I may not have expressed myself very well). I am talking about parents purchasing brand new 30K cars for a sixteen year old but then not helping them with college expenses. This is something I witnessed first hand. This particular sixteen year old also went through about 4 iphones in one year (she kept losing them). In addition, she had a blow out sweet sixteen party. I have no idea what that thing costs but it probably wasn't cheap. Then the kid becomes a senior, starts applying to colleges and the parents have no money to help send her there. I was a little baffled. I realize that the combo of all those things would not have paid for 4 yrs of college but geez... Actually, I still think it's the same. Parents want to give their kids the best that they can and indulge a child.. It doesn't matter, I think the income level. Some of the low income kids that I work with are having quinceaneras that are way nicer than my wedding ever was. We're likely talking about dropping close 50% of a years' household income on one party.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 21:58:57 GMT -5
As a parent, it's hard to teach your kids about 20 year delayed gratification. <snip> We should not be getting him an iproduct for Christmas this year. It's the only thing besides an iTunes card he wants for Christmas from us, grandparents, and Santa. It would break my heart not to splurge on him. Even thought it would be easier on our budget if I bought him a $50 Santa gift and called it a day. I grew up as the kid that never had anything that their classmates had. It sucked. Don't feel bad. My parents told us all the time that they were saving for our college educations and we couldn't have everything we wanted. The first 2-wheel bike I ever owned was a Christmas gift my sister and I had to share-and it was bought used. We had knockoff Barbies and made clothes for them. We also made our own to save money. (My sister was asked to consider surgery as a specialty when she went to Med school.). I SO wanted to go to Europe when a group of students from my HS went with a couple of teachers. Definitely not in the budget. My parents kept their promises. All 5 of us went through college, no loans. We always had food, clothing and a decent house to live in. But, to get back to the OT, I just read that Boeing employees are passing up a total of $98 million by not participating or not getting the maximum match in the 401(k) plan. So yeah, there are a lot of people in that boat.
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Nov 13, 2014 3:14:51 GMT -5
My little brother. He doesn't work (even though he has 2 kids) and sponges off these desperate women that support him. Honestly I thought he'd be dead by now, he'll turn 30 in a couple of weeks.
I'm not sure he will make it to retirement given his lifestyle of drugs, alcohol etc and the fact that he is nearly blind and not wearing glasses or receiving any preventative healthcare. I haven't seen or spoken to him since my mom's funeral several years ago, and I hadn't spoken to him for years before that. For a while we thought he would straiten up after my mom's death, but he hasn't. There is only so long your body will let you go on this way before you have a stroke or heart attack or just die in the middle of a drug deal or raid.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 6:54:52 GMT -5
This discussion is one reason why I am in favor of some sort of mandatory retirement savings plan. Ours is a pension that we contribute 7.5% to. It is tiered so employees hired in the last three years receive lesser benefits but only pay 6%. We also pay Social Security.
How many of you think those new teachers are saving the 1.5% that they don't have to contribute? Me, neither. When you only earn about $36,000 a year and have student loans, a car payment, etc., you aren't worried about retirement. They probably cheered at the idea of the miniscule "raise" they received by not contributing as much. Since they can't retire until their sixties, regardless of service (one of the changes), retirement is forty years away. The car payment is due next week.
Somehow retirement savings has to become mandatory. Social Security did that, but then it has become perceived as an entitlement program instead of a return on what employees and employers had contributed. So I think most people would be doubtful of letting the government set up a mandatory program.
But something has to be done, or the few are going to end up paying even more for the many. It's only sort of bad now. There are still some small pensions out there, etc. Social Security isn't means tested at the moment except for taxation. But the next wave are the real stress on our system.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Nov 13, 2014 8:37:09 GMT -5
OT: bluester.....do you have children? No. It was a choice I made. Understood. Thanks for responding.
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 11, 2024 2:21:15 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 9:04:31 GMT -5
Another example of this which still boggles my mind: last June my former HS class held a fund-raiser for a classmate who needed total hip replacement. He's a nightclub entertainer in our Rust Belt town, and, according to a friend on FB, had no insurance. I'm assuming that he knew this was a health issue last year when it was time to sign up for Obamacare. There were subsidies available if his income was that low. So why no insurance?
I did contribute. In addition to unreimbursed medical expenses he couldn't work for something like 6 weeks afterward.
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