Dog aggression - what is behind it?

[Deleted]

Background: BFF has three dogs, all small rescues days away from death row, dachshund cross, terrier cross, Chihuahua cross, all super friendly once they got past an initial shyness due to lack of socialization with people in general.  They are currently very well socialized to humans and other dogs, cats, etc.  EXCEPT for one neighbor who is an occasional visitor to the owners' house.  This woman has two dogs of her own and is generally well received by other neighborhood dogs that are walked past her house.  BFF's three dogs totally reject this neighbor - if the neighbor visits the dogs' home, one will avoid passively, one will avoid actively (wet herself and hide) and one will become highly aggressive to the point of biting.  DH and I dog-sat the trio this weekend and walked them daily.  Sunday we walked the terrier and Chihuahua cross past the neighbor's house when she was working in her yard.  The terrier was not aggressive, but she sat very close to DH in a defensive posture. The Chihuahua cross, the newest rescue, was absolutely hysterical, struggling frantically against her harness when the neighbor was 8-10 feet away.  

BFF, DH and I are really struggling to understand what is happening here because all three dogs readily accept other newcomers to their world, even at home on their own turf.  Why do they reject or attack one woman?  She is a very heavy smoker, reeking strongly of tobacco, an alcoholic and has two, poorly cared for, dogs of her own.  She says, "they smell my dogs" but I can leave her house with her dogs' scent on me and BFF's dogs show no response to that odor on me. BFF is concerned that her trio smell some sort of serious illness on the neighbor, maybe cancer, because there is a lot of documentation for dogs smelling disease. I just want to understand the way three gorgeous dogs interpret their world so I can help their owners.  

[Tiny]

Well, I've read some articles about dogs being trained to smell certain kinds of cancer and I'd be willing to give it some credibility... but I highly doubt the dogs are reacting to something of that nature. Think of all the various things dogs can smell (they've got great noses!) that they just filter out as 'background smells' they have to be trained to realize that the smell the trainer wants them to react to shouldn't be considered 'background smell'.

Kinda like how you don't notice a particular make of car - until you purchase one and suddenly you see that make/model EVERYWHERE. That's the kind of filtering I'm talking about.

That said, maybe it's the tobacco/alcohol combination that sets them off (due to familiarity with it in a bad way from their past). You probably come home from visiting her smelling of smokes (and maybe that sour alcohol smell IF she's spilled beer on rugs or chairs and not cleaned it up well (it's a house smell at that point). But, the dogs know you. so they may just give you the hairy eyeball and accept you are still you.

Or maybe it's something about her physical shape/size or her voice - I've witnessed dogs that were afraid of people wearing hats or guys with beards or people with glasses or when someone would wear a long coat (winter coat).   Sometimes dogs just react to a person's body language.    I've seen how a really 'scared of dogs' person can effect the behavior of an otherwise friendly dog.

Is there someone at the shelter that might be able to help with the dogs? I live in an urban area and I would think that most of the shelters would have an animal behaviorist kinda person on staff - to help figure out which doggies/kitties will make the transition to a new home AND how to help the people who adopt them help the doggies/kitties make the transition.

[msventoux]

Similar to Tiny, I think it could be a bad association they have with tobacco or alcohol smells due to their past, since they're all rescues. 

Or it could be some physical characteristic of the woman.  One of my dogs gets really tense when she's around newer people with random traits.  One is a woman with a really loud, rough smoker's voice that pretty much sounds like a man.  She doesn't like women with big hair...think 80's sprayed to the heavens hair or big perms.  She also doesn't like men in stocking hats (ball caps are fine) or guys with big, bushy beards. 

My dog is a complete sweetheart and pretty well trained and socialized, but she gets really nervous around anyone with the above characteristics.  She's also not a rescue and I've had her since she was a puppy so she hasn't been abused.  She hasn't done anything when faced with these types of people, but I can tell she gets uncomfortable so I make sure they don't try to force the issue with petting her. 

[Deleted]

All 3 dogs acting afraid of her? Not cancer. She did something to those dogs. Something mean. Did she ever take care of the dogs for the neighbor? 3 dogs that came at different times and different rescues mean that lady did something bad to them.

[milee]

Could be that she did something "mean" or could be another interaction. One of my neighbors has a Chihuahua and a Boxer. Both are normally well behaved and he lets them hang out off the leash when he's in his yard. One day when I ran past his yard I didn't see the owner but the Chihuahua appeared from nowhere, chased after me growling and barking and tried to bite the back of my heel. I wasn't too worried about getting hurt by the Chihuahua but was worried that the Chihuahua's aggression would encourage the Boxer to come get involved (pack behavior) which could be fairly serious.  So I turned around and in a really stern voice yelled "NO!" at the Chihuahua.  It stopped in its tracks, looked shocked and started backing up.  I yelled "NO!" at it again and moved toward it to get it to back off.  At that point it looked scared and started running home.  Even though I never touched the dog and only defended myself by yelling "no" when it tried to bite me, it's now afraid of me.

Something similar could have happened in OP's situation.  The neighbor had some interaction with one of the dogs (could have been her being mean or just some other interaction that caused the dog to be afraid) and the other dogs are reacting the same way because they've learned it from the first dog.

[thyme4change]

I agree with Rukh - one of those dogs (likely the aggressive one) has some reason, valid or not, to not like this lady, and the other two dogs don't like how the third dog acts when the lady is around, so now they associate that lady with a bad situation - even if they forgot that it wasn't the lady per say,  but the other dog that was wigging them out.  

[violagirl]

I have terrier/dachshunds and I have found these types of dogs are very sensitive. You do not need to physically hurt them or even touch them to make them nervous. And they never forget. 
Maybe that woman employed some Cesar Milan techniques on the dogs or even yelled at them once. If they were scared they will never forget it. Or maybe someone who smelled like her did the same to them, the fact that all three react that way seems odd. I can see fear aggression from one dog could definitely create a pack mentality, but if they all react oddly to her even when they see her while away from the rest of the dogs...I'd say she scared them somehow before. 

[Deleted]

Thanks everyone for all the good input.  Dogs definitely feed off vibes that people give off and the lady in question is a very harsh and eccentric individual known for her aggressive expression of radical opinions about everything so the dogs may be picking up not only her energy, but the sort of "pulling away" reaction most people have to her.  Interestingly, her own dogs are totally rowdy and completely untrained and her cats incredibly shy and flighty.  

[Abby Normal]

Nov 10, 2014 23:08:16 GMT -5 @donethat said:

Background: BFF has three dogs, all small rescues days away from death row, dachshund cross, terrier cross, Chihuahua cross, all super friendly once they got past an initial shyness due to lack of socialization with people in general.  They are currently very well socialized to humans and other dogs, cats, etc.  EXCEPT for one neighbor who is an occasional visitor to the owners' house.  This woman has two dogs of her own and is generally well received by other neighborhood dogs that are walked past her house.  BFF's three dogs totally reject this neighbor - if the neighbor visits the dogs' home, one will avoid passively, one will avoid actively (wet herself and hide) and one will become highly aggressive to the point of biting.  DH and I dog-sat the trio this weekend and walked them daily.  Sunday we walked the terrier and Chihuahua cross past the neighbor's house when she was working in her yard.  The terrier was not aggressive, but she sat very close to DH in a defensive posture. The Chihuahua cross, the newest rescue, was absolutely hysterical, struggling frantically against her harness when the neighbor was 8-10 feet away.  

BFF, DH and I are really struggling to understand what is happening here because all three dogs readily accept other newcomers to their world, even at home on their own turf.  Why do they reject or attack one woman?  She is a very heavy smoker, reeking strongly of tobacco, an alcoholic and has two, poorly cared for, dogs of her own.  She says, "they smell my dogs" but I can leave her house with her dogs' scent on me and BFF's dogs show no response to that odor on me. BFF is concerned that her trio smell some sort of serious illness on the neighbor, maybe cancer, because there is a lot of documentation for dogs smelling disease. I just want to understand the way three gorgeous dogs interpret their world so I can help their owners.  

If your BFF is not a smoker this is likely the culprit.  Many animals respond to smoke with instinctual fear.  Think how many movie shots you see with animals running away, before flames are present.  They are reacting to the smell of the smoke.

Both my dogs react to the scent of drugs and smoke (DS is screwed because the dogs will rat him out if he ever tries either).  The one dog react to either fire smoke or cigarette smoke. (it could also be some other smell on her that they don't like- it's not necessarily the dogs- it could be perfume, medication...)

It may be that only one of the three dogs is actually bothered, probably the pack leader, and because that dog is bothered the others are as well. 

What you can try is having some extra special, super yummy treats that are only given to them by the neighbor.  That may help lessen their reaction.  See if you can round up another smoker to see if they react the same way.  I have a friend (heavy smoker) who is helping me train my dog not to freak out at people who smell like cigarette smoke. 

[weltschmerz]

Nov 10, 2014 23:08:16 GMT -5 @donethat said:

Background: BFF has three dogs, all small rescues days away from death row, dachshund cross, terrier cross, Chihuahua cross, all super friendly once they got past an initial shyness due to lack of socialization with people in general.  They are currently very well socialized to humans and other dogs, cats, etc.  EXCEPT for one neighbor who is an occasional visitor to the owners' house.  This woman has two dogs of her own and is generally well received by other neighborhood dogs that are walked past her house.  BFF's three dogs totally reject this neighbor - if the neighbor visits the dogs' home, one will avoid passively, one will avoid actively (wet herself and hide) and one will become highly aggressive to the point of biting.  DH and I dog-sat the trio this weekend and walked them daily.  Sunday we walked the terrier and Chihuahua cross past the neighbor's house when she was working in her yard.  The terrier was not aggressive, but she sat very close to DH in a defensive posture. The Chihuahua cross, the newest rescue, was absolutely hysterical, struggling frantically against her harness when the neighbor was 8-10 feet away.  

BFF, DH and I are really struggling to understand what is happening here because all three dogs readily accept other newcomers to their world, even at home on their own turf.  Why do they reject or attack one woman?  She is a very heavy smoker, reeking strongly of tobacco, an alcoholic and has two, poorly cared for, dogs of her own.  She says, "they smell my dogs" but I can leave her house with her dogs' scent on me and BFF's dogs show no response to that odor on me. BFF is concerned that her trio smell some sort of serious illness on the neighbor, maybe cancer, because there is a lot of documentation for dogs smelling disease. I just want to understand the way three gorgeous dogs interpret their world so I can help their owners.  

Always listen to the dogs. They know what they're talking about. There's always a reason they don't like someone.

[weltschmerz]

I'm a smoker and it doesn't seem to bother dogs.
I make friends with every dog I meet. I've had dogs trying to lick the skin off my face, only to have the owner run out of the store, yelling "Lady! My dog is aggressive! Stand back!"

[Abby Normal]

Nov 11, 2014 16:47:19 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I'm a smoker and it doesn't seem to bother dogs.
I make friends with every dog I meet. I've had dogs trying to lick the skin off my face, only to have the owner run out of the store, yelling "Lady! My dog is aggressive! Stand back!"

Not all dogs, but some, are more sensitive to it. 

Maybe it's just your charming disposition!

[Virgil Showlion]

Nov 11, 2014 16:44:00 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Always listen to the dogs. They know what they're talking about. There's always a reason they don't like someone.

Indeed, but is it a good reason? And just as importantly: is it something remediable?

[HoneyBBQ]

Nov 11, 2014 6:20:37 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Nov 11, 2014 1:26:22 GMT -5 @taliare said:

All 3 dogs acting afraid of her? Not cancer. She did something to those dogs. Something mean. Did she ever take care of the dogs for the neighbor? 3 dogs that came at different times and different rescues mean that lady did something bad to them.

It could be just one dog had a reaction to her and taught the other dogs.

Yes. I have an "instigator" and a "reactor."

You might try taking one dog at a time near her and seeing what happens.

[emma1420]

Nov 11, 2014 6:20:37 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Nov 11, 2014 1:26:22 GMT -5 @taliare said:

All 3 dogs acting afraid of her? Not cancer. She did something to those dogs. Something mean. Did she ever take care of the dogs for the neighbor? 3 dogs that came at different times and different rescues mean that lady did something bad to them.

It could be just one dog had a reaction to her and taught the other dogs.

I think this is likely.   And the lady doesn't need to have ever done anything to any of them, just be provoke a bad reaction.  One of my dogs, who was a rescue, would go nuts at road bikes (other kinds of bikes he had no issue with, but he hated road bikes, it was wierd).  He would strain at the least, bare his teeth, basically looked like he want to kill the bike.   My other dog, who I've had since she was a puppy, started doing the same thing.  She's never had a bad bike encounter in her life.   She was just following her "brothers" lead.  Now, he's since gone across the rainbow bridge her behavior towards bikes stopped.  

So it could be that the neighbor provokes a reaction in one of them and that spurs the behavior of the others as Rukh suggested.