Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Nov 4, 2014 20:58:33 GMT -5
Maybe, too, she her kids/family accept change better when it comes from an authority figure? That's an interesting possibility too. I always think of the scene from the Wiz when the travelers enter the City of OZ...and the ever changing colors based on the whims of the Great and Powerful Oz. We humans do like to do as we are told - even when it conflicts with our beliefs. (see Milgram's experiment). Not to mention Loki in the Avengers and his little speech when he arrives on Earth telling the humans how much we like to be ruled - no, need to be ruled to be happy.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 4, 2014 21:12:28 GMT -5
I could see that, but she is a nurse. She *knew* her son was autistic way before he got an official diagnosis. Each of my kids had a problem that I *knew* full well was a problem, but it took a couple of teachers sitting me down and saying "solve this" before I could really accept that it was not just going to evaporate, and I was going to have to take action. And when I did, I well full throttle. Once I realized that I had my head up my ass, and my children were paying the price, I ripped that head right out of my ass - tearing my ass to shreds. I didn't bother pulling it out slowly, as to not cause so much damage. As it turned out, the solutions to the problems my kids had weren't nearly as bad as I had anticipated, and we had full recovery - not a more chronic condition. I have come to realize that understanding the grieving process can apply to so much more than death. I see people use all sorts of methods for dealing with bad news - including denial. You really don't know her full journey, and why she didn't change her diet until after the diagnosis was complete.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 4, 2014 21:40:43 GMT -5
I have seen parents try anything no matter how bizarre just convinced it will make their kid normal, I understand exactly what she is doing it won't help but she will figure that out in time.
I can imagine that if you feel helpless, doing something feels better than doing nothing.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 4, 2014 21:59:59 GMT -5
OK, may be OP was not a good example, but most of you seem to concentrate on this one incident.
It's not about someone's diet or someone's one diagnosis. It's about the fact that some people seem to be very committed to one thing one day and just as committed to the opposite a minute later.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2014 22:02:46 GMT -5
So, give better examples
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Nov 4, 2014 22:20:51 GMT -5
OK, may be OP was not a good example, but most of you seem to concentrate on this one incident. It's not about someone's diet or someone's one diagnosis. It's about the fact that some people seem to be very committed to one thing one day and just as committed to the opposite a minute later. Well there you go! It's not the belief that matters, it's the desire the go all the way in whatever it is. In part, I think that it has to do with weakness. They are constantly "falling" for ideas. I have often found this with people who have "found" religion. They spent all this time being lost and just feeling miserable and living their lives in "sin," and then one day, they find something to believe in that validates their being. People like that are weak and will fall hard for [fill in cause du jour/new diet/religions/get rich schemes] And as for the OP example, if the nurse was feeding her children "everything," I guess that I don't what is so bad with that. Everything would include: meat, vegetables, dairy, fruit and junk food.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Nov 4, 2014 22:49:16 GMT -5
So, give better examples Well, a fashion minded friend who is often all over the latest craze and how nothing before or nothing after will be as good... and then the next craze comes along.
Or the person who swears they will never learn how to do X which they need for their job - because it's stupid, wrong, they hate it, whatever. They struggle for a year or two until management finally ends the agony and fires them. Then all of sudden they 'see the light' and learn how to do X and X is the greatest thing.
Or the person who swears they will NEVER buy a 'japanese' car --never ever over their dead body - Yeah! America/American Worker/whatever. And then one day they come home with a brand new Toyota and it's all about how great their new car is...
Or the person who pooh pooh's a sports team and the sport's fans and the TV coverage of said sport and can't understand why anyone would waste time with it. But then when the team is winning they are like "I've been a SuperFan since I was 5!! Go Team!"
Or sometimes even a moral value - like say that homosexuality is morally wrong - people choose it/whatever they are pretty vocal about it and their belief -- and then their kid comes out of the closet and it suddenly, atleast their kid isn't going to burn in Hell, and they stop spouting how wrong it is. Sometimes how fast a person's tune changes is stunning. I would expect that someone with a strongly held belief that they've invested a lot of time and thought in would/could still make the change but that it wouldn't be overnight.
Or a moral value about the local public schools... mother with preschool kid "Oh, NO! I'd never send my kid to that filthy, dangerous, public school!!" but yet when the kid is school aged it's off to the public school they go and mom spouts about al the wonderful things the school has to offer. Another one of those "wow that was quick" opinion changes....
Now of these are really all that life changing... but they still are things that make me go "hmmm"...
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truthbound
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Post by truthbound on Nov 5, 2014 1:55:57 GMT -5
There is a mother in my homeschooling group who had very lax ideas about diet for her kids. They ate everything and anything, including some very crappy things. Well, her DS has autisim and ever since they got an official diagnosis, she did a complete 180. She is posting pictures of gluten free, dairy free, egg free foods, Whole Natural Shakes, she is now selling some kind of wonder juice and keep posting messages about all the most natural ways to feed your family. It's like she went from eating the crappiest of foods to....I don't even know...the latest "healthiest" of foods. There are also some women who did this 180 on parenting styles and discipline. There are other examples as well. I get that people learn new things and change their habits and behaviors. But how can you be so convinced of one thing and then so convinced of the complete opposite? I don't trust people like that at all. Is it just me being all cynical and cranky? I don't think you are being cranky. In this case not sure why that particular course was taken. There isn't a food that makes someone less autistic. And quite refreshing to see you use the words 'latest healthiest' foods. I swear if I hear the words Kale or gluten much more my head will explode.
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 5, 2014 2:20:08 GMT -5
Kale. Gluten.
We will miss you.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 5, 2014 8:11:36 GMT -5
OK, may be OP was not a good example, but most of you seem to concentrate on this one incident. It's not about someone's diet or someone's one diagnosis. It's about the fact that some people seem to be very committed to one thing one day and just as committed to the opposite a minute later. Was she "very committed" to junk food, or did she just default to junk food because it is easy, cheap, no fighting with the kids, etc? I defaulted to Christianity because that is what my family did. I just kept trying and trying and then one day I said "this is working for me." (And I remember the exact day that it happened.) I might have looked "very committed" but in reality, I didn't give it a thought, it wasn't an option. I have defaulted to hundreds if not thousands of things. Going on the diet route (because it is easy) I eat generally how my parents taught me to eat, with extra junk food thrown in because junk food is easy (and delicious!) If I decided to eat clean, remove gluten, become vegan - basically care at all - it would be my first real conscious choice. You might just be watching someone finally have a real opinion for the first time on the subject.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 5, 2014 8:40:51 GMT -5
OK, may be OP was not a good example, but most of you seem to concentrate on this one incident. It's not about someone's diet or someone's one diagnosis. It's about the fact that some people seem to be very committed to one thing one day and just as committed to the opposite a minute later. Was she "very committed" to junk food, or did she just default to junk food because it is easy, cheap, no fighting with the kids, etc?
I defaulted to Christianity because that is what my family did. I just kept trying and trying and then one day I said "this is working for me." (And I remember the exact day that it happened.) I might have looked "very committed" but in reality, I didn't give it a thought, it wasn't an option. I have defaulted to hundreds if not thousands of things. Going on the diet route (because it is easy) I eat generally how my parents taught me to eat, with extra junk food thrown in because junk food is easy (and delicious!) If I decided to eat clean, remove gluten, become vegan - basically care at all - it would be my first real conscious choice. You might just be watching someone finally have a real opinion for the first time on the subject. Her stand was that eating "whatever" is really not a big deal and she would roll her eyes at other moms in the group who would try to bring healthy snacks for activities. She told everyone that first solids her kids had were pizza and other "regular" food. She made fun of all those "scary plastic bottles" and would give them those fruity drinks that you can get 10/$1 She didn't think there was any real scientific proof that organic, gluten free and the like have any kind of benefit. Now, she is posting recipes of flour free, dairy free, egg free banana cookies and "healthy" shakes that she feeds the kids for breakfast. She is also selling some kind of wonder juice that is suppose to make you super human.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 5, 2014 8:48:37 GMT -5
Boom - there it is.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 5, 2014 8:51:28 GMT -5
OK, may be OP was not a good example, but most of you seem to concentrate on this one incident. It's not about someone's diet or someone's one diagnosis. It's about the fact that some people seem to be very committed to one thing one day and just as committed to the opposite a minute later. My husband spent most of his life convinced that organics, homeopathic remedies and buying local was stupid and a way to charge higher prices to the buying public. He had heartburn for years. Doctor put him on Prilosec. When it got worse, the doctor upped the dosage. Something made DH read the labeling and warnings after a year or so on the upped dosage. He decided he didn't want to be on meds anymore and started looking at alternatives. Cut out all processed foods cold turkey after reading about Candidia Diets. Was pretty much living on supplements and veggies. To the point where her was skin and bones. I was dealing with 2 kids under the age of 3 when this started and suffering ppd. He's modified his diet since then but he's eating mostly organic, no gluten, no dairy, locally sourced foods and using some homeopathic remedies.
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 5, 2014 9:14:13 GMT -5
No joke.
I have an acquaintance whose daughter had some very severe congenital heart problems as a toddler. Multiple surgeries, near death, weeks in the ICU ... the stuff of every parents' nightmares. Of course everyone who knew her tried to help and support however they could - bring food, watch the other child, whatever. Then she became convinced that this product she also conveniently sells - Juice Plus - is what saved her daughter. So whenever anyone would provide help, support, comfort or check in with her we'd all be treated to the sales pitch on how we should be buying and giving our kids this miracle product. It was uncomfortable.
She's now pretty high up in their multi-level marketing organization and it looks like one of their primary sales techniques is to have their sales people use FaceBook, school functions, their Christmas letter and any social gatherings to pitch the idea that unless you're eating a certain way and giving your family Juice Plus, that you will all die a horrible death.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 5, 2014 9:14:23 GMT -5
My husband ate fast food every day - he stood up for it. One day, he decided to give it up. He really hasn't eaten fast food since, and he lost 50 pounds.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Nov 5, 2014 11:30:01 GMT -5
Mmmmm, 3 ingredient cookies (well, mine are more like 5 or 6 ingredient cause I add shredded coconut and chopped nuts and maybe alittle bit of honey).... still darn tasty things... It's unfortunate that an old time-y favorite has been twisted to the gluten free/not calling it vegan food bandwagon. Not so sure about 'shakes' and juices being all that 'healthy' - mostly cause you'd probably still be hungry after consuming them and would just eat more later... and yes, you can pack on pounds eating only 'healthy' food.
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truthbound
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Post by truthbound on Nov 6, 2014 4:48:38 GMT -5
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 6, 2014 8:02:29 GMT -5
Could be. All of those things are like cults. Once someone gets in there, you need to either wait it out (until they lose so much money they give up on it) or send in a deprogrammer.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 6, 2014 10:46:23 GMT -5
OK, may be OP was not a good example, but most of you seem to concentrate on this one incident. It's not about someone's diet or someone's one diagnosis. It's about the fact that some people seem to be very committed to one thing one day and just as committed to the opposite a minute later. I think some people have a personality that makes them behave this way. The guy who was the best man at our wedding did this. He would buy an old car to fix up, work on it every spare moment for the next three months, find a local group of people that collected that kind of car and join them, travel to special shows for that type of car, and all he wanted to talk about his car. Then six months later, he sold the partly refinished car and dropped out of all his groups and social functions surrounding that car, and moved to the next thing. Took on a major home repair project, worked on it non stop a few months, then left it half finished. Joined the Masons, studied all the different levels, went to all the different meetings, then suddenly dropped out completely after six months. He'll be a dedicated church man, volunteering for everything, being a school teacher and an usher, then he'll stop attending church for a few years, and then he'll once again become religious - at least for a while. The only thing I can figure is he gets bored easily and/or nothing is ever as fun and exciting as he thinks it will be, but if I was his wife, I would have to kill him. Knew another guy who was a little like this, but his motivation was clear - he changed skins everytime he dated a different woman. When he dated the fashionable woman he stopped wearing polo shirts and kakhis' to work and started showing up in expensive, fashionable suits and ties. Stopped dating her and it was back to polos. Started dating the Christian woman and he joined the choir and attended church Wednesdays and Sundays. Put a Jesus fish on his truck. Stopped dating her, stopped going to church, pried the Jesus fish off his truck. Then he started dating the daughter of a high ranking air force person, and next thing we knew, he quit his job and joined the Air Force. At least that last one took - he married that GF
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Nov 8, 2014 0:44:58 GMT -5
Just as a disclaimer I am not vegan, but yes, they avoid anything that they perceive to cause animal suffering. So much like they don't consume dairy or eggs because the treatment of the animals to get those products, they do not wear wool or silk because of what it takes to get those products. I'm a pescatarian, but I still wear leather, and here's why. Cows and pigs are slaughtered by the millions in order to supply the populace with Big Macs and BBQ ribs. Millions. What do you suggest we do with the skin? Throw it out? If I buy leather shoes, I'm not creating more of a demand for leather. Those animals will be killed for food ANYWAY, whether I buy leather shoes or not. However, if I buy a steak or pork chops, I'm creating more of demand, and more animals will be killed. Simples. Not all leather comes from animals slated for meat processing, but with that aside the vegan argument would be that by purchasing leather you are lining the pockets of people in inhumane industries. They would consider the act of skinning a dead animal for leather not to be a judicious use of the animal, but rather a way to maximize profits. So yes, you create a demand for dead animals by buying leather because the people in the industry don't care if their money comes from the sale of leather, steaks, or meat byproducts turned into dog food. As long as they are making money they will continue to slaughter animals so buying leather helps keep them in business. Now personally I eat some meat and I wear leather, silk, wool, etc, and eat honey. When I do eat meat I make sure it is as humanely treated as possible.
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Nov 8, 2014 1:07:57 GMT -5
Just as a disclaimer I am not vegan, but yes, they avoid anything that they perceive to cause animal suffering. So much like they don't consume dairy or eggs because the treatment of the animals to get those products, they do not wear wool or silk because of what it takes to get those products. Vegans might also avoid any insect products as well..so certain makeup ingredients or dyes. They may even avoid products that are 'tested on animals'. The 'vegetarian' who eats meat/fish once a week - is either a pescitarian (if they don't eat meat only seafood) or a flexitarian (eats meat and fish occassionally) -- if you want to split hairs and give names to groups of dietary rules. I say I'm a flexitarian when someone comments on how I always order something without meat or they've noticed my lunches are generally critter free. I'll eat meat/fish if it's 'convenient' - like when joining family/friends at the primo steak and seafood restaurant to celebrate something. Or if meat is part of the 'traditional meal' - like Thanksgiving or the Family Picnic when we roast lamb or a pig. I'm not a vegetarian even though I may be mistaken for one. I don't have enough moral outrage to totally and completely avoid eating meat/fish and to make a big fuss about it... but I do have enough to feel that not eating critter with every meal is probably a worth while endeavor towards making the world a better place. I have gone 6 months with out eating critters (eggs and dairy were on the menu). Tiny, I am like you. I don't always eat meat. I don't care for the taste of eggs, I like almond milk instead of regular, and I often eat vegetarian or vegan dishes. I am particular about the meat I do eat, but if I am in a group setting and the majority wants something I don't I will roll with it or not eat. I don't make a personal demand and call myself vegetarian or vegan just to get my way. I can pick around the meat, eat other dishes, or not at all. I don't need to draw attention to myself. My personal issue is with people who insist on having vegetarian/vegan options at group functions such as work events, and they tell people strait up that they are vegetarian/vegan in a group settings as a way to get attention or hold the group hostage to their personal demands when on their own time they binge on food that doesn't coincide with the beliefs they are constantly expressing as loudly as possible to the group. Almost all of the true vegetarian/vegan people I know are quiet about it. They come prepared with snacks in case whatever is served doesn't meet their needs, and they generally don't lecture others on the evils of animal products. They don't do what they do for a kudos. If people are looking at reducing meat or animal product consumption, good for them. But like you say they need to call themselves flexitarian, or be up front about what they are doing. They should not try to pass themselves off as a certain thing just to get control over food choices. For the record, I also feel this way about people who lie and say they are allergic to a food that they simply don't like to eat. I know a lady that claimed she was allergic to tomatoes, so at work functions we could never do a lot of commonly popular foods like pizza or other italian food. If we went out we always had to pick a place that had enough non tomato options for her. Come to find out she wasn't allergic at all. For years she forced others to eat foods they didn't necessarily like or to forgo the group meal all together just because of her preferences which she passed off as medical necessity. Totally selfish on her part.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2014 9:55:14 GMT -5
Its easy to be veg if you are Hindu person. If you go to friends home for a meal even if they eat meat they will offer veg. And the meat food will not have beef so Hindus that eat meat are not gonna worry about it.
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