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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 18:02:52 GMT -5
Milee, you were right.
I'm all for adding new words into the dictionary, but not for slaughtering the ones that already exist LOL.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 16, 2014 18:06:19 GMT -5
Thanks. I've always wondered since he made such a big production out of correcting me, laughing all the while. Although I thought it was the first way, I figured - hey, it's his relative this is named after so maybe he knows better than I do.
Wonder if that was a living relative and if he mangled her name at family events and then laughed at other people calling her the right thing?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 18:09:03 GMT -5
What was worse is when asked his name, people would assume he just mispronounced his name & would call him Steven. Because not knowing how to pronounce your own name is totally a thing. OMG, I've had people try to tell ME how to say MY name correctly all my life. Its pronounced exactly how its spelled and the idiots that try to correct me ALWAYS either change an "R" to a "B", add another random letter (always the same leter in the same place), or both. I want to ask them "can you READ?" Because they see letters that aren't there. Its really irritating when they're persistant.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 18:12:00 GMT -5
When I first moved to France (30 years ago) I was in a shop looking for a shirt for my ex. The saleswoman came up to me and asked if she could help. I said yes please. I'm looking for a shirt for my husband but I don't know the size of his ass. (Obviously I didn't realize that's what I was saying!)
She looked shocked, inhaled loudly, turned her back on me and walked away.
I said to my ex MIL, I tried to buy S a shirt, but I said something wrong, but I don't know what. She totally burst out laughing and tried to give me a lesson:
- Queue (pronounced keuh) = tail (or line, but it's also slang for pen*s) - cul (not sure how to make it pronouncable in English because that sound doesn't even exist in English, it's halfway between COO and KEW) = ass (that's what I said to the saleswoman) - cou (coo) = neck (which is what I should have said).
While my ex MIL was explaining this to me, I said, stop messing with me. You are repeated the EXACT SAME THREE WORDS, and PRETENDING they mean different things!
At the time, I literally couldn't even HEAR the differences between those 3 words, let alone pronounce them differently.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 18:24:32 GMT -5
Dannylion you have me totally intrigued! What did you do? Where did you work? (If I'm not being rude of course, please feel free to ignore my questions if you'd prefer to.)
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Oct 16, 2014 18:24:38 GMT -5
rit = rhymes with it, zit, pit. Soft "i" Actually, I believe that is an alternate pronunciation and that de Try tus is the preferred pronunciation (both Brit and American).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 18:27:06 GMT -5
I asked DH (a Brit) and he did indeed say that both exist in the UK, but I have never heard that pronunciation (TRY) in the US.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 18:28:12 GMT -5
It's also (probably) regional.
Did you see the NYT study (6 mo ago?) on regional language differences? They pegged me EXACTLY where I grew up.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Oct 16, 2014 18:28:51 GMT -5
Dannylion you have me totally intrigued! What did you do? Where did you work? (If I'm not being rude of course, please feel free to ignore my questions if you'd prefer to.) I worked for the government. I mostly translated scientific and technical material from Russian, Chinese, and French into English. I also taught Russian translation courses, an introductory Chinese course, and two linguistics courses. I loved my job.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Oct 16, 2014 18:29:17 GMT -5
Yes, and the insight is greatly appreciated, but you also have to admit that language is fluid, and whatever the origin, "walla," "nucular" and "brushetta" are now part of American vernacular. Only among those who prefer the deliberate perpetuation of ignorance to he exertion of the teeny bit of effort it might take to retain the beauty of the original form. Curious, how, or at what point, you distinguish between alternate pronunciation and "deliberate ignorance"? Isn't this how new dialects and languages are formed?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 18:32:05 GMT -5
Thank you for answering Dannylion. That must have been amazing!
ETA: You know so many very different languages!
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Oct 16, 2014 18:33:13 GMT -5
It's also (probably) regional. Did you see the NYT study (6 mo ago?) on regional language differences? They pegged me EXACTLY where I grew up. Ah, good point. It very well could be a regional thing.
I haven't seen any of the more recent studies on regional English, but I do recall seeing a fairly extensive study published some time ago (no recollection of who did it) that was really interesting.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Oct 16, 2014 18:33:14 GMT -5
AHAHAHA. I love that I'm not the only person who struggled with that particular word! Interesting. I mispronounced it in conversation two weeks ago as well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 18:36:29 GMT -5
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Oct 16, 2014 18:39:38 GMT -5
Only among those who prefer the deliberate perpetuation of ignorance to he exertion of the teeny bit of effort it might take to retain the beauty of the original form. Curious, how, or at what point, you distinguish between alternate pronunciation and "deliberate ignorance"? Isn't this how new dialects and languages are formed?
And then there is deliberate misunderstanding in a quest to start an argument.
I have the impression that the purpose of the question was to fuel an argument, not to spark a discussion of "new dialects and languages." Not interested enough to take the bait. Sorry.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Oct 16, 2014 18:40:53 GMT -5
Thanks! I'll bookmark that for later.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 18:41:22 GMT -5
I don't like English its a pain in the neck.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 18:49:02 GMT -5
Tiki, I love English, but I agree, it can be a pain in the neck! I think all foreign languages can be a pain to learn, or master.
Our phrasal verbs can do anybody in, for sure LOL.
I'm guessing you speak Arabic. That's difficult for English speakers, because it's a completely different alphabet.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Oct 16, 2014 18:54:29 GMT -5
Curious, how, or at what point, you distinguish between alternate pronunciation and "deliberate ignorance"? Isn't this how new dialects and languages are formed?
And then there is deliberate misunderstanding in a quest to start an argument.
I have the impression that the purpose of the question was to fuel an argument, not to spark a discussion of "new dialects and languages." Not interested enough to take the bait. Sorry.
Sorry you interpreted it this way. Believe it or not, I actually am interested in languages. I studied Italian and Armenian in college, and absolutely loved the one linguistics course I took. I don't typically engage in, or instigate internet squabbles, so if that is where this would go, and you don't wish to discuss it, that is fine.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Oct 16, 2014 19:01:15 GMT -5
What was worse is when asked his name, people would assume he just mispronounced his name & would call him Steven. Because not knowing how to pronounce your own name is totally a thing. Well.... Americans can be pretty dumb.
Years ago I was assigned to a client who named parts of their family business after relatives, so these were family names. One of the branches was named "Genevieve". When I pronounced it the correct way in French (probably not spelling the phonetics correctly, but I'll do my best. The first "g" is a soft "j", not like the hard j in front of James, more like a zj sound) zj ohn vee ev the client looked at me like I had two heads and said no, it's "jen uh veev"
He then acted like I was somewhat retarded.
This is DD1's name, and we will use both pronunciations, depending on our moods. She had a classmate who was Native American, and he would spell her name the way it would be in his tribe's written language (I think that's the explanation, not quite sure now), largely phonetic. It started out : Dzjon___ . I don't remember all the bits, but she has used it as a screen name. Of course, English-speakers mangle our French last name. They always want to reverse the "gn". Doesn't help that MIL & FIL dropped the French pronunciation and tried to pronounce it following English language rules. DH & I have returned to using the French pronunciation.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Oct 17, 2014 7:45:26 GMT -5
Yes, and the insight is greatly appreciated, but you also have to admit that language is fluid, and whatever the origin, "walla," "nucular" and "brushetta" are now part of American vernacular. Only among those who prefer the deliberate perpetuation of ignorance to he exertion of the teeny bit of effort it might take to retain the beauty of the original form.
Whew, I almost ran out of breath reading that sentence. I have trouble with the correct pronunciation of ménage à trois.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 17, 2014 8:21:09 GMT -5
I have trouble with the act of menage a trois.
I was called a prude once by a friend for that. Was it a friend with benefits?
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 17, 2014 8:42:37 GMT -5
Was it a friend with benefits? LOL! No, though I suppose it would have been. It was his girlfriend.
BTW I just, um, bit you.
Ouch! So you are a bit more adventurous than suspected.
Sounds like this friend didn't know you very well. I've never met you, but I know: You actually enjoy using the post office - going in to the location and interacting with the postal employees. You regularly step foot inside the bank lobby to do business with a human teller, with whom you presumably enjoy interacting. You carry large amounts of cash. You golf.
These things scream "conservative" guy with old-fashioned tendencies. Not exactly someone who you'd invite to the orgy. But then again, what do I know? I wouldn't have guessed you'd be a biter...
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Oct 17, 2014 9:21:28 GMT -5
Where does it start to be funny and why subject is funny? Pls xplain. Thanks
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Oct 17, 2014 9:55:10 GMT -5
I asked DH (a Brit) and he did indeed say that both exist in the UK, but I have never heard that pronunciation (TRY) in the US. It's the one I use, if it makes you feel any better I've never even heard the other one and am still trying to wrap my brain around it.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Oct 17, 2014 10:31:32 GMT -5
What was worse is when asked his name, people would assume he just mispronounced his name & would call him Steven. Because not knowing how to pronounce your own name is totally a thing. Well.... Americans can be pretty dumb.
Years ago I was assigned to a client who named parts of their family business after relatives, so these were family names. One of the branches was named "Genevieve". When I pronounced it the correct way in French (probably not spelling the phonetics correctly, but I'll do my best. The first "g" is a soft "j", not like the hard j in front of James, more like a zj sound) zj ohn vee ev the client looked at me like I had two heads and said no, it's "jen uh veev"
He then acted like I was somewhat retarded.
I have no idea what that "zj ohn vee ev" sounds like. The only Genevieve I know of is a designer on HGTV. It sounds to me like she calls herself jen uh veev . Regardless, wouldn't the correct pronunciation of a person's name be whatever that person said it was? (Or the person's parent, if the person is a child).
I take back my first sentence - I have heard that name, but I didn't know it was spelled Genevieve. (To me the first part sounds more the French Jean (as in Jean Luc Picard).
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 17, 2014 10:45:13 GMT -5
I have no idea what that "zj ohn vee ev" sounds like. The only Genevieve I know of is a designer on HGTV. It sounds to me like she calls herself jen uh veev . Regardless, wouldn't the correct pronunciation of a person's name be whatever that person said it was? (Or the person's parent, if the person is a child).
Yes, the correct pronunciation of a person's name is absolutely whatever that person says it is.
I'm just pointing out the American tendency to be kind of narcissistic and frankly a bit ignorant about these things. IMHO it's pretty lame bordering on obnoxious to take a name that actually has a standard pronunciation and act like someone is crazy for using that standard pronunciation and not the crazy hick sound you've chosen at random.
"I have no idea why you're calling me Waffle like my name sounds like 'awful.' It's pronounced 'waff- lay' you heathen!"
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Oct 17, 2014 10:51:29 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever heard the word "detritus" used in conversation, just in books. So now my passive language brain and my active language brain are fencing about it. And the passive vs active language reminds me of another Terry Pratchett character - Tiffany Aching (who lived on a sheep farm and read the dictionary for fun. So she has a HUGE passive vocabulary and no idea how to pronounce a lot of words), which is also on my "need to re-read except I can't find my hardcover copies and am contemplating shelling out $30 for the Kindle set of all 4 books.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Oct 17, 2014 10:52:22 GMT -5
Actually, it's just Waff - the "le" is silent. (just kidding). Seriously, I want a new screen name now. I'm going to keep hearing waff-lay in my head.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 17, 2014 10:55:17 GMT -5
Waffle, that's OK, you've been talking to mi-LAY'.
despite my simplistic screen name, my real name is a bit "off" and nobody ever spells or pronounces it right on the first try.
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