LOL: Koi Pond!!!

[CarolinaKat]

Oct 9, 2014 9:45:27 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Oct 9, 2014 9:39:23 GMT -5 Pants said:

Your dog has a godmother?

Yes... And a godfather too

He gets gift from them, his grandparents, aunts/uncles just like any other kid.

Yes my dog is spoiled!

My cats have aunts/uncles and grandparents too

[Bonny]

Oct 9, 2014 5:49:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

Ponds and kids. What a great idea!!! 

MIL was shocked when I told her that putting in "Waterworld" effectively eliminated most of the target market for her 5 bedroom 3000 sq.ft. house.

She's redone the yard at least three times due to plumbing problems. She's spent well over $200k.

Maintenance is an on-going issue. She's never really been able to take care of it herself, has fallen in a couple times including one time for several hours. Trying to balance the fish needs and controlling the algae is a chronic problem.

Any smart buyer will either run, run, run away or get to a big discount to fill in the thing!

[CarolinaKat]

Oct 10, 2014 9:31:03 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Oct 9, 2014 5:49:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

Ponds and kids. What a great idea!!! 

MIL was shocked when I told her that putting in "Waterworld" effectively eliminated most of the target market for her 5 bedroom 3000 sq.ft. house.

She's redone the yard at least three times due to plumbing problems. She's spent well over $200k.

Maintenance is an on-going issue. She's never really been able to take care of it herself, has fallen in a couple times including one time for several hours. Trying to balance the fish needs and controlling the algae is a chronic problem.

Any smart buyer will either run, run, run away or get to a big discount to fill in the thing!

Tell me more!

[Bonny]

Oct 10, 2014 9:37:27 GMT -5 CarolinaKat said:

Oct 10, 2014 9:31:03 GMT -5 Bonny said:

MIL was shocked when I told her that putting in "Waterworld" effectively eliminated most of the target market for her 5 bedroom 3000 sq.ft. house.

She's redone the yard at least three times due to plumbing problems. She's spent well over $200k.

Maintenance is an on-going issue. She's never really been able to take care of it herself, has fallen in a couple times including one time for several hours. Trying to balance the fish needs and controlling the algae is a chronic problem.

Any smart buyer will either run, run, run away or get to a big discount to fill in the thing!

Tell me more!

Whadda want to know?

BTW Her oldest dog fell in the pond the day before yesterday. Too old and fat to get himself out so DH had to rescue him. I can imagine how fun that would have been in the winter. And MIL wouldn't be able to do it herself. She'd probably be calling 911!

[CarolinaKat]

Oct 10, 2014 9:54:10 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Oct 10, 2014 9:37:27 GMT -5 CarolinaKat said:

Tell me more!

Whadda want to know?

I want the scope and hilarity of 'waterworld' explained!!!

[Bonny]

Oct 10, 2014 9:56:37 GMT -5 CarolinaKat said:

Oct 10, 2014 9:54:10 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Whadda want to know?

I want the scope and hilarity of 'waterworld' explained!!!

I don't have pictures but @anne81 has been to the house and can back me on it's umm "most enhanced" version.

Version 1 was some simple terracing and landscaping with a small pond. But she used unlicensed folks and within a few months was having insane water bills because of the numerous leaks.

Therefore, version two was ripping everything out building more terraces with the landscaping blocks, redoing the irrigation and the beginnings of the volcano waterfall. She also put in a second pond. IIRC she ran afoul of the HOA in one these iterations because she failed to get approval from the landscaping committee. Project was delayed, some changes made, more pavers put in. I remember one Christmas poor DH careful balancing himself walking the slippery and icy stone bridge carrying a 10' Christmas tree into her living room. I thought for sure he was going to fall in. He bitched and moaned to no end about how stupid the design was. Then she slipped and fell at least twice with trips via the ambulance to the emergency room.

That led to design #3 where the bridge was removed, one pond was filled in the other pond enlarged and more koi added. The volcano waterfall installed. This waterfall um "structure" is about 10' high and over 20' wide. She has now fallen at least three times into the larger pond, one time she was partially submerged for several hours until her cries for help were heard by some passer byers. There is an 8' fence and gate screening this um "artwork" from the street so she was lucky someone heard her at all.

Now I understand that larger pond has been reduced. But yesterday DH told me her oldest dog fell into the pond and couldn't get himself out. DH had to wade into the pond and pull him out. No way could my nearly 80 year old MIL pull out a 45 lb dog out of that pond.

Stay tuned for the next installment!

ETA: And who killed me?! 'Fess up now!

[CarolinaKat]

Oct 10, 2014 10:31:40 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Oct 10, 2014 9:56:37 GMT -5 CarolinaKat said:

I want the scope and hilarity of 'waterworld' explained!!!

I don't have pictures but @anne81 has been to the house and can back me on it's umm "most enhanced" version.

Version 1 was some simple terracing and landscaping with a small pond. But she used unlicensed folks and within a few months was having insane water bills because of the numerous leaks.

Therefore, version two was ripping everything out building more terraces with the landscaping blocks, redoing the irrigation and the beginnings of the volcano waterfall. She also put in a second pond. IIRC she ran afoul of the HOA in one these iterations because she failed to get approval from the landscaping committee. Project was delayed, some changes made, more pavers put in. I remember one Christmas poor DH careful balancing himself walking the slippery and icy stone bridge carrying a 10' Christmas tree into her living room. I thought for sure he was going to fall in. He bitched and moaned to no end about how stupid the design was. Then she slipped and fell at least twice with trips via the ambulance to the emergency room.

That led to design #3 where the bridge was removed, one pond was filled in the other pond enlarged and more koi added. The volcano waterfall installed. This waterfall um "structure" is about 10' high and over 20' wide. She has now fallen at least three times into the larger pond, one time she was partially submerged for several hours until her cries for help were heard by some passer byers. There is an 8' fence and gate screening this um "artwork" from the street so she was lucky someone heard her at all.

Now I understand that larger pond has been reduced. But yesterday DH told me her oldest dog fell into the pond and couldn't get himself out. DH had to wade into the pond and pull him out. No way could my nearly 80 year old MIL pull out a 45 lb dog out of that pond.

Stay tuned for the next installment!

ETA: And who killed me?! 'Fess up now!

  Words Fail me

[myrrh]

WOW Bonny. 

I have seen a few synthetically lined ponds with orange plastic net fencing or other types of fencing down one side of the pond so that animals can theoretically swim to the fencing and climb out of the pond (these ponds are pretty steep and plastic liners don't have much traction, so without it the animals couldn't escape). Would she consider this?

Nevermind, it's your MIL, it would never happen. 

[Deleted]

We have a little goldfish pond and really like it.

No Koi because occasionally the raccoons will scoop out a fish and the goldfish are cheap.

It isn't deep enough for the fish to stay in it all winter so they go in an aquarium in the basement.

I love the bubbling water sound and can hear it in the bedroom at night.

We had two frogs find it this summer and like to hear them talking to each other at night also.

Also a plant nut here and no other place to grow water lilies.

They can be as elaborate and expensive or as simple and inexpensive as you want to make them.

[Pants]

Oct 10, 2014 14:36:39 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

We have a little goldfish pond and really like it.

No Koi because occasionally the raccoons will scoop out a fish and the goldfish are cheap.

It isn't deep enough for the fish to stay in it all winter so they go in an aquarium in the basement.

I love the bubbling water sound and can hear it in the bedroom at night.

We had two frogs find it this summer and like to hear them talking to each other at night also.

Also a plant nut here and no other place to grow water lilies.

They can be as elaborate and expensive or as simple and inexpensive as you want to make them.

This is Carl's wife. It will be very expensive.

[Angel!]

No way in hell I would get a pond until my youngest was ~6 years old.  Just too much danger & you can't ever have your kids playing unsupervised.  But, then pools scare me too (as far as owning one with kids), so maybe it is just me.

Bonny - how does one fall in & get stuck for several hours?  And why would you not think the whole thing is a death trap & get rid of it after that happened?

[Bonny]

Oct 10, 2014 16:22:26 GMT -5 Angel! said:

No way in hell I would get a pond until my youngest was ~6 years old.  Just too much danger & you can't ever have your kids playing unsupervised.  But, then pools scare me too (as far as owning one with kids), so maybe it is just me.

Bonny - how does one fall in & get stuck for several hours?  And why would you not think the whole thing is a death trap & get rid of it after that happened?

The pond was about 3.5' deep and my nearly 80 year old MIL is down under 5'. Too slippery due to algae for her to crawl out and she's not very strong. Can you imagine if it had been in the freezing temps? I would have had a MIL cube!

Yes, it's been an ENORMOUS source of frustration for us. DH has stated that in the latest version she's reduced the size of the pond but we know that even that is still a problem. If a dog falls in again I can easily see her winding up in the pond too trying to help him out.  MIL and dog cubes!

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2014 15:51:15 GMT -5 Pants said:

Oct 10, 2014 14:36:39 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

We have a little goldfish pond and really like it.

No Koi because occasionally the raccoons will scoop out a fish and the goldfish are cheap.

It isn't deep enough for the fish to stay in it all winter so they go in an aquarium in the basement.

I love the bubbling water sound and can hear it in the bedroom at night.

We had two frogs find it this summer and like to hear them talking to each other at night also.

Also a plant nut here and no other place to grow water lilies.

They can be as elaborate and expensive or as simple and inexpensive as you want to make them.

This is Carl's wife. It will be very expensive.

  ahh, that's right.

[Opti]

Oct 10, 2014 14:36:39 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

We have a little goldfish pond and really like it.

No Koi because occasionally the raccoons will scoop out a fish and the goldfish are cheap.

It isn't deep enough for the fish to stay in it all winter so they go in an aquarium in the basement.

I love the bubbling water sound and can hear it in the bedroom at night.

We had two frogs find it this summer and like to hear them talking to each other at night also.

Also a plant nut here and no other place to grow water lilies.

They can be as elaborate and expensive or as simple and inexpensive as you want to make them.

Sounds like Bonny's MIL has more issues than just

wanting some outdoor fish. Terracing and volcanoes?

Personally I wouldn't put it somewhere near where people have

to walk. Ideally I think backyard, where it can either be

enjoyed or ignored. And if you are old or prone to falling

in, you could have designed it to be easy to get out of.

At least one of the library books on Koi has a very

interesting section on designing outdoor Koi ponds.

Learned a bit and would really do some study if I

get a chance to put one in or buy a house that has one.

[Deleted]

DH built a small pond 4 years ago. It definitely attracts unwelcome wildlife: we get a lot of cats trying to eat the fish (we have goldfish, not koi). We don't have a dog but we don't love the stray cats because we have a pet bunny who is often outside in the garden. We have even had occasional herons, and once, a duck! 

Our youngest was 12 when he and DH built it. I was initially against it, for safety reasons. Now I'm glad they did it, because it was their last major project before DH's accident, he wouldn't be able to do it now. 

But, when the cousins come from the UK, or we have friends with small kids over, we all watch them like hawks. And DH purposely built it NOT very deep, it's only about 2-2.5 feet deep. 

My boss lives in the north of France, not in the Paris area, so RE is much cheaper and the houses have a lot of land. One day her neighbor rang her doorbell crying, she couldn't find her son. My boss (English) said, we need to go to the pond. Her neighbor blew her off and said no there's no way he could have walked to the pond, it's way too far for him, I need your help inside the house. They looked all over, couldn't find him. My boss said, I'm going to the pond. Her neighbor said, you're wasting your time. My boss went anyway, and found him. It was too late. My boss was in terrible shape for many months (saying she should have ignored the mom and just gone to the pond, but apparently, it would have been too late anyway). I can't even begin to imagine what that poor mother went (and is surely still going) through.  

Ponds and small kids DO NOT MIX. One of the advantages of having a garden is it can give you a breather while your kid plays outside. DO NOT put in a pond, at least not for many, many years. 

[milee]

Oct 10, 2014 16:38:33 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Oct 10, 2014 16:22:26 GMT -5 Angel! said:

No way in hell I would get a pond until my youngest was ~6 years old.  Just too much danger & you can't ever have your kids playing unsupervised.  But, then pools scare me too (as far as owning one with kids), so maybe it is just me.

Bonny - how does one fall in & get stuck for several hours?  And why would you not think the whole thing is a death trap & get rid of it after that happened?

The pond was about 3.5' deep and my nearly 80 year old MIL is down under 5'. Too slippery due to algae for her to crawl out and she's not very strong. Can you imagine if it had been in the freezing temps? I would have had a MIL cube!

Yes, it's been an ENORMOUS source of frustration for us. DH has stated that in the latest version she's reduced the size of the pond but we know that even that is still a problem. If a dog falls in again I can easily see her winding up in the pond too trying to help him out. 

I'd encourage her to build it larger. Sounds like the solution to many of your problems all at once.

[Opti]

Oct 10, 2014 18:22:13 GMT -5 milee said:

Oct 10, 2014 16:38:33 GMT -5 Bonny said:

The pond was about 3.5' deep and my nearly 80 year old MIL is down under 5'. Too slippery due to algae for her to crawl out and she's not very strong. Can you imagine if it had been in the freezing temps? I would have had a MIL cube!

Yes, it's been an ENORMOUS source of frustration for us. DH has stated that in the latest version she's reduced the size of the pond but we know that even that is still a problem. If a dog falls in again I can easily see her winding up in the pond too trying to help him out. 

I'd encourage her to build it larger. Sounds like the solution to many of your problems all at once.

I think you meant deeper. Like 6', so the fish can be

there year 'round.

[Opti]

Small unsupervised kids and any significant water is

bad. Pools, fish ponds, creeks, and even bathtubs.

[Opti]

Oct 10, 2014 18:17:02 GMT -5 @debthaven2 said:

DH built a small pond 4 years ago. It definitely attracts unwelcome wildlife: we get a lot of cats trying to eat the fish (we have goldfish, not koi). We don't have a dog but we don't love the stray cats because we have a pet bunny who is often outside in the garden. We have even had occasional herons, and once, a duck! 

Our youngest was 12 when he and DH built it. I was initially against it, for safety reasons. Now I'm glad they did it, because it was their last major project before DH's accident, he wouldn't be able to do it now. 

But, when the cousins come from the UK, or we have friends with small kids over, we all watch them like hawks. And DH purposely built it NOT very deep, it's only about 2-2.5 feet deep. 

My boss lives in the north of France, not in the Paris area, so RE is much cheaper and the houses have a lot of land. One day her neighbor rang her doorbell crying, she couldn't find her son. My boss (English) said, we need to go to the pond. Her neighbor blew her off and said no there's no way he could have walked to the pond, it's way too far for him, I need your help inside the house. They looked all over, couldn't find him. My boss said, I'm going to the pond. Her neighbor said, you're wasting your time. My boss went anyway, and found him. It was too late. My boss was in terrible shape for many months (saying she should have ignored the mom and just gone to the pond, but apparently, it would have been too late anyway). I can't even begin to imagine what that poor mother went (and is surely still going) through.  

Ponds and small kids DO NOT MIX. One of the advantages of having a garden is it can give you a breather while your kid plays outside. DO NOT put in a pond, at least not for many, many years. 

Sorry for your boss, but the fault *mostly IMO* lies with the neighbor

for being stupid. First for letting the child getting so far out of

sight, and two - being unwilling to check the worst possibilities

first and then move on to safer ones. Your boss made an

honest mistake - believing the neighbor knew her child

better than the bosses' gut worry.

[Deleted]

I agree, but her neighbor still lost a small child, and it was extremely traumatic for my boss (who is a she, not a he, by the way), but certainly nowhere nearly as traumatic as it was for the mom. Yes, she made a lot of wrong decisions that day, I'm sure she's played them over in her mind for most if not all of her waking hours for the past 18 months, and she'll probably continue to do so till she dies. 

But I'm not sure what the point of your post / playing the "blame game" is.

I'm just trying to encourage Carl NOT to build any pond on his land, for many, many years. 

[Deleted]

A friend and I bought a 2-family house in 1979. We were enchanted with the little pond in the back yard. It was cement-lined, about 3' in diameter, maybe 10" at its deepest, so not a major kid hazard although we didn't 't have any.

We happily bought goldfish. Within 2 days they were gone. We bought more. Disappeared without a trace. We realized all we were doing was feeding the local raccoons. My friend even built a frame with a screen to put over it, then added nails sticking out if it. Didn't bother the raccoons. Finally we decided the raccoons didn't need us to keep buying their food at the pet store and gave up.

[taz157]

Oct 10, 2014 18:37:20 GMT -5 @debthaven2 said:

I agree, but her neighbor still lost a small child, and it was extremely traumatic for my boss (who is a she, not a he, by the way), but certainly nowhere nearly as traumatic as it was for the mom. Yes, she made a lot of wrong decisions that day, I'm sure she's played them over in her mind for most if not all of her waking hours for the past 18 months, and she'll probably continue to do so till she dies. 

But I'm not sure what the point of your post / playing the "blame game" is.

I'm just trying to encourage Carl NOT to build any pond on his land, for many, many years. 

She likes to play the blame game and make it the victim's fault. She did that with my brother when he was outside his OWN house having the last smoke for the night and got held up at gunpoint.

[Opti]

Oct 10, 2014 18:37:20 GMT -5 @debthaven2 said:

I agree, but her neighbor still lost a small child, and it was extremely traumatic for my boss (who is a she, not a he, by the way), but certainly nowhere nearly as traumatic as it was for the mom. Yes, she made a lot of wrong decisions that day, I'm sure she's played them over in her mind for most if not all of her waking hours for the past 18 months, and she'll probably continue to do so till she dies. 

But I'm not sure what the point of your post / playing the "blame game" is.

I'm just trying to encourage Carl NOT to build any pond on his land, for many, many years. 

You are playing the blame game/story game to scare Carl into

not putting a fish pond on his land.

My point is that it is not the pond, per se, that is to blame.

There have been ponds all over the US the entire time I've been alive.

Not having one isn't going to guarantee no tragedies happen to small

children.

I have no idea what the neighbor does feel and did feel. I wasn't there.

My original rest of that post was going to suggest that perhaps the neighbor

also mistakenly blamed your boss instead of herself or even accepting

sometimes things don't work out the way we would like. (Some people

would blame everyone but themselves for the child's death others: themselves.

Hard to know which one she was without an interview IMO.)

As a firm believer in reincarnation, I also believe some people's life paths

definitely include short lives for whatever reason. You can not ever guarantee

someone's safety simply by not having a fish pond, pool, or bathtub.

(Every year some kids will drown in a tub. Some in as little as 4" of water.)

That was my point. And I'll correct the bosses' gender pronoun now.

[Opti]

Oct 10, 2014 22:05:29 GMT -5 taz157 said:

Oct 10, 2014 18:37:20 GMT -5 @debthaven2 said:

I agree, but her neighbor still lost a small child, and it was extremely traumatic for my boss (who is a she, not a he, by the way), but certainly nowhere nearly as traumatic as it was for the mom. Yes, she made a lot of wrong decisions that day, I'm sure she's played them over in her mind for most if not all of her waking hours for the past 18 months, and she'll probably continue to do so till she dies. 

But I'm not sure what the point of your post / playing the "blame game" is.

I'm just trying to encourage Carl NOT to build any pond on his land, for many, many years. 

She likes to play the blame game and make it the victim's fault. She did that with my brother when he was outside his OWN house having the last smoke for the night and got held up at gunpoint.

I come from a metaphysics bent, so I see most things different than people

do on this board or those who don't follow intention work.

Per Abraham Hicks and also people like Joel Osteen, popular Christian preacher,

if you aren't a match to the bad stuff - it doesn't happen. We attract experiences

into our lives. Some times it is obvious. Most people wouldn't be surprised to be

held up at gunpoint if they lived in bad areas of Newark, Detroit or East LA even if

it was their backyard.

I didn't say he was 100% of fault. (Go find the post, if you doesn't believe me.)

But I did say, if he hadn't been out there oblivious to his surroundings it may

have unfolded differently. I think I shared I had been attacked in my own backyard

growing up more than once.

The 'victim', in this case the neighbor, is likely most at fault in my opinion.

The kid wandered away unsupervised and drowned. Without knowing

fully the circumstances and the people involved - who is what percent at

fault? IDK. Just like your brother. He wasn't zero percent at fault *or* 100 percent

fault from my metaphysicians perspective. Somewhere in between. Just because

the gun holder is mostly at fault does not mean he gets a free pass for not being

aware of his surroundings.

*I* won't give the bulk of the blame to the fish pond for simply existing.

If someone is going to die or is meant to die, nothing will stop it.

Even recently, a noted security expert acknowledged there is no way

to create a door that is 100% secure and foolproof. (To whit, the recent

WH break in and how far the guy got inside!)

[Opti]

In addition, some "bad" experiences are there to help us grow or

might be the pivot for this life. The founders of MADD only did what

they did because of personal tragedy.

If nothing "Bad" happens ever, there is nothing to learn.

And like life, not everyone "learns" the same lesson even experiencing the

same thing. What you get out of the experience is going to be determined

by what you believe.

Plus it depends what you are measuring.

Legally, Taz's brother was not at fault. Zero percent to him, 100% to gun wielder.

Not a lawyer, so I tend to think in my daily metaphysical terms. It is my

life philosophy and therefore in any situation I am in, I always have some

percentage of responsibility simply because I am present. There is no zero.

It can be 100%, but if I walk into a fish pond and drown, get hit while in the

parking lot, or encounter someone with a gun - my responsibility for the

situation is at least positive even if it is as small as 1 to 5%.

Again, my belief.

I am posting based on my metaphysical & spiritual sense of cause.

What a legal case would determine, would be different. In that case,

there can be legal liability for having a fish pond.

[Angel!]

Oct 10, 2014 22:50:32 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 10, 2014 18:37:20 GMT -5 @debthaven2 said:

I agree, but her neighbor still lost a small child, and it was extremely traumatic for my boss (who is a she, not a he, by the way), but certainly nowhere nearly as traumatic as it was for the mom. Yes, she made a lot of wrong decisions that day, I'm sure she's played them over in her mind for most if not all of her waking hours for the past 18 months, and she'll probably continue to do so till she dies. 

But I'm not sure what the point of your post / playing the "blame game" is.

I'm just trying to encourage Carl NOT to build any pond on his land, for many, many years. 

You are playing the blame game/story game to scare Carl into

not putting a fish pond on his land.

My point is that it is not the pond, per se, that is to blame.

There have been ponds all over the US the entire time I've been alive.

Not having one isn't going to guarantee no tragedies happen to small

children.

This is kind of stupid. I'm not opting to not get a pond so that nothing bad will ever happen to my kids.

I'm opting to not get a pond because then I can 100% guarantee no kid will drown in back yard. I can sure as hell prevent that tragedy.

I can't recall if you are a parent, but kids can disappear in a heartbeat even to the best parent. And tragedy can happen in minutes. It doesn't help that some kids are basically runners.

I don't have the time or energy to supervise a child if there is a pond in my yard. I like a yard because the kids can play somewhat unsupervised, a pond would totally take that away.

[Opti]

Oct 11, 2014 9:58:17 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Oct 10, 2014 22:50:32 GMT -5 Opti said:

You are playing the blame game/story game to scare Carl into

not putting a fish pond on his land.

My point is that it is not the pond, per se, that is to blame.

There have been ponds all over the US the entire time I've been alive.

Not having one isn't going to guarantee no tragedies happen to small

children.

This is kind of stupid. I'm not opting to not get a pond so that nothing bad will ever happen to my kids.

I'm opting to not get a pond because then I can 100% guarantee no kid will drown in back yard. I can sure as hell prevent that tragedy.

I can't recall if you are a parent, but kids can disappear in a heartbeat even to the best parent. And tragedy can happen in minutes. It doesn't help that some kids are basically runners.

I don't have the time or energy to supervise a child if there is a pond in my yard. I like a yard because the kids can play somewhat unsupervised, a pond would totally take that away.

I'm not a parent and yes you can prevent a kid from drowning on your property

if you don't have anything they can drown in. As often as it does occur, what

are the odds really though across all owners of pools, ponds, bathtubs? 5%?

Less?

I'm not as security conscious as some because I believe intention determines

things far more than owning the best security system or having or not having

a pond. Someone in my book club said something to the effect that 'all us spiritual

types drive small cars because we feel we are safe and all the regular scared people

drive really big SUVs because they are convinced they are not(safe).' There is

truth to that. The biggest SUVs often have the smallest women hopping out of them(CNJ).

I do things within my limits and preferences. Doesn't hurt me any for you

to do the same(your preferences and limits). Just pointing out that it may be an unreasonable fear that exists in part due to your bosses' experience.

[Opti]

but kids can disappear in a heartbeat even to the best parent. And tragedy can happen in minutes. It doesn't help that some kids are basically runners.

Correct. It helps my life philosophy says, if they do escape you and they

do die or get seriously injured odds are extremely high it was meant to be.

(I may delete this later as it is not a mindset shared by most and if you

really believe you have only one chance of life on this planet that point of view

makes most see red instead of looking objectively at that POV and what that

might mean.)

[Angel!]

Oct 11, 2014 10:07:14 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 11, 2014 9:58:17 GMT -5 Angel! said:

This is kind of stupid. I'm not opting to not get a pond so that nothing bad will ever happen to my kids.

I'm opting to not get a pond because then I can 100% guarantee no kid will drown in back yard. I can sure as hell prevent that tragedy.

I can't recall if you are a parent, but kids can disappear in a heartbeat even to the best parent. And tragedy can happen in minutes. It doesn't help that some kids are basically runners.

I don't have the time or energy to supervise a child if there is a pond in my yard. I like a yard because the kids can play somewhat unsupervised, a pond would totally take that away.

I'm not a parent and yes you can prevent a kid from drowning on your property

if you don't have anything they can drown in. As often as it does occur, what

are the odds really though across all owners of pools, ponds, bathtubs? 5%?

Less?

I'm not as security conscious as some because I believe intention determines

things far more than owning the best security system or having or not having

a pond. Someone in my book club said something to the effect that 'all us spiritual

types drive small cars because we feel we are safe and all the regular scared people

drive really big SUVs because they are convinced they are not(safe).' There is

truth to that. The biggest SUVs often have the smallest women hopping out of them(CNJ).

I do things within my limits and preferences. Doesn't hurt me any for you

to do the same(your preferences and limits). Just pointing out that it may be an unreasonable fear that exists in part due to your bosses' experience.

I wouldn't even compare a bathtub to a pond. Both can cause the same tragedy, but I don't leave my bathtub filled when not in use. Do you? So 99% of the time my kids can go into the bathroom unsupervised with no risk of drowning. A pond would always be a risk. My kids could never go out alone, I would need alarms on the doors, etc.

Yeah, odds are no one would drown, but I'm not risking it. For me a pond wouldn't be worth the risk, just like owning a gun or living on a busy street. I can avoid potential tragedies just by not setting myself up for them.

I'm glad you are spiritual and think the world protects you. I don't buy that and think life happens no matter your intentions.

And I'm not the one with the boss in the story. I'm just a parent with young kids that knows I am not perfect and mistakes happen. Kids get out of sight, doors get left open. I am not arrogant enough to think that somehow I am that much better than the parents who did have a child drown.

[Angel!]

Oct 11, 2014 10:12:40 GMT -5 Opti said:

but kids can disappear in a heartbeat even to the best parent. And tragedy can happen in minutes. It doesn't help that some kids are basically runners.

Correct. It helps my life philosophy says, if they do escape you and they

do die or get seriously injured odds are extremely high it was meant to be.

(I may delete this later as it is not a mindset shared by most and if you

really believe you have only one chance of life on this planet that point of view

makes most see red instead of looking objectively at that POV and what that

might mean.)

It is easy to say when you don't have kids. As a parent, fuck that view. I suggest you never say it was meant to be to a parent who lost a small child unless you want a resulting punch.

Would you hand a kid a loaded gun? If they died you could just say it was meant to be. To me, this is no different than your view on other potentially preventable tragedies.