|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 3, 2011 11:55:21 GMT -5
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The court could have done a better job on this one , even though it was almost a unanimous decision, to me all it means is that all but one of the justices got it wrong."Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=4173&page=2#ixzz1FYYLBaSpNot only that but these Religious Protesters have said they will increase their protests at all military funerals...so one would hope the local towns will prevent these hate mongers from being too much of a disruption to the families of our military ...
|
|
|
Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 3, 2011 11:59:19 GMT -5
Not only that but these Religious Protesters have said they will increase their protests at all military funerals...so one would hope the local towns will prevent these hate mongers from being too much of a disruption to the families of our military
I heard they planned to stage protests at the young girl victim from the Arizona shooting that took place a while back. I heard this last evening on the radio, and googled it this morning and could not really find anything definitive. Seems like they want to trade a protest for a media interview. Anyone hear anything on this?
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 3, 2011 12:06:57 GMT -5
Not only that but these Religious Protesters have said they will increase their protests at all military funerals...so one would hope the local towns will prevent these hate mongers from being too much of a disruption to the families of our military I heard they planned to stage protests at the young girl victim from the Arizona shooting that took place a while back. I heard this last evening on the radio, and googled it this morning and could not really find anything definitive. Seems like they want to trade a protest for a media interview. Anyone hear anything on this? These Protestors are now being discussed by Veterans Organizations and I got a ton of emails on this subject so the American Legion and VFW Posts are asking their members to form lines in front of these Protestors at any and all military funerals in their towns.. The Marine Corps League is also getting geared up to deal with these Protestors so that will be interesting to see what a bunch of Old Jarheads do with these protestors at a military funeral..
|
|
|
Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 3, 2011 12:12:08 GMT -5
Yeah PI, I heard that also...there is also some group called Rolling Thunder, that tries to assemble throngs of supporting local citizens to counter-act the WBC. www.rollingthunder1.com/index.html
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,516
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Mar 3, 2011 12:26:54 GMT -5
High court rules for military funeral protestersYea but individuals states are looking into these so called Christian Protesters to pass their own state laws so that families who want to bury their dead soldiers don't have to be subjected to their taunts and outrageousness..[/quote] Which will create future lawsuits in which the WBC will get more public exposure for their sick ideas and which they will ultimately win (US Constitution is the supreme law of the land and the Supreme Court has ruled that it allow them to protest).
|
|
|
Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 3, 2011 12:39:09 GMT -5
Which will create future lawsuits in which the WBC will get more public exposure for their sick ideas and which they will ultimately win (US Constitution is the supreme law of the land and the Supreme Court has ruled that it allow them to protest).
Local ordinances take precendence. A local town can mandate how close the protestor can set up.
|
|
workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
|
Post by workpublic on Mar 3, 2011 12:47:51 GMT -5
ask the KKK to provide security/buffers at military funerals. they're probably up for it. let's turn every aspect of society into a circus.
|
|
|
Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 3, 2011 12:50:11 GMT -5
ask the KKK to provide security/buffers at military funerals. they're probably up for it.
I vote for bringing in Hell's Angels.
|
|
|
Post by marjar on Mar 3, 2011 12:54:28 GMT -5
While I find Phelps and his group to be a vile and loathsome bunch, he did find a way to get his message out and garner plenty of publicity.
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 38,651
|
Post by chiver78 on Mar 3, 2011 12:56:25 GMT -5
I haven't read through the whole thread yet (still catching up from being away all morning!) but wanted to post before I got dragged away again.
as much as the WBC sickens me, this decision is absolutely right. it's disgusting that they are protesting the funerals of soldiers who died protecting their rights, including that right to be able to protest the funeral.
I can only hope that there is a special circle of Hell waiting for Fred Phelps and his followers, as awful as the one I imagine for them.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 19, 2024 16:58:02 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 12:57:12 GMT -5
I can only hope that there is a special circle of Hell waiting for Fred Phelps and his followers, as awful as the one I imagine for them. I think you mean Heaven.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 3, 2011 13:01:11 GMT -5
Yeah PI, I heard that also...there is also some group called Rolling Thunder, that tries to assemble throngs of supporting local citizens to counter-act the WBC. www.rollingthunder1.com/index.htmlRolling Thunder came out here in Northern CA for a funeral a few months ago for a kid who died at 18 in Afghanistan and Reverend Phelps and his congregation were NOT happy campers when the Bikers got in their faces..
|
|
|
Post by dmsm on Mar 3, 2011 13:02:05 GMT -5
The courts did the right thing even though Phelps and his ilk make me ill. The Freedom of Speech is a major part of our freedom. They have said States can impose limits and many have. There are ways of doing away with him and one is to not give him any publicity. NO publicity at all would help in stopping the filth from doiong it again.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Mar 3, 2011 13:05:43 GMT -5
The courts did the right thing even though Phelps and his ilk make me ill. The Freedom of Speech is a major part of our freedom. They have said States can impose limits and many have. There are ways of doing away with him and one is to not give him any publicity. NO publicity at all would help in stopping the filth from doiong it again. The Reverend Phelps and his ilk will now go to the states who don't have laws that protect mourners for our military....but I think eventually this may turn violent with so many who would like to put the Reverend out of business. This religious group calls themselves Baptists...so why doesn't the Baptist Church leaders/elders get involved with what they are doing??
|
|
|
Post by marjar on Mar 3, 2011 14:18:32 GMT -5
My sympathy to the Snyder Family. This must be like losing Matthew a second time.
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Mar 3, 2011 14:36:04 GMT -5
The ruling, though, was in line with many earlier court decisions that said the First Amendment exists to protect robust debate on public issues and free expression, no matter how distasteful. I agree. Guaranteed, someone somewhere will find something not to like about what some individual or group is saying. I'd rather not leave it up to government to determine the legality of that speech based on what somebody finds offensive. All of that means, the chief justice (Roberts) wrote, that the protesters' speech "cannot be restricted simply because it is upsetting or arouses contempt." Well said. Roberts suggested that a proper response to hurtful protests is general laws creating buffer zones around funerals and the like, rather than empowering juries to punish unpopular speech. Maryland, where the protest took place, now has such a law, as do, the chief justice said, 43 other states (including Florida) and the federal government. One has the right to protest, but they don't have the right to protest in violation of state law dictating location. A great, common sense solution brought to you courtesy of states rights. Two ways of looking at protests
. Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. wrote in the majority opinion: "Westboro believes that America is morally flawed; many Americans might feel the same about Westboro. Westboro's funeral picketing is certainly hurtful and its contribution to public discourse may be negligible. But Westboro addressed matters of public import on public property, in a peaceful manner, in full compliance with the guidance of local officials. The speech was indeed planned to coincide with Matthew Snyder's funeral, but did not itself disrupt that funeral, and Westboro's choice to conduct its picketing at that time and place did not alter the nature of its speech.
"Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both joy and sorrow, and— as it did here — inflict great pain. On the facts before us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker. As a Nation we have chosen a different course — to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate. That choice requires that we shield Westboro from tort liability for its picketing in this case."
. Lone dissenter, Justice Samuel Alito, countered that church members have countless ways to express their beliefs. "It does not follow, however, that they may intentionally inflict severe emotional injury on private persons at a time of intense emotional sensitivity by launching vicious verbal attacks that make no contribution to public debate," Alito wrote.
www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/supreme-court-says-antigay-funeral-picketers-allowed-under-the-first/1154933
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Mar 3, 2011 14:42:06 GMT -5
My sympathy to the Snyder Family. This must be like losing Matthew a second time. And it's not over yet....The financial pain has yet to begin. Synder said it's now possible he will have to pay the Phelpses around $100,000, which they are seeking in legal fees, because he lost the lawsuit.
|
|
Loopdilou
Well-Known Member
AKA Mrs. Dark Honor
Joined: Feb 27, 2012 19:41:33 GMT -5
Posts: 1,365
|
Post by Loopdilou on Mar 3, 2011 14:44:58 GMT -5
My sympathy to the Snyder Family. This must be like losing Matthew a second time. And it's not over yet....The financial pain has yet to begin. Synder said it's now possible he will have to pay the Phelpses around $100,000, which they are seeking in legal fees, because he lost the lawsuit. The Snyder's would have known that was coming.
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Mar 3, 2011 15:29:44 GMT -5
Rolling Thunder came out here in Northern CA for a funeral a few months ago for a kid who died at 18 in Afghanistan and Reverend Phelps and his congregation were NOT happy campers when the Bikers got in their faces.. Rolling Thunder is a great group. I've had the pleasure of riding with one of the local chapters on a poker run to benefit Haley House not too long ago. They are more of an overall Veteran's Affairs rider group where PRG's main mission is to attend the funeral services of fallen servicemen and women.
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Mar 3, 2011 15:31:09 GMT -5
The Snyder's would have known that was coming. I can almost guarantee that it won't cost him a dime. I'm sure he'll get the financial support needed to cover this.
|
|
EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on Mar 3, 2011 18:03:55 GMT -5
[quote author=floridayankee board=politics thread=4173 post=166570 time=1299180964 I agree. Guaranteed, someone somewhere will find something not to like about what some individual or group is saying. I'd rather not leave it up to government to determine the legality of that speech based on what somebody finds offensive.
Roberts suggested that a proper response to hurtful protests is general laws creating buffer zones around funerals and the like, rather than empowering juries to punish unpopular speech. Maryland, where the protest took place, now has such a law, as do, the chief justice said, 43 other states (including Florida) and the federal government. One has the right to protest, but they don't have the right to protest in violation of state law dictating location. A great, common sense solution brought to you courtesy of states rights.
[/quote] I agree. Deciding any differently would seriously weaken the first amendment and subject it to constant debate by juries and their prejudices anytime someone had their feelings hurt and felt like suing. People with outrageous views have a say to whether I agree with them or not, be it the KKK, Westboro, Satanists, Tea Partiers, etc. ;D
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Mar 3, 2011 18:07:57 GMT -5
Which will create future lawsuits in which the WBC will get more public exposure for their sick ideas and which they will ultimately win (US Constitution is the supreme law of the land and the Supreme Court has ruled that it allow them to protest). Local ordinances take precendence. A local town can mandate how close the protestor can set up. well ok, three miles away would seem right to me and not on any road leading to the cemetary would be about right. Near the town would suit me, say right outside it, possible even put up a sign designating the site...where the trash should be collected for disposal...
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,516
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Mar 3, 2011 18:47:49 GMT -5
Which will create future lawsuits in which the WBC will get more public exposure for their sick ideas and which they will ultimately win (US Constitution is the supreme law of the land and the Supreme Court has ruled that it allow them to protest). Local ordinances take precendence. A local town can mandate how close the protestor can set up. well ok, three miles away would seem right to me and not on any road leading to the cemetary would be about right. Near the town would suit me, say right outside it, possible even put up a sign designating the site...where the trash should be collected for disposal... Make it too extreme and you will just get if voided (with taxpayers picking up the legal costs for the WBC ).
|
|
EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on Mar 3, 2011 18:57:18 GMT -5
Just to throw this in the debate- what about abortion protesters waving dead fetus signs or worse in the face of women going into clinics? Is that first amendment or intentional infliction of emotional distress- say maybe to a rape victim? Kind of depends on the jury doesn't it? See why setting a precedent in allowing recovery in this case would be a bad idea?
And 3 miles? No way. Buffer zones sound mighty unconstitutional to me as well- think George Bush and his 'free speech zones'. Government can stay out of it- if you want to avoid protesters you need to find a venue with a little more private acreage for whatever it is you are doing.
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Mar 3, 2011 19:26:02 GMT -5
well ok, three miles away would seem right to me and not on any road leading to the cemetary would be about right. Near the town would suit me, say right outside it, possible even put up a sign designating the site...where the trash should be collected for disposal... Make it too extreme and you will just get if voided (with taxpayers picking up the legal costs for the WBC ). Get good legal council before writing the staute, bet you could ask for and get, the best legal help in the country, including retired Justices to give advice and draw up the statute pro bono...it could then be used by other communities throughout the nation, bet you could even get pro bono for defending it if it was challenged, it would be, and made it's way up the chain of courts.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,516
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Mar 3, 2011 19:52:57 GMT -5
Make it too extreme and you will just get if voided (with taxpayers picking up the legal costs for the WBC ). Get good legal council before writing the staute, bet you could ask for and get, the best legal help in the country, including retired Justices to give advice and draw up the statute pro bono...it could then be used by other communities throughout the nation, bet you could even get pro bono for defending it if it was challenged, it would be, and made it's way up the chain of courts. Great idea. Good legal council will ensure that you aren't passing garbage and will keep a court from dumping the law. Pro bono would save you the cost of defending it but remember if you lose you are still paying their lawyers and court costs.
|
|
handyman2
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 23:56:33 GMT -5
Posts: 3,087
|
Post by handyman2 on Mar 3, 2011 20:12:18 GMT -5
I live in rural Appalachia there was a funeral for a native son and the westboro bunch planned on picketing the funeral. The Sheriff told them he did not have the resources to give them protection from all the shot guns in those pickups that would be there to meet them. They never showed up. Sure enough there were flags and pickups every 100 feet along the funeral route.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,516
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Mar 3, 2011 20:16:15 GMT -5
I live in rural Appalachia there was a funeral for a native son and the westboro bunch planned on picketing the funeral. The Sheriff told them he did not have the resources to give them protection from all the shot guns in those pickups that would be there to meet them. They never showed up. Sure enough there were flags and pickups every 100 feet along the funeral route. My understanding is that they frequently don't bother to show up if they can get enough publicity just saying they will be there.
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Mar 3, 2011 22:28:29 GMT -5
Get good legal council before writing the staute, bet you could ask for and get, the best legal help in the country, including retired Justices to give advice and draw up the statute pro bono...it could then be used by other communities throughout the nation, bet you could even get pro bono for defending it if it was challenged, it would be, and made it's way up the chain of courts. Great idea. Good legal council will ensure that you aren't passing garbage and will keep a court from dumping the law. Pro bono would save you the cost of defending it but remember if you lose you are still paying their lawyers and court costs. Not sure about that, question was brought uop in the old zine and was answered by a "real" attorney who was a contributot, depending on what kind of case ..laws at the time. I am sure , pass the hat on this one, no problem covering any costs, i'll throw in a ten spot.
|
|