Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 2, 2011 16:07:23 GMT -5
Many reasons have been covered already, but I'd like to add that dangerous jobs are disproportionatly held by men. I don't have the statistics on hand, but if I recall, men are more than 10x as likely to suffer workplace deaths as women. This is one reason traditional "man fields" pay more.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 2, 2011 16:09:10 GMT -5
"Sooooo....maybe they should take the title of "Mom" off of their resume? Honestly, how on earth would a hiring manager know whichc candidate was a mother? "
I agree. There's no reason your family situation should ever come up in the hiring process unless you supply that information of your own free will. Your employer doesn't need to know if you're married or not, if you have kids or not, if you have elderly parents or not.....
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 2, 2011 16:10:55 GMT -5
From the Business Week Article "Using fake resumes for two equally qualified candidates–one childless, one a mom—the researchers found that the mother was 100% less likely to be hired when she applied for a position. Mothers were consistently ranked as less competent and less committed than non-moms." Sooooo....maybe they should take the title of "Mom" off of their resume? Honestly, how on earth would a hiring manager know whichc candidate was a mother? Isn't it illegal to ask if a candidate has children? I haven't interviewed in about a year or so, but I do remember being given a list of things we weren't allowed to ask from our HR department. I could swear that was one of them.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 2, 2011 16:14:16 GMT -5
Sooooo....maybe they should take the title of "Mom" off of their resume? Honestly, how on earth would a hiring manager know whichc candidate was a mother? Who seriously puts "mom" on their resume? Way to get your resume thrown in the trash pile before you even get started. I had someone ask if she should inform her boss she was thinking about having a baby. I said NOOOOOOOOOO. It's none of his business till you actually are pregnant and plan to take leave. Otherwise you are shooting yourself in the foot by trying to be "helpful". You never know who might dislike pregnant women. I collaborated with someone who openly admitted he fired a technician because "mothers don't make good technicians" and encouraged another collaborator to do the same to his technician!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 2, 2011 16:15:53 GMT -5
Isn't it illegal to ask if a candidate has children?
I am not sure if it is actually illegal, but I do know it is very hard to prove that that is why you were not hired/fired.
Besides if someone slaps "mom" on their resume that pretty much gives it away and a lot of women don't stop to think about it before they give away personal details like having children and being married.
I reveal none of that on an interview, it comes out later once I get the job or I am in the running. I DEFINETLY do not put it on my resume.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 2, 2011 16:21:00 GMT -5
What kind of moron puts "I'm a mom" or "I'm a dad" on my resume?!
I wouldn't hire someone who put that on there specifically because they're too dumb to understand that is not appropriate info for a resume.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 2, 2011 16:21:51 GMT -5
What you mean I don't put that under hobbies along with knitting and throw sticks for my dog?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 2, 2011 16:23:00 GMT -5
Oh, hobbies are perfectly acceptable, as are height, weight, eye color, and hair color. ;P
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 16:23:09 GMT -5
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 2, 2011 16:23:45 GMT -5
Just an FYI, there should never be anything about mannequins or dress forms under your hobbies section either. People apparently think "it's super creepy" or something.
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sil
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Post by sil on Mar 2, 2011 16:25:16 GMT -5
I was kind of kidding about them listing "Mom" on the resume.
I'm guessing the interviewer got this information by either asking about gaps in a resume, for a woman who quit a job to stay at home. Or they asked if the candidate had any objections to working more than 40 hours a week, traveling a certain percentage of the time, etc.
Still, if you answer that you could not do the required travel/hours due to family obligations, that means you declined the job. They did not decline you.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Mar 2, 2011 17:10:57 GMT -5
I was kind of kidding about them listing "Mom" on the resume. I'm guessing the interviewer got this information by either asking about gaps in a resume, for a woman who quit a job to stay at home. Or they asked if the candidate had any objections to working more than 40 hours a week, traveling a certain percentage of the time, etc. Still, if you answer that you could not do the required travel/hours due to family obligations, that means you declined the job. They did not decline you. I haven't had a chance to read all the posts, but I did want to comment about listing "mom" on a resume. Possiblities are as sil posted, but here's another: Job seekers are often told to try to cover job gaps by inserting other experience relevent to the position such as volunteer work. So if you get a female candidate who took off several years to be a SAHM who submits a resume lising "Treasurer of the Golden Heights Elementary School PTO" and "Secretary for Golden Heights Boy Scout Troop 123" as part of their volunteer work to cover that job gap, odds are your applicant is a mom. Just a thought.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 2, 2011 17:19:37 GMT -5
I'm in a somewhat unique position. DH transitioned from female to male 8 years ago and it really opened my eyes to the fact that male privilege does exist. He is paid more than his female counterparts even ones that have more experience/seniority often. He also got a lot of attitude for taking 7 weeks off when our son was born. So I agree that a lot of it is environmental (women not negotiating their salaries, or being on the mommy track), some of it is just societal expectations that we do have to work to eliminate.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 2, 2011 17:37:52 GMT -5
I'm in a somewhat unique position. DH transitioned from female to male 8 years ago and it really opened my eyes to the fact that male privilege does exist. He is paid more than his female counterparts even ones that have more experience/seniority often. He also got a lot of attitude for taking 7 weeks off when our son was born. So I agree that a lot of it is environmental (women not negotiating their salaries, or being on the mommy track), some of it is just societal expectations that we do have to work to eliminate. Yup, I think that qualifies as a somewhat unique position
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 2, 2011 17:41:34 GMT -5
Total nosiness on my part, so feel free to ignore me, but were you guys together before the transition or did you meet after?
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ihearyou2
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Post by ihearyou2 on Mar 2, 2011 17:49:40 GMT -5
I'm in a somewhat unique position. DH transitioned from female to male 8 years ago and it really opened my eyes to the fact that male privilege does exist. He is paid more than his female counterparts even ones that have more experience/seniority often. He also got a lot of attitude for taking 7 weeks off when our son was born. So I agree that a lot of it is environmental (women not negotiating their salaries, or being on the mommy track), some of it is just societal expectations that we do have to work to eliminate. Horsepucky
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 2, 2011 17:52:28 GMT -5
Dark Honor--yes, we had been together for 6 years when he transitioned.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 2, 2011 18:08:10 GMT -5
Did you notice the change affecting the way you viewed him? I mean, did you have certain ideas of what he needed to bring to the relationship that changed after the surgery? I've always wondered how our own internal sexist tendencies would be affected by a gender transformation. We can say we're super accepting, that we love and view our partner for who they are no matter what, but I'd be willing to bet that we all have some kind of sexist ideas buried up there, and I wonder how that would manifest in relationships where one partner switches their gender.
You know what I mean?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 2, 2011 18:09:01 GMT -5
Wow, raeoflyte. You are a special lady for sticking with a partner through a gender switch. Karma for you.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 2, 2011 18:11:05 GMT -5
We can say we're super accepting, that we love and view our partner for who they are no matter what, but I'd be willing to bet that we all have some kind of sexist ideas buried up there, and I wonder how that would manifest in relationships where one partner switches their gender.
My thoughts exactly. I'm trying to picture DBF telling me he wanted to become a woman... I'm not sure I could go through with that. Couldn't even begin to imagine the impact it would have on our relationship, not to mention our relationship as a couple with other people.
Haha, the funny thing is that DBF and I have the male and female version of the same first name. So if he DID become a woman, we actually COULD have the same name. That would be pretty funny.
My turn for a nosy question: Did you already have kids together? If so, how did they take the change? If not, do you plan on telling your son about it when he's old enough?
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 2, 2011 18:35:46 GMT -5
Dark Honor--That is a great question, that I've never gotten before! I don't think I expected him to bring anything different to the relationship post transition, except maybe to not be so depressed which in turn makes for a more functional person. I don't want to sound like gender doesn't matter, and it is a huge mind warp to wrap your brain around in the beginning. But I never had a feeling that he should now do "man's work" like mowing the lawn or taking out the trash. I've always made more money than he does. As far as traditional male or female roles, I think he and I are a pretty even mix of both. Firebird--We did not have kids at the time, but we'll definitely tell our son. Thankfully dh has never wanted to erase his past, or make the rest of the world pretend that he was born male. I can't imagine the logistics of creating a new childhood.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 2, 2011 18:48:08 GMT -5
Wow, that's all I can say. Did he *always* feel male in a way that made it a factor in your relationship from the beginning?
(Now you've got me intensely curious about the whole matter... that was the first question of thousands that came to mind. Feel free to tell me to bugger off ;D)
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 2, 2011 18:53:07 GMT -5
As far as traditional male or female roles, I think he and I are a pretty even mix of both. Makes sense. I think a lot more couples are operating this way these days anyway. I was just curious.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 2, 2011 20:45:39 GMT -5
How can you go from being a lesbian to not being one? I thought it's suppose to be the "nature" of you.
Lena
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 2, 2011 20:50:01 GMT -5
I don't know who says that, and I am sure it sounds nice, but I don't believe that people are all that accepting
Lena
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 2, 2011 22:28:49 GMT -5
Firebird--no worries. If it's a question I'm not comfortable with I'll say so, but I try to be very open about it. In our circle it's almost common place, but realistically most people have never met a trans person. I think its good to put a 'face' to it. I was definitely not aware that he had any thoughts of transition, or that he didn't feel like a woman. In hindsight I can see lots of clues but I didn't know that anyone could or would transition female to male. We were very young (met in highschool, moved in together before I graduated). A close friend of ours started his transition, and once I understood more about it, I could see dh taking that path. I won't say it isn't a difficult time, but it came down to one question: Was I willing to let go of a wonderful person and relationship because of gender? For me, the answer was no. Lena--that is a question I frequently ask myself, but will probably never be able to answer. What if I were single and chose not to date? Am I only a lesbian if I am with another woman? Is it how society views me, or what I think/feel? There are straight women who stay with their spouses who transition male to female. Are they now lesbians? I have loved dh in all of the various packaging he has presented me with: female, male, overweight, and lean. I can't say that gender is a 'detail' exactly, but it at least isn't a deciding factor for those of us who choose to stay in relationships post transition. I didn't mean to hijack the thread and go completely off topic. Just wanted to put our experience out there on the often invisible effects of gender.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 2, 2011 23:19:02 GMT -5
Well, if you are happy and he is happy and your child is happy and none of you are hurting anybody, that's all that matters.
My little brain can not comprehend all that, but that's just me. I can love my DH fat and skinny, but the day he decides he doesn't like his penis and wants a vagina, we are done, done done and then done again.
I wish your family well, I would think it's not an easy path to take. I hope your child adjusts well too.
Lena
P.S. Yes, I thought the "requirement" of being a lesbian was to be with another woman. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Mar 2, 2011 23:28:08 GMT -5
That's bull. I had that same problem early in my career, including when I first went to London. My assertiveness was viewed as being too aggressive and difficult. I sought out good mentors who advised me how to change my demeanor ever so slightly to channel my aggressiveness so it could be an asset instead of a liability. I took classes in influencing & persuading others and negotiation tactics and realized that it was all in the way I presented myself.
I suspect that these women haven't learned this art. I also [personally] believe **these** types of women believe the only way to get up the corporate ladder is to be a, excuse my language, bad ass bitch. That doesn't work for the mean bitch and the big f'ing a**hole guy won't get far either. Has nothing to do with gender; I know plenty of successful women who have a wonderful demeanor about them in the business environment.
ETA - mods, shoot me an email if I need to clean up the color...don't mean to offend but get across the point clearly. [/size]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 0:32:57 GMT -5
"I don't think I'm perceived as a bitch - I hope not, anyway! I get called assertive all the time, but I've never heard that word directed at me in a pejorative manner. "
Trust me- if they say you are assertive to your face, they are calling you a bitch or a ball buster behind your back.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 0:36:27 GMT -5
I can't even read this these comments - they are making me ill. SF would find a woman with bargaining skills "hot" and divorce settlements. WWBG talks about power in bedrooms in exchange for work equality. You should both be utterly ashamed of yourselves. Women want equal pay for equal work and you two dredge up YOUR PRIVATE RELATIONSHIP ISSUES to justify the continuing inequity. You both are low creatures in need of THERAPY which you will never go get because you're so sure it the fault of the female psyche. It's not - it is YOU! Bravo! Beautifully said!!!
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