djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 13:18:14 GMT -5
i am thinking you don't know much about BH. i can't blame you. they are virtually uncovered in the West. but we can fix that. i have a machine to ship, so i gotta go. i can provide you with details later. but for now: BH has plenty of funding. Nope. I do know about "BH". You might want to check your "thinking" for assumptions. i have not made any assumptions. however, it is possible that i misread your posts. earlier, you appeared to be claiming that BH was not well funded. it is quite well funded. were you claiming that ISIS's funding was better? fine. let's stop talking in generalities, then. how much better is ISIS's funding than BH's?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 13:25:03 GMT -5
In short...much like IS or BH...Liberals do not allow differing opinion! You're welcome! IS and BH are quite conservative, b2r. you know that, right?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 13:25:36 GMT -5
DJ-
I know that you are vociferously against all of this and I respect that. However, I have come reluctantly to the opposite conclusion (as we discussed a couple of weeks ago)
I respect your opinion on this, and even wish I agreed with it. I have come to the conclusion that they need to be dealt with. why? edit: and while you are at it, why NOT deal with BH?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 13:34:54 GMT -5
here is what i am trying to say:
BH and ISIS are similar in size, strength, weaponry, training, and brutality. BH and ISIS have both made credible threats against the US, and put forth a caliphate.
so, they are more than a little similar.
BH's threats are not taken seriously. i actually AGREE WITH THE REASONING THERE.
so, why is ISIS's?
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Sept 24, 2014 13:40:44 GMT -5
Nope. I do know about "BH". You might want to check your "thinking" for assumptions. i have not made any assumptions. however, it is possible that i misread your posts. earlier, you appeared to be claiming that BH was not well funded. it is quite well funded. were you claiming that ISIS's funding was better? fine. let's stop talking in generalities, then. how much better is ISIS's funding than BH's? I'd say quite a bit better, dj. They're holding a very large section with access to oil they can sell. They've also got a lot of "angels". Exactly "how much better", I don't know, though.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 14:21:20 GMT -5
i have not made any assumptions. however, it is possible that i misread your posts. earlier, you appeared to be claiming that BH was not well funded. it is quite well funded. were you claiming that ISIS's funding was better? fine. let's stop talking in generalities, then. how much better is ISIS's funding than BH's? I'd say quite a bit better, dj. They're holding a very large section with access to oil they can sell. They've also got a lot of "angels". Exactly "how much better", I don't know, though. i don't think anyone knows for certain. but i think BH gets considerable funding from the Nigerian resource industry, as well.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 14:26:37 GMT -5
why? edit: and while you are at it, why NOT deal with BH? Because of point one, above. They are in the middle of an F'd up and very volatile region which is critical to maintain some modicum of control over for the security of the world economy. Because of the oil. Because if we don't jump in, somebody else will. Or maybe even worse if no one does. In short, all of the reasons that the ptb would also espouse.
you mean, the same reasons i espoused on post #54.
Sometimes they do happen to be right. I wish we could just walk away from it. I just don't think we can here, especially because we are part of the reason that they sprouted up in the first place. (and yes, I think we can right the wrong in a way- at least to the extant that we can mitigate them) I think it is absolutely critical that local powers lead the way in any way they can- such as on the ground. There are several reasons for this, but the most critical is so that they own it- not us.
i think we need to be careful about the term "right", here. not to pull a Clinton, but there are two distinct meanings to that term. it means "correct", which is how you are using it here. it can also mean "moral", which i think SHOULD be an important aspect of foreign policy, if it is to be a policy that can be sustained. so, i would argue that tptb are indeed "right" about our need for control, but they are about as far from right as the could possibly be for how to secure that right.
BH does not meet these criteria.
Wish I could explain more or in better detail, but I gotta go for now.
no need. you answered it. it is not in our strategic interests to fight BH, even though they present an almost identical threat. that is the answer i am looking for.
|
|
wyouser
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:35:20 GMT -5
Posts: 12,126
|
Post by wyouser on Sept 24, 2014 14:34:55 GMT -5
Just for thoughts, but the Nigerian military is saying today that BH leader Abubaka Shekau has been killed. (for the record, this is not the first time that the military has said they have killed him)
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 14:37:29 GMT -5
Just for thoughts, but the Nigerian military is saying today that BH leader Abubaka Shekau has been killed. (for the record, this is not the first time that the military has said they have killed him) it would be nice if we could make that happen in Iraq or Syria. catch my drift?
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Sept 24, 2014 17:12:26 GMT -5
Went first to the bank this early afternoon..put on radio, NPR..people discussing ISIS...Came out of bank about 45 minutes later, on the way to Doctors for a appointment..talking about ISIS..different people..same station by the way, NPR..Came out of Doctors ooffice a little after 5...Still talking about ISIS..again different people..
Me thinks this is a important topic /...bit more then many Americans are aware of...
Dj ..."i really doubt that you have any idea what i am open to."...I beg to differ..with the amount of your postings on topics one does not have to be psychic to get the gist of where you are coming from...no biggie really or anything of importance really...or what one is open to...
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,513
|
Post by billisonboard on Sept 24, 2014 18:49:49 GMT -5
Went first to the bank this early afternoon..put on radio, NPR..people discussing ISIS...Came out of bank about 45 minutes later, on the way to Doctors for a appointment..talking about ISIS..different people..same station by the way, NPR..Came out of Doctors ooffice a little after 5...Still talking about ISIS..again different people.. Me thinks this is a important topic /...bit more then many Americans are aware of... ...... du jour
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 14:06:58 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 19:45:31 GMT -5
Nigeria has oil. i have been waiting for that. i think it is more strategic than that. and that is fine. Obama should just say that he wants to take on ISIS because he wants to control what is going on in the ME. that would be, imo, and honest assessment. and then the American people could decide whether that is a "noble and just cause" or not. instead, we are getting lied to, imo. Obama is a waterboy for the PNAC. it is really sad. pathetic, actually. it is precisely the same logic that got us into Iraq in the first place. we didn't learn a damned thing. but wheras there were a MILLION PEOPLE in the streets in 2003, i don't even think there are 1000 now. repugnant. upsetting. disillusioning. i am starting to think that charismatic leaders are a really bad idea.You are just now figuring that out? I've known that since before I could vote.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 19:51:14 GMT -5
Went first to the bank this early afternoon..put on radio, NPR..people discussing ISIS...Came out of bank about 45 minutes later, on the way to Doctors for a appointment..talking about ISIS..different people..same station by the way, NPR..Came out of Doctors ooffice a little after 5...Still talking about ISIS..again different people.. Me thinks this is a important topic /...bit more then many Americans are aware of... yeah- it is way more important than Britney Spears, that's for sure. she is a far less worthy attention whore.
the American public thought Saddam was responsible for 911. the American public supported Bush by 9:1 at the end of 2001. 60% of the American public believes in a physical hell, commanded by the fiery one. forgive me if i couldn't give two craps about what the American public is "talking about". you would be hard pressed to make a less compelling argument to me or any rational person.
Dj ..."i really doubt that you have any idea what i am open to."...I beg to differ..with the amount of your postings on topics one does not have to be psychic to get the gist of where you are coming from...no biggie really or anything of importance really...or what one is open to... trust me, you really have no clue about me. i change my mind about stuff all of the time. but i will admit that i find your arguments totally unconvincing, as a general rule. you are good at expressing your feelings about stuff, but present very little in the way of fact. so, if i am going to change my mind, it will probably be someone like Cap or Richard or mmhmm that does it, as they rely far less on emotionally potent oversimplification than you do.
now, if we can PLEASE get back to the subject, and off the thorougly boring topic of you and i, i and everyone else would appreciate it.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 19:52:00 GMT -5
Nigeria has oil. i have been waiting for that. i think it is more strategic than that. and that is fine. Obama should just say that he wants to take on ISIS because he wants to control what is going on in the ME. that would be, imo, and honest assessment. and then the American people could decide whether that is a "noble and just cause" or not. instead, we are getting lied to, imo. Obama is a waterboy for the PNAC. it is really sad. pathetic, actually. it is precisely the same logic that got us into Iraq in the first place. we didn't learn a damned thing. but wheras there were a MILLION PEOPLE in the streets in 2003, i don't even think there are 1000 now. repugnant. upsetting. disillusioning. i am starting to think that charismatic leaders are a really bad idea.You are just now figuring that out? I've known that since before I could vote. have you noticed that i tend to both overstate and understate things for humorous effect?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 19:52:48 GMT -5
Went first to the bank this early afternoon..put on radio, NPR..people discussing ISIS...Came out of bank about 45 minutes later, on the way to Doctors for a appointment..talking about ISIS..different people..same station by the way, NPR..Came out of Doctors ooffice a little after 5...Still talking about ISIS..again different people.. Me thinks this is a important topic /...bit more then many Americans are aware of... ...... du jour precisely. i remember several months when all anyone could talk about was the threat posed by killer bees.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Sept 24, 2014 19:53:31 GMT -5
Went first to the bank this early afternoon..put on radio, NPR..people discussing ISIS...Came out of bank about 45 minutes later, on the way to Doctors for a appointment..talking about ISIS..different people..same station by the way, NPR..Came out of Doctors ooffice a little after 5...Still talking about ISIS..again different people.. Me thinks this is a important topic /...bit more then many Americans are aware of... yeah- it is way more important than Britney Spears, that's for sure. she is a far less worthy attention whore.
the American public thought Saddam was responsible for 911. the American public supported Bush by 9:1 at the end of 2001. 60% of the American public believes in a physical hell, commanded by the fiery one. forgive me if i couldn't give two craps about it what the American public is "talking about". you would be hard pressed to make a less compelling argument to me or any rational person.
Dj ..."i really doubt that you have any idea what i am open to."...I beg to differ..with the amount of your postings on topics one does not have to be psychic to get the gist of where you are coming from...no biggie really or anything of importance really...or what one is open to... trust me, you really have no clue about me. i change my mind about stuff all of the time. but i will admit that i find your arguments totally unconvincing, as a general rule. you are good at expressing your feelings about stuff, but present very little in the way of fact. so, if i am going to change my mind, it will probably be someone like Cap or mmhmm that does it, as they rely far less on emotionally potent oversimplification than you do. It won't be me, dj! If anything, it might be my friend if he's able to share things that will help us sort some of this out, and is willing to have me share those things.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 14:06:58 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 19:55:03 GMT -5
You are just now figuring that out? I've known that since before I could vote. have you noticed that i tend to both overstate and understate things for humorous effect? Yup. Problem is you also state general/new information as well... so... one is never quite sure which something you post is.... overstatement, understatement, or general/new statement.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 19:56:12 GMT -5
trust me, you really have no clue about me. i change my mind about stuff all of the time. but i will admit that i find your arguments totally unconvincing, as a general rule. you are good at expressing your feelings about stuff, but present very little in the way of fact. so, if i am going to change my mind, it will probably be someone like Cap or mmhmm that does it, as they rely far less on emotionally potent oversimplification than you do. It won't be me, dj! If anything, it might be my friend if he's able to share things that will help us sort some of this out, and is willing to have me share those things. credit goes to the person who brings the information to me, mmhmm. i don't care if it is Al Jezeera or your friend. seriously.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 19:56:45 GMT -5
have you noticed that i tend to both overstate and understate things for humorous effect? Yup. Problem is you also state general/new information as well... so... one is never quite sure which something you post is.... overstatement, understatement, or general/new statement. so, does that drive you nuts, or are you good with it?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 14:06:58 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 19:57:13 GMT -5
Oh, I'm good with it!
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 19:59:32 GMT -5
Oh, I'm good with it! good. for the record, when i say "i am starting to think", it is more like "i have been thinking this for a long time, and this is a perfect example", i am just trying to be .... i dunno- less arrogant sounding? i like to soft peddle stuff like that.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 14:06:58 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 20:02:33 GMT -5
Yeah... but you supported Charismatic Emperor Obama until now.... so.... see how I could believe this was a new revelation?
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Sept 24, 2014 20:11:29 GMT -5
Yeah... but you supported Charismatic Emperor Obama until now.... so.... see how I could believe this was a new revelation? Dj? Really?!? Nah. I know he didn't vote for Obama, and I've never known him to support Obama across the board.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 20:19:37 GMT -5
Yeah... but you supported Charismatic Emperor Obama until now.... so.... see how I could believe this was a new revelation? i am generally distrusting of charisma for the obvious reason. and i am generally supportive of presidents simply because they are ours. try not to draw too many conclusions or associations between those two things. they don't really exist.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 24, 2014 20:21:52 GMT -5
Yeah... but you supported Charismatic Emperor Obama until now.... so.... see how I could believe this was a new revelation? Dj? Really?!? Nah. I know he didn't vote for Obama, and I've never known him to support Obama across the board. i have NEVER supported Obama's foreign policy (which is the main reason i didn't vote for him either time). however, prior to now, he was pretty sedate in terms of what he did- generally following the guidance laid out for him by that genius, W. this, however- attacking ISIS targets in Syria- who he recently negotiated a weapons ban with- against their wishes- in the middle of a powder keg with some sassy rebels? this is actually well beyond Bush level stupid, imo -and that is really saying something.
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Sept 24, 2014 23:03:29 GMT -5
Went first to the bank this early afternoon..put on radio, NPR..people discussing ISIS...Came out of bank about 45 minutes later, on the way to Doctors for a appointment..talking about ISIS..different people..same station by the way, NPR..Came out of Doctors ooffice a little after 5...Still talking about ISIS..again different people.. Me thinks this is a important topic /...bit more then many Americans are aware of... yeah- it is way more important than Britney Spears, that's for sure. she is a far less worthy attention whore.
the American public thought Saddam was responsible for 911. the American public supported Bush by 9:1 at the end of 2001. 60% of the American public believes in a physical hell, commanded by the fiery one. forgive me if i couldn't give two craps about what the American public is "talking about". you would be hard pressed to make a less compelling argument to me or any rational person.
Dj ..."i really doubt that you have any idea what i am open to."...I beg to differ..with the amount of your postings on topics one does not have to be psychic to get the gist of where you are coming from...no biggie really or anything of importance really...or what one is open to... trust me, you really have no clue about me. i change my mind about stuff all of the time. but i will admit that i find your arguments totally unconvincing, as a general rule. you are good at expressing your feelings about stuff, but present very little in the way of fact. so, if i am going to change my mind, it will probably be someone like Cap or Richard or mmhmm that does it, as they rely far less on emotionally potent oversimplification than you do.
now, if we can PLEASE get back to the subject, and off the thorougly boring topic of you and i, i and everyone else would appreciate it.
I don't think I put through that many arguments to try and sway people toward any conclusions..definitely not mine as on so many of these issues I really don't have a clue..just that these issues do seem to be important or as the one above..what was on the radio for a very very long time ..just a observation that I made..as far as the facts ..it is no more then what I said..a observation which to ME seems to have some importance to it and which, and I admit I may be wrong, which we will be hearing more and more about. As far as changing your mind..it is the last thing on my mind and never considered..not that impressed with your mind to be honest about it as it seems is your feelings about mine..no sweat, not important..
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 25, 2014 10:56:11 GMT -5
trust me, you really have no clue about me. i change my mind about stuff all of the time. but i will admit that i find your arguments totally unconvincing, as a general rule. you are good at expressing your feelings about stuff, but present very little in the way of fact. so, if i am going to change my mind, it will probably be someone like Cap or Richard or mmhmm that does it, as they rely far less on emotionally potent oversimplification than you do.
now, if we can PLEASE get back to the subject, and off the thorougly boring topic of you and i, i and everyone else would appreciate it.
I don't think I put through that many arguments to try and sway people toward any conclusions.. still talking about "us", i see. BO....RING!!!
dez- i am not here to "sway opinion". that is why Paul posts, but it is not why i am here. i am here to learn about people and their positions, and to argue points, which has a way of refining and sharpening them. i have long ago given up on the idea that what i think will have ANY influence on anyone here.
definitely not mine as on so many of these issues I really don't have a clue..just that these issues do seem to be important or as the one above..what was on the radio for a very very long time ..just a observation that I made..as far as the facts ..it is no more then what I said..a observation which to ME seems to have some importance to it and which, and I admit I may be wrong, which we will be hearing more and more about. As far as changing your mind..it is the last thing on my mind and never considered..not that impressed with your mind to be honest about it as it seems is your feelings about mine..no sweat, not important.. i am not interested in whether you are "wrong" or not, for the record, only if you can back up your position.
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Sept 25, 2014 11:00:43 GMT -5
I find myself, in my jaded older self, agreeing more and more with Kissinger. We have power to do some good, but it is tempered by the reality of what can be achieved in the world as it is. We must function within that world.
The age of the nation state is not being supplanted. The world is not one big community in many ways. Nation States are necessary to bring and hold order to the regions over which they hold sovereignty. Where there is no nation state there is only the void of lawlessness, chaos, and the triumph in many cases of evil.
Gawd help me.
|
|
Jaguar
Administrator
Fear does not stop death. It stops life.
Joined: Dec 20, 2011 6:07:45 GMT -5
Posts: 50,108
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IZlZ65.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Text Color: 290066
|
Post by Jaguar on Sept 27, 2014 13:04:40 GMT -5
I just seen on CNN tv channel that 50+ nations are now fighting against ISIS. When I find links I'll post them.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Sept 27, 2014 20:24:07 GMT -5
I just seen on CNN tv channel that 50+ nations are now fighting against ISIS. When I find links I'll post them.
I heard the same on mother's television earlier, Sugi.
|
|