EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Sept 2, 2014 18:02:48 GMT -5
www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/us/2-convicted-in-1983-north-carolina-murder-freed-after-dna-tests.html?_r=0All too common- mental problems, false confession, police tunnelvision, and a prosecutor that can never admit they were wrong. Thirty years after their convictions in the rape and murder of an 11-year-old girl in rural North Carolina, based on confessions that they quickly repudiated and said were coerced, two mentally disabled half-brothers were declared innocent and released Tuesday by a Robeson County court. The two young defendants were prosecuted by the district attorney Joe Freeman Britt, a 6-foot-6, Bible-quoting lawyer who was later profiled by “60 Minutes” as the country’s “deadliest D.A.” In 1994, when the United States Supreme Court turned down a request for review of the case, Justice Antonin Scalia described Mr. McCollum’s crime as so heinous that it would be hard to argue against lethal injection. Justice Harry A. Blackmun, who was an open opponent of the death penalty and had voted to hear the case, noted that Mr. McCollum had the mental age of a 9-year-old and that “this factor alone persuades me that the death penalty in this case is unconstitutional.” Recent testing by an independent state agency, the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission, found a match for the DNA on the cigarette butt – not to either of the imprisoned men, but to Roscoe Artis, who lived only a block from where Sabrina Buie’s body was found and had a history of rape convictions. Joe Freeman Britt, the original prosecutor, told The News & Observer last week that he still believed the men were guilty.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 2, 2014 18:53:29 GMT -5
*shudder* How terribly sad for those two young men. As though they weren't saddled with enough adversity!
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Sept 2, 2014 19:25:29 GMT -5
And if we just marched them out back and carried out the sentences as some want we would never know. Don't see how we keep it on the table when this happens as frequent as it does.
Thought one thing was funny- the GOP used one of their mugshots in a campaign ad
I say thank God there are people working these old cases for free pursuing real justice for folks society at large has cast off and forgotten about.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2014 23:34:51 GMT -5
this case in particular illustrates a more general problem with murder cases than just the death penalty. but it works for that, too.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 3, 2014 0:46:31 GMT -5
And if we just marched them out back and carried out the sentences as some want we would never know. Don't see how we keep it on the table when this happens as frequent as it does.
Thought one thing was funny- the GOP used one of their mugshots in a campaign ad
I say thank God there are people working these old cases for free pursuing real justice for folks society at large has cast off and forgotten about. the measure of the greatness of a society is the dignity it treats those who are deemed least worthy of it.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 3, 2014 1:17:26 GMT -5
And if we just marched them out back and carried out the sentences as some want we would never know. Don't see how we keep it on the table when this happens as frequent as it does.
Thought one thing was funny- the GOP used one of their mugshots in a campaign ad
I say thank God there are people working these old cases for free pursuing real justice for folks society at large has cast off and forgotten about. I also thank God for those people who keep digging until the truth is found. We are in agreement, EVT!
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Sept 3, 2014 19:10:19 GMT -5
" Joe Freeman Britt, the original prosecutor, told The News & Observer last week that he still believed the men were guilty."
For me , that the former prosecutor won't admit that he made a mistake is the real crime here or at least as much of a tragedy as the incarnation of the two brothers...
DNA of a neighboring man of the victem who had a history for these type of crimes...he still is unable to see the possibilities...I wonder how many others he was responsible for either incarcerating wrongly or as many being executed wrongly while he was a prosecutor...
"The two young defendants were prosecuted by the district attorney Joe Freeman Britt, a 6-foot-6, Bible-quoting lawyer who was later profiled by “60 Minutes” as the country’s “deadliest D.A.”
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Post by Shooby on Sept 3, 2014 19:29:52 GMT -5
Yet the possibility of killing an innocent in an abortion doesn't cross your minds.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 3, 2014 19:38:47 GMT -5
Yet the possibility of killing an innocent in an abortion doesn't cross your minds. This thread - and the topic - isn't about abortion though, is it? Why even drag that into the discussion?
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Sept 3, 2014 20:18:03 GMT -5
Yet the possibility of killing an innocent in an abortion doesn't cross your minds. Are you suggesting there are guilty fetuses? The arguments against one or the other are not comparable so don't derail the thread please.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 21:00:15 GMT -5
Yet the possibility of killing an innocent in an abortion doesn't cross your minds. The "abortion question" has no place in this thread. Please keep on topic. -Richard -Current Events Moderator
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Sept 9, 2014 13:02:29 GMT -5
And another false confession: news.yahoo.com/woman-granted-retrial-dna-evidence-1976-nevada-murder-023350172.html The judge reviewing the case was persuaded in part by DNA evidence recovered from a cigarette butt found lying next to Mitchell's body that tied her slaying to an Oregon prison inmate serving time for attempted murder in an unrelated case, Pusich said. The DNA also has linked the Oregon inmate to at least two of five unsolved killings in the San Francisco Bay Area known as the Gypsy Hill murders, which are currently being probed by an FBI task force, Pusich said. Pusich said Woods falsely admitted to the Mitchell killing while in a Louisiana mental hospital because she wanted a single room to herself. At Monday's hearing, the judge authorized Woods to be released from prison on her own recognizance to live with family members in California while she awaits the new trial, which was set to begin on July 13, 2015.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2014 13:08:16 GMT -5
And another false confession: news.yahoo.com/woman-granted-retrial-dna-evidence-1976-nevada-murder-023350172.html The judge reviewing the case was persuaded in part by DNA evidence recovered from a cigarette butt found lying next to Mitchell's body that tied her slaying to an Oregon prison inmate serving time for attempted murder in an unrelated case, Pusich said. The DNA also has linked the Oregon inmate to at least two of five unsolved killings in the San Francisco Bay Area known as the Gypsy Hill murders, which are currently being probed by an FBI task force, Pusich said. Pusich said Woods falsely admitted to the Mitchell killing while in a Louisiana mental hospital because she wanted a single room to herself. At Monday's hearing, the judge authorized Woods to be released from prison on her own recognizance to live with family members in California while she awaits the new trial, which was set to begin on July 13, 2015. it is time to look in the mirror and realize that, after you take into account DNA and false confessions, that capital punishment cases are no where NEAR perfect. putting someone innocent to death in a premeditated fashion is murder. who will pay the price for the crimes committed by the state? and do we REALLY want that blood on our hands, and those of our children?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Sept 9, 2014 13:34:02 GMT -5
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 9, 2014 13:41:43 GMT -5
how do you figure, Shooby? this is a sad case, certainly, but it's no worse than some other cases out there. I'm sorry she wasn't found alive, but IMHO there's still quite a bit of investigation to be done to determine who killed Ms Bobo. who exactly would you execute for this crime with what you know today?
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Post by Shooby on Sept 9, 2014 13:44:51 GMT -5
Oh, I agree. There are many, many MORE cases where the death penalty should absolutely apply. You take someone's life in that fashion. You forfeit yours.
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Post by Shooby on Sept 9, 2014 13:45:48 GMT -5
Sooo, how many murdered people then does it require? 2, 3, 20, 100?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 9, 2014 13:49:37 GMT -5
you and I are not going to agree on the death penalty, I'll just put that out there to start with. I'm personally against the death penalty. too many innocent people being released from prison on "newly found evidence" or because there was corruption involved in their convictions.
again though - who would you execute for this crime? they have charged two men, but is the case open and shut with the evidence gathered so far?
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2014 14:14:02 GMT -5
Oh, I agree. There are many, many MORE cases where the death penalty should absolutely apply. You take someone's life in that fashion. You forfeit yours. agreed. LWOPP is the appropriate penalty in such cases.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Sept 9, 2014 17:05:16 GMT -5
Well if they can't find out for sure who did it, maybe they can beat a few mentally challanged minorities with a phone book or keep 'em under the hot lamps for a day or two till they sign a confession like the good 'ole days. As long as the state kills someone for it is all that matters I guess
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2014 19:47:18 GMT -5
Well if they can't find out for sure who did it, maybe they can beat a few mentally challanged minorities with a phone book or keep 'em under the hot lamps for a day or two till they sign a confession like the good 'ole days. As long as the state kills someone for it is all that matters I guess if you think about it, nothing is more embarrassing to law enforcement than NOT getting a conviction. the tendency to sweep up dozens of marginal suspects and getting something to stick is very high. i am sure lots of mistakes have been made. LOTS. and lots will be made. so, let's just stop making people pay for those mistakes with their lives, shall we?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 20:10:27 GMT -5
I'm all for getting rid of the death penalty in cases where there's doubt or even the possibility of a coerced confession... but... in cases where the perp was caught red-handed (robbery, for example, caught doing the crime, including killing any victims they killed)? Sorry. Fry 'em, gas 'em, inject 'em, whatever... they killed, there is NO doubt it was them, their life is forfeit.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 9, 2014 20:11:47 GMT -5
I struggle with this daily. I struggle with the fact that LWOP doesn't end the killing. What do we do about those lifers who kill other inmates or prison guards? We can't give them any more. That is the one thing that keeps me from being completely opposed to the death penalty. Any answers I could live with? I know correctional officers personally. Their safety is important to me. How do we keep them out of harm's way if a lifer has nothing to lose?
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2014 20:40:23 GMT -5
I struggle with this daily. I struggle with the fact that LWOP doesn't end the killing. no, but it absolutely COULD. there is no reason it could not.What do we do about those lifers who kill other inmates or prison guards? you got me wondering: what is the mortality rate of prison guards for ALL criminals -vs- LWOPP and Death Row inmates? is it higher, lower, or the same? do you know? i could not find ANY data on it.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Sept 9, 2014 21:04:28 GMT -5
I'm all for getting rid of the death penalty in cases where there's doubt or even the possibility of a coerced confession... but... in cases where the perp was caught red-handed (robbery, for example, caught doing the crime, including killing any victims they killed)? Sorry. Fry 'em, gas 'em, inject 'em, whatever... they killed, there is NO doubt it was them, their life is forfeit. And I am on the same page with you- I have posted many times I will be fine with the death penalty just as soon as we raise the burden of proof from beyond a reasonable doubt to beyond all doubt.
Way too many people have been sent to death row based on weak circumstantial evidence, unreliable witnesses- and that is bad enough- but you want to throw in prosecutors and police that have narrowed in on someone damned the evidence to the contrary, and some of the tactics they have used or may still use and there is no way in hell anyone can confidence enough in the system to trust it to kill.
And to throw this out there because I am tired of hearing it- relating the facts of some horrific crime in order to argue for the death penalty is simply supporting another horrific crime by the state. Two wrongs........
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 9, 2014 21:25:35 GMT -5
I struggle with this daily. I struggle with the fact that LWOP doesn't end the killing. no, but it absolutely COULD. there is no reason it could not.What do we do about those lifers who kill other inmates or prison guards? you got me wondering: what is the mortality rate of prison guards for ALL criminals -vs- LWOPP and Death Row inmates? is it higher, lower, or the same? do you know? i could not find ANY data on it. I have no idea. No idea if it's higher or lower or what. I just know it happens. Regardless. What do you do with those people? Even if it's just one time - what do you do? Obviously, I know it's a chance you take being a correctional officer, just like a police officer or a fireman, etc. But what do you do with those inmates who have nothing to lose - nothing further you can take from them? Do we just allow them to keep killing? Usually, I'm not one to make a case out of the 1:1,000,000. This time, it's personal. Guess that's the way it is for everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 21:26:54 GMT -5
To be perfectly honest... I'd even be "for" the Death Penalty in cases where who the perp was is NOT in doubt, but there wasn't even a death... if the perp used a weapon that COULD have killed someone and THREATENED to use it.
Because... just because they didn't kill this time doesn't mean they won't the next time, AND we know they don't mind threatening to do so. (might cut down on violent crime if the criminals knew that even threatening to kill could cost your life).
I don't see that ever happening though.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 9, 2014 21:33:00 GMT -5
Oh dear, Richard. If we ever get to the place where we kill someone for what they MIGHT do, I'm moving! Did I misunderstand you?
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2014 21:41:59 GMT -5
you got me wondering: what is the mortality rate of prison guards for ALL criminals -vs- LWOPP and Death Row inmates? is it higher, lower, or the same? do you know? i could not find ANY data on it. I have no idea. No idea if it's higher or lower or what. I just know it happens. Regardless. What do you do with those people? Even if it's just one time - what do you do? Obviously, I know it's a chance you take being a correctional officer, just like a police officer or a fireman, etc. But what do you do with those inmates who have nothing to lose - nothing further you can take from them? Do we just allow them to keep killing? Usually, I'm not one to make a case out of the 1:1,000,000. This time, it's personal. Guess that's the way it is for everyone. i know. but here is my point: let's say that the murder rate of guards is 100x greater for those who are NOT death penalty cases. if that is the case, then there is no reason to treat DP cases as any different than the general population.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 21:42:13 GMT -5
Oh dear, Richard. If we ever get to the place where we kill someone for what they MIGHT do, I'm moving! Did I misunderstand you? Yes you did... and no you didn't (Yeah, I know... that clears EVERYTHING up... doesn't it? LOL) It's not about what they "might" do. It's about what they are WILLING to do. If you go into a store, with a gun, to rob it, you are willing to risk someone getting killed. It might even be by accident. But that doesn't matter to me... the perp risked it. Period. That's all I care about. Maybe, if the death penatly was enforced for being willing to risk innocent death, the perp would have thought about it and not been willing to risk it.
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