What exactly is a religion?

[The Captain]

I've always wondered what defines a religion and a religious figure as opposed to followers of a certain philosophy.

For examply -I doubt many here would deny that Judiasm and Christianity are considered religions.

But what about Buddhists?  Followers of Confucianism or even Wiccans?

Is having a group of people following a common belief system enough to establish a religion?  Or is there more involved.

If so, what?

(And, I know I don't need to say this but feel compelled for some odd reason to do so anyway - let's keep it civil peeps!)

[Deleted]

What I believe is a religion, everyone else is either a heathen, hippy or cult member

[Deleted]

Seriously I think a religion is a common belief system that is documented and defended. I guess you need to add that it centers around the existence of some form of deity or even atheism would be defined as a religion and they would get testy about that.

[ArchietheDragon]

global warming is a religion, according to many. 

[The Captain]

Aug 28, 2014 12:27:12 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

What I believe is a religion, everyone else is either a heathen, hippy or cult member

Later - thanks for chiming in.  Seriously - I know you're making light of the question (which is fine) but I'd appreciate it if you would expand upon your statement.

For example - most folks here know I'm Christian.  Yet, if you look at some of the stuff in the bible from as objective a perspective as possible you would see certain...warning signs in some of the behavior and sermons that isn't too different from what some of the current "cult" leaders are espousing.

I'm probably damned to hell seven ways for saying this, but if you pull pure faith out fo the equation and read some of Jesus' preachings - you'd think he was a certifiable nutjob if he did it during these modern times.

I think C.S. Lewis stated it best when he said of Jesus - he's either "Liar, lunatic, or Lord".  Ultimately it's up to the individual to decide, but what is the difference between a cult and a religion?  Another good point.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Off the top of my head, the difference between a cult and a religion is that members of a cult believe all of those outside their system of beliefs are evil.  I fully admit I'm pretty ignorant of cults and their ways, but that is what strikes me as the difference.

[ArchietheDragon]

I think the difference between a cult and religion is how the rest of society views you, not how you view yourself. 

[Deleted]

The Captain what do you think Jesus preached that was crazy? If you had said Paul I would be in complete agreement, he...I don't like him. But Jesus?

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2014 12:39:07 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Off the top of my head, the difference between a cult and a religion is that members of a cult believe all of those outside their system of beliefs are evil.  I fully admit I'm pretty ignorant of cults and their ways, but that is what strikes me as the difference.

I think a cult has complete control over it's members. No free thinking or free acting allowed under threat of severe penalty. There are times that Christianity is pushed into cult territory.

[NoNamePerson]

Aug 28, 2014 12:39:07 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Off the top of my head, the difference between a cult and a religion is that members of a cult believe all of those outside their system of beliefs are evil.  I fully admit I'm pretty ignorant of cults and their ways, but that is what strikes me as the difference.

Is that the same as some established/recognized religions think they are they only ones going to Heaven and everybody else is going to Hell?

[Green Eyed Lady]

Aug 28, 2014 13:00:34 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Aug 28, 2014 12:39:07 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Off the top of my head, the difference between a cult and a religion is that members of a cult believe all of those outside their system of beliefs are evil.  I fully admit I'm pretty ignorant of cults and their ways, but that is what strikes me as the difference.

Is that the same as some established/recognized religions think they are they only ones going to Heaven and everybody else is going to Hell?

I honestly can't speak to any other religion other than Christianity.  And what I think is I'm not the judge of who goes where so, no, it is not the same, IMO. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Aug 28, 2014 13:00:03 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Aug 28, 2014 12:39:07 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Off the top of my head, the difference between a cult and a religion is that members of a cult believe all of those outside their system of beliefs are evil.  I fully admit I'm pretty ignorant of cults and their ways, but that is what strikes me as the difference.

I think a cult has complete control over it's members. No free thinking or free acting allowed under threat of severe penalty. There are times that Christianity is pushed into cult territory.

I absolutely agree that Christianity can be pushed into that territory.  However, it's my opinion that when that happens, it can no longer be called Christianity.

Again, I'm totally ignorant of cults and their practices.  So it's opinion only.

[Deleted]

I absolutely agree that Christianity can be pushed into that territory. However, it's my opinion that when that happens, it can no longer be called Christianity.

See we don't get to do that. If they identify themselves as Christians, and everyone else does too, we don't get to say they aren't. I wish we did.

[The Captain]

Aug 28, 2014 12:57:24 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

The Captain what do you think Jesus preached that was crazy? If you had said Paul I would be in complete agreement, he...I don't like him. But Jesus?

Remember - we're pulling faith out of the equation.

Matthew 10:

10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

John 6:53-56

Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.

Now - almost any rambling of a madman can be call speaking in parables. Sometimes Jesus spoke literally, and as noted above, sometimes not. An argument can be made that it's convenient to say when he wasn't being literal (rational) is when he was using parables etc.

What David Koresh (IIRC) said wasn't much different.

[Deleted]

I don't find Matthew 10 crazy, he is just honestly explaining the repercussions of following his teachings. On the other hand, if John 6:53-56 isn't an analogy it is totally nuts. Considering he called the wine his blood and the bread his flesh at the last supper I feel pretty confidant he was taking poetic license with the blood and body talk.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Aug 28, 2014 13:14:14 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I absolutely agree that Christianity can be pushed into that territory. However, it's my opinion that when that happens, it can no longer be called Christianity.

See we don't get to do that. If they identify themselves as Christians, and everyone else does too, we don't get to say they aren't. I wish we did.

Sure we do.  It's an opinion.  For instance those people at Westboro?  They aren't Christians.  I don't care what they call themselves.  I know far less than everything about Christianity but I know true Christians don't behave that way and I get to say it.  Some might disagree and they get to do that, too.  That is in no way a judgment of what happens to them after this world because I don't know and it's not my place to say. 

[damnotagain]

Matthew 18:20New International Version (NIV)

" For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

This always summed it up for me. Be it a Buddhist , Hindu, Islam or Christianity even a snake handling church once in a while. Wherever you find peace is fine with me .

Two is a good number . More just blur your own vision.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I think a cult has complete control over it's members. No free thinking or free acting allowed under threat of severe penalty. There are times that Christianity is pushed into cult territory.

You just described some strict Muslim or Islam religions - many are not allowed free-thinking under threat of penalty.

Catholic religion is also (depending on the diocese) very strict on restrictions.

The Catholic religion (as a whole) doesn't even recognize the New Testament books as gospel.

The "Bible" over the centuries, has gone though many interpretations, translations, changes and editing. Original manuscripts are lost and it's basically handed-down pieces of lore that have been edited and put into a manuscript which has been modified and changed over the decades/centuries.

What one person reads and interprets in the passages, may not be what someone else interprets.

There were also other more ancient religions on this planet long before Christianity. Buddhism for example was being practiced at least 500+ years BC - and still is today.

I'm 100% in support of freedom of religion - and I find that Christians who claim that Christianity is the ONLY true religion, aren't practicing as a Christian.

One of the Christian mottos is to "Love Thy Neighbor" - your neighbor may very well be a Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Native American who worships the elements, or even Wiccan.

I think the first lesson in ANY religion is tolerance of other religions and beliefs.



.

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2014 12:25:07 GMT -5 The Captain said:

I've always wondered what defines a religion and a religious figure as opposed to followers of a certain philosophy.

For examply -I doubt many here would deny that Judiasm and Christianity are considered religions.

But what about Buddhists?  Followers of Confucianism or even Wiccans?

I think philosophies tend to be ways of seeing the world or ethical guidelines based on debate/consideration, and they usually focus on the current world.   Utilitarianism, hedonism, spartanism, they seem to define ways of interacting with the world based on ideas of what is right or good.  I think they tend have broad based stated goals for people to follow, rather sets of daily rules. 

Religions to me seem to incorporate a heavier emphasis on the currently unseen or unknowable, and tend to involve reward/punishment components based on conduct.   I think religions tend to include more specific rules and ceremonies for daily life in order to achieve goodness.


That's generally how I view it anyway.  I do get the impression that people can follow religions as more of a philosophy, or follow philosophies in a religious manner.

[truthbound]

A religion is when someone someone follows the teachings of an imaginary unverified deity.

[Angel!]

Aug 28, 2014 12:25:07 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Is having a group of people following a common belief system enough to establish a religion?  Or is there more involved.

If so, what?

I think there has to be more.  Otherwise science, evolution, global warming, atheism, etc are all religions.  I have known Christians that claim science is a religion & I just follow a different faith than them. 

I disagree because I don't see science as faith.  So maybe religion is a something that requires faith and a common belief system with a group of people.

Interesting topic