swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 28, 2014 13:06:23 GMT -5
You're up a huge creek without a paddle. Can you support yourself and your sons if you had to? Because if I were being treated that way, I'd take my children and go elsewhere and let him deal with his family. Will your mom take you in? No wonder his family is disrespectful, he is disrespectful. Cultural my ass. That's the excuse DFs son in law uses for being a lazy disinterested parent. Because his parents, South Africans, sent him to boarding school. Well, jerkoff, this ain't South Africa and your kids live with you. Be a frickin parent to them. BINGO!!!! That was my reaction too.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 28, 2014 13:07:03 GMT -5
If you decide to stay being crapped on, I wouldn't worry about hurting them at all. Buy your kids whatever you want. Maybe if moochers get passed, they'll leave. Doubtful but you might get lucky.
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Annie7
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Post by Annie7 on Aug 28, 2014 13:27:24 GMT -5
Your mom is doing this to be nice? Her lack of spine has filtered down, I see. If I saw my daughter being used and disrespected, I'd be putting ex lax in their food if I cooked for them. It wouldn't get that far. I'm amazed its gone this far. You, like a PP said, have way more serious problems than Christmas. .
I agree with whoever said that I shouldn't be having my Mom cook for all these people. I tell her to not invite them for lunch. They can eat when they want. She feels bad and calls them. She is learning to NOT do that, but it takes time to get over the need to show common courtesy. However, these people don't deserve it. She is learning.
Today, I have told Mom to make extra when she's cooking. This evening I'll tell them that they need to cook lunch tomorrow. Mom can eat the leftovers from today and not cook tomorrow. I will manage on my own with leftovers or make something for myself. DH can do what he wants. That way it's not affecting us, but they are doing some work even if it's just for themselves.
The issue with many of these things are that "I" am not seeing these personally since I am working upstairs in my bedroom while Mom is down cooking. If I say something to SIL it will be that Mom is telling tales. There is also the issue that they are not careful with how they cook/clean. Apparently SIL when she does cook (hasn't in a couple of weeks now), she turns on the stove and heats up the pot. Then she starts getting things ready to cook. The pot overheats and gets damaged with continuous use like this. Atleast put in some oil or something to soak up the heat and don't start until you have things ready. Washing the pots - the water is running all the time. I tell her to load the dishwasher, but she prefers to wash by hand. Too much oil and salt is used while cooking and the portions are very less. We cannot eat that kind of food for more than one meal.
Do I point out every single thing like this and tell them to change? Then I come across as a whiner and someone who doesn't adjust (I already have that title from my MIL from when she lived with us for 7 years). While I don't care what SIL thinks, she will spread rumors to everyone in our community back home. She is very capable of saying I treated her like a slave and made her do my cooking and cleaning. I don't even care much about that since I rarely go back. But it will make the tension in the home worse than it is now.
For now, I think what I want is for them to get jobs and move out so that they are no longer our responsibility. I cannot change DH's mind that he wants them here. He wants to give them a year and then if they can't hack it here (nephew with school or SIL/Niece with work) then they can go back. So, I will put up with this for the sake of my marriage. One good thing coming out of this is the DH is realizing how much better I am than SIL even though she's older than me. I am much more responsible, practical, organized and charitable
Boy, did this topic veer from Christmas My sons are great kids and will understand whatever I do. They do understand adjusting to changed circumstances and are doing that. They show respect to their aunt and cousins. They have nothing in common so they don't have long dialogs. DS2 has been helping nephew with how to do his summer assignments since he's just a year younger. He has talked to them about how school works in US, how to behave, etc. But he does not play much with nephew since maturity-wise they are 4-5 years apart inspite of being only 10 months apart. And no, I would not tolerate behavior like SIL's from them and they know it I'm a very strict mom (with many fails of course).
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snapdragon
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Post by snapdragon on Aug 28, 2014 13:33:55 GMT -5
I think you need to give them a deadline for moving out. but it sounds like your DH is part of the problem so you're going to need to decide what you want to do if he doesn't get on board.
This is it in a nutshell. Without him onboard, I am stuck unless I give ultimatums. DH is the kind who wants to help everyone around him. However, he won't do the actual work. He has all the great ideas, I have to bring them to fruition. And I don't get acknowledged for doing that. Rather I'm criticized for not having the ideas in the first place.
DH's family is dysfunctional. They don't communicate well. Everyone hides things from one another and has secrets. SIL claims she didn't know of any of the plans until BIL told her a few months before coming here that she would be staying here. I can kind-of believe that since DH wouldn't discuss anything with me either until a couple of months before they arrived. SIL claims BIL gives all the money to FIL/MIL so she wants to live off of BIL's money here and not work. I can kind of understand that since DH is also the same way. If there is money saved he'll send it to his parents while I am living with old appliances, flooring, etc.
From the beginning I was cautioning DH that it would take them well into Feb before they got jobs. DH would yell at me that I was being negative, that they would get jobs within a month or two. I was the one who would ask him what are the plans for their arrival, stay, etc. I was told he doesn't know and can't plan everything. That they are accommodating and will go with the flow. DH and BIL were focused on getting a low income house as the priority. I pointed out that a car was the first priority. In NJ you can't get anywhere without a car. So, if they want to get jobs, they need a car. We can't be driving them around all the time. Finally they accepted that. They are waiting for the SSN to get a license and then buy a car. While I'd love to get them out of our house, if "I" have to pay their rent, for now, I'd rather they get jobs first and support themselves.
Regarding giving them a deadline - DH feels responsible and wants nephew to have a good education. So, he wants them to stay here in US. If I insist on them moving out, we'll be paying the rent. DH will say that with the exchange rate of 1:60 BIL will not be able to afford paying for it. BIL can rent out the house they lived in since he's anyway staying with his parents now. But I guess I am small minded for pointing that out and not allowing nephew and niece to have a better future. I had brought up all these questions even before they arrived in US. But was shut down.
I guess if DH was more on my side, I wouldn't feel so frustrated. He also works from home (we are both in IT). He just rides rough-shed over them and walks away. No one stands up to him like I do so he gets annoyed with me. He doesn't realize that all his relatives pretend to agree with him to manipulate him and do what they want behind his back. He is frustrated with them too, but as a man it does not affect him like it does me.
I have to drive my DS2 around to and from his soccer practices. I carpool, but even with that, I have to do these things during work hours (school has no consideration for working parents - practices are from 11 am - 1pm). Luckily my manager is flexible enough that he allows me to do this. But now, I have to drive these three people around for their appointments too. DH seems to think that I'm the primary and if I cannot he will do it. I tell him he's the primary, they are his relatives first and only if he can't I will. But it's very frustrating when he doesn't seem to have any time for me or my concerns but pushes all these on me.
To add a very big twist to this - DH also ended his contract last week and is looking for a new job. So, currently I'm the only one working. I have full confidence he'll find something in a month or so. I'm not worried about that. He was anyway paid on a 2 month backlog basis, so he'll have money coming in for the next couple of months. He's now considering jobs all over US. I had told him earlier that since it would be only DS2 I would have to shuttle around, I was ok with it. Now, with these three people, I just told him I couldn't handle it. He said he'll have them take a taxi. I told him they wouldn't pay for it. He says he'll get better salary elsewhere and then he can pay for the taxi Why doesn't he understand that it would mean there's no incentive for SIL to get her license and drive? How many of these things do I fight with DH about? He doesn't even have time to talk to me about essential things that impact me/our sons. He claims he is studying for interviews/networking/finding them jobs, etc. Essentially, my job/my needs have less priority than his.
I WILL be talking to SIL this weekend and have her do some work around the house. Wish me luck. I will have to live with this situation for the next few months. I have to do restart the "start as you mean to go on" thing and set expectations.
I would be beyond stressed about this. And VERY ticked off about the passive aggressive attitude from my spouse. It almost sounds like a "free fire zone" at your place. Maybe you and your Mom need to take a holiday and not cook for anyone.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 28, 2014 13:37:17 GMT -5
It would be WWIII in my house if my DH dismissed me like that, especially if I am the only one working.
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Aug 28, 2014 14:03:03 GMT -5
It would be WWIII in my house if my DH dismissed me like that, especially if I am the only one working. This. Have you read the book Boundaries by Henry Cloud? If not, find a copy and read it - it can help you set up boundaries for yourself in dealing with those who take advantage of you. There is also no way I'd be willing to pay for anything extra for SIL or niece as they're both able-bodied adults who can get jobs. I probably would do what I could for nephew, but also set down the expectation with him that I'm willing to treat him like I do my sons, but he has to do the similar chores, responsibilities, etc. as sons, and that working hard at school is part of that responsibility.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Aug 28, 2014 14:20:42 GMT -5
We sponsored my Husband's aunt and Uncle and their 5? children.
The Uncle and oldest cousin were here about a year ahead of the rest of the family. Uncle and oldest cousin spoke some english. FIL got Uncle a job where he worked. I am not sure were cousin worked then, but eventually the cousins started working with my BIL's.
They initially lived with my MIL but as you are fining my MIL was stressed out to the max when they all lived with her. I think she also felt that she was waiting on them. My DH came home and said I need to buy a house for my Aunt and Uncle to live in or my Mother is going to have a nervous breakdown.
DH found a nice Single family house but Aunt and Uncle didn't really like it, so he talked to one of his brothers and asked if he wanted to live in it. We bought it and my BIL moved in...(It was a great deal). Then withing a month or two we bought a duplex and the family moved to that house as tenants. They eventually moved on and bought a different house- but were mad at us b/c they felt we should have sold them the house for what we paid. They are a little cold unfriendly to us, but it is probably more family/individual personalities than anything. They all work, even DH's aunt. DH tried to hire their Daughter in his office, but he had to fire her b/c all she did was text her friends all day long. She does have another job now though.
If you can at all afford it you might want to buy a rental property they can live in, or you might want to get them an apartment so they don't live with you.
My husband's aunt works at a place where they make deli salads. His uncle worked at a metal coating facotry, then was laid off. He got a job at a meatpacking plant. One cousin works in a recycling plant - is well thought of, I think he is a manager or team leader. Two other cousins work in construction, one is said to be an extremely talented carpenter. The daughter has a job, youngest should graduate from HS this year.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Aug 28, 2014 14:35:01 GMT -5
You know what lazy cheap ass people have a reputation that follows them around. I would bet money that they are know to be lazy and cheap back home and they have probably taken advantage of people back home too.
Do not worry about what other people think. Do what is right for your family.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 28, 2014 14:36:48 GMT -5
You need to make sure that putting up with this doesn't ruin your marriage. You were stuck with his parents for 7 years and they were treating you similarly. You really think he'll stick with his year and out plan? From what you've typed her I'd say no.
Personally, in your position I would be telling him you guys need to go to marriage counseling.
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Annie7
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Post by Annie7 on Aug 28, 2014 14:40:05 GMT -5
If you can at all afford it you might want to buy a rental property they can live in, or you might want to get them an apartment so they don't live with you. Bean,
This was one of my DH's plans. However, I'm not keen on this because I know my DH. He is not handy at all. In our home, I am the one who puts together things like from Ikea. I put up curtains in the bedrooms. He needs a very long time to do things and needs everyone around him catering to every little thing if he does any work like this. So, if we buy a rental, we'll have to get someone to do the handyman stuff. DH is not open to spending money either.
For example, just before the inlaws came, I wanted to repair two of our bathrooms so we (4 of us + my mom) could use them while the inlaws used the one on the first floor. DH was not keen on it because it would be spending money. He thought it was fine as it was. The house is 15 years old and the fixtures were old. Grout was missing around the tub and shower. The faucets were leaking. The master bathroom had started to have some mold. I insisted and he agreed finally to get it done. By the time the two baths were fixed, DH was frustrated. Same thing happened with finishing our basement. He got very frustrated even though I was the one doing a lot of the running around finding fixtures, paint, cabinets, etc. He does not do well with doing detailed work. He is great at thinking high level.
So, while rental is a great idea, based on my DH's personality of not wanting to spend money and not capable of doing it himself, it's not a good idea for us.
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jeep108
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Post by jeep108 on Aug 28, 2014 14:49:35 GMT -5
I only had to deal with my BIL for a month. Bless your heart. I feel for you. Dealing with family that doesn't want to help themselves is not fun. At least after a month my husband could see that my BIL wasn't doing anything to help himself and kicked him out. In my BIL case he was working, we only had him buying his own food. He spent all his money at the strip club, casino and on drugs. When my husband found out he hadn't saved a dime he kicked him out. I kept telling him that all we were at the time was his enabler. My husband at least got to say he tried to help his family out.
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Annie7
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Post by Annie7 on Aug 28, 2014 14:59:45 GMT -5
You need to make sure that putting up with this doesn't ruin your marriage. You were stuck with his parents for 7 years and they were treating you similarly. You really think he'll stick with his year and out plan? From what you've typed her I'd say no. Personally, in your position I would be telling him you guys need to go to marriage counseling. Justme,
You are right to doubt his word. However, I've grown a spine since then. And another point in my favor - he doesn't like SIL. He thinks her flighty, mean minded, impractical and liar. So, he doesn't want her here much longer either. But, he thinks his brother is the best ever who is saddled with this woman. So, for his sake and the sake of the children he wants to do this. I think there are issues on both sides. SIL didn't become like this in a vacuum. I know how FIL/MIL behave. Based on that and the little interaction I've had with BIL, I do think he has to take nearly half the blame.
I have been more vocal in telling DH what I will and will not put up with. I have the ability to support myself, my sons and mom by myself. My manager is very supportive and will give me the adjustment space/time if I have to separate. I have a good support system in place. I no longer feel the need to shield the kids. They are old enough to understand and learn to deal with dysfunction. It'll be a learning experience for them too to see me stand up to them. I have been telling them as appropriate the things that are not right.
Also, these are able bodied young folks, unlike his parents. So, my expectations of SIL is different from that of my MIL/FIL. Just a FYI - MIL/FIL ran a daycare out of our home when they lived here. So, they were earning some money. The money never came to us which is a different story. We paid for all their expenses and even sometimes food for the children they looked after, but we didn't get any of the daycare money. If FIL/MIL could do something to earn money, these folks can do it too.
So, I WILL speak up and tell DH that they need to go if it becomes unbearable.
We did go to marriage counseling a few years ago. She thought DH had borderline PD. But I didn't like the way she would tell me to lie to DH to keep him calm. I don't work that way. So, we stopped. I don't think DH knows about that diagnosis. Right now, even with all the disrespect I mentioned, DH has improved tremendously from before (I know it sounds like I'm saying he now only beats me once a day instead of every hour). Maybe he's mellowing with age - who knows.
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nogooddeed
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Post by nogooddeed on Aug 28, 2014 15:13:02 GMT -5
If I understand this correctly, your DH doesn't want to spend money on you/your house, but willingly gives money to his relatives. Sister, you need to say "no effing way". He also opens your home as a dorm for said relatives for years at a time while they treat you like shit. Again, you need to say "no effing way". A come to Jesus talk is definitely in order for you and DH. Set limits and if he exceeds those limits, he and his relatives, find a new place to live. Seriously, is the way you're living worth putting up with this for much longer? Before the relatives moved in, how was your marriage?
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Aug 28, 2014 15:28:31 GMT -5
We sponsored my Husband's aunt and Uncle and their 5? children. The Uncle and oldest cousin were here about a year ahead of the rest of the family. Uncle and oldest cousin spoke some english. FIL got Uncle a job where he worked. I am not sure were cousin worked then, but eventually the cousins started working with my BIL's. They initially lived with my MIL but as you are fining my MIL was stressed out to the max when they all lived with her. I think she also felt that she was waiting on them. My DH came home and said I need to buy a house for my Aunt and Uncle to live in or my Mother is going to have a nervous breakdown. DH found a nice Single family house but Aunt and Uncle didn't really like it, so he talked to one of his brothers and asked if he wanted to live in it. We bought it and my BIL moved in...(It was a great deal). Then withing a month or two we bought a duplex and the family moved to that house as tenants. They eventually moved on and bought a different house- but were mad at us b/c they felt we should have sold them the house for what we paid. They are a little cold unfriendly to us, but it is probably more family/individual personalities than anything. They all work, even DH's aunt. DH tried to hire their Daughter in his office, but he had to fire her b/c all she did was text her friends all day long. She does have another job now though. If you can at all afford it you might want to buy a rental property they can live in, or you might want to get them an apartment so they don't live with you. My husband's aunt works at a place where they make deli salads. His uncle worked at a metal coating facotry, then was laid off. He got a job at a meatpacking plant. One cousin works in a recycling plant - is well thought of, I think he is a manager or team leader. Two other cousins work in construction, one is said to be an extremely talented carpenter. The daughter has a job, youngest should graduate from HS this year. OP has already said that buyng another home or renting an apartment for the relatives is not possible. I would have a family meeting and explain that chores are expected from everyone. Everyone over 18 is expected to work and contribute to the family's food and household expenses. Your mother is already working by cooking for everyone. The others should be working outside the home even if all they can do is to find work cleaning houses within walking distance. Let them know that taxi service will not continue indefinitely and they need to consider saving for their own car and insurance. Explain to SIL that the using the stove, running the water, and using hot water all cost money and you need to conserve especially with DH out of work. I would make make a stocking for the nephew, it's not his fault that any of this is happening. I would give him some inexpensive gifts. He knows you are not his parents and does not expect the same things that you would give to your children.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 28, 2014 15:30:42 GMT -5
(to Sroo's comment) I can't think of a good reason why a therapist would advise you to lie to your spouse. I would definitely be getting another therapist if you go to counseling again.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 15:41:13 GMT -5
Wow! I am sorry but your husband sounds just like another douchecanoe!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 28, 2014 16:04:39 GMT -5
You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. DFs former stepdaughter is married to an abuser, too. She feels she deserves it. She'd rather be married to satan than be alone. So be it. When the OP wants real help and is ready to get it, she will.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Aug 28, 2014 20:18:52 GMT -5
Your husband is the one who needs to step in to this mess and fix it. Tell your husband they need to be gone by Nov 1 or you will not be home until they are gone. Mean while tell your mother she doesn't need to cook meals unless she wants to. Take your mother out to lunch or just microwave something.
Have your husband explain to the family that you can't handle so many people in the house, nothing against them but you can't do it. Have him ask them to help with chores to relieve you and your mother. He can make you the weak one who needs babied. Then if they still don't land jobs and move out, you take your mother and find an apartment, leave the children with DH and family, SIL and her kids can help run the household. She has a 22 yo what is she doing? If she runs water when you tell her not to our runs up other bills tell them they need to pay for the extra cost and replace any pans they ruin. Buy cheap pans and store any you want to keep away from her.
You need to put your foot down with your husband and him with his family. By Christmas everything will change if you start acting now. I would gift your children what you want for them to have and the guest minor boy a decent toy or two or gift cards, 22 year old and mother work clothing, or interview clothing if you are with them at Christmas.
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Annie7
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Post by Annie7 on Aug 29, 2014 11:13:25 GMT -5
Sroo,
Thanks for this. Yes, there are cultural aspects that are difficult to explain. I am trying to change the status quo.
I told DH today that I was not free to pick them up from their appointment. He dropped them off. They came back in a taxi that they paid for. Per my coaching, Mom is not cooking today and I asked SIL to cook. I will ask her to load the dishwasher after lunch too. We did not invite them to dinner last night. They had their room door open until just before dinner time and then they closed it. Not our problem. Once done, I just told them from outside their door that the food was on the island and to put them away after they ate. Apparently they didn't eat any dinner. Next time, I'll put them all back in the fridge and they can eat/not.
Regarding why I can't agree with DH to his face and do what I want - sorry, that's not me. If I say I'll do something, I do it. I will not placate him that way. If what he says is not right, I will not agree.
Toomuchreality,
I am trying not to enable them but to just help them. However, if the mental cost of having them do something is more than my tolerance, I would rather they not do it even if it appears to enable them. Hope that makes sense. My DH on the other hand does not seem to understand the difference between the two. I've tried to teach him the difference but he doesn't want to know.
Nephew is a very immature 13 year old (I have 2 boys so I know what I'm speaking of). SIL and niece cater to him and infantilize him. We (DH, my Mom and I) refuse to do so. He points to what he wants rather than asking for it. If it's one of us, we have him ask for it; they just give him what he pointed to. Apparently he had some issues back home in school which they say made him shy and reserved. He tattled on some classmates and he was bullied by them and the teacher he complained to was also not pleased with him. The issue was nothing which impacted nephew, so he shouldn't have tattled (the kids were eating something in class when they weren't supposed to be eating). He does not listen to his mom or sis and does not seem to respect his mom. I wouldn't tolerate the attitude from my sons and they know it. We have all tried to tell him to not disrespect his mother, but if she doesn't correct it, we cannot persist in that. He's ultimately not our child. He tries to shirk his studies. I see him idling away. My DS2 also idles away his time, but I know he will do his chores/studies. So I don't hound my son. I feel it's not my place to hound nephew when he is not studying. He is also average in studies though they think he's good. Kind of a "big fish in a little pond" mentality. There are three levels of math offered in 8th grade. They (and us based on what they told us) were expecting him to test into the highest level. Instead, based on the test he was offered the lowest level. He had a written test this morning to see if he scored less because the first one was computer based and he wasn't used to it. We'll see if he atleast makes it to the main-stream level. In short, he's a nice enough kid who can become a good kid with proper guidance.
TCU2003,
I did read the Boundaries book years ago when MIL/FIL were staying with us. I need to reread it again. I should be better able to establish boundaries now that my sons are older and they won't be as affected.
Again, thanks for your replies.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Aug 29, 2014 12:11:06 GMT -5
Cultural aspects is a cop out. There are cultural aspects regarding women in the middle east that are bullshit. If people want to use it as an excuse, that is up to them but don't bitch about your situation if you aren't willing to stand up for yourself.
I'd throw all the adult freeloaders out, but would be willing to house the minors as long as they understood the rules for my kids apply to them as well.
My husband wouldn't get squat from me if he didn't back me up either, but no way would I put up with any of this crap.
My husband floated the idea of moving my MIL into our house which was met with a NFW. That was the end of it. I will not be miserable in my own home. While I was willing to accommodate helping her move closer to some extent, it wasn't going to be on our dime or at the expense of my peace.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 29, 2014 12:13:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 12:37:15 GMT -5
Cultural aspects is a cop out. There are cultural aspects regarding women in the middle east that are bullshit. I agree. In one of my business trips to India, I had a driver who was more talkative than the others (and more willing to share his opinions). I mentioned that my husband was retired and did all the cooking and cleaning. He said, "Men would never do that in India". I asked why, since plenty of women (including some of my female co-workers there) had demanding, high-power jobs. He said, "it's cultural". I didn't argue with him (I was, after all, a visitor in his country), but my inward reaction was, "it's that men don't want to take on extra housework in return for their wives contributing to the household income and 'cultural' is a handy excuse."
One thought which hasn't been expressed so far: think of the example you're setting for your sons. Do you really want them to think that women should put up with whatever demands are made on them? Would you want them to treat your future daughters-in-law that way? (Would they find women that compliant in the US, even among your ethnic group?) If you find it difficult standing up to your husband and in-laws, remember you need to set a good example for your sons and nephew.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 29, 2014 12:40:33 GMT -5
My response to the cultural thing would be then you're free to go back home and practice your "culture" all you want because MY culture doesn't include putting up with mooching in-laws and a husband who dismisses me at every turn.
People can learn to adapt/change if they want to. Your DH and his family clear do not want to adapt and you've taught them it's perfectly acceptable to hide behind their "culture" while they do it.
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Annie7
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Post by Annie7 on Aug 29, 2014 14:06:05 GMT -5
Athena,
Actually, yes, I do find women as compliant or more in my ethnic community here in the US. And we are all well educated (engineers like DH and me) and hold good positions in our jobs. I understand it's difficult to comprehend.
As far as my sons go and the example I'm setting - I do believe DH has a personality disorder. He is a self absorbed person too, I grant you that. I tell my sons that their wife will not be as compliant as I am. That they have to cater to their wives and respect them. I tell them how it hurts me the way their dad treats me (as age appropriate as possible) and tell them that I don't want their wives to feel the same way. I teach them to be more aware of their surroundings, aware of the feelings of others. I think I've done a good job there. They read social cues way better than DH. They know when they are being manipulated, when someone is saying a white lie, etc. They have tried to discuss things with their dad and realize that in some things he is immovable and irrational. There is no winning with him. So, they don't agree but don't get into a discussion with him on those subjects. Now, it's possible that they don't take to heart what I've told them but see what I've put up with and mimic their dad. I can't predict the future. My concern is that they will go the other extreme and in order to not cause their wife any grief, they will put up with whatever she says. Time will tell.
Drama,
When DH and I are both from the same culture, how do I say "it's not my culture"? It IS my culture. I have argued with DH that he is a hypocrite. He wants someone modern, but his actual actions dictate that he expects his wife to be a traditional wife. He wants the money I bring in but not willing to take half the house-hold chores.
He was brought up in a very dysfunctional home. He kind of crawled out of that and has done better than his family. However, his childhood, along with his personality disorder, combined, makes him unaware of how he is hurting others. That does not mean I put up with it silently. I point out almost every single time what he's doing wrong. That's why he does not want to talk to me. He knows I will point out the inconsistencies and will not let it go.
All the things folks have pointed out, I have told him many times. I did not take more drastic actions because maybe my "abuse" tolerance is higher. I also wanted the kids to have me on their side. It is much easier to endure and protect my sons than divorce and have them live part-time with DH and his parents. Then my sons would have been replicas of DH and his brother. By staying in the marriage I have been able to keep his parents away for 7 years and even protect them when FIL/MIL were living with us. If I hadn't fought and kept my kids close to me and away from them, MIL would have taken over and sowed sibling rivalry, taught them to lie, etc.
And don't say the court could have given me sole custody. It wouldn't have happened. I went to a lawyer and discussed it at the height of drama when MIL/FIL were with us. There was no overt physical/mental abuse. There was nothing to show DH was an abusive dad, rather he would take them to their sports and activities and was a great dad on the outside. DH was/is a very involved dad. It's just that he can not understand that not everyone is the same, that they could have differing opinions, etc. He felt/feels that he knows what's best for the kids. So, it's his duty to educate them and have them follow that path. So, no court would have give me sole custody or even supervised visits for him. He would have moved in his parents to look after the kids while he would be oblivious in his studies/work/do-good work. The kids would be the ones suffering.
So, yes, I put up with the abuse. I will continue for the next 4 years atleast until DS2 is out of the house and into college. Then, we'll see. In the meantime, I will continue to speak up. It might not change DH's actions. However, I will only do what I want to do. I am in a much more confident place right now. As long as I have my job, I can survive and thrive if I divorce him. That shows in my attitude and hence DH is much more mellow towards me now. He knows I can and will leave him if things get too bad.
For example, just last week there was a situation. They (BIL and DH) were discussing having MIL come out to stay with SIL when they have their own apartment to help take care of nephew. SIL and MIL are like oil and water or I should say oil and fire - they hate each other. Everyone knows that. So, I don't know why these two were even floating that idea. I told DH that if MIL comes here and if she and SIL did not get along, MIL was NOT moving into my house. I will not live with her anymore. DH didn't argue and agreed that she won't live with us.
Regarding supporting SIL/niece/nephew - I will endure them until Feb/Mar. I need to feel I gave them a fair chance. I want to have a clear conscience that I did not stand in the way of my nephew having a better future. I'm doing it for me. And how I treat them when they are in my house - they will not be treated as guests. I will also not give them free rein in the house like I've given my mom. They don't deserve it and won't be appreciative, rather they'll take advantage. So, I'll have them do the sous-chef part but not the chef role. I am the alpha-female in this house and I will continue to be that.
Someone said to send the adults away and keep nephew. Sorry, I'm not big hearted enough to raise a child who is not my own. I am enjoying the freedom that comes with having older kids and am looking forward to the freedom that'll come when DS2 is gone to college. And with nephew's immaturity, I am not willing to deal with that. Its his parents' responsibility to raise him. I'm not doing it. If it makes me a bad person - so be it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 14:17:40 GMT -5
And don't say the court could have given me sole custody. It wouldn't have happened. I went to a lawyer and discussed it at the height of drama when MIL/FIL were with us. There was no overt physical/mental abuse. There was nothing to show DH was an abusive dad, rather he would take them to their sports and activities and was a great dad on the outside. DH was/is a very involved dad. It's just that he can not understand that not everyone is the same, that they could have differing opinions, etc. He felt/feels that he knows what's best for the kids. So, it's his duty to educate them and have them follow that path. So, no court would have give me sole custody or even supervised visits for him.
Well, it's different now. They were younger. The court will consider the wishes of a 14-year old and with your 19-year old there's no custody issue at all. No court can dictate where he lives. (I'm not a lawyer but this is my understanding. Maybe the lawyers here will be able to give you a better opinion.) I hurt for you because I spent 13 years in a marriage with a husband who was lazy (unemployed for the last 5 years), mentally ill and wouldn't consider my needs. His flaws are different from your husband's, but I know what it's like to live like a doormat. In my case, I got out with DS, who was 12, and his Dad never fought me for custody, which was a blessing. Life improved immensely after that and DS is now 29 with a wonderful wife and a baby daughter. I am convinced that the fact that my second marriage was healthy and supportive made a huge difference with him. Talk to a lawyer again. No one should have to put up with your current situation, especially since you have the means to support yourself and your sons.
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Annie7
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Post by Annie7 on Aug 29, 2014 14:30:22 GMT -5
Athena,
Thanks for the kind words. I had tears in my eyes. I am sorry you had to endure 13 years of bad marriage.
Based on what I've read, you are right - DS2 will be given the choice and most probably choose to live with me. However, the kids don't have an ongoing feud with their dad. DH is good at thinking of the future and coming up with opportunities to help them succeed in their wishes. I do not have that vision. I am more pragmatic/practical. It's only problematic when both their wishes are not the same. As it is their interaction is for a short period each day. Even I don't see DS2 all that much - he's involved in his soccer, studies, friends and play. So, why put DS2 with the agony of choosing who to live with and carry guilt that he abandoned his father?
Maybe I'm making excuses, but life is not unbearable enough for me to leave (or make DH leave) and uproot DS2. I will try to put up with this for the next 4 years and then re-evaluate.
Again, thanks for your words and empathy. I'm glad you found joy with your DH2
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 29, 2014 15:02:02 GMT -5
Hugs. Part way through this thread I wondered if you were of the same culture. Thanks for clarifying. I'm sorry this is has gotten so out of hand. Has your husband changed into this since you married or was he like this to begin with? Is it possible for him to return to place of treating you as true partner or has he not ever been that way?
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