swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Aug 26, 2014 16:16:47 GMT -5
Anyone ever heard of this movement? Basically, they refuse to acknowledge the laws of the US and refuse to follow court orders.
I just had the opportunity to deal with one thru work.
How does one reconcile their denial of government powers while living in public housing, receiving food stamps, WIC for the kids, Medicaid, and having a public defender?
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Aug 26, 2014 16:19:32 GMT -5
Anyone ever heard of this movement? Basically, they refuse to acknowledge the laws of the US and refuse to follow court orders. I just had the opportunity to deal with one thru work. How does one reconcile their denial of government powers while living in public housing, receiving food stamps, WIC for the kids, Medicaid, and having a public defender? I have. They refuse to pay taxes, traffic tickets, fines, etc., based on their sovereign beliefs. I'd say they are selectively sovereign when it comes to parting with their own money vs. taking it from the rest of us.
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DagnyT
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Post by DagnyT on Aug 26, 2014 16:21:00 GMT -5
It's not their fault, and it's owed to them. Or at least that's what they probably think.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 26, 2014 16:23:40 GMT -5
Anyone ever heard of this movement? Basically, they refuse to acknowledge the laws of the US and refuse to follow court orders. I just had the opportunity to deal with one thru work. How does one reconcile their denial of government powers while living in public housing, receiving food stamps, WIC for the kids, Medicaid, and having a public defender? I have. Locally, and in not a good way for two West Memphis police officers. For your viewing pleasure-but be warned-these killings (captured on video) are cold blooded.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 26, 2014 16:24:43 GMT -5
You read about these types in tax protest cases all the time. They've been around for years.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 26, 2014 16:26:07 GMT -5
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 26, 2014 16:29:33 GMT -5
This reminds me of that rancher who wouldn't move off BLM lands. He's in the wiki page. I was skimming but his name popped up
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 26, 2014 16:31:00 GMT -5
We have a few locally that live up in the mountains above Santa Cruz. There were more of them than a lot of people thought. They were on the local news with their sob stories when their places burned down during the fires we got in 08. Since the structures never had building permits and whatnot, they couldn't get insurance. No insurance, no check when your illegal residence burns down. There were jars and stuff to donate to them so they could rebuild after the fire. I didn't put any money in.
Not all the people living up there were into the sovereign citizen thing. Some of them just wanted a place in the bay area that wasn't super expensive. Didn't feel sorry for them either. If you squat on public land, or buy the land, but build on it illegally to avoid paying property taxes, permit fees, inspections, etc. you take your chances. Funny how they want to avoid the system when it costs them money, but they want the perks when they're looking for a check.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 26, 2014 16:31:26 GMT -5
Anyone ever heard of this movement? Basically, they refuse to acknowledge the laws of the US and refuse to follow court orders. I just had the opportunity to deal with one thru work. How does one reconcile their denial of government powers while living in public housing, receiving food stamps, WIC for the kids, Medicaid, and having a public defender? That's basically what's been going on with the Fundamentalist Church of the LDS in the Arizona Strip and the followers of Warren Jeffs. The women are "plural wives" but the community has no problem coaching them to apply for welfare under the guise of being single mothers.
I highly recommend reading "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakauer. It's a real eye-opener about how these sects work and get their funding.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 26, 2014 16:41:06 GMT -5
Anyone ever heard of this movement? Basically, they refuse to acknowledge the laws of the US and refuse to follow court orders. I just had the opportunity to deal with one thru work. How does one reconcile their denial of government powers while living in public housing, receiving food stamps, WIC for the kids, Medicaid, and having a public defender? It is sad how dense some people are. Reminds me of the signs saying to keep the govt out of my medicaid when Obamacare was being voted on.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Aug 26, 2014 16:47:02 GMT -5
Speaking somewhat seriously they probably think they are smarter than the gov't and why not take stuff from the evil empire. When he was talking about crown powers and refusal to call himself a name because it's copyrighted, I realized he's just spewing talking points he read on the interwebz
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 26, 2014 16:49:39 GMT -5
swamp-wait until you have to deal with someone who claims they have special rights because they are Moorish American National Republic 'citizens'.
We had a local Moorish American National Republic 'citizen' (female) who staked a $3 million dollar foreclosed home as her own because of her special citizenship. She used heavy chains on the property entrance gate to block the local police who were there to evict her from the property. The police eventually got tired of her nonsense and they cut the chains and arrested her. She was charged with trespassing, burglary and theft and is now serving time in prison for same.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Aug 26, 2014 17:36:14 GMT -5
The quick answer is that the word sovereign is the one who, by right, lords it over all others, and that's what your person is doing to all of the rest of us suckers, Swamp. I found the website for the Moorish American National Republic. Holy moley ! moorishamericannationalrepublic.com/
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Aug 26, 2014 18:09:43 GMT -5
The quick answer is that the word sovereign is the one who, by right, lords it over all others, and that's what your person is doing to all of the rest of us suckers, Swamp. I found the website for the Moorish American National Republic. Holy moley ! moorishamericannationalrepublic.com/Meh. He's lording over us from jail.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Aug 26, 2014 20:43:57 GMT -5
It seems like this sort of thing is a form of magical thinking. If they say the right combination of "magic" words, they can wriggle out of things they don't want to do. If they research deeply enough into the crazy claims they find in the internet or among the self-published blatherings of obsessive nutcases, they will find the secret and know the right claims to make to make themselves invincible. It's like a weird sort of Dungeons and Dragons game except these people are trying to play it in real life with actual sane humans who do not know or accept the "rules."
Hey, maybe that's a business idea. Create a role-playing game based on Sovereign Citizens or the Moorish American National Republic, then sell it to the crazies. They might become so engrossed in the game that they leave normal people alone.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 26, 2014 20:56:54 GMT -5
Out here we have a version who call themselves constitutionalists. Only the original constitution is acceptable. No amendments. I can't quite make sense of it.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 26, 2014 20:59:48 GMT -5
There's a doofus born every minute, it seems ... and they have some sort of built-in radar that allows them to find one another!
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Aug 26, 2014 21:32:30 GMT -5
My older brother was acting totally crazy for a few years. He said the government had no right to collect taxes and he didn't want to deal with them, he mailed back his SS card and drivers license so couldn't work. He lived in a shed and lived on his Air Force pension, he didn't want to pay taxes but didn't refuse his pension. I was working for a CPA firm and paying taxes and he said I was stupid, they had on right to collect and only stupid people pay taxes.
Now he is pretty normal, married living with wife and stepson in Mexico. He collects his pension and SS and is smart enough not to call me stupid. Calling your own sister stupid makes her not want to talk to you for years and years. I only saw him when he was with mom and then basically only was polite so mom wasn't upset. Now we are facebook friends and one brother has already visited him and now his daughter is going to visit because he is pretty normal.
Could all these nut jobs just be mentally ill.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Aug 26, 2014 23:19:53 GMT -5
The quick answer is that the word sovereign is the one who, by right, lords it over all others, and that's what your person is doing to all of the rest of us suckers, Swamp. I found the website for the Moorish American National Republic. Holy moley ! moorishamericannationalrepublic.com/Meh. He's lording over us from jail. Yes, but he knows he's in the right !
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truthbound
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Post by truthbound on Aug 27, 2014 4:58:23 GMT -5
Anyone ever heard of this movement? Basically, they refuse to acknowledge the laws of the US and refuse to follow court orders. I just had the opportunity to deal with one thru work. How does one reconcile their denial of government powers while living in public housing, receiving food stamps, WIC for the kids, Medicaid, and having a public defender? You don't reconcile it. You tell them they are nutbags and get as far away as possible
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on Aug 27, 2014 5:12:31 GMT -5
My late father had a description of people with that type of attitude. he termed it mental masterbation.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 27, 2014 7:05:39 GMT -5
Are these the nut jobs that say courts don't have any jurisdiction over them if the flags in the courtroom have gold fringe on the edges? Or is that a different flavor of nut job?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 27, 2014 8:26:10 GMT -5
happyhoix - regarding the flag and fringe. From the American Patriots Friends Network: GOLD FRINGED FLAGThe flags displayed in State courts and courts of the United States have gold or yellow fringes. That is your WARNING that you are entering into a foreign enclave, the same as if you are stepping into a foreign embassy and you will be under the jurisdiction of that flag. The flag with the gold or yellow fringe has no constitution, no laws, and no rules of court, and is not recognized by any nation on the earth, and is foreign to you and the United States of America. more information Rest of article here: GET THAT GOLD FRINGE OFF MY FLAG!
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Aug 27, 2014 9:04:20 GMT -5
Because everyone knows that gold fringe is an instrument of Satan. Or aliens. Or something.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Aug 27, 2014 9:05:28 GMT -5
happyhoix - regarding the flag and fringe. From the American Patriots Friends Network: GOLD FRINGED FLAGThe flags displayed in State courts and courts of the United States have gold or yellow fringes. That is your WARNING that you are entering into a foreign enclave, the same as if you are stepping into a foreign embassy and you will be under the jurisdiction of that flag. The flag with the gold or yellow fringe has no constitution, no laws, and no rules of court, and is not recognized by any nation on the earth, and is foreign to you and the United States of America. more information Rest of article here: GET THAT GOLD FRINGE OFF MY FLAG! Yes, this is my father. He's been this way since I was a kid. It's gotten more extreme as he's gotten older - I pretty much consider him mentally ill. To his credit, he's consistently anti-govt. He doesn't participate in "the system" in any way.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 27, 2014 9:09:51 GMT -5
Because everyone knows that gold fringe is an instrument of Satan. Or aliens. Or something. Or maybe people just think it's tacky?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 27, 2014 9:10:04 GMT -5
Because everyone knows that gold fringe is an instrument of Satan. Or aliens. Or something. And Go-Go dancers and strippers.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 27, 2014 9:19:05 GMT -5
I wasn't aware of the name, but I doesn't surprise me people like this are out there.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 27, 2014 9:20:44 GMT -5
happyhoix - regarding the flag and fringe. From the American Patriots Friends Network: GOLD FRINGED FLAGThe flags displayed in State courts and courts of the United States have gold or yellow fringes. That is your WARNING that you are entering into a foreign enclave, the same as if you are stepping into a foreign embassy and you will be under the jurisdiction of that flag. The flag with the gold or yellow fringe has no constitution, no laws, and no rules of court, and is not recognized by any nation on the earth, and is foreign to you and the United States of America. more information Rest of article here: GET THAT GOLD FRINGE OFF MY FLAG! I don't know what's more weird, that someone sat around and thought this up, or that other people heard it and agreed with it. Of course, I feel the same way about Scientology. Aliens in the volcanos and all - yep.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Aug 27, 2014 9:23:24 GMT -5
Are these the nut jobs that say courts don't have any jurisdiction over them if the flags in the courtroom have gold fringe on the edges? Or is that a different flavor of nut job? Differe t flavor. The court doesn't have jurisdiction because they just don't.
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