Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2014 12:30:34 GMT -5
A true feminist doesn't expect everyone to wait on her. She's just an asshole. Yeah, I bristled at the "feminist" label, too. To me, feminism means equal access to jobs, graduate schools, etc., equal pay for equal work, and having options to either stay home with your kids or work outside the home. It also means being an equal partner in relationships- not the princess, but not the doormat, either. Some people seem to thrive on difficult relationships. As mentioned earlier, it may be a matter of pride for a man to have a high-maintenance wife with exquisite tastes. DH has a nephew in a contentious relationship with his wife, but they've been together nearly 30 years and show no signs of divorcing. He'd call his Dad (DH's brother) at the end of the day from his car when he got home from work, just to chat, if she wasn't in bed yet, because he didn't want to deal with her. (I think he kept late hours as an alarm installer.) Sheesh. Life is too short. Sometimes I look at women who don't lift a finger and some guy is working to pay all the bills and cater to every whim and wonder why I can't get away with that. Then I come to my senses. I wouldn't want it and wouldn't respect the guy. I have to disagree (and I know, I'm opening myself up for flames!)...a true feminist (imho) would never allow a man to support her or allow herself to be in a position that she would be screwed if a man up and left her.
I am more than capable of supporting myself and my children without one dime from my husband...but I don't consider myself a feminist...I consider myself a realist and realistically the only person I know without a doubt that I can count on is me
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 15, 2014 12:42:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I bristled at the "feminist" label, too. To me, feminism means equal access to jobs, graduate schools, etc., equal pay for equal work, and having options to either stay home with your kids or work outside the home. It also means being an equal partner in relationships- not the princess, but not the doormat, either. Some people seem to thrive on difficult relationships. As mentioned earlier, it may be a matter of pride for a man to have a high-maintenance wife with exquisite tastes. DH has a nephew in a contentious relationship with his wife, but they've been together nearly 30 years and show no signs of divorcing. He'd call his Dad (DH's brother) at the end of the day from his car when he got home from work, just to chat, if she wasn't in bed yet, because he didn't want to deal with her. (I think he kept late hours as an alarm installer.) Sheesh. Life is too short. Sometimes I look at women who don't lift a finger and some guy is working to pay all the bills and cater to every whim and wonder why I can't get away with that. Then I come to my senses. I wouldn't want it and wouldn't respect the guy. I have to disagree (and I know, I'm opening myself up for flames!)...a true feminist (imho) would never allow a man to support her or allow herself to be in a position that she would be screwed if a man up and left her.
I am more than capable of supporting myself and my children without one dime from my husband...but I don't consider myself a feminist...I consider myself a realist and realistically the only person I know without a doubt that I can count on is me
Under my definition of feminist, I think you would qualify. I can't imagine you would agree to be paid less than the guy in the next office doing the same job, being told you can't work as a CPA because you're female, a school counselor telling your DD she can't be an engineer because girls aren't good at math, or that you need to sleep with your boss to keep a job.
I use a pretty broad definition............
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 15, 2014 12:52:39 GMT -5
I bet he's thinking with the wrong head. She's probably very pretty and well built. He wouldn't date someone nice who was, maybe a 5 or 6. His ego wouldn't allow it. So he will marry a bitch because she's hot and then bitch about her when she's not anymore. Or the fantastic sex isn't worth it anymore. One of my co-worker's sons is always bitching about the quality of women he has to date (he's in his 40's), but he's not willing to date anyone who's not blond and leggy. Nor will he date someone over 30 or over 110lbs. And, in his words at least a 9. So his pool of potential girlfriends is so limited that the nice women who fit this description have already been snapped up.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 15, 2014 12:54:38 GMT -5
Yup. This starts in college at least. I used to get asked to fix up my pretty friends with some guys that were just creepy. When I said something along the lines of what would make you even think she'd go out with him, the response was that even guys that are 2s feel they deserve or at least want to be seen with 10s.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 15, 2014 12:56:46 GMT -5
The same reason that some women marry terrible, manipulative, abusive, good for nothing men. Hell if I know, though.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 15, 2014 13:19:13 GMT -5
I don't think there's really one catch all answer to this question. The reasons people do the things they do are as varied and complex as the individuals themselves and their backgrounds. You can't really generalize about an entire gender.
I think for some, they thrive on drama.
For others, I think they don't know the difference because that's the only thing they know from their upbringing/past.
Others may "love the chase" or otherwise feel they are getting a trophy wife.
Others may feel like they don't have a choice, that they have to marry the bridezilla or live alone forever.
Really, there may not be a complex explanation at all, and the men are just oblivious. They fell in love (or lust) with someone and can't see the woman for who she really is. Women do that as well. People see what they want to see. Never underestimate the power of denial.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2014 13:44:30 GMT -5
I have to disagree (and I know, I'm opening myself up for flames!)...a true feminist (imho) would never allow a man to support her or allow herself to be in a position that she would be screwed if a man up and left her.
I am more than capable of supporting myself and my children without one dime from my husband...but I don't consider myself a feminist...I consider myself a realist and realistically the only person I know without a doubt that I can count on is me
Under my definition of feminist, I think you would qualify. I can't imagine you would agree to be paid less than the guy in the next office doing the same job, being told you can't work as a CPA because you're female, a school counselor telling your DD she can't be an engineer because girls aren't good at math, or that you need to sleep with your boss to keep a job.
I use a pretty broad definition............
Wait...so I shouldn't be sleeping with my boss??
I probably am technically a feminist but to me a feminist has negative connotations so I don't actually want to be one. But I'm probably more of a feminist than those claiming to be feminist yet haven't supported themselves in years...I guess we all call ourselves whatever we WANT to identify with, whether it is true or not...
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 15, 2014 13:48:21 GMT -5
Under my definition of feminist, I think you would qualify. I can't imagine you would agree to be paid less than the guy in the next office doing the same job, being told you can't work as a CPA because you're female, a school counselor telling your DD she can't be an engineer because girls aren't good at math, or that you need to sleep with your boss to keep a job.
I use a pretty broad definition............
Wait...so I shouldn't be sleeping with my boss??
I probably am technically a feminist but to me a feminist has negative connotations so I don't actually want to be one. But I'm probably more of a feminist than those claiming to be feminist yet haven't supported themselves in years...I guess we all call ourselves whatever we WANT to identify with, whether it is true or not...
Yeah, sorry, I thought you got that memo.
It makes me sad that feminist has such a negative connotation, because as far as I can tell, there is nothing wrong with equal pay for equal work, or opening up all jobs to the people who are qualified to do them.
Chicks like the one in the OP give feminists a bad name.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2014 13:52:13 GMT -5
Wait...so I shouldn't be sleeping with my boss??
I probably am technically a feminist but to me a feminist has negative connotations so I don't actually want to be one. But I'm probably more of a feminist than those claiming to be feminist yet haven't supported themselves in years...I guess we all call ourselves whatever we WANT to identify with, whether it is true or not...
Yeah, sorry, I thought you got that memo.
It makes me sad that feminist has such a negative connotation, because as far as I can tell, there is nothing wrong with equal pay for equal work, or opening up all jobs to the people who are qualified to do them.
Chicks like the one in the OP give feminists a bad name.
I'm all for equal pay for equal work...but the feminists seem to fight to lower qualifications for jobs so they can meet them. If we want fair and equal, then everything should be fair and equal. Plus, lots of women claiming to be feminists aren't what I would consider feminists...since I want to be NOTHING like them, I dont' want to call myself a feminist. Not sure if that makes any sense...
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Aug 15, 2014 13:53:12 GMT -5
In my experience, people like that are often just as guilty. They pick high maintenance or troubled people so they can play some victim or savior role. They always look like the good guy, and they like that. It's exasperating, because they also come to you to complain about their situation, but never do anything to change it. They love the drama! They crave it, and at the end of the day, they get to say, it's them, not ME! And somehow, it always goes right over their head, that they picked that individual and they chose to stay. You can't pick a wild animal as a companion animal, and start complaining when they do what's in their nature! No sympathies for them. IMO Here's where you and I make up and become friends again...... You hit the nail on the head. I don't have patience for martyrs.......BORING. Or, they talk to you about the problem, you give them the brutal, honest truth, they nod in agreement, "yes, you're right,....but (insert some BS)" and the situation goes on. I'm like a broken clock. spot on twice a day.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 15, 2014 13:58:40 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry, I thought you got that memo.
It makes me sad that feminist has such a negative connotation, because as far as I can tell, there is nothing wrong with equal pay for equal work, or opening up all jobs to the people who are qualified to do them.
Chicks like the one in the OP give feminists a bad name.
I'm all for equal pay for equal work...but the feminists seem to fight to lower qualifications for jobs so they can meet them. If we want fair and equal, then everything should be fair and equal. Plus, lots of women claiming to be feminists aren't what I would consider feminists...since I want to be NOTHING like them, I dont' want to call myself a feminist. Not sure if that makes any sense... I don't think women should have lower standards for a certain job, provided those standards are relevant to the job.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2014 14:03:26 GMT -5
I'm all for equal pay for equal work...but the feminists seem to fight to lower qualifications for jobs so they can meet them. If we want fair and equal, then everything should be fair and equal. Plus, lots of women claiming to be feminists aren't what I would consider feminists...since I want to be NOTHING like them, I dont' want to call myself a feminist. Not sure if that makes any sense... I don't think women should have lower standards for a certain job, provided those standards are relevant to the job. If they aren't relevant to the job, men shouldn't be held to them, either.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 15, 2014 14:09:06 GMT -5
I don't think women should have lower standards for a certain job, provided those standards are relevant to the job. If they aren't relevant to the job, men shouldn't be held to them, either. exactly, but it seems like some of the requirements for jobs are from the way the job used to be, instead of what it requires now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 14:19:30 GMT -5
I have a theory about this. Some men want to marry a 'trophy' wife - a wife that all their friends will be in awe of.
They met a narcassistic woman who believes she is the finest, the hottest, the most delicate, awesomest creature walking on the face of the earth, and the poor guy buys into her self assessment. When she complains that a chicken breast dinner for the wedding isn't nice enough for someone as special as her, he agrees to the crab cake and sirloin. All this re-enforces his belief that his bride to be is the most delicate, most high class, awesome woman around, and all his friends and family will be thunderstruck at what a fabulous, glamorous wife he has hanging on his arm. He may complain that she's demanding and particular, that her tastes are expensive, but that's a kind of bragging - look at how special she is, at how discriminating she is, how refined her tastes are. Some of these guys end up getting a divorce, but they seem to end up attracted to the same type of woman over and over. I think they just can't get past that search for the trophy. Not that women don't do the same thing. DH works with a woman who will only date body builders. She's divorced, approaching her forties and complains constantly that there are no good men out there, but since she's only willing to dip into the pool of men who are obsessed with their muscles and appearance, she is constantly being disappointed. Would friends really be in awe of a woman that contributes nothing to the household? (Nothing but looks that is.)
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Aug 15, 2014 14:31:19 GMT -5
I don't find spoiled, shallow, narcissistic women like what was mentioned in the OP who only do what will suit them a feminist. I find them to be spoiled, shallow, narcissistic women. Feminists as I know them just want the same opportunities, options and fairness that men get. If they don't want to work at a paying job they work at home taking care of it and/or their kids and work in their yards, etc. They don't sit on their butts and wait for their partner to show up and cater to them. Although we had one woman who lived in our neighborhood who did that and she was beaten by the ugly stick. But her lawyer DH catered to her any way. He called her his JAP. LOL!! But when push came to shove HE made the decisions and they recently moved. She was not happy but what could she do? I couldn't be in a marriage/relationship where my opinions didn't matter or where I didn't have say where we lived or what we did. And I would never want that kind of drama in my life. I'd rather be single and working again. And if women don't want to clean their houses or work in their yards they make enough money to hire it out. If they can't afford it they do it themselves or split chores with their partners. I think today most men do that too so I think feminism is alive and well for the most part. Probably the same reason women put up with asshole men. They find them exciting or they looovve them.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2014 14:52:30 GMT -5
If they aren't relevant to the job, men shouldn't be held to them, either. exactly, but it seems like some of the requirements for jobs are from the way the job used to be, instead of what it requires now. I don't know...I remember mollymouser explaining why her husband, a fighter pilot, needs to meet the requirements. No, to fly he doesn't need to lift a 150lb over his shoulder for any period of time...but god forbid he is ever shot down in enemy territory, then he needs to be able to get someone to safety. Without thinking of that, it would be easy to say that no military pilot should have to be able to carry 150lbs to fly a jet. I find it hard to believe that standards are in place for no reason. If I'm in a fire, I want to be damn sure that my firefighter can carry my ass out the window and down the ladder...I don't care if it is a man or a woman but whoever it is had better have met the requirements.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 18, 2014 7:08:03 GMT -5
I have a theory about this. Some men want to marry a 'trophy' wife - a wife that all their friends will be in awe of.
They met a narcassistic woman who believes she is the finest, the hottest, the most delicate, awesomest creature walking on the face of the earth, and the poor guy buys into her self assessment. When she complains that a chicken breast dinner for the wedding isn't nice enough for someone as special as her, he agrees to the crab cake and sirloin. All this re-enforces his belief that his bride to be is the most delicate, most high class, awesome woman around, and all his friends and family will be thunderstruck at what a fabulous, glamorous wife he has hanging on his arm. He may complain that she's demanding and particular, that her tastes are expensive, but that's a kind of bragging - look at how special she is, at how discriminating she is, how refined her tastes are. Some of these guys end up getting a divorce, but they seem to end up attracted to the same type of woman over and over. I think they just can't get past that search for the trophy. Not that women don't do the same thing. DH works with a woman who will only date body builders. She's divorced, approaching her forties and complains constantly that there are no good men out there, but since she's only willing to dip into the pool of men who are obsessed with their muscles and appearance, she is constantly being disappointed. Would friends really be in awe of a woman that contributes nothing to the household? (Nothing but looks that is.) In the mind of the guy who wants the trophy wife, all his friends will be drooling with envy because his wife is stacked, tall, and gorgeous. The fact that she spends all her time shopping and running up their credit cards doesn't enter into the equation. It's the same reason why some people 'have' to have the McMansion or the fabulously expensive sports car - they want everyone else to admire or envy them, and since they base their assessment of other people on how they look/how their spouse looks/what car they drive/what house they own they think the rest of the world judges them the same way, too. Marrying a woman who was educated, compatible with him and could earn a good living would be as alien to these kinds of people as buying a second hand Honda. And I'm not just ragging on men here, there are plenty of women who fall into this same 'trophy' lifestyle mindset.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 18, 2014 7:21:06 GMT -5
Used to be, many companies fired women when they got married because they felt that married women couldn't focus on the job properly. It was also expected that women would tolerate sexual fondling and inappropriate comments from their bosses, or risk getting fired. This wasn't that long ago - back in the fifties - and this was what the feminisim movement in the sixties was about. I think women who are, say, younger than 50 don't realize just how blatant sexism was back then, and how necessary it was for women to demand respect and fair pay in the workplace.
Feminism never advocated that women ought to be able to rule the world and men should cringe before them - that's just being a narcissistic bitch.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 18, 2014 9:34:06 GMT -5
It was happening in the 70s, too.
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andreawick
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Post by andreawick on Aug 18, 2014 10:52:20 GMT -5
Yup. Figures. That and BJs. men will do anything for BJs - wait 'til he finds out that they stop after the wedding :-)
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 18, 2014 10:56:43 GMT -5
The answer is pretty simple, she's much better looking and/or much better in bed than he could otherwise land. She doesn't have to be extremely attractive, just good enough looking he can't do better with someone who is nicer.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 18, 2014 11:05:40 GMT -5
Yup. Figures. That and BJs. men will do anything for BJs - wait 'til he finds out that they stop after the wedding :-) Really??
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 18, 2014 11:21:13 GMT -5
Yup. Figures. That and BJs. men will do anything for BJs - wait 'til he finds out that they stop after the wedding :-) Shut the front door My wife memo got lost and let's just keep it that way
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andreawick
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Post by andreawick on Aug 18, 2014 11:28:15 GMT -5
men will do anything for BJs - wait 'til he finds out that they stop after the wedding :-) Shut the front door My wife memo got lost and let's just keep it that way No wonder she's not pregnant....it's a long way from the tonsils to the ovaries...
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 18, 2014 11:41:29 GMT -5
I've got a friend who I met when he was first dating my friend's older sister and they're now married with 4 kids. Another one of our friends met a woman some years back who was really looking for a meal ticket (she contacted him on social media when they had never met) and after years of him being single he bought what she was selling. Anyways I remember the now married friend telling us he had been married before and he made the mistake of marrying for looks and sex. He made no excuses just said that he was in his early 20's and she was a petite gorgeous blond and he ignored her personality shortcomings and the things that really matter. He said he would never make the mistake again of marrying only because of looks and sex. Some guys don't learn from that lesson whether it's in high school, college or after when they go through multiple divorces.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 18, 2014 11:45:11 GMT -5
Amen.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Aug 18, 2014 12:54:34 GMT -5
So how handsome is he? VERY Looks like James Maslow. Had to look up who that was and all I can say is he looks like a high maintenance pretty boy himself. Give me a Jenson Ackles anyday - pretty boy who at least looks like his muscles came from working and not just the gym.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Aug 18, 2014 13:09:18 GMT -5
It was happening in the 70s, too. Early 90's too. That behavior was becoming frowned on in the 60's, 70's, and 80's but until the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings it was still pretty accepted as a potential "job hazard" for women.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 18, 2014 13:23:45 GMT -5
Ugh, we've come so far but not really.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 18, 2014 13:39:58 GMT -5
Ugh, we've come so far but not really. In my first job I ran into a woman who used to bitch all the time that she hated feminists because before there was feminism it was acceptable for woman to sit around at home after they graduated from school, waiting to get married, and once they got married they were all SAHM's, until those horrible feminists came along and said all women have to work. Her daddy made her go out and get a job (which she hated) but she was only doing it until she landed a DH, then her plan was to quit and never work again. I tried to explain to her once that it was the feminists who made sure that, should her DH die or divorce her, she wouldn't be discriminated against if she applied for a job as a single mom. Her answer was that the guy she was dating was from a wealthy family so if anything happened to him or he divorced her, she would still get a chunk of that family wealth that she could live on. There is a lot of misunderstanding, especially here in the South, about the goals of the feminist movement. Forcing all women to work is not one of them. The guy she was dating worked at the same place, in my department, and he was a spoiled rich kid who hated to work as much as she did. He was on the edge of being terminated for too many absences when I left. I always wondered if the two of them ultimately got married, and if she was able to be a SAHM like she wanted.
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