Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 17:08:12 GMT -5
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 8, 2014 17:36:47 GMT -5
No.
You won't be thanked...You'll just be blamed....again
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 8, 2014 18:09:23 GMT -5
What were Obama's choices? Not attacking ISIS, his critics would probably claim he supports the Sunni extremists and does not care about Christians and the Yazidi. Attacking ISIS, his critics will probably claim Obama once again broke his promise to end the war and is deflecting attention from the upcoming mid-term elections and the economy. As for me, I support the limited actions of attacking the extremists and dropping aid to the Christians and trapped Yazidi. As for the rest of Iraq, its government needs to get busy defending itself. |
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 8, 2014 18:14:22 GMT -5
It was a shitty situation prior to 9/11, it was a shitty situation with our involvement following 9/11, it's still a shitty situation following our 'withdrawal'. The place is a shit hole. Our intervention or lack of it won't change that. That said, I can see why these strikes were ordered. The rest of the world isn't going to sit around and watch a bunch of religious whackjobs starve out a bunch of women and children trapped on a mountain.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 20:11:52 GMT -5
No. You won't be thanked...You'll just be blamed....again blamed by who? |
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 9, 2014 9:03:02 GMT -5
It was a shitty situation prior to 9/11, it was a shitty situation with our involvement following 9/11, it's still a shitty situation following our 'withdrawal'. The place is a shit hole. Our intervention or lack of it won't change that. That said, I can see why these strikes were ordered. The rest of the world isn't going to sit around and watch a bunch of religious whackjobs starve out a bunch of women and children trapped on a mountain. The rest of the world isn't going to sit around................. Who was going to not sit around? Saudi Arabia Great Britain France Israel Russia China The rest of the world would have sat around and watched it implode.
There is not a single country that would have intervened. Maybe Iran, if they thought they could take over the country, but they knew we would then become involved. Where was the UN in this? Were they even part of a discussion started by U.S.A before the bombing commenced? We (Bush II) broke it, we own it.......... Tenn is correct that the President is in a hard position politically here. I do not have the correct answer. I would have preferred a humanitarian aid drop, and an emergency meeting of the UN and go from there. There has to be a consensus of a group of nations on Iraq before we go in willy nilly dropping 500 lb bombs.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 9:17:39 GMT -5
I agree a tough position for the president. I feel pretty ambivalent about it. A humanitarian aid drop for how long? forever? Dropping a couple bombs and going home will do nothing. I agree with Value Buy, the world will sit around and do nothing as usual.
eta: that crazy Glenn Beck that warned about the Caliphate to come a few years ago doesn't look so crazy anymore. Something Oprah said that always stuck with me: When people tell you who they are, believe them.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 9, 2014 9:29:33 GMT -5
I agree a tough position for the president. I feel pretty ambivalent about it. A humanitarian aid drop for how long? forever? Dropping a couple bombs and going home will do nothing. I agree with Value Buy, the world will sit around and do nothing as usual.
The Berlin airlift operated from June 28, 1948 through September 30, 1949. As Value Buy stated, the U.S. 'broke' Iraq where we had no business being ìn the first place. I believe we still have a duty to support it, at least with humanitarian aid, until Iraq can take care of its own security and meeting the needs of its citizens without any assistance from other nations. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 9:33:48 GMT -5
The Iraqis are running away.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 9, 2014 9:36:43 GMT -5
The Iraqis are running away. Were Saddam Hussein still ìn power, none of this would be taking place, including the Iraqis running away. |
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 9, 2014 9:43:53 GMT -5
I agree a tough position for the president. I feel pretty ambivalent about it. A humanitarian aid drop for how long? forever? Dropping a couple bombs and going home will do nothing. I agree with Value Buy, the world will sit around and do nothing as usual.
The Berlin airlift operated from June 28, 1948 through September 30, 1949. As Value Buy stated, the U.S. 'broke' Iraq where we had no business being ìn the first place. I believe we still have a duty to support it, at least with humanitarian aid, until Iraq can take care of its own security and meeting the needs of its citizens without any assistance from other nations. Saddam just could not leave well enough alone. He just kept having to prick the President and even his predecessor, Clinton, and after he gassed the Kurds, you had to know his time was limited. He did know how to keep the various tribes in check, for his benefit. As much as I dislike the UN, we are not going to leave the organization, and I feel we should be using it as much as possible, and have them involved, even if it makes us the majority force behind any military activity. There has to be a consensus of nations on this.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 9:48:03 GMT -5
The Iraqis are running away. Were Saddam Hussein still ìn power, none of this would be taking place, including the Iraqis running away. agree, but that does not help solve where we are now. |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 9, 2014 9:56:26 GMT -5
Were Saddam Hussein still ìn power, none of this would be taking place, including the Iraqis running away. agree, but that does not help solve where we are now. No ìt does not. But with taking Saddam out of the picture, Iraq, good or bad, lost the glue that held it together. We removed the glue. Would you be okay with this ISIS group taking over all of Iraq, maybe parts or all of Syria and even Kuwait? Fight them now or fight them later. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 11:28:41 GMT -5
agree, but that does not help solve where we are now. No ìt does not. But with taking Saddam out of the picture, Iraq, good or bad, lost the glue that held it together. We removed the glue. Would you be okay with this ISIS group taking over all of Iraq, maybe parts or all of Syria and even Kuwait? Fight them now or fight them later. Yes, agree. I have said that already. If we are going to fight it will be for generations. Will we do that? Can we do that if we are the only ones willing? news.vice.com/video/the-islamic-state-part-2
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 18:31:31 GMT -5
A lot of people probably won't like this Idea, but, once we took out Saddam, we should have made Iraq a "self governed protectorate" with US military bases (2... maybe 3). Bases that we could EVENTUALLY transfer over to a fully functional and self-sufficient Iraqi government in 50 years or so.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 9, 2014 18:34:44 GMT -5
A lot of people probably won't like this Idea, but, once we took out Saddam, we should have made Iraq a "self governed protectorate" with US military bases (2... maybe 3). Bases that we could EVENTUALLY transfer over to a fully functional and self-sufficient Iraqi government in 50 years or so. i.e. a colony |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 18:52:01 GMT -5
A lot of people probably won't like this Idea, but, once we took out Saddam, we should have made Iraq a "self governed protectorate" with US military bases (2... maybe 3). Bases that we could EVENTUALLY transfer over to a fully functional and self-sufficient Iraqi government in 50 years or so. i.e. a colony No. A colony is part of the country. What I am thinking of would have been a separate and individual sovereign country of Iraq, but under the protection of the U.S. With us protecting them "against all enemies, both foreign and domestic". Outside our bases, they would have their own laws created by their own democratically elected government. The would be their own country... Just like West Germany (and eventually all Germany) after World War II. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 9, 2014 19:03:34 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 20:01:52 GMT -5
I believe it means: ADJECTIVE 1 Possessing supreme or ultimate power: in modern democracies the people’s will is in theory sovereign 1.1 [ATTRIBUTIVE] (Of a nation or its affairs) acting or done independently and without outside interferenceThe OED and I COULD be wrong though... what do you think it means? |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 9, 2014 20:42:57 GMT -5
... we should have made Iraq a ... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 21:10:51 GMT -5
... we should have made Iraq a ... Is there a point to that quote? ETA: I'm going to assume that you erroneously believe that a sovereign country can't be created. I guess you forgot about Germany, and the fact that the Allies created the government of Germany... THEN we left it alone to govern it's own affairs as a sovereign country. Sovereign doesn't mean "never created". |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 9, 2014 21:14:27 GMT -5
Yes
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 21:22:24 GMT -5
Also remember, I think taking out Saddam Hussein was a bad move on our part... My suggestion that we should have made Iraq a protectorate is only because after we took him out of the picture, the option to NOT do that had already expired.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 9, 2014 22:01:23 GMT -5
Is there a point to that quote? ETA: I'm going to assume that you erroneously believe that a sovereign country can't be created. I guess you forgot about Germany, and the fact that the Allies created the government of Germany... THEN we left it alone to govern it's own affairs as a sovereign country. Sovereign doesn't mean "never created". There was a long process before Germany became sovereign. ETA: I know that you know that it took a long process for Germany to become sovereign again after after WWII so I am not sure why you suggest we treat Iraq like we treated Germany but then set it as we would allow them to be sovereign immediately. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 22:25:41 GMT -5
Is there a point to that quote? ETA: I'm going to assume that you erroneously believe that a sovereign country can't be created. I guess you forgot about Germany, and the fact that the Allies created the government of Germany... THEN we left it alone to govern it's own affairs as a sovereign country. Sovereign doesn't mean "never created". There was a long process before Germany became sovereign. Did I ever say how long the process took? I don't believe I did. Feel free to look for me saying it though. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 22:20:17 GMT -5
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 10, 2014 22:41:18 GMT -5
Ack! This is soooo NOT GOOD! Love me some Kurds, dammit! We need them and they need us. This mess makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck! |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 10, 2014 23:07:33 GMT -5
There may be an actual military coup occurring ìn Iraq, but your linked article at this time ìs titled 'Possible Military Coup Rocks Iraq'. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 23:13:07 GMT -5
Perfect.   |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 23:58:51 GMT -5
There may be an actual military coup occurring ìn Iraq, but your linked article at this time ìs titled 'Possible Military Coup Rocks Iraq'. I saw on another site the coup was confirmed but no details. I posted this one . We can all read the headline I think.
eta: still nothing on CNN so maybe , hopefully, not true.
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