Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2014 17:02:33 GMT -5
Still plan to live together, still love each other, just no longer legally married - would you have any moral or other issues with divorcing solely because of some financial advantage?
Would you tell people or keep it to yourselves?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 7, 2014 17:04:12 GMT -5
Nope. I think DF is an idiot to get married but he wants to.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 7, 2014 17:05:13 GMT -5
Interesting question. My second husband proposed getting a divorce solely for financial reasons. I agreed because I had too much pride to stay married to someone who didn't want to be married. We were having other issues and before the divorce was final, I had moved out.
Now, I would consider divorce only if the marriage was over.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 7, 2014 17:08:34 GMT -5
I can see getting divorced for financial reasons. I can't see getting divorced for a financial advantage.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2014 17:10:39 GMT -5
What if one of you was getting sued and you wanted to protect your mutual assets from litigation? What if you collectively earned too much to qualify for Medicaid but your insurance wasn't covering the treatments you needed and you were drowning in debt?
That kind of thing.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 7, 2014 17:12:54 GMT -5
What if one of you was getting sued and you wanted to protect your mutual assets from litigation? What if you collectively earned too much to qualify for Medicaid but your insurance wasn't covering the treatments you needed and you were drowning in debt? That kind of thing. I don't think you can get out of any of those situations by divorcing.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 7, 2014 17:14:45 GMT -5
I think that if I was in a position where DH was going to destroy the financial future of myself and children then yes I would have to consider it.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 7, 2014 17:16:06 GMT -5
BTW One of the biggest reasons for divorce is financial.
My parents divorce was primarily for financial reasons. They had a business failure, filed BK and both blamed each other a the primary cause for the failure.
From my perspective they were both to blame equally.
ETA: Hell I got divorced for financial reasons. My Ex was too lazy to work!
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Aug 7, 2014 17:17:40 GMT -5
My younger bro and his wife divorced for financial reasons. She was widowed when they married. When she turned 60 they divorced so she could collect on her first DHs SS. After she started collecting the funds they got married again.
They know how to work the system.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 7, 2014 17:21:22 GMT -5
I don't know if your local newspaper published marriages and divorces, Firebird, but eventually the news gets out.
What you and yours do is your own business. Just look at the pros and cons as it pertains to your current concerns and how it might affect your future.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2014 17:21:37 GMT -5
My younger bro and his wife divorced for financial reasons. She was widowed when they married. When she turned 60 they divorced so she could collect on her first DHs SS. After she started collecting the funds they got married again.
That's the kind of thing I was talking about - not a divorce because you are FIGHTING about money, a divorce so you can somehow get more money (or protect what you have).
I overheard a woman talking about this at lunch. She mentioned that she and her husband were considering a divorce so that her income/assets wouldn't be counted in a lawsuit (which hadn't been filed yet). She was trying to proactively protect them as a couple.
I had no idea that was a thing, so wondered if there were other situations where a couple might divorce for financial advantage (but still planned to live together/continue raising kids together/whatever).
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2014 17:22:33 GMT -5
What you and yours do is your own business. Just look at the pros and cons as it pertains to your current concerns and how it might affect your future.Oh, no plans to divorce here
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 7, 2014 17:23:15 GMT -5
So, we'd still be married in our heads and hearts, just not on paper?
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 7, 2014 17:25:33 GMT -5
How much does it cost to get divorced? What are all the incidental costs - if there's joint property ownership or kids?
I think this is one of those "case by case" kinda things and I'm not sure how much 'morality' comes into it. I don't think couples routinely divorce for "fun and profit".
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Aug 7, 2014 17:25:57 GMT -5
I knew a couple that did that. He was a bit of a tax rebel and she was tired of being audited. Since married filing separately is an awful filing status, they got legally divorced but continued to present themselves to most people as married.
They had a pretty high combined income, so it is possible that there were tax advantages to being unmarried and those advantages may have been great enough to overcome the considerable cost of paying lawyers to draft papers that gave each other some of the rights that spouses often have.
I'm kinda like Bonny. I can imagine getting married for financial benefit but I don't have nearly the pay grade to imagine un-marrying, on paper only, for financial gain.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 7, 2014 17:28:40 GMT -5
My younger bro and his wife divorced for financial reasons. She was widowed when they married. When she turned 60 they divorced so she could collect on her first DHs SS. After she started collecting the funds they got married again.
That's the kind of thing I was talking about - not a divorce because you are FIGHTING about money, a divorce so you can somehow get more money (or protect what you have). I overheard a woman talking about this at lunch. She mentioned that she and her husband were considering a divorce so that her income/assets wouldn't be counted in a lawsuit (which hadn't been filed yet). She was trying to proactively protect them as a couple. I had no idea that was a thing, so wondered if there were other situations where a couple might divorce for financial advantage (but still planned to live together/continue raising kids together/whatever). I recall a rather bizarre story where a military couple were going to divorce so that when their VA house got foreclosed on she would still have her VA eligibility even though he lost his.
With respect to the example above I guess it depends on the situation and the assets but people try this all the time. I suspect there's some kind of look back period. swamp can probably explain it better.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2014 17:28:52 GMT -5
So, we'd still be married in our heads and hearts, just not on paper? Exactly. Wondering if anyone on here would go for that, and whether you would tell people if you did.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 7, 2014 17:30:23 GMT -5
It's actually something I think about from time to time cause it could be a real scenario in my house.
If I were to become disabled over a long period of time it's very conceivable we could exhaust our assets trying to care for me. I'd divorce DH and exhaust my assets until Medicaid kicked in. I would not expect him/DD to go broke trying to care for me. He doesn't agree but we both hope it will never come to that. This is the scenario if DD is still a minor.
If DH became disabled my income would still be able to cover providing care for him and I'd have no problem doing so. I make more then he does, that's the difference. We're fine as long as I'm working, hosed if I'm not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 17:30:54 GMT -5
Well, my divorce wasn't just a financial decision, but I could see where in other situations it could have been. Ex was getting put in state programs and halfway houses that were 8-9K/month and our insurance wouldn't cover it. He was running up quite a tab and I was told that as long as he was married and we had assets (mainly the house is what they were referring to), he couldn't get funding. Then there was the threat of a lien being placed on the property for these debts. The day we were divorced he was made a ward of the state and everything was covered 100% even retroactively back a few months.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 7, 2014 17:34:17 GMT -5
I know one woman who divorced her Alzheimer's stricken husband in order to protect her remaining retirement. By divorcing, she was able to protect her share (what she earned) and he blew through his share of the funds that was spent for his nursing home care. He died before he needed to go onto state aid, but had they not divorced, she would have been left almost destitute if she needed to pay down enough for the state to step in to cover his nursing home costs.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2014 17:36:18 GMT -5
Another scenario comes to mind - I wonder if anyone ever divorces shortly before a bankruptcy, for the purpose of only trashing one credit score instead of two (and possibly protecting some mutual assets from being sold).
I wonder if that's something bankruptcy courts look for during proceedings.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 7, 2014 17:37:00 GMT -5
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 7, 2014 17:51:10 GMT -5
Protecting my kids would be upper most. So if a spouse is going to destroy that future what else could you really do? I mean yes get counseling , try to work it out first but if that doesn't work then it us what ut is
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 7, 2014 17:51:30 GMT -5
Is what it is lol.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 7, 2014 17:55:30 GMT -5
So is the question would you divorce to screw others?
I mean financially of course. It seems like many of the examples involve getting more money from taxpayers or avoiding paying money owed.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2014 17:57:57 GMT -5
Protecting my kids would be upper most. So if a spouse is going to destroy that future what else could you really do? I mean yes get counseling , try to work it out first but if that doesn't work then it us what ut is In these situations the couple would not be in conflict. In other words the divorce wouldn't be happening if not for the financial advantage they stood to gain (as a couple).
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 7, 2014 18:04:05 GMT -5
It's actually something I think about from time to time cause it could be a real scenario in my house. If I were to become disabled over a long period of time it's very conceivable we could exhaust our assets trying to care for me. I'd divorce DH and exhaust my assets until Medicaid kicked in. I would not expect him/DD to go broke trying to care for me. He doesn't agree but we both hope it will never come to that. This is the scenario if DD is still a minor. If DH became disabled my income would still be able to cover providing care for him and I'd have no problem doing so. I make more then he does, that's the difference. We're fine as long as I'm working, hosed if I'm not. Medicaid has a 5 year look back period though. And you're supposed to be counting "household" income. I think that's how that woman living in the waterfront home in Seattle(?) got busted for welfare abuse. Actually wasn't there a lot more to the case then that? I think she was claiming her husband was her landlord and getting section 8, SNAP, etc also while they were taking expense european vacations. Yep, and I agree with lookbacks etc. My assets would cover things for 5 (or more) years. If I need to move out then so be it (we're really contemplating a hard core nursing home scenario anyway). DH might finally be able to get a solid nights sleep . If it ends up where I'm able to stay at home but need care, then my LTD and assets should cover things for a decent amount of time. We'd have to move to a LCOLA area but should still be ok.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 7, 2014 18:12:46 GMT -5
Also to be clear, my assets represent about 2/3 of the marital pool. We're not talking about a scenario where I transfer 100% to him and become broke on paper so they can cash in on the taxpayer's dime.
My first concern would be about protecting the home for DD. In our area the Medicare asset allowance doesn't go far and the house would have to be sold if I needed long term nursing home care. Considering what I bring to the table, I feel fine about exhausting that and leaving DH and DD with something other then poverty.
If that makes me evil or wrong then I own it 100%.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 7, 2014 18:14:32 GMT -5
Medicaid has a 5 year look back period though. And you're supposed to be counting "household" income. I think that's how that woman living in the waterfront home in Seattle(?) got busted for welfare abuse. Actually wasn't there a lot more to the case then that? I think she was claiming her husband was her landlord and getting section 8, SNAP, etc also while they were taking expense european vacations. Yep, and I agree with lookbacks etc. My assets would cover things for 5 (or more) years. If I need to move out then so be it (we're really contemplating a hard core nursing home scenario anyway). DH might finally be able to get a solid nights sleep . If it ends up where I'm able to stay at home but need care, then my LTD and assets should cover things for a decent amount of time. We'd have to move to a LCOLA area but should still be ok. Yes, I added some edits and links. They both had to pay back the funds and served jail time. In addition to housing she also took SSDI and medical benefits.
I was curious how the police authorities would gather "evidence". In the search warrant they stated they were looking for photo albums, family pictures, anniversary cards etc.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 7, 2014 18:31:35 GMT -5
Also to be clear, my assets represent about 2/3 of the marital pool. We're not talking about a scenario where I transfer 100% to him and become broke on paper so they can cash in on the taxpayer's dime. My first concern would be about protecting the home for DD. In our area the Medicare asset allowance doesn't go far and the house would have to be sold if I needed long term nursing home care. Considering what I bring to the table, I feel fine about exhausting that and leaving DH and DD with something other then poverty. If that makes me evil or wrong then I own it 100%. I don't know if you remember but I've had to do some research on this for my father. He's definitely skating the law and I hope it doesn't wind up hurting his girlfriend. He qualifies for the poverty level Medicaid coverage because his only income is SS of $1160/mth. They are not married and he truly doesn't have assets. But in a spectacular DIY estate planning move they put him on title so they could get a reverse mortgage. Then they quitclaimed him off title later. I don't know how thorough Medicaid is with their asset recovery program but I think if he dies within the 5 year look back period she could have a problem if someone checks out the county recorder's documents.
I think she has a plausible defense in that the only "asset" he gained is a life estate in the property. That's not a marketable asset to anyone else. But it could be a real hassle for her and who needs that in their 80s.
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