Another child left in a car

[muttleynfelix]

www.kctv5.com/story/26204496/strangers-step-in-to-help-child-left-in-hot-car-while-mother-shopped

This story has so much bad on all sides IMO.  Yes the mom should absolutely not have left her child alone in a car on a 90 degree day - it was absolutely dangerous.  But complete strangers withheld her child from her.  What do they expect?  You tell the mom she can't have her kid back, I think you can expect to get punched. 

The officer's report said that the witnesses told Pasco to calm down and that they had called police, but she responded that they should give her daughter back to her so they can leave. Witnesses then said that Pasco approached them and tried to pull the little girl from their arms.

[Lizard Queen]

Yeah, I don't think that's legal either.

[Sam_2.0]

Ahh, good to see my hometown keep making the news I would be pissed if they wouldn't give me my own kid, but maybe they were scared she would run & the cops wouldn't get her? I am glad the little one is fine and hope the mess gets sorted out soon.

The one that makes me really sad is the foster dad from Wichita They are supposedly charging him with murder. From what I've seen of the case it really just was a stupid mistake and not like the guy in GA who appears to have done it on purpose.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

This is along the same lines as a couple who called the cops on a woman who left her child in the car.  The woman got pissed off at them, and ran them over with the car.


kdvr.com/2014/07/29/couple-says-they-were-hit-injured-while-reporting-a-child-locked-in-a-hot-car/

Sorry, Mutt.....the parent was going to run away with the child and the only way to keep the woman there was to keep the child.  The child had signs of hyperthermia, and you think that she should have been given back to the woman who left her in the car?

[movingforward]

Aug 6, 2014 12:25:04 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Yeah, I don't think that's legal either.

I am actually not sure... are they allowed to make a citizens arrest?  They detained the woman until officers showed up which sounds like a citizens arrest to me .  Maybe mid or swamp know for sure.

[Sam_2.0]

Aug 6, 2014 12:32:23 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Aug 6, 2014 12:25:04 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Yeah, I don't think that's legal either.

I am actually not sure... are they allowed to make a citizens arrest?  They detained the woman until officers showed up which sounds like a citizens arrest to me .  Maybe mid or swamp know for sure.

We sure have a lot of Barney Fife's running around trying to make citizens' arrests Anyone else get that mental picture whenever someone mentions it?

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out though - whether concerned citizens have the right to detain a child against a parent's wishes.

[Lizard Queen]

Aug 6, 2014 12:32:23 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Aug 6, 2014 12:25:04 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Yeah, I don't think that's legal either.

I am actually not sure... are they allowed to make a citizens arrest?  They detained the woman until officers showed up which sounds like a citizens arrest to me .  Maybe mid or swamp know for sure.

Yeah, I should have said that I'm not sure. I've heard stories of lawsuits of store security detaining people, and the store lost.
They could have found the woman afterward with the license plate. The main issue was making sure the kid was okay though.

[muttleynfelix]

Mich - I don't think there is a good answer either way.  I would hope that we could be convinced to wait in AC for the police together - await possible medical attention together.  It seems like there were a number of people there, so hopefully someone would stay on the line with the police.  I don't think withholding a child from a mother is going to get a good response.  I don't know what i would have tried to do, but I don't think you can be surprised when you get punched in that situation.  That said - the mom shouldn't have been surprised that someone was trying to help her child either. Like I said, I think that it was pretty sh!tty all around. 

[muttleynfelix]

BTW Mich - THat story is awful! Some people are just crazy!

[hoops902]

::They detained the woman until officers showed up which sounds like a citizens arrest to me .::

I believe the woman was only detained after she attacked them, which I would imagine they could argue self defense.  Keeping her child away from her isn't detaining the woman...I just don't know if that part is legal or not.  I would guess there is something somewhere about being able to rescue a child you see being abused by their parent?

[souldoubt]

I'm far from a lawyer but it sounds like child endangerment to me and the people had the best interest of the kid in mind when they held onto her while waiting for the cops.  The mom was trying to leave the scene of what I hope is a crime.      

[Opti]

Aug 6, 2014 13:22:16 GMT -5 @tbird said:

give the kid back, note the license plate and followup with 911.

Probably going to involve more effort than that. If you call the police and

the police come and witness it they can testify as part of their jobs that it was

indeed Mom who left the kid in the car, etc. Without that, its going to be a lot

of work on the reporters part plus its likely nothing will happen and the parent

might do it again.

Or even confirm that it was Mom and her car versus someone else.

[Firebird]

But complete strangers withheld her child from her. What do they expect? You tell the mom she can't have her kid back, I think you can expect to get punched.

From the sound of the article, it sounds like she wanted them to give her kid back so she could run out and drive away before the cops arrived.  She didn't want to answer for her dumbass actions. 

I don't blame them for trying to keep her there until the police arrived.  I wouldn't have kept her child from her but I would sure as hell have noted her license plate number so the cops could follow up if they missed her (might have also blocked the door to prevent her leaving). 

That woman deserves to be held liable - her daughter was vomiting all over the place and sweating bullets after they got her inside, she was obviously in great distress.  This isn't one of those iffy "well the kid was perfectly fine so no harm done" scenarios; the girl could have died. 

[Firebird]

I would hope that we could be convinced to wait in AC for the police together - await possible medical attention together.

And risk getting arrested?  Nah.  If she sought medical attention for her kid at all, my bet is she would have done it away from prying eyes.

It sounds to me like her top priority was evading arrest, not making sure her kid was okay. 

[Firebird]

That story about the woman who ran over the couple trying to help her son - WOW!!!!  

She should really go to prison for assault with a deadly weapon.  That's how I feel. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 8, 2014 13:35:55 GMT -5 Firebird said:

That story about the woman who ran over the couple trying to help her son - WOW!!!!  

She should really go to prison for assault with a deadly weapon.  That's how I feel. 

My point was, if a woman was pissed off enough that the cops were called on her to run the couple down, what's to stop her from doing it the same to others?  She was pissed off enough to belt him.  The only thing stopping her was the fact that they had her child.

And I'd bet my Roth that if she had gotten the child and run, that child would NOT have gotten any medical attention whatsoever.  Because to do so would have meant that she would have had to admit to the ER that she left her child in the car - how else would you explain such an overheated child?

[Sam_2.0]

Had a mom in one of my online groups tell the story of her husband leaving their baby in the car just a couple weeks ago She was making dinner and the older kid was going to swim classes. Dad never takes baby but decided to that one time so mom could have a bit of a break. When they get to the pool, older kid (5+) opens the door and runs for the pool. Dad stops to chase after him and forgets baby until they return after class less than an hour later (45 mins or so). Baby is still alive and they go straight to the hospital - miraculously he was absolutely fine. But now CPS is involved and dad is not allowed to be alone with his children for any reason until the full investigation is complete

We did find these products and she's ordered two of them www.babyalert.info/childminder-softclip-system.html I've considered getting one. Maybe not to attach to the carseat but to at least place in the back seat (maybe clip on the middle seatbelt instead).

[Firebird]

Normally I don't drive Babybird around (we only have two carseats - typically one is in DH's car and the other is in my mom's).  Last week, we put one in my car because I was driving her to and from daycare all week. 

Man, I was one paranoid nutcase all week long with these stories crashing around in my head.  When she was in the car with me, I was talking to her every.single.minute to make sure my altered routine (one of the major risk factors) didn't cause me to forget her somewhere.  Then after I dropped her off, my hand was constantly snaking to the backseat - just to make sure her carseat was REALLY empty!

I even tried the bear trick (where you put a stuffed animal in the carseat when the baby's not in it, move it to the front seat when they are to remind yourself that they're back there) but as some other mom (Wisconsin Beth I think) predicted would happen, Babybird just wanted to play with it   So that didn't work out very well. 

But yeah I was probably 10x more careful than I "needed" to be.  It's been so hot here lately... I really got worked up more than once imagining my kid stuck in the car by herself, not able to understand why Mommy wasn't coming back for her 

[greeniis10]

Aug 8, 2014 15:19:52 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Had a mom in one of my online groups tell the story of her husband leaving their baby in the car just a couple weeks ago She was making dinner and the older kid was going to swim classes. Dad never takes baby but decided to that one time so mom could have a bit of a break. When they get to the pool, older kid (5+) opens the door and runs for the pool. Dad stops to chase after him and forgets baby until they return after class less than an hour later (45 mins or so). Baby is still alive and they go straight to the hospital - miraculously he was absolutely fine. But now CPS is involved and dad is not allowed to be alone with his children for any reason until the full investigation is complete

We did find these products and she's ordered two of them www.babyalert.info/childminder-softclip-system.html I've considered getting one. Maybe not to attach to the carseat but to at least place in the back seat (maybe clip on the middle seatbelt instead).

Oh, my!  I don't think "CPS investigation" and "quick resolution" have ever been spoken in the same sentence, but I really hope this whole thing gets cleared up quickly and nothing stays on the Dad's record.

[greeniis10]

Aug 8, 2014 13:29:03 GMT -5 Firebird said:

But complete strangers withheld her child from her. What do they expect? You tell the mom she can't have her kid back, I think you can expect to get punched.

From the sound of the article, it sounds like she wanted them to give her kid back so she could run out and drive away before the cops arrived.  She didn't want to answer for her dumbass actions. 

I don't blame them for trying to keep her there until the police arrived.  I wouldn't have kept her child from her but I would sure as hell have noted her license plate number so the cops could follow up if they missed her (might have also blocked the door to prevent her leaving). 

That woman deserves to be held liable - her daughter was vomiting all over the place and sweating bullets after they got her inside, she was obviously in great distress.  This isn't one of those iffy "well the kid was perfectly fine so no harm done" scenarios; the girl could have died. 

THIS is where the story changes for me.  If the woman was somewhat calm and sane and the daughter was okay (not sweating, not crying, etc.) then I agreed with giving the child back, call 911 and hope for the best.

But at this point? No.  Those people probably saved that little girl's life - bless them.  I also can't help but wonder what other daily neglect that poor girl has endured and probably will continue to with a mother like that. 

[Firebird]

Oh yeah, something else happened that made me think of these car/negligence threads... I came home for lunch last week and my mom, daughter, SIL and nieces were at the pool in our apartment complex.  No one else around. 

Babybird and Babyniece were more than ready for their naps around the time I showed up.  Older niece (you guys might remember her as "Denise" - she's ten now) wanted to hang out by the pool while my mom and SIL took the babies back to the house to put them down for their naps (my mom would have just taken the girls alone, but Babyniece insisted that she wanted her own mommy to put her down). 

So we were all standing there debating whether 10 year old DN could be left there alone for ten minutes while the adults took the girls back to the house.  I couldn't stay with DN myself because I had to go back to work (and realistically it was going to be like 20-30 minutes before SIL rejoined DN at the pool). 

They ended up leaving her there.  Middle of a weekday, no one else around, and obviously nothing happened.  SIL returned without incident and she and DN spent the next few hours lounging by the pool.  Honestly, my biggest worry wasn't that something would happen to DN (she's a good swimmer and wasn't planning to go in the pool anyway, safe neighborhood, etc. etc.) but that some well-meaning person would call the cops upon seeing her alone.  That would have sucked, but IMO it was a risk we (mostly SIL) were willing to take. 

[Firebird]

But at this point? No. Those people probably saved that little girl's life - bless them. I also can't help but wonder what other daily neglect that poor girl has endured and probably will continue to with a mother like that.

Seriously!  Even more so with that little boy in the car of the woman who ran down the couple.  If she has that amount of rage in her toward strangers, who knows what she does to that poor kid when they're alone? 

[Chocolate Lover]

Aug 8, 2014 15:55:10 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Oh yeah, something else happened that made me think of these car/negligence threads... I came home for lunch last week and my mom, daughter, SIL and nieces were at the pool in our apartment complex.  No one else around. 

Babybird and Babyniece were more than ready for their naps around the time I showed up.  Older niece (you guys might remember her as "Denise" - she's ten now) wanted to hang out by the pool while my mom and SIL took the babies back to the house to put them down for their naps (my mom would have just taken the girls alone, but Babyniece insisted that she wanted her own mommy to put her down). 

So we were all standing there debating whether 10 year old DN could be left there alone for ten minutes while the adults took the girls back to the house.  I couldn't stay with DN myself because I had to go back to work (and realistically it was going to be like 20-30 minutes before SIL rejoined DN at the pool). 

They ended up leaving her there.  Middle of a weekday, no one else around, and obviously nothing happened.  SIL returned without incident and she and DN spent the next few hours lounging by the pool.  Honestly, my biggest worry wasn't that something would happen to DN (she's a good swimmer and wasn't planning to go in the pool anyway, safe neighborhood, etc. etc.) but that some well-meaning person would call the cops upon seeing her alone. 

See, that story gets more of a reaction from me than the usual car stories (not the current one being discussed, Mom needs a beating on this one). My dad lost a younger sibling to because he was left with only his maybe 7 year old sister as supervision. IDK where my grandma was or how bad my aunt probably feels to this day about it... but NO ONE under 18 in my family goes near the water alone and they don't particularly like anyone going out by themselves. It's an attitude I've been raised with so I'd have never been able to leave the kid at the pool alone. 

[Firebird]

My dad lost a younger sibling to because he was left with only his maybe 7 year old sister as supervision.

I never would have left DN there supervising her 2 year old sister (and SIL wouldn't have either).  It was just her alone.

And I do see how these things can be tricky judgment calls.  I honestly don't know if I would have been comfortable leaving DN there alone if she were my child.  If she'd been swimming, definitely not.  Anyone can bang their head on the side of a pool and be knocked out long enough to drown.  But she made it very clear she wasn't going anywhere near the water and we believed her (it was overcast and the pool was "too cold" for her).

Obviously, I didn't believe DN was in any danger and that this was her mother's call to make.  Which I guess is a cop out   On the other hand, she IS ten and while freak accidents are always a possibility, I guess I don't see leaving her alone for 20-30 minutes in a safe neighborhood (and a locked pool area) increases them significantly. 

[Waffle]

Aug 8, 2014 15:51:08 GMT -5 greeniis10 said:

Aug 8, 2014 15:19:52 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Had a mom in one of my online groups tell the story of her husband leaving their baby in the car just a couple weeks ago She was making dinner and the older kid was going to swim classes. Dad never takes baby but decided to that one time so mom could have a bit of a break. When they get to the pool, older kid (5+) opens the door and runs for the pool. Dad stops to chase after him and forgets baby until they return after class less than an hour later (45 mins or so). Baby is still alive and they go straight to the hospital - miraculously he was absolutely fine. But now CPS is involved and dad is not allowed to be alone with his children for any reason until the full investigation is complete

We did find these products and she's ordered two of them www.babyalert.info/childminder-softclip-system.html I've considered getting one. Maybe not to attach to the carseat but to at least place in the back seat (maybe clip on the middle seatbelt instead).

Oh, my!  I don't think "CPS investigation" and "quick resolution" have ever been spoken in the same sentence, but I really hope this whole thing gets cleared up quickly and nothing stays on the Dad's record.

Why does that dad get a pass in your book?  He was just lucky that his baby wasn't harmed.

[Chocolate Lover]

Aug 8, 2014 16:05:51 GMT -5 Firebird said:

My dad lost a younger sibling to because he was left with only his maybe 7 year old sister as supervision.

I never would have left DN there supervising her 2 year old sister (and SIL wouldn't have either).  It was just her alone.

And I do see how these things can be tricky judgment calls.  I honestly don't know if I would have been comfortable leaving DN there alone if she were my child.  If she'd been swimming, definitely not.  Anyone can bang their head on the side of a pool and be knocked out long enough to drown.  But she made it very clear she wasn't going anywhere near the water and we believed her (it was overcast and the pool was "too cold" for her).

Obviously, I didn't believe DN was in any danger and that this was her mother's call to make.  Which I guess is a cop out   On the other hand, she IS ten and while freak accidents are always a possibility, I guess I don't see leaving her alone for 20-30 minutes in a safe neighborhood (and a locked pool area) increases them significantly. 

It was totally her mother's call to make and probably a very reasonably made call. I just have such a knee jerk reaction to these scenarios because of what I know/how I was raised around water.  

Just to be perfectly clear, I wasn't making any judgement on your SIL for leaving her kid there, just saying I couldn't have. 

[Firebird]

Why does that dad get a pass in your book? He was just lucky that his baby wasn't harmed.

It was an accident.  The law treats legitimate accidents differently than deliberate neglect. 

I do get where you're coming from but even parents whose babies die after being accidentally left in cars often aren't charged with any crimes.  The feeling seems to be that having to live with what happened to their babies is punishment enough and I tend to agree

[Firebird]

Just to be perfectly clear, I wasn't making any judgement on your SIL for leaving her kid there, just saying I couldn't have.

Oh, no worries.  I didn't think you were.  Certainly there were plenty of good reasons to tell DN to get off her tush and come with the group

I don't think it's the least bit unreasonable to have a policy of "kids are never near water alone, period."  I myself had a near-drowning accident at age 18 and I've been swimming all my life, so it really can happen to anyone. 

[Chocolate Lover]

Aug 8, 2014 16:15:01 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Just to be perfectly clear, I wasn't making any judgement on your SIL for leaving her kid there, just saying I couldn't have.

Oh, no worries.  I didn't think you were.  Certainly there were plenty of good reasons to tell DN to get off her tush and come with the group

I don't think it's the least bit unreasonable to have a policy of "kids are never near water alone, period."  I myself had a near-drowning accident at age 18 and I've been swimming all my life, so it really can happen to anyone. 

I just didn't want to leave that hanging since I'm out of here soon and won't be back all weekend.  I get enough judgment in my life, I try to not spread it around in other people's.  (In laws excepted, right?) 

[Firebird]

Absolutely, in-laws don't count when it comes to judgment