Madoff: They were "greedy" & lawyers getting rich!

[Deleted]

Madoff said that all his victims were "greedy" in his last interviews : money.cnn.com/2011/02/28/news/companies/madoff_ponzi/index.htm
So what does that make him?

"Now if you listen to [them,] they're living out of Dumpsters and they don't have any money, and I'm sure it's a traumatic experience to some, but I made a lot of money for people.Does it justify it, no? "

Nice logic. I stole your retirement funds but that's ok because I made millions for Henry over there!

"He also claimed that the hedge funds and banks were complicit."
I will give him that, because I also believe that they either knew it was a ponzi scheme or at least suspected something. But it was ok since they were making money off it.

"Look, imagine going home every night not being able to tell your wife, living with this ax over your head, not telling your sons, my brother, seeing them every day in the business and not being able to confide in them."
I call bull on this. There is no way he kept his family in the dark... I don't believe it for one second.

But on the bright side we have some some winners in all this: money.cnn.com/2011/02/16/news/companies/madoff_assets_lawyers_payments/index.htm?iid=EL

The Securities Investor Protection Corp. (SIPC), an industry-sponsored organization that provides financial protection to investors, has paid more than $290 million to law firms and consultants since Madoff's scheme fell apart in 2008

This includes fees of nearly $128 million for Baker & Hostetler, the law firm that is spearheading the recovery of stolen property. . The firm's Irving Picard, who was appointed to serve as trustee by the federal bankruptcy court overseeing the case, is being paid an additional $3.2 million.

SIPC said it has paid another $10 million to additional law firms "around the world."

In addition, the organization has paid nearly $150 million to consultants, including $84 million to FTI Consulting, $48 million to AlixPartners, $2.5 million to Renaissance Associates and about $10 million to others.

and it goes on...

[zuzu]

Some people will try to justify anything.

[Deleted]

Feb 28, 2011 13:14:06 GMT -5 zuzu said:

Some people will try to justify anything.

Yep, an here is my favorite part:

But the Ponzi schemer himself claims that he's not that bad, at least according to his prison therapist, who told him that he's a "good person."

"You're absolutely not a sociopath," said the therapist, according to Madoff. "You have morals. You have remorse

Yep, he has morals
Were did he hide his morals when he was stealing people's money?

[zuzu]

A lot of people have remorse. More for getting caught than for doing something wrong.

[reader79]

I think that if he could have, he would have gladly gone to his grave without revealing his scheme. If you recall, he had bonus checks written out for employees that he wanted to give out before he turned himself in. Happy Holidays - here's a check that you can never cash!

[Deleted]

Feb 28, 2011 13:25:19 GMT -5 zuzu said:

A lot of people have remorse. More for getting caught than for doing something wrong.

AMEN to that

[zuzu]

Thanks!

[Deleted]

Feb 28, 2011 13:28:17 GMT -5 reader79 said:

I think that if he could have, he would have gladly gone to his grave without revealing his scheme. If you recall, he had bonus checks written out for employees that he wanted to give out before he turned himself in. Happy Holidays - here's a check that you can never cash!

Really? I must have missed that part.
What a SOB!

[zibazinski]

He also says the gov't is one big ponzi scheme. Well he's right about that!!!

[Deleted]

Feb 28, 2011 13:47:49 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

He also says the gov't is one big ponzi scheme. Well he's right about that!!!

All of us in YM already knew about that, so nothing new to us.

[zuzu]

Yes but for now it's legal. Maybe he just should have started his own country.

[mithrin]

"I would have loved for them to not lose anything, but that was a risk they were well aware of by investing in the market," Madoff wrote in an e-mail to The New York Times that was quoted as part of an interview published Wednesday.

Bernie is clearly delusional. For one, his 'clients' weren't investing in the market, since he was diverting the funds for himself. Exactly how were they supposed to "not lose anything" when he's taking their money to live the high life, pay generous salaries to his family members, and pay other investors the crazy profits he was claiming to be making for them?

[SVT]

Well I agree when he said they (his customers) were greedy. But yeah, he was too.

[whoisjohngalt]

He destroyed many people's lives, including members of his own family. If he can still justify his actions after that, there is no soul left there. And that's between him and whoever he prays to at night. I hope he shuts up soon, so he doesn't give any "brilliant" ideas to another scum bag out there and doesn't insult the tragedies that he caused

Lena

[kansasflower]

It is appalling that he can be so nonchalant about the repercussions of his actions after his own son committed suicide.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one that finds it odd there is $290 million to pay lawyers but so many investors have still lost all of their money?

[cytoglycerine]

Feb 28, 2011 19:30:19 GMT -5 kansasflower said:

It is appalling that he can be so nonchalant about the repercussions of his actions after his own son committed suicide.

It's true. This part for me indicates that the therapist may be wrong about him not being a sociopath....Or maybe he just doesn't care about his son. Either way, the guy's a creep.

[Deleted]

Feb 28, 2011 19:20:59 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

I hope he shuts up soon, so he doesn't give any "brilliant" ideas to another scum bag out there and doesn't insult the tragedies that he caused

Lena

A bit too late for that

He told the magazine that his "notoriety impresses" the other prisoners. "It shouldn't, but it does."

[Deleted]

Feb 28, 2011 19:36:13 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Am I the only one that finds it odd there is $290 million to pay lawyers but so many investors have still lost all of their money?

I think the reasoning behind is that the lawyers will pay for themselves at the end since they will help recover part of the money:

[mithrin]

Mar 1, 2011 0:24:29 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Feb 28, 2011 19:36:13 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Am I the only one that finds it odd there is $290 million to pay lawyers but so many investors have still lost all of their money?

I think the reasoning behind is that the lawyers will pay for themselves at the end since they will help recover part of the money:

Actually, in the article it mentions that the legal fees are being paid by the SIPC, and are NOT coming out of the recovered money that will be distributed back to the victims.

The SIPC is similar to the FDIC, but for brokerages. It gets its funding from the brokerages by charging a fee, so the legal fees aren't coming out of our taxes either.

edit: Also, no one is out ALL of their money anymore. The SIPC covered the first 500K of each investors losses, for claims that it deemed legitimate (it would reject claims from those who had a net gain from Madoff, banks and brokerage houses that are considered 'sophisticated investors' who should have done due diligence, etc.). For those who still have not gotten back what they put in, more will be coming from the money recovered by the trustee. Of course, even if somehow ALL of the money could be recovered, it would only be enough to pay back everyone for what they deposited--not for what they thought they had from Madoff's phony balance sheets. All those profits never existed, but people will still think of their loss in this whole mess as the highest amount shown on their fake balance sheets minus what they recover, not their contributions minus recovery.

Just look at the Picower case. He invested $619 million with Madoff over time, but had already withdrawn $7.8 billion. His money had supposedly grown more than 10x! Multiply that by all the investors involved, and there is a huge chasm between the amount of money stolen by Madoff, and the amount he told people their accounts were worth.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"Also, no one is out ALL of their money anymore. The SIPC covered the first 500K of each investors losses, for claims that it deemed legitimate (it would reject claims from those who had a net gain from Madoff, banks and brokerage houses that are considered 'sophisticated investors' who should have done due diligence, etc.). For those who still have not gotten back what they put in, more will be coming from the money recovered by the trustee.":::...

I saw something about this on the news yesterday. Bernie was implying that nobody lost their principal investments -- only gains if any. Really?

[mithrin]

Mar 1, 2011 15:58:23 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"Also, no one is out ALL of their money anymore. The SIPC covered the first 500K of each investors losses, for claims that it deemed legitimate (it would reject claims from those who had a net gain from Madoff, banks and brokerage houses that are considered 'sophisticated investors' who should have done due diligence, etc.). For those who still have not gotten back what they put in, more will be coming from the money recovered by the trustee.":::...

I saw something about this on the news yesterday. Bernie was implying that nobody lost their principal investments -- only gains if any. Really?

That doesn't sound right. The whole problem with a Ponzi scheme is that the ONLY source of money is principal investments. Then the money is used to pay the supposed profits to investors making withdrawals, and to pay all the expenses (salaries, high life for Bernie, etc). So unless Bernie actually was doing some investments, making real profits, but then inflating them to keep investors hooked (which is unlikely); then all that ever existed were the principal investments--and some of that was used up by Bernie & Co.

Now the SIPC did kick in 500K to each investor to help cover losses, but I don't think that would end up making up for all the money lost along the way--besides spending by Bernie and salaries for his family, there's also money withdrawn and spent by investors. Some of those excess withdrawals have been reclaimed, but there are likely many cases where withdrawals were made to pay for living expenses like rent, and the money cannot be recovered.

The more I hear from Bernie, the more it sounds like he has somehow deluded himself into thinking that he didn't actually steal anyone's money, and that it all magically worked out in the end.

In the end, not only did he rob his investors of some percentage of their principal investments that will never be recovered, but he also robbed them of the earning potential of those investments, had they invested with an honest broker. I'm sure that many of the smaller investors will end up with full recovery of principal, when both the 500K from SIPC and the recovered money is taken into account. But their retirement can still be ruined if all they get back is their principal, but have lost over a decade of growth potential.

[mithrin]

Mar 2, 2011 18:22:10 GMT -5 @chef241 said:

Bernie is a pathological liar. He even deluded himself into thinking he did nothing wrong. I am surprised that another inmate has not killed him because his actions were reprehensible, and he showed no remorse for his behavior.

That's not surprising at all. Being a liar and without remorse are not traits that other inmates care about. A lot of them share those traits. The ones who have a hard time in prison are pedophiles and child abusers because enough other inmates have kids that their parental instincts kick in.

Sure, some of Bernie's victims were grandma's who had their retirement investments stolen, but while many inmates have grandma's, not so many of them have grandma's that have enough money to put much into investments anyway. They see Bernie as stealing from those who already have a lot of money. If anything, they're going to respect him for stealing from the rich (and super-rich) and getting away with it for so long.

[998fbird]

Well I do agree with Bernie that the people he ripped off were greedy, but that doesn't change the fact that Bernie is a lying scum bag.

[haapai]

I followed the link to the original interview and lost track of how many times the phrase "master manipulator" was used.

I don't know what to make of his assertion that he was once making real money on the private investment side, albeit by peeking at order flow and front-running. On one level, it makes sense but I can't help but notice that it went sour just before the records became reliable. Such a believable coincidence!

You also have to notice that the money that he claims to have been making on the investment side (before reliable records begin) was essentially skimmed from brokerage clients.