zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 29, 2014 18:48:42 GMT -5
It seems I attend affluent churches. Who'd a thunk it?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 30, 2014 1:22:51 GMT -5
Interesting.
I agree it was foolish for the parents to co sign on such a large amount of student debt. Though it's a shame the companies can't work out something more reasonable with the parents. Though it does sound like legally they are obligated to pay the debt.
Thecaptain made some good points about how the father of the kids should be helping to pay for the kids and why a single mom had to take out so much debt when so many subsidies are available.
I can understand why student loan debt shouldn't be allowed to be discharged in bankruptcy. Otherwise you'd have people racking up massive debt for school, declaring bankruptcy, then going on the make a good salary. This would be especially true for doctors.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Jul 30, 2014 2:08:42 GMT -5
Thecaptain made some good points about how the father of the kids should be helping to pay for the kids and why a single mom had to take out so much debt when so many subsidies are available.
If she was already addicted while in school, I could see a lot of it going to getting pills. Oxycodone and OxyContin are expensive if you aren't using insurance and are paying cash. People who are getting their supply legitimately don't care because they usually have insurance that pays. The ones that are doing the shady stuff to get meds to abuse or sell them pay more because they won't use their insurance. The DEA said the street value of an oxycodone tablet is ~$1/mg. So a 60 mg tablet would be $60. This is for one pill..
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truthbound
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Post by truthbound on Jul 30, 2014 4:44:56 GMT -5
She died in 2009, she would be 32, that would make her 18 or so when pregnant with the first child. Oh ok I was trying to be polite, should I have said she was a dumbass for having 100k in student loans. I think not being prudent with those loans is appropriate and polite. No you should have said the parent was a dumbass for cosigning the loan. She should have paid for her own loan.
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 30, 2014 5:21:42 GMT -5
Well yeah that too. It's just crazy to me what people do.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 30, 2014 5:38:34 GMT -5
Free housing for the minister is still very common in our area. Many churches own houses and various staff are allowed to live in the housing as part of their compensation package. Again, probably varies widely depending on area of country, costs to maintain housing, breaks given to charities, etc.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 30, 2014 6:13:11 GMT -5
I know some churches are trying to get out of being in real estate but it seems that my old church had a member died and left them her house so now the asst pastor has a home. According to my friend, he would have been better off with the housing allowance because it paid his rent and some utilities because it was so generous.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 30, 2014 6:15:08 GMT -5
I imagine that even if they knew who baby daddy or daddies were, they don't want to lose the kids to them. Sorry they have to suck it up and pay those loans but never co-sign what you aren't willing to pay yourself. No one thinks of a young person dying but this was an addict and the odds are stacked not in her favor.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 30, 2014 6:15:59 GMT -5
Ugh, is it only me but how does an addict get into nursing school? Can you imagine her having access to all those drugs and, worse, being on drugs and working with sick people?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 8:41:11 GMT -5
even leaving lisa mason out of it - I can't find anything about that dr. with with the wrongful death suits except what is linked here - and even on that link - I can't even see the quote made from it here....I get a page with a lot of beige lines on it. So - I'm very unwilling to buy into these being the same people..... the wrongful death suit sites the death as being "drug related" while the student loan says "liver failure", wrongful death says RN, while student loans says "studying to be a nurse" (I assume not yet an RN?). They both say she died from liver failure. This is from the wrongful death link. Her death, according to an autopsy by the Office of Medical Investigator, was attributed to liver necrosis caused by ingested and/or injected medication. The OMI also found acetaminophen toxicity. Acetaminophen is frequently combined with opiates for pain.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Jul 30, 2014 12:10:37 GMT -5
Ugh, is it only me but how does an addict get into nursing school? Can you imagine her having access to all those drugs and, worse, being on drugs and working with sick people? Addicts get into nursing school because they are good at hiding it and unless she was arrested for it, it would be hard to prove that she was really an addict (It does say in the article the Lisa that died of prescription abuse had a "history of dependence" but a history with who? Her parents? If so, they aren't going to tell the school.. if they were willing to co-sign $100k in loans, they would probably be willing to say nothing about her addiction). Addicts to pain meds are really hard to detect or get caught. They are using medications that are legal (prescriptions) vs. things like crack or heroin (if you got caught with these, you would get arrested) and are usually complaining of pain, which is difficult to determine objectively. Most doctors don't want their patients in pain so, if a patient keeps claiming they have pain, the doctor will give them a prescription so they don't suffer. The difficult part is determining who is lying about their pain and who isn't. What makes it harder is that everyone's pain tolerance is different. Some people can have horrific disabilities (accident, cancer, etc) and claim they have little pain. Others get a hang nail and scream bloody murder. It's hard to tell those people from the addicts. It is scary to think of an addict as a nurse. She would probably be neglecting her patients, stealing their meds, or doing something dangerous..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 12:13:31 GMT -5
Addicts are drawn to medical professions like pedophiles to the priesthood.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jul 30, 2014 12:41:22 GMT -5
Free housing for the minister is still very common in our area. Many churches own houses and various staff are allowed to live in the housing as part of their compensation package. Again, probably varies widely depending on area of country, costs to maintain housing, breaks given to charities, etc. Also the housing allowance is not taxable as long as it is used for rent/housing. So it is a way to pay non taxable money to a minister.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jul 30, 2014 12:42:54 GMT -5
Moral of the story - if you co-sign for anything, take out a term life policy on the other party large enough to cover the financial obligation you would be stuck with if they died. Seems like a policy for that amount on a young person would be super cheap.
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kjto1
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Post by kjto1 on Jul 30, 2014 15:40:36 GMT -5
Moral of the story - if you co-sign for anything, take out a term life policy on the other party large enough to cover the financial obligation you would be stuck with if they died. Seems like a policy for that amount on a young person would be super cheap. How many people will that help? There are adult in the world willing to skip out on the loan payments, and the co-signers would still be stuck with the hardship without the death to collect the insurance on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 15:48:31 GMT -5
Moral of the story - if you co-sign for anything, take out a term life policy on the other party large enough to cover the financial obligation you would be stuck with if they died. Seems like a policy for that amount on a young person would be super cheap. How many people will that help? There are adult in the world willing to skip out on the loan payments, and the co-signers would still be stuck with the hardship without the death to collect the insurance on. If they do that...kill em.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Jul 30, 2014 15:49:00 GMT -5
Moral of the story - if you co-sign for anything, take out a term life policy on the other party large enough to cover the financial obligation you would be stuck with if they died. Seems like a policy for that amount on a young person would be super cheap. How many people will that help? There are adult in the world willing to skip out on the loan payments, and the co-signers would still be stuck with the hardship without the death to collect the insurance on. Isn't it great that saying "no, I won't cosign for your loans" is an option?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 19:16:09 GMT -5
This is very tragic, regardless of what could / should have happened, on many levels.
I know it's good advice to tell people to take out a life insurance policy if they co-sign for their kids' student loans. But how many of us have actually taken out a life insurance policy on their young adult child? Psychologically, it's an EXTREMELY difficult thing to do. I did it, because I had to. DS1 took a gap year during grad school, and did internships in 3 different places. One was the UN in NY, and they required proof of life insurance before they would accept anybody for an internship.
When I took out that policy, I had the option of either renewing it myself, or turning the question over to the beneficiary (DS1) for renewal. Frankly, I checked the box turning it over to DS1 (who was back in school the following year).
Psychologically, it was a very difficult thing to do, although obviously I did it, so DS1 could do his internship there. But I'm not sure I would have done it if I hadn't been "forced" to.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 30, 2014 20:53:04 GMT -5
Don't most life insurance policies not cover you if you die doing something illegal? I know the ones i looked into for ex had those exclusions. I would think ODing on drugs would mean there would be no payout. So I honestly don't think this would have made a bit of difference.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 22:10:58 GMT -5
Don't most life insurance policies not cover you if you die doing something illegal? I know the ones i looked into for ex had those exclusions. I would think ODing on drugs would mean there would be no payout. So I honestly don't think this would have made a bit of difference. I don't think that's a normal exclusion. I read ours pretty closely last summer in preparation for the possibility, and the only exclusion was a suicide one for the first two years.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Jul 31, 2014 0:18:04 GMT -5
Don't most life insurance policies not cover you if you die doing something illegal? I know the ones i looked into for ex had those exclusions. I would think ODing on drugs would mean there would be no payout. So I honestly don't think this would have made a bit of difference. I would think that something like this wouldn't be classified as an illegal activity. Because she had a prescription for the drugs, she had a legal right to have/use the meds. I'm guessing the coroner's report would just say as cause of death "liver failure" or at worst, accidental overdose. I would think that even an accidental overdose wouldn't be considered an illegal activity because the drugs are legal.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 31, 2014 8:36:03 GMT -5
Can't skydive either.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Jul 31, 2014 12:19:04 GMT -5
Don't most life insurance policies not cover you if you die doing something illegal? I know the ones i looked into for ex had those exclusions. I would think ODing on drugs would mean there would be no payout. So I honestly don't think this would have made a bit of difference. She OD'd on prescription drugs. That's not illegal.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Jul 31, 2014 15:17:33 GMT -5
I didn't find anything on snopes. That would be a good submission.
I submitted the article. We'll see what happens. I don't know how long this will take.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 31, 2014 17:54:02 GMT -5
Don't most life insurance policies not cover you if you die doing something illegal? I know the ones i looked into for ex had those exclusions. I would think ODing on drugs would mean there would be no payout. So I honestly don't think this would have made a bit of difference. I haven't heard of that - but it would be pretty limiting to many policy holders, I would think drugs, drunk driving, bank robbery.....so many thinks not covered....technically - even speeding? trespassing? jay walking? where would the line end? they'd be a bit worthless, really. I found an article on some typical exclusions. www.thesimpledollar.com/life-insurance-loopholes-to-avoid/I know I've seen the illegal activity and drugs/alcohol ones because that is why I never purchased a policy for my ex. I figured if he goes out it will be drinking or doing something illegal. The policy would be worthless.
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 31, 2014 20:06:11 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 19:40:45 GMT -5
I'm glad for them, but frankly, that's going to last them 5.5 months.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 1, 2014 20:46:45 GMT -5
Will they pay on their loan with it?
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Aug 1, 2014 21:38:40 GMT -5
This will piss you off even more... she went to a community college (San Bernardino Valley College) for ~2 years for nursing... www.today.com/parents/after-daughters-death-parents-plead-forgiveness-her-200k-student-loan-1D79996678"In 2007, Lisa graduated from San Bernardino Valley College and began her career as a critical-care nurse. Just two years later, the single mother died suddenly, due to liver failure, at age 27..." The cost of attendance at this college is $17k per year (Including living expenses). www.valleycollege.edu/student-services/specialized-counseling-services/international-students/estimated-cost The estimated annual cost of attending San Bernardino Valley College is $17,500, including tuition and fees of about $6,000, health insurance and the cost of living. This money was spent on drugs and now they are fundraising to get out of paying it... how Christian... ETA: The costs listed are the costs NOW. I'm sure they were a lot cheaper in 2006-07 when she was attending (This was before the CA budget meltdown in 2009-11). Community college costs in CA (This is the type of school San Bernardino Valley is) have been RIDICULOUSLY low for years. I went to a CA community college in 2000 and it was $13/credit-hour. They didn't raise substantially until 2009 when the state had no money. Also, with 3 children, she would definitely qualify for a Board of Governors fee waiver, which puts tuition & fees at ZERO. She would have also qualified for the Pell Grant, CalGrants, and SEOG grants, making going to school profitable for her and no loans needed. I have several relatives who were single parents and went through CA community & state schools in the early 2000s. It was a relative bonanza, as the state provides for your Medical (Medi-Cal), cash aid (TANF), food stamps (SNAP), provided daycare for your children, and book and mileage stipends (through CalWORKS). After the state pays for everything, you end up with cash in your pocket from the Pell, SEOG, and CalGrants. It was more profitable to be going to school as a single parent than working. I know Shasta has mentioned that people in her area will use this to their advantage (Sign up for 1 or 2 classes to get the Pell/CalGrants and are low income so they don't pay any costs).
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 1, 2014 21:58:23 GMT -5
I'm not surprised. The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. Wonder if the paper will post the WHOLE story? I bet those that donated feel like suckers.
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