Openness and honesty in romantic relationships

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2014 12:06:27 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

Jul 15, 2014 10:28:21 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

There is openness and then there is too much information.




With this whole debacle with our former pediatrician I've learned things about people who were a tad too vocal. Sometimes there are things that once learned you can't unlearn about people and it colors your opinion of them from that point forward. There are times when honesty/openness is not the best policy and you should really not say anything.

I lose a lot of respect for people around political season time, or like with the Hobby Lobby case. Amazing the stuff people will rant about on Facebook.

DH and I are honest with each other, even if it's embarassing or seems to be something little. He will call and tell me when he has a work lunch with the pretty office girl, just to give me the heads-up even though I don't worry about it at all and never asked that he call me first. Just something he feels like doing to keep things in check so it won't be an issue later. We talk about where we spend money and have access to each other's accounts. There have been times when I messed things up in our billpay account and bounced a check because I got the dates wrong, but I let him know even though it would be easier to not mention it since he rarely checks that account. We tell each other where we are going and when we will be back. Seems like staying in communication on the small things has helped to prevent any big issues from creeping in so far.

I think that maybe his efforts to avoid confusion by telling you about work lunches with the pretty office girl and your willingness to tell him about bouncing a check even though he rarely checks the account help cement your trust in each other. I don't think couples have to tell each other every little thing, but I do think giving your partner a heads up on something that could misconstrued or have to be explained later is good. Small things do help paint the big picture.

Just my opinion. I'll add my usual disclaimer that I'm not married.

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2014 12:09:41 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

If my DH had an affair, I would leave - immediately. We have no children so we have nothing tying us together except a commitment to be together. Why would I stay with a man who doesn't want to stay with me?

I could unwind the property pretty fast - it's only "stuff." I have 10 more years to work so I have time to squirrel away more $$.

It's only "stuff." The relationship is what matters to me, so if he's going to break our commitment - I'm gone.

JMHO YMMV

Sometimes they do want to stay with their spouse. They just want to be able to do other things too.

[justme]

Jul 15, 2014 10:18:32 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

For me, if I ask you a question, I want you to tell me the truth. The flip side of that is, for the hard questions (and answers) I've learned to not ask the question if I'm not prepared to hear an answer that might hurt.

I've heard people say they lie to their SO to keep them from being hurt. That's usually about something big like infidelity and I think the excuse about lying to protect their SO is bullshit. They lie so they can keep doing what they're doing.

I just don't like being deceived or lied to. In relationships, lying takes away my freedom to choose. If you have a side chick and I ask you about it, tell me the truth and let me deal with it. I might not care about it enough to kick you to the curb. But it's MY choice to make, don't try to choose for me by lying to me. I feel that way about anything a SO might be doing that's contrary to what we've agreed on or could cause me harm, not just infidelity.

I do agree that not everyone that says they want honesty really wants to hear the truth. I do. Honesty is a really big deal to me.

So   to the bolded part. I am a grown ass adult and perfectly capable of making decisions for myself once I have the facts, I don't need someone treating my like a child and deciding they know what's best for me.

I'm very big on honesty. Due to previous situations I have an almost visceral reaction when I find out someone's lying to me. You don't have to tell me every little thing, but don't lie to me. 

[kittensaver]

Jul 15, 2014 12:34:58 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jul 15, 2014 12:09:41 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

If my DH had an affair, I would leave - immediately. We have no children so we have nothing tying us together except a commitment to be together. Why would I stay with a man who doesn't want to stay with me?

I could unwind the property pretty fast - it's only "stuff." I have 10 more years to work so I have time to squirrel away more $$.

It's only "stuff." The relationship is what matters to me, so if he's going to break our commitment - I'm gone.

JMHO YMMV

Sometimes they do want to stay with their spouse. They just want to be able to do other things too.

Fair enough - it just ain't happenin' with me . . . IF what you mean by "other things" cheating on the marriage vows. He can't have it both ways, and neither can I, if we want to stay together in a marriage.

My DH is given plenty of latitude to "do other things," as am I. We have traveled separately, pursued interests separately, had innocent lunches with opposite sex co-workers, etc etc etc. None of those things involve breaking a vow to be faithful.

[whoisjohngalt]

Jul 15, 2014 12:29:59 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Jul 15, 2014 12:22:38 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Not if it effects your life in many different ways.

I just don't know anybody who would sugar-coated in-law problems.
Like 'your mother and father are great'! Have you ever heard that IF they are not in fact great?
I think we are always love to  hate our in-laws

I can assure you, I don't like the fact that I dislike my IL's.  It made my marriage much harder.  I would have loved to get along with them, but such as life.

In any case, pointing out all their faults and problems to my husband was not honesty.  It was just plain stupid.

[tloonya]

Jul 15, 2014 12:44:47 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Jul 15, 2014 12:29:59 GMT -5 tloonya said:

I just don't know anybody who would sugar-coated in-law problems.
Like 'your mother and father are great'! Have you ever heard that IF they are not in fact great?
I think we are always love to  hate our in-laws

I can assure you, I don't like the fact that I dislike my IL's.  It made my marriage much harder.  I would have loved to get along with them, but such as life.

In any case, pointing out all their faults and problems to my husband was not honesty.  It was just plain stupid.

Maybe. But what could you have done differently? praise them? I wouldn't. Idk

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2014 12:43:31 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Jul 15, 2014 12:34:58 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Sometimes they do want to stay with their spouse. They just want to be able to do other things too.

Fair enough - it just ain't happenin' with me . . . IF what you mean by "other things" cheating on the marriage vows. He can't have it both ways, and neither can I, if we want to stay together in a marriage.

My DH is given plenty of latitude to "do other things," as am I. We have traveled separately, pursued interests separately, had innocent lunches with opposite sex co-workers, etc etc etc. None of those things involve breaking a vow to be faithful.

kittensaver, I wasn't poking at you. I don't think it's ok to do "other things" behind a spouses back. Your comment just reminded of some people that I know IRL whose marriages kind of confuse me because they do want it (and often get it) both ways. I find it interesting how people's relationships and marriages work. I apologize if I offended you or got you riled up.

[cktc]

Honesty and integrity are huge for me. If you have to be dishonest in order to keep up the illusion of integrity, I’d rather bounce.

If honesty is about other matters, it absolutely helps the relationship. I’d want to know if my partner doesn’t feel appreciated, is unhappy in his profession, didn’t really want to live in a certain area, is overwhelmed by family obligations, etc…

I want my partner to be happy, even if sometimes we disagree, or it will make things more difficult for a while. You have to know what is going on to make informed decisions and act in the best interest of the partnership.

If one partner is lying and acting unilaterally in the best interest of the relationship, it’s rarely in the best interest of the relationship.

[kittensaver]

Jul 15, 2014 13:03:00 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jul 15, 2014 12:43:31 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Fair enough - it just ain't happenin' with me . . . IF what you mean by "other things" cheating on the marriage vows. He can't have it both ways, and neither can I, if we want to stay together in a marriage.

My DH is given plenty of latitude to "do other things," as am I. We have traveled separately, pursued interests separately, had innocent lunches with opposite sex co-workers, etc etc etc. None of those things involve breaking a vow to be faithful.

kittensaver, I wasn't poking at you. I don't think it's ok to do "other things" behind a spouses back. Your comment just reminded of some people that I know IRL whose marriages kind of confuse me because they do want it (and often get it) both ways. I find it interesting how people's relationships and marriages work. I apologize if I offended you or got you riled up.

Oh gosh, not at all! I was just responding to and questioning what you meant . . . if "other things" was some kind of code for cheating? Because I totally get that other people will make choices for their relationships . . . and that's okay - for them. Personally, I have no other reason to be married except to be in a loving, caring and committed relationship. Marriage is not something I need - it is only something I want. And in my world it means sticking together in all aspects, or why bother. YMMV

[Deleted]

Yes, "other things" meant other people lol.

It's actually something I've considered bringing up on the boards before.... why do people stay married and constantly cheat or stay with someone that constantly cheats. It's something that's puzzled me for years, and I see it happening so much that it seems almost normal.

But I never really started the discussion because I figured no one on YM would admit to being in one of those marriages, so everybody would be guessing just like me.

[whoisjohngalt]

Jul 15, 2014 12:53:22 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Jul 15, 2014 12:44:47 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

I can assure you, I don't like the fact that I dislike my IL's.  It made my marriage much harder.  I would have loved to get along with them, but such as life.

In any case, pointing out all their faults and problems to my husband was not honesty.  It was just plain stupid.

Maybe. But what could you have done differently? praise them? I wouldn't. Idk

I could have  not say anything  or not say as much as I did and I certainly didn't repeat it for years.

[kittensaver]

Jul 15, 2014 13:14:11 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Yes, "other things" meant other people lol.

It's actually something I've considered bringing up on the boards before.... why do people stay married and constantly cheat or stay with someone that constantly cheats. It's something that's puzzled me for years, and I see it happening so much that it seems almost normal.

But I never really started the discussion because I figured no one on YM would admit to being in one of those marriages, so everybody would be guessing just like me.

Well I think one of the BIG reasons people stay is because of their kids. And in my experience (from the outside looking in) those same folks tend to look the other way and NOT want to know about cheating because then they would have to "face it" and do something - "something" being separation/divorce and its affect on the kids. Financial dependency and family/church/religious expectations also play a role. So does their sense of self-worth, their standing in their community, etc etc etc. It's complicated when outside influences come into play - and I totally "get" that. All that I was trying to say is that for me, I don't have any of those reasons to stay. Therefore, openness and honesty are paramount. But as always: YMMV. 

[whoami]

Jul 15, 2014 12:32:40 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jul 15, 2014 12:06:27 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

I lose a lot of respect for people around political season time, or like with the Hobby Lobby case. Amazing the stuff people will rant about on Facebook.

DH and I are honest with each other, even if it's embarassing or seems to be something little. He will call and tell me when he has a work lunch with the pretty office girl, just to give me the heads-up even though I don't worry about it at all and never asked that he call me first. Just something he feels like doing to keep things in check so it won't be an issue later. We talk about where we spend money and have access to each other's accounts. There have been times when I messed things up in our billpay account and bounced a check because I got the dates wrong, but I let him know even though it would be easier to not mention it since he rarely checks that account. We tell each other where we are going and when we will be back. Seems like staying in communication on the small things has helped to prevent any big issues from creeping in so far.

I think that maybe his efforts to avoid confusion by telling you about work lunches with the pretty office girl and your willingness to tell him about bouncing a check even though he rarely checks the account help cement your trust in each other. I don't think couples have to tell each other every little thing, but I do think giving your partner a heads up on something that could misconstrued or have to be explained later is good. Small things do help paint the big picture.

Just my opinion. I'll add my usual disclaimer that I'm not married.

If my husband told me he had lunch with a pretty girl, I would think that was super weird. He is gone a lot and who he eats lunch with or hangs out with when he's on a layover almost never comes up.

Whether someone is "pretty" is pretty irrelevant if someone is looking for an affair. My cousin is gorgeous but it didn't stop her husband for dumping her for someone else. She was pregnant when he left...so he must have still liked her a couple months before he bailed.

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2014 13:28:26 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Well, I don't actually know my DH has cheated or is cheating.  I just know he claims to be working more than I beleive and he claims to be working or doing "presentation" for work.  When I check up on if he is at the office, he is often not there, but that does not = and affair - He may be really doing what he says he is doing.  If he is, it would be unprofessional for his wife to show up at a client meeting.  I have thought about hiring a PI. but I don't know how much it would cost or if they would actually be able to prove anything either.

Oh bean, the things you've posted in this thread and in previous threads, make it sound like your marriage isn't all that much of a happy one for you. I don't want anyone here to think I'm judging them, everyone has to do what they think is best for themselves at the time. I do get that. And I do wish you the best.

I have a neighbor that persistently pursued me for a while when I first moved here. I was very clear that it wasn't happening every time he went there. I like his wife and I made every effort to be respectful of her even though he wasn't. So when my daughter became an adult, he approached her, which really, really pissed me off and is a whole 'nother story. Anyway, all the neighbors know he's unfaithful, he's had friends want to fight him because their g/f said he tried to get with him.

I have a coworker that out of the blue told me about how he's had other women most of his marriage, he had 2 outside babies and even moved in with a g/f at one point. He's back home with his wife and the conversation started because we were talking about our coworkers retiring. He can't retire because he's still paying child support for one of the outside kids and he said he knows his wife won't help him be able to retire. Ummm, no shit sherlock. I wouldn't help you either. I don't even understand why she's still married to you. Yes, I actually said that since we were having a candid conversation. FWIW, their child together is in her mid 20's.

I could go on and on, but these are the kinds of marriages I don't understand. I know it's none of my business, but it's something I'm really curious about. Because like I said before, it's so common that it almost seems normal but it goes against everything I ever believed about being married. It really makes me feel like I'm naive, but I just don't want to believe that this kind of thing is more normal than how I thought things were suppose to be. I've seriously started to wonder.

[Deleted]

Everybody lies.  (I know I am a big cynic, but I have dated a LOT, and I truly believe this.)

[Sam_2.0]

Jul 15, 2014 13:53:05 GMT -5 whoami said:

Jul 15, 2014 12:32:40 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

I think that maybe his efforts to avoid confusion by telling you about work lunches with the pretty office girl and your willingness to tell him about bouncing a check even though he rarely checks the account help cement your trust in each other. I don't think couples have to tell each other every little thing, but I do think giving your partner a heads up on something that could misconstrued or have to be explained later is good. Small things do help paint the big picture.

Just my opinion. I'll add my usual disclaimer that I'm not married.

If my husband told me he had lunch with a pretty girl, I would think that was super weird. He is gone a lot and who he eats lunch with or hangs out with when he's on a layover almost never comes up.

Whether someone is "pretty" is pretty irrelevant if someone is looking for an affair. My cousin is gorgeous but it didn't stop her husband for dumping her for someone else. She was pregnant when he left...so he must have still liked her a couple months before he bailed.

I call her the pretty girl He just lets me know whenever he goes out with her 1:1, and usually tries to take one of his co-workers with them if possible. We actually do tell each other if we find someone else attractive. It's weird, but if I say it out loud then it's not a secret and life just goes on. Something about keeping things a secret allows issues to start. At least that's what we've seen in some relationships around us. It's not constant, or anything, but we both know that we will find other people attractive at some point. That's just how life is.

[quince]

Honesty is incredibly important to me. I get to make fully informed decisions, damn it. If something is hidden from me and I find out, my anger will be magnified. No such thing as lying to me for my own good.

I am also trying to be more honest...with the little things. My husband prefers I tell him as soon as something bothers me so it can be fixed instead of holding it in and letting it be a stressor. I also do not mind if he tells me I look like hell. Open communication does smooth things out. There is a difference between communicating something is wrong and being an ass about it, of course.

[billisonboard]

Jul 15, 2014 13:28:26 GMT -5 bean29 said:

... I have thought about hiring a PI. ...

Why? It is clear from your postings that you don't give a shit about this man. So he is with another woman (maybe). Why would you wish to prove it? Wait out your time and then be done with him when it it best for you.

[cktc]

Jul 15, 2014 14:39:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 15, 2014 13:28:26 GMT -5 bean29 said:

... I have thought about hiring a PI. ...

Why? It is clear from your postings that you don't give a shit about this man. So he is with another woman (maybe). Why would you wish to prove it? Wait out your time and then be done with him when it it best for you.

You don't just go from loving someone to not caring over night. Especially not once you marry them. There is a lot of emotion tied up in the decision to stay or go. Even once things turn terrible. You are weighing the past against the present, and an unknown future. Is this a good person in crisis, or are you seeing clearly for the first time? You need a tipping point. You need more knowledge. You need truth.

It's hard to understand, but you need to reconcile the good with the bad.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 15, 2014 13:14:11 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Yes, "other things" meant other people lol.

It's actually something I've considered bringing up on the boards before.... why do people stay married and constantly cheat or stay with someone that constantly cheats. It's something that's puzzled me for years, and I see it happening so much that it seems almost normal.

But I never really started the discussion because I figured no one on YM would admit to being in one of those marriages, so everybody would be guessing just like me.

I can see a few situations where the woman would choose to stay. A woman with several children and no job skills is kind of stuck. A woman married to a very powerful man might care more about the lifestyle than him. Or a woman with very low self-esteem who doesn't think she deserves any better

I do think there is a huge difference between a serial cheater and someone who cheats once. My husbands good friend was stationed overseas a few years ago. The stress of being in a danger zone and being away from his family got to him. One night he hooked up with a female colleague. He immediately felt horrible. Once he got home he told my husband and said he had to tell his wife. I told him not to but he did anyway. She tossed him out and they nearly divorced. They finally reunited but their marriage isn't the same. She no longer trusts him and I'm not sure that is something that will ever come back

Cheating is wrong and I'm not sure I could get passed it. But a guy who sleeps around is different than a one time mistake. Still wouldn't want to know because how the hell could you ever trust him again?

[billisonboard]

Jul 15, 2014 15:13:26 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Jul 15, 2014 14:39:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Why? It is clear from your postings that you don't give a shit about this man. So he is with another woman (maybe). Why would you wish to prove it? Wait out your time and then be done with him when it it best for you.

Who said I don't give a shit about him? ... being so unappreciative of his efforts. ... b/c there is always $$ unaccounted for between his gross and the expenses he shows me) ... I truly think he has a personality disorder, ... His harranguing can be very hard to take, ... I have deep reservations about spending retirement with somene with his personality.

He has always refused to go to couselling.

... I told DH he was a Nut Case, invited him to go to counselling, and indicated that pretty much everyone we knew would agree he was being irrational.
...

Hey, I could be totally off base on your feelings towards this irrational nutcase with a personality disorder husband of yours.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 15, 2014 16:26:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 15, 2014 15:13:26 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Who said I don't give a shit about him? ... being so unappreciative of his efforts. ... b/c there is always $$ unaccounted for between his gross and the expenses he shows me) ... I truly think he has a personality disorder, ... His harranguing can be very hard to take, ... I have deep reservations about spending retirement with somene with his personality.

He has always refused to go to couselling.

... I told DH he was a Nut Case, invited him to go to counselling, and indicated that pretty much everyone we knew would agree he was being irrational.
...

Hey, I could be totally off base on your feelings towards this irrational nutcase with a personality disorder husband of yours.

Sorry...this literally made me laugh out loud!

[billisonboard]

Jul 15, 2014 13:14:11 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

.... why do people stay married and constantly cheat ...

Because she is a lousy or disinterested bedroom partner but she is a good partner in other aspects of life.

[kittensaver]

Jul 15, 2014 14:07:11 GMT -5 @ezzie said:

Everybody lies.  (I know I am a big cynic, but I have dated a LOT, and I truly believe this.)

I "lied" to my DH recently. I did it under the guise of "sparing his feelings." And I KNOW that I really did spare them.

One of our foster kitties got sick and died recently . He knew she was in her last hours when he left the house that morning, but he had to go take care of a client with an emergency. I told him I was going to take her back to the rescue agency (and I really at the time intended to do so, I had already contacted them), but by the time I could pull myself together to get out of the house, it was clear she was not going to make it through the car trip. So I allowed her to pass while I held her (*many tears*). Then I wrapped her tiny little body up and put it in the trash can outside the house (no nasty comments, please! - it is the approved method in our city; for health and sanitation reasons they do NOT want animals buried in the yard). DH has a very tender heart, and I knew it would have really distressed him if he knew "she" was sitting in there for two days until collection day.  So when he got home, I just continued to allow him to believe that I dropped her back off at the agency.

So I confess to lying - but I don't think this makes me a bad or untrustworthy person. It's what partners who love and care about each other sometimes do - spare their feelings. YMMV

[bean29]

Hugs Kittensaver.  I know you did the right thing, but I think I would be inclined to bury my pet.  It takes a strong will to do the right thing when your upbringing is to do something else.

[billisonboard]

Jul 15, 2014 16:50:14 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Jul 15, 2014 16:30:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Because she is a lousy or disinterested bedroom partner but she is a good partner in other aspects of life.

Wow, my first inclination was to ask how your are qualfied to make that kind of a statement?  My second inclinatin was to just ignore you, but that just dosn't seem right either.

It remains to be the case that I don't care to discuss my sex life on a message board even if it is quasi anonymous.

Bills would you think that if somone was not too interested in having sex with you that there was a defficiency in you? 

First off, did you think that me post had anything to do with you. I assure you it didn't.
And secondly, yes, I did consider the possibility that I was the one with a deficiency. Being a social science type, I set up a few little experiments to test the theory that I was the problem. Although it is difficult to prove with certainty, the results of those experiments did suggest that I was more than adequate. Later, anecdotal evidence came to my attention that suggested that she proved to be less than adequate in experiments of her own.