What would you put in a marriage contract?

[Deleted]

Do you think there should be standard marriage contracts to outline expectations, or a way to honestly identify differences? What would you put in a marriage contract?

I would want it to focus on expectations for success as well as provisions for a split up. I see it as different than a pre-nup because it would be an agreement of behavior during marriage.  

What would you want in your marriage contract now that you know what you know and are all wise and stuff?

[Deleted]

I think this would be difficult. Stuff changes all the time. 

[sesfw]

The marriage contract says all it needs to right now.

I don't think people really listen to what they are promising.

'For better, for worse ..... for richer, for poorer ......... in sickness and health ....... till death do us part'.

In other words ..... take care of each other.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2014 14:02:14 GMT -5 sesfw said:

The marriage contract says all it needs to right now.

I don't think people really listen to what they are promising.

'For better, for worse ..... for richer, for poorer ......... in sickness and health ....... till death do us part'.

In other words ..... take care of each other.

That isn't a contract, it is part of a religious ceremony. JP's don't use the same statements.

For worse? I want an exclusion on addictions and violence.
For poorer? I want more exclusions on non-agreed expenditures! What about outlining whether the expectation is for both individuals to work outside the home, or the flip side where both definitely want mom or dad to stay home with kids?
Where's the part about being honest with your partner? Or what your intention is for children, past, present and future?

A contract would include interpretation so both parties are agreed on what it means.

[Deleted]

My JP used similar wording, actually.

[Deleted]

I don't think you can really plan most of the stuff you listed, unfortunately.

[swamp]

Sheldon and Amy's relationship agreement would be a good place to start. 

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2014 14:27:31 GMT -5 oped said:

I don't think you can really plan most of the stuff you listed, unfortunately.

Why not? Wouldn't it help outline the premise under which you agree to marry? If the spouse's definition of marriage did not include being monogamous, wouldn't you want to know that?

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2014 14:31:01 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

Jul 13, 2014 14:27:31 GMT -5 oped said:

I don't think you can really plan most of the stuff you listed, unfortunately.

Why not? Wouldn't it help outline the premise under which you agree to marry? If the spouse's definition of marriage did not include being monogamous, wouldn't you want to know that?

I think you discuss it. Some prenups include it.

But to me, who hates to tempt fate, that would be like asking for someone to get a grenade to the shorts, or something similar.

My marriage works because we go with the flow and if stuff happens, we deal.

[Blonde Granny]

Jul 13, 2014 14:24:22 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

Jul 13, 2014 14:02:14 GMT -5 sesfw said:

The marriage contract says all it needs to right now.

I don't think people really listen to what they are promising.

'For better, for worse ..... for richer, for poorer ......... in sickness and health ....... till death do us part'.

In other words ..... take care of each other.

That isn't a contract, it is part of a religious ceremony. JP's don't use the same statements.

For worse? I want an exclusion on addictions and violence.
For poorer? I want more exclusions on non-agreed expenditures! What about outlining whether the expectation is for both individuals to work outside the home, or the flip side where both definitely want mom or dad to stay home with kids?
Where's the part about being honest with your partner? Or what your intention is for children, past, present and future?

A contract would include interpretation so both parties are agreed on what it means.

My goodness, if that's what is required why on earth would anyone bother to get married?  Things do change, they happen, either be willing to deal with those changes or stay single.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2014 15:01:19 GMT -5 Blonde Granny said:

Jul 13, 2014 14:24:22 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

That isn't a contract, it is part of a religious ceremony. JP's don't use the same statements.

For worse? I want an exclusion on addictions and violence.
For poorer? I want more exclusions on non-agreed expenditures! What about outlining whether the expectation is for both individuals to work outside the home, or the flip side where both definitely want mom or dad to stay home with kids?
Where's the part about being honest with your partner? Or what your intention is for children, past, present and future?

A contract would include interpretation so both parties are agreed on what it means.

My goodness, if that's what is required why on earth would anyone bother to get married?  Things do change, they happen, either be willing to deal with those changes or stay single.

If that was the case then there would be no divorce. 

You would stay married if your husband beat you? You would say 'just another one of those changes I have to deal with'? I don't think so. 

[tallguy]

Openness and honesty.  Talk to me, and tell me the truth when you do.  Every single time.

I can deal with anything else. 

[Peace Of Mind]

Do you think there should be standard marriage contracts to outline expectations, or a way to honestly identify differences? What would you put in a marriage contract?

I would want it to focus on expectations for success as well as provisions for a split up. I see it as different than a pre-nup because it would be an agreement of behavior during marriage.

What would you want in your marriage contract now that you know what you know and are all wise and stuff?

Absolutely!  Here is what I put in mine:

1.  All my money is mine.

2.  All your money is mine.

3.  Always listen to what I say and agree enthusiastically.

4.  Sex whenever I want it but if I'm not in the mood go away.

I never did figure out what happened to it but it was "misplaced" at the ceremony.  I married him any way.    

[Blonde Granny]

Lilly, I would know before I married him if he was going to beat me. Guys that do those types of things are not likely to hide that temperament very well.

Since half the marriages in end divorce, it would seem a contract in the beginning isn't worth much anyway.

[Deleted]

I admit I'm more in favor of extensive test runs before major commitment rather than relying on contracts if possible.  

Contracts are only as good as the people agreeing or the enforcement protocols.  Also people often change radically or don't know themselves what they'll be okay with until it happens.  The spirit of cooperation is very important for a personal partnership, rather than more arms length business where you can resent and despise a person but find them useful and abide by contracts for stated periods.

DH would've gotten married within 6 months after meeting.  I told him I needed to be with someone at least 7 years before I could agree to lifetime partnership and legal responsibility for another adult.  I'm pretty guarded, and did not want to rush such an important decision.  Granted, getting past the 7 year itch is no guarantee.  But it's important for me to avoid personal regrets by taking it slow and considering deeply before taking action.  

After 7 years together, I trusted DH a lot and didn't have any hesitations or worries about him.  We got married after 8 years together due to scheduling, but he was trustworthy in real time over and over and over in so many situations, good and bad, stressful and relaxed, a really excellent friend watching out for me like I was for him.  We've moved cross country with what we could fit in our car, supported each other 100% financially for periods, did the long distance thing for work, fixed stuff together, played games and hiked together, just rolling along flanking and tag teaming through life.  We don't make moves until both understand and agree, then we slam something hard because we're moving to the same goal with our skill sets.   

It might all fall apart, nothing is guaranteed, but I satisfied my caution/no regrets requirement.  I hope we can keep aligning as we go, but que sera sera at this point, and I'm fine with that.

Our standard JP contract wording had "respect and honor" each other.  DH, being the cheerful punk that he is, asked "can I say maybe?" at the ceremony    You can tell he's the bubbly one in the relationship.

[quince]

5 year terms, subject to renewal upon agreement of both parties at the end of the term.    We didn't have any of that richer or poorer nonsense- ours was pretty much, we like each other, our lives are already combined, this is the public declaration of that combining, but changes nothing about our relationship. (And of course, in the background, some upgrades were made to our legal protections and changes to our tax status. And we saved money on car insurance!)

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2014 15:46:18 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Openness and honesty.  Talk to me, and tell me the truth when you do.  Every single time.

I can deal with anything else. 

All I've ever wanted.  But some folks can't give it.  41 years out I guess I've settled for what is.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I don't think it would be worth the trouble - and how could you ensure enforcement of said contract - without being a shrew?

Unexpected circumstances arise that can change the whole dynamic of a marriage (and even your life) in one way or the other. I think that expecting a marriage "contract" will ensure an ideal partnership is completely unrealistic.

Just ONE unforeseen thing or event happening, can forever alter or impact the whole dynamic of your marriage - a death, a sudden illness, any catastrophe ... or even a windfall.

None of us can see the future - and I'd probably find the idea of a Contract such as you describe, completely insulting - The Marriage itself is a Contract or Partnership Agreement that you enter into.

[truthbound]

Jul 13, 2014 10:58:01 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

Do you think there should be staandard mrriage contracts to outline expectations, or a way to honestly identify differences? What would you put in a marriage contract?

I would want it to focus on expectations for success as well as provisions for a split up. I see it as different than a pre-nup because it would be an agreement of behavior during marriage.  

What would you want in your marriage contract now that you know what you know and are all wise and stuff?

You leave with whatever you came with.

[Opti]

Jul 13, 2014 10:58:01 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

Do you think there should be standard marriage contracts to outline expectations, or a way to honestly identify differences? What would you put in a marriage contract?

I would want it to focus on expectations for success as well as provisions for a split up. I see it as different than a pre-nup because it would be an agreement of behavior during marriage.  

What would you want in your marriage contract now that you know what you know and are all wise and stuff?

As you define a marriage contract, no.

If its behavior that can lead to divorce or success that can be quantified it belongs in a pre-nup IMO.

No need to create yet another legal document that enforcement will generally depend on state laws.

As it is, if you break conditions in a prenup, one has to actually file for divorce and get it granted for

any of the dissolution provisions generally to take effect.

Do we really want a relationship agreement like Sheldon's room-mate agreement in Big Bang Theory

or a Mission Statement and Core Values like a business? In the end, there is basically one final remedy - divorce.

Plus, would you really want to specify how many counseling sessions had to happen in the case of

infidelity or unagreed spending?

[Opti]

Jul 13, 2014 18:36:30 GMT -5 @donethat said:

Jul 13, 2014 15:46:18 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Openness and honesty.  Talk to me, and tell me the truth when you do.  Every single time.

I can deal with anything else. 

All I've ever wanted.  But some folks can't give it.  41 years out I guess I've settled for what is.

And therein lies part of the problem with something one feels is as simple as what TG states.

How do you enforce it? Divorce will always be the ultimate remedy, and people who say they

just want honesty and truth are going to you if that honesty and truth is something they

don't like.

That's why that should never be part of a contract. Some people like white lies like you look great.

Some don't. But really, are you going to divorce over that? And, do you really believe you can

write a contract on truth and lies with remedies or divorce that covers all possibilities in any relationship,

let alone a marriage?

[Opti]

Jul 13, 2014 14:31:01 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

Jul 13, 2014 14:27:31 GMT -5 oped said:

I don't think you can really plan most of the stuff you listed, unfortunately.

Why not? Wouldn't it help outline the premise under which you agree to marry? If the spouse's definition of marriage did not include being monogamous, wouldn't you want to know that?

Yes, but hopefully you've spent enough time with the person you don't need a marriage contract to spell it out.

There are so many negotiations in any relationship and much like dating asking for too much and talking

about things too soon can kill it. It would be interesting to see if having a pre-nup was a sign of a marriage

being less likely to lead to a divorce than one without or more likely.

[skubikky]

Jul 13, 2014 15:09:14 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

Jul 13, 2014 15:01:19 GMT -5 Blonde Granny said:

My goodness, if that's what is required why on earth would anyone bother to get married?  Things do change, they happen, either be willing to deal with those changes or stay single.

If that was the case then there would be no divorce. 

You would stay married if your husband beat you? You would say 'just another one of those changes I have to deal with'? I don't think so. 

What is the purpose of a contract?  A requirements doc?   What happens if the requirements are not met?
If you're attempting to use a contract to provide a guarantee of human behavior....well of course that won't work.
Even if you're attempting to capture expectations.

Contracts are only as worthwhile as those that sign them.
How do you uphold the contract?

[shanendoah]

We wrote our own vows, with the help of our officiant, who is a lawyer and a good friend. We promised to always be friends first.

I am amused by this thread because C never wanted to get married. Marriage laws are just outdated property laws, per him. He wanted to form an LLC. I reminded him that an LLC would have his mom making any life and death medical decisions for him, and did he really want that?

But, I do keep thinking that for one of these anniversaries, I will have articles of incorporation drawn up as his gift.

[Plain Old Petunia]

Jul 13, 2014 14:02:14 GMT -5 sesfw said:

The marriage contract says all it needs to right now.

I don't think people really listen to what they are promising.

'For better, for worse ..... for richer, for poorer ......... in sickness and health ....... till death do us part'.

In other words ..... take care of each other.

I don't agree that it already does.  How about putting your spouse/marriage/new family unit first in your life?  How about I will strive for the "better", not just expect you to put up with the "worse"?

[DVM gone riding]

I actually think people SHOULD sign a one to 3 page document of what they are agreeing too!! I agree some people wouldn't get married if they REALLY knew what the marriage contract--aka common law was really entailing. And of course the contract would have to be per your state. and they should have some forced section of what THEY see the marriage entailing---if you don't care if your spouse just sleeps with you fine you can have that but if you do care (I think the majority do) then it should say that too just a quick example

[DVM gone riding]

Jul 14, 2014 6:30:56 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jul 13, 2014 10:58:01 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

Do you think there should be standard marriage contracts to outline expectations, or a way to honestly identify differences? What would you put in a marriage contract?

I would want it to focus on expectations for success as well as provisions for a split up. I see it as different than a pre-nup because it would be an agreement of behavior during marriage.  

What would you want in your marriage contract now that you know what you know and are all wise and stuff?

As you define a marriage contract, no.

If its behavior that can lead to divorce or success that can be quantified it belongs in a pre-nup IMO.

No need to create yet another legal document that enforcement will generally depend on state laws.

As it is, if you break conditions in a prenup, one has to actually file for divorce and get it granted for

any of the dissolution provisions generally to take effect.

Do we really want a relationship agreement like Sheldon's room-mate agreement in Big Bang Theory

or a Mission Statement and Core Values like a business? In the end, there is basically one final remedy - divorce.

Plus, would you really want to specify how many counseling sessions had to happen in the case of

infidelity or unagreed spending?

actually I think it is a great idea I think to many people don't actually talk about these things I think a contract is a great idea of a limited capacity--3 pages not 15!

[Deleted]

Yes a requirements document to make sure all the important topics are discussed. It would represent your commitment and agreements at that time.

Catholics have Pre Cana. What do the rest of us have to push the right discussions to happen? Think about your 20 year old IN LUV self. Did you think it all through, discuss it and have actual agreement?  

[Deleted]

How can your 20 year old IN LUV selfs know what they will do in all the circumstances life can throw at you? 

I think it would just lead to disappointment when the ideal doesn't work out quite the way you planned. 

[thyme4change]

I actually think you should have to write and sign a contract to give all the rights that are automatic when you marry.  I think if some people really understood what legal rights are automatically vested upon signing the marriage license - they might think twice.

 - Shared money and assets
 - Shared debts
 - Power of attorney
 - Rights to make all medical decisions if there is loss of capacity
 - Implied heir - unless other arrangements are made
 - Heir to the 401k, unless the spouse specifically signs their rights away.
 
It goes on and on.  I'm cool with all of that - so I would sign.  But I didn't know what I was really promising - legally - when I said all that richer / poorer bullshit.

And by the way, I think that whole thing is backwards.  It should be for poorer or richer - given that many people get married when they are young and likely don't have many assets.  Better or worse is in the right order.  But sickness and health is probably wrong in most relationships also.  More likely that you are all young and healthy when getting married and then slowly deteriorate into a corpse.