Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 8, 2014 16:58:07 GMT -5
Perhaps it's a little late, given that the 4th of July has come and gone, but do you consider yourself a patriotic person?
Not to turn this into a political discussion, but some have argued that a strong sense of nationalism is a dangerous thing, the classic example being Nazi Germany. Do you think a strong sense of nationalism is dangerous?
|
|
kittensaver
Junior Associate
We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
Joined: Nov 22, 2011 16:16:36 GMT -5
Posts: 7,983
|
Post by kittensaver on Jul 8, 2014 17:07:39 GMT -5
"I love my country, but I fear my government." ~ Michael Holcombe (this is kinda me - how I feel about "patriotism")
"When government fears people, there is liberty. When people fear government, there is tyranny." ~ Thomas Jefferson
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 8, 2014 17:09:31 GMT -5
I am happy and blessed to be in the Unites States and being born American but I'm not sure what patriotic means today. Since I've not been willing to join any services to fight for our country I'm not sure I can honestly said I'm patriotic but I do believe in our constitution and our freedoms and back our soldiers. I dislike war intensely but understand when it could be necessary. It has not been during most of my adult life, IMO.
I think anything to an extreme, especially against other people/countries/cultures/beliefs, can be dangerous.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 64,529
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jul 8, 2014 17:18:53 GMT -5
If it means supporting or fighting in an unjust war or action I believe is wrong for our country, then no, I am not patriotic.
|
|
❤ mollymouser ❤
Senior Associate
Sarcasm is my Superpower
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
Posts: 12,861
Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
|
Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jul 8, 2014 17:18:55 GMT -5
Perhaps it's a little late, given that the 4th of July has come and gone, but do you consider yourself a patriotic person?
Not to turn this into a political discussion, but some have argued that a strong sense of nationalism is a dangerous thing, the classic example being Nazi Germany. Do you think a strong sense of nationalism is dangerous? Yes, I consider myself patriotic. No, I do not think a strong sense of nationalism is automatically or inherently dangerous. (I now feel obligated to post something patriotic)
|
|
❤ mollymouser ❤
Senior Associate
Sarcasm is my Superpower
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
Posts: 12,861
Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
|
Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jul 8, 2014 17:22:03 GMT -5
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 8, 2014 17:23:19 GMT -5
LMAO, Molly! I love it!
<<considering making that my new avatar>>
|
|
kittensaver
Junior Associate
We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
Joined: Nov 22, 2011 16:16:36 GMT -5
Posts: 7,983
|
Post by kittensaver on Jul 8, 2014 17:30:29 GMT -5
I believe it is VERY patriotic to call out those things we see as citizens that are faults and pitfalls that need correction/fixing. It is patriotic to question when things go wrong in order to come out better as a country on the other side.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 8, 2014 17:32:07 GMT -5
If it means supporting or fighting in an unjust war or action I believe is wrong for our country, then no, I am not patriotic. Patriotism seems to be a pretty loosely defined word, and means different things to different people.
The official definition is "love of one's country."
Some might argue you are patriotic (i.e. loving your country) by speaking out against unjust wars, for example.
I'm inclined to agree that it's patriotic to question and criticize your government. After all, the opposite of love isn't hate, but indifference.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 8, 2014 17:33:18 GMT -5
LOL, Mollymouser, that's awesome.
Seeing George Washington riding a T-Rex and wielding a light saber made my day.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 8, 2014 17:39:56 GMT -5
I would call myself patriotic. I love my country, and certainly can't think of a country I like more. The U.S certainly isn't perfect, but it's still a great place to live and things are pretty good here.
I certainly would never betray the U.S or cause harm in any way.
Anything taken to an extreme can be dangerous, bit no, I don't think patriotism or nationalism is inherently dangerous. I think a certain amount of it is healthy.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 64,529
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jul 8, 2014 17:47:24 GMT -5
If it means supporting or fighting in an unjust war or action I believe is wrong for our country, then no, I am not patriotic. Patriotism seems to be a pretty loosely defined word, and means different things to different people.
The official definition is "love of one's country."
Some might argue you are patriotic (i.e. loving your country) by speaking out against unjust wars, for example.
I'm inclined to agree that it's patriotic to question and criticize your government. After all, the opposite of love isn't hate, but indifference.
But the war hawks would tell me to sit the 'F down and shut up. Which I won't.
|
|
Abby Normal
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 12:31:49 GMT -5
Posts: 3,501
|
Post by Abby Normal on Jul 8, 2014 17:47:29 GMT -5
The U.S certainly isn't perfect, but it's still a great place to live and things are pretty good here.
And if only our citizens realized just how good we have it...
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 64,529
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jul 8, 2014 17:52:35 GMT -5
I will say (and if any of you repeat it and tell others I said it, I will deny it), I always tear up with pride when I see new U.S. citizens reciting the Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America. I am so glad they are here.
|
|
kittensaver
Junior Associate
We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
Joined: Nov 22, 2011 16:16:36 GMT -5
Posts: 7,983
|
Post by kittensaver on Jul 8, 2014 17:57:47 GMT -5
I will say (and if any of you repeat it and tell others I said it, I will deny it), I always tear up with pride when I see new U.S. citizens reciting the Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America. I am so glad they are here.
AMEN. Immigrant bashers REALLY forget that we are a nation of immigrants; unless you have a significant amount of Native American blood in you, guess what? You are from somewhere else. We are almost an entire nation of people with roots in other soils.
And also never forget that this country was built on the backs of immigrant labor.
I'm glad they are here too. My grandparent were "them."
|
|
Abby Normal
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 12:31:49 GMT -5
Posts: 3,501
|
Post by Abby Normal on Jul 8, 2014 18:15:58 GMT -5
I have never had an issue with those who come legally and embrace what America is all about. I was watching a show on tv the other night. There was an immigrant from the Ukraine who was talking about arriving with $50 in his pocket and how much he's accomplished since he had been in country and how proud he was when he got his citizenship. Those are the stories that make me proud to be an American.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 8, 2014 18:21:40 GMT -5
I will say (and if any of you repeat it and tell others I said it, I will deny it), I always tear up with pride when I see new U.S. citizens reciting the Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America. I am so glad they are here.
AMEN. Immigrant bashers REALLY forget that we are a nation of immigrants; unless you have a significant amount of Native American blood in you, guess what? You are from somewhere else. We are almost an entire nation of people with roots in other soils.
And also never forget that this country was built on the backs of immigrant labor.
I'm glad they are here too. My grandparent were "them."
I disagree that "you are really from somewhere else" if you don't have native American blood. Last I checked, I was from Indiana. The blood in your veins doesn't denote where you're "from" or how much of an American you are. Personally, I consider anyone who is born here or legally immigrates here a worthy American. I don't make distinctions about who's really from where or belongs here or there based on race.
I largely agree with the rest of the post.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 8, 2014 18:27:35 GMT -5
I will say (and if any of you repeat it and tell others I said it, I will deny it), I always tear up with pride when I see new U.S. citizens reciting the Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America. I am so glad they are here. From what I understand, it takes a long time, a lot of work, and is quite possibly very expensive to become a naturalized citizen. I can see how anyone watching this would swell with pride, and anyone undergoing the process would swell with pride also.
|
|
kittensaver
Junior Associate
We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
Joined: Nov 22, 2011 16:16:36 GMT -5
Posts: 7,983
|
Post by kittensaver on Jul 8, 2014 18:32:03 GMT -5
AMEN. Immigrant bashers REALLY forget that we are a nation of immigrants; unless you have a significant amount of Native American blood in you, guess what? You are from somewhere else. We are almost an entire nation of people with roots in other soils.
And also never forget that this country was built on the backs of immigrant labor.
I'm glad they are here too. My grandparent were "them."
I disagree that "you are really from somewhere else" if you don't have native American blood. Last I checked, I was from Indiana. The blood in your veins doesn't denote where you're "from" or how much of an American you are. Personally, I consider anyone who is born here or legally immigrates here a worthy American. I don't make distinctions about who's really from where or belongs here or there based on race.
I largely agree with the rest of the post.
Yanno - I say that because I get really tired of the folks who ignorantly pontificate (or sometimes just infer) that they are somehow better than everyone else because they are the "original" Americans - after all, didn't you know my ancestors came over on the Mayflower (or some other boat)? The Mayflower came from somewhere else, folks! The inference is that they are the real-deal and somehow everyone is a dirty, unwashed less-than. Hogwash. Last time I checked, I was a born-here citizen from the Left Coast. But my roots are elsewhere. And I will never cease to be grateful that this country gave my family a new start and a wonderful home. I object to the folks who come here, climb the ladder and then slam the door behind them. Unless you are Native American, guess what? You are somewhere on that ladder. Or maybe we just need to agree to disagree . . .
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 8, 2014 18:42:14 GMT -5
I disagree that "you are really from somewhere else" if you don't have native American blood. Last I checked, I was from Indiana. The blood in your veins doesn't denote where you're "from" or how much of an American you are. Personally, I consider anyone who is born here or legally immigrates here a worthy American. I don't make distinctions about who's really from where or belongs here or there based on race.
I largely agree with the rest of the post.
Yanno - I say that because I get really tired of the folks who ignorantly pontificate (or sometimes just infer) that they are somehow better than everyone else because they are the "original" Americans - after all, didn't you know my ancestors came over on the Mayflower (or some other boat)? The Mayflower came from somewhere else, folks! The inference is that they are the real-deal and somehow everyone is a dirty, unwashed less-than. Hogwash. Last time I checked, I was a born-here citizen from the Left Coast. But my roots are elsewhere. And I will never cease to be grateful that this country gave my family a new start and a wonderful home. I object to the folks who come here, climb the ladder and then slam the door behind them. Unless you are Native American, guess what? You are somewhere on that ladder. Or maybe we just need to agree to disagree . . .
I didn't climb any ladder...I was born in this country and I am a proud American. I have no issue with people who come to my country legally and obey our laws. I have major issues with those who enter my country illegally.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 8, 2014 18:45:40 GMT -5
I am very greatful to have been born in the US. While I certainly am saddended by where our country is headed, I am so greatful to not have been born in a third world hell hole.
While I have never had it in me to fight for our great nation, I fully support hose that have. I have been known to break into tears listening to patriotic music . I personally want to bitch slap any American that burns or disrespects our flag, yet I am happy to live in a country where such disrespect won't get someone shot (but part of me believes if you hate my country you should get the f out).
|
|
msventoux
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 12, 2011 22:32:37 GMT -5
Posts: 3,037
|
Post by msventoux on Jul 8, 2014 19:12:05 GMT -5
No. I'm grateful that I live here. I'm supportive of our military and their willingness to take on often thankless and dangerous tasks, but I don't think they're selfless saints who are answering a higher calling; they're doing a job they chose to do and went into knowing the risks. They're not risks I was willing to take as I've never served in the military. I don't particularly like or agree with our government most times, but I'm not interested in seeing it overthrown or the nation damaged. I don't get the whole flag-waving, us against them mentality. I have an issue with illegal immigrants, but have no problem with those who come here by legal means and live by our laws. I have a problem with militant anti-immigrant individuals who claim their ancestors came over on the Mayflower and believe that taking the land by force was somehow holier than illegals coming into our country now. Maybe I'm patriotic in a way. I love the country, it's potential, and the opportunities it allows for everyone regardless of their past, but can't stand a great portion of the citizens.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 10, 2024 0:21:01 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 19:21:25 GMT -5
Did you know that being patriotic was an insult at one time? You were supposed to be loyal to the king, not your country.
|
|
Blonde Granny
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 15, 2013 8:27:13 GMT -5
Posts: 6,919
Today's Mood: Alone in the world
Location: Wandering Aimlessly
Mini-Profile Name Color: 28e619
Mini-Profile Text Color: 3a9900
|
Post by Blonde Granny on Jul 8, 2014 19:38:53 GMT -5
I am a flag flying, rhinestone pin wearing, damn proud to be an American and the wife of a disabled Viet Nam vet. I cry at the National Anthem and the song by Lee Greenwod. I love Toby Keith and his Angry American and believe the way to achieve peace is by putting a boot in their ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone want to make something of this? haha, I didn't think so.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 8, 2014 19:43:38 GMT -5
I am a flag flying, rhinestone pin wearing, damn proud to be an American and the wife of a disabled Viet Nam vet. I cry at the National Anthem and the song by Lee Greenwod. I love Toby Keith and his Angry American and believe the way to achieve peace is by putting a boot in their ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone want to make something of this? haha, I didn't think so. I love Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue...I tear up everytime I hear it..
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,489
|
Post by Tiny on Jul 8, 2014 20:01:22 GMT -5
I'm not sure how patriotic I am... I think the whole Pledge of Allegiance to a FLAG is pretty darn silly... It's a symbol - I'd rather pledge allegiance to some ideals or a person or a movement - but a symbol? Why not just cut to the chase and skip the symbol? I often get worried when politicians or the people with power start talking 'patriotism' because I get the feeling they are using it like a bludgeon to get people to say/think/do certain things that maybe they don't want to.
|
|
Cookies Galore
Senior Associate
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 18:08:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,892
|
Post by Cookies Galore on Jul 8, 2014 20:04:15 GMT -5
LOL, Mollymouser, that's awesome.
Seeing George Washington riding a T-Rex and wielding a light saber made my day. Pretty sure it made everyone's day!
|
|
Baby Fawkes
Familiar Member
Joined: Mar 6, 2011 15:39:53 GMT -5
Posts: 812
|
Post by Baby Fawkes on Jul 8, 2014 20:06:25 GMT -5
From what I understand, it takes a long time, a lot of work, and is quite possibly very expensive to become a naturalized citizen. I can't say enough. The amount of money, work and time involved is the reason why I have a tiny bit of sympathy for some illegal immigrants. I definitely do not support illegal immigration, but I do support reforming the system to make it more attainable for people to apply legally and go about it the right way.
|
|
Cookies Galore
Senior Associate
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 18:08:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,892
|
Post by Cookies Galore on Jul 8, 2014 20:08:44 GMT -5
I am very greatful to have been born in the US. While I certainly am saddended by where our country is headed, I am so greatful to not have been born in a third world hell hole. While I have never had it in me to fight for our great nation, I fully support hose that have. I have been known to break into tears listening to patriotic music . I personally want to bitch slap any American that burns or disrespects our flag, yet I am happy to live in a country where such disrespect won't get someone shot (but part of me believes if you hate my country you should get the f out). Like flag bikinis? HATE THEM!!!!! The height of tacky. I'm more offended by those than flag burning.
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 8, 2014 20:09:02 GMT -5
I kinda feel like I have to be, considering what my parents have gone through to get me here.
I probably would have been more so if it didn't start reminding me of some things that escaped from.
|
|