tractor
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Post by tractor on Jul 7, 2014 18:28:01 GMT -5
I know there are exceptions, and I think she works way more than others. She cares way too much about her kids and doing a good job, she works in a very difficult field and doesn't do anything half-assed.
I know other teachers who spend their summers taking classes as required to maintain their certification.
I suppose there are slackers and hard workers in any field, teachers just make easy targets.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 18:30:29 GMT -5
I wasn't going to comment but will.
Thank you for that comment, Phoenix. Because the subtext of Bluester's post was, "OMG! Do you know how few hours teachers work? And they get summers off as well!"
I am indeed a professional. By the way, summer is two months off in my district. So it isn't quite summers off these days. It is hard to cram all the instructional days and professional development days into 9 months.
If you have the time, feel sorry for a new teacher. I start July 31. They start three days earlier. Their first paycheck will be Sept. 30. Sure, they will get paid for 3 months after they leave the profession, but those are a tough first two months. Many acquire credit card debt while they try to make it to their first paycheck.
It was only six weeks when I started 40 years ago. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
I would take two months off a year...that isn't a knock towards teachers but honest. I work a minimum of 50 hour weeks and usually a lot more. I get 3 weeks vacation (though I have been so busy some years that I haven't been able to take them) and I think 7 or 8 holidays (this place is more generous as I get Christmas Eve and the day after thanksgiving off). I don't get spring break, Christmas break, etx. I would respect teachers if they just owned how much time they actually get off compared to most professionals. I appreciate my real life friends who admit they spend their summers at the pool and don't feel guilt about it. But those that claim that they work more than me (mainly only on here) make me shake my head because I just don't believe it. Unless the teachers on my Facebook are the only ones who don't work 12 hour days and all summer long.
I never said teachers don't work hard. But own the awesome time off you all get instead of complaining about grading papers, making calls etc. I get stuck traveling internationally and blow entire weekends traveling...I'm salaried so I don't get paid extra. It is part of being a professionalThat's exactly my point. Ninety-nine percent of the teachers do not work 12 hours a day 52 weeks a year. One I know said she is a pillar in the community. To me she is no more special than any other career person. She chose to be a teacher. (And an English teach at that!!) Everyone's job has some importance. And - I know this subject gets people fired up. Ha Ha Ha Ha . . . . . . I'm loving it!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 18:31:03 GMT -5
I agree tractors wife is exceptional!
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 7, 2014 18:31:34 GMT -5
If you are not a teacher, or married to a teacher, you have no idea. It's 7:00 pm here, my wife arrived at work at 7:30 am and is still not home. When she does get home, she will be grading papers and working on IEPs until 1-2am. She does this every day. Her official hours are 8-3:30pm. If you think they only work those hours, you live in a fantasy world. Not being snarky but what is your wife doing while at work at 7:00pm? The kids were gone atleast 3 hours ago... Is she doing something 'extracurricular' that's paid? Or is she prepping for the next days classes? I understand that grading papers and preparing class/course work (IEP??) is something that happens outside 'class time' and takes up time. But really needing 7 or 8 hours on top of "in class time" per day starts to sound like a 'time management' issue or 'perfectionist' issue. FWIW: there are people in the business world who spend 12 and 13 hours a day doing "8 hours worth of work" because of time management/perfectionist issues. again not being snarky... just curious.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 18:34:09 GMT -5
I don't know teachers who suggest they work 12 hours a day 52 weeks a year ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif) ... I also don't know any who teach 15 kid classes from 7:30-3:30 with a guaranteed free period a day for 9 months and astronomical compensation...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 18:39:06 GMT -5
Tiny special Ed has very few breaks during the day. Lots of time you aren't prepping 'classes', you are prepping individual lessons, assessments, modifying regular Ed assignments/tests, designing accommodations... In addition to multidisciplinary teams and annual Individualized Education Plans ( not to mention transition, etc) at most of the schools I worked I had to hand out twice the number of evaluations as reg Ed.
It's a lot of paperwork and prep. It's also a lot of advocacy.
That said, I didn't put in as much time as tractors wife. But once I had kids, it was really difficult for me.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jul 7, 2014 19:12:08 GMT -5
My wife is a public school teacher in a residential, court appointed program. Her kids come and go every week to six weeks maximum. They are in a locked down facility, no open windows or fresh air allowed ( they never go outside). She teaches kids that the rest of the world threw away, many are abuse victims, some are criminals, all have very little family and/or social system in place. They mess up there, they go straight to jail.
The problem is she has to treat each student like they are there full time, and unlike most teachers she has to do a full IEP for every student in her class, with the students coming and going at various intervals throughout the year it amounts to 100+ IEPs a year. If you could figure out a way to make her more efficient, please do. In the 20 years we have been married, no one else has been able to. I am a pretty tough guy, I couldn't last one day in her classroom. I challenge anyone to go spend eight hours locked in a room with aggressive teenagers who don't care to be alive and see how you make out. Again, she's not typical, but she's all I know.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 7, 2014 19:13:49 GMT -5
I would take to months off a year...that isn't a knock towards teachers but honest. I work a minimum of 50 hour weeks and usually a lot more. I get 3 weeks vacation (though I have been so busy some years that I haven't been able to take them) and I think 7 or 8 holidays (this place is more generous as I get Christmas Eve and the day after thanksgiving off). I don't get spring break, Christmas break, etx. I would respect teachers if they just owned how much time they actually get off compared to most professionals. I appreciate my real life friends who admit they spend their summers at the pool and don't feel guilt about it. But those that claim that they work more than me (mainly only on here) make me shake my head because I just don't believe it. Unless the teachers on my Facebook are the only ones who don't work 12 hour days and all summer long.
I never said teachers don't work hard. But own the awesome time off you all get instead of complaining about grading papers, making calls etc. I get stuck traveling internationally and blow entire weekends traveling...I'm salaried so I don't get paid extra. It is part of being a professionalThat's exactly my point. Ninety-nine percent of the teachers do not work 12 hours a day 52 weeks a year. One I know said she is a pillar in the community. To me she is no more special than any other career person. She chose to be a teacher. (And an English teach at that!!) Everyone's job has some importance. And - I know this subject gets people fired up.
Ha Ha Ha Ha . . . . . . I'm loving it!!So are you trolling by stirring up posters with inflamatory statements? That ìs the definition of an Internet troll. Troll (Internet)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 19:21:18 GMT -5
Let's start a thread on banker's hours or how someone can clean your house in 2 hours and get that much money or how tax accountants usually get the week off after April 15 . . . or any other quirk of a profession.
I may not be at school physically, but that doesn't mean I am not working. I like grading papers in my sunroom. The light is better. On weekends, the papers seem to get better after a beer or two. Or I seem to get less "mean," as my students would say.
What do you do for a living, Bluester? Don't be a coward. Let me be an equal opportunity troll. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 7, 2014 20:15:51 GMT -5
Tractor, give your wife a hug from me.
One of my friends is a special ed teacher (emotionally disturbed 6th-8th graders)... she regularly comes out with bruises on her arms and legs from being hit by her kids. She just got married and really wants a baby but is trying to be transferred to another classroom before TTC because she's worried about what might happen if she were pregnant.
Again - not a job I could ever do. And I have had lots of hard jobs.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 7, 2014 20:23:35 GMT -5
My wife is a public school teacher in a residential, court appointed program. Her kids come and go every week to six weeks maximum. They are in a locked down facility, no open windows or fresh air allowed ( they never go outside). She teaches kids that the rest of the world threw away, many are abuse victims, some are criminals, all have very little family and/or social system in place. They mess up there, they go straight to jail. The problem is she has to treat each student like they are there full time, and unlike most teachers she has to do a full IEP for every student in her class, with the students coming and going at various intervals throughout the year it amounts to 100+ IEPs a year. If you could figure out a way to make her more efficient, please do. In the 20 years we have been married, no one else has been able to. I am a pretty tough guy, I couldn't last one day in her classroom. I challenge anyone to go spend eight hours locked in a room with aggressive teenagers who don't care to be alive and see how you make out. Again, she's not typical, but she's all I know. Thanks for answering. I didn't mean any disrespect nor was I poking... I'm not always good at tactfully asking questions.
IDK, the teaching your wife is doing deserves more than just the title 'teacher'. The work she's doing is definitely not typical for the bunch of teachers I'm familiar with (suburban, 25 kids or less per class 50 or so kids per grade level (that may intermix during the day between 2 teachers (and 2 aides) with a few dropping/few joining, lower income - but all the kids speak English - even if their parents don't). Also these teachers generally teach the same grade level each year - often with the same materials/curriculum.
Your wife is exceptional in a good way!
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jul 7, 2014 20:36:14 GMT -5
Much of a teachers work load depends on what their specialization is, and how well funded the district is. Tiny points out one of the other problems my wife has, she used to have a paraprofessional in the class room to help with grading papers and discipline issues. Guess what was the first position cut when funding got tight. The way districts work, if they can get by without a paraprofessional in the first grade classroom, I guess they don't need one in the special ed classroom either. When she lost her paraprofessional it was really hard for her to take, her workload almost doubled, and it was an emotional drain.
The high paid, well funded classroom jobs are hard to come by, everybody wants to work those. No one wants to do special ed/high risk stuff for the same money, which is why we often hear of teacher shortages. Everyone wants the easy route. I think the same can be said for any profession.
FWIW, I don't take anything personally, I just want to remind everyone that there are two sides to the teaching coin.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 7, 2014 20:42:08 GMT -5
Let's start a thread on banker's hours or how someone can clean your house in 2 hours and get that much money or how tax accountants usually get the week off after April 15 . . . or any other quirk of a profession.
I may not be at school physically, but that doesn't mean I am not working. I like grading papers in my sunroom. The light is better. On weekends, the papers seem to get better after a beer or two. Or I seem to get less "mean," as my students would say.
What do you do for a living, Bluester? Don't be a coward. Let me be an equal opportunity troll. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) I totally bust about bankers hours...but I don't see thread after thread of bankers claiming to work a shit ton of hours, either I worked for a large, mid Atlantic CPA firm. Sure I could take the week after April 15th off...but If I did I was using PTO to do it.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 7, 2014 20:43:42 GMT -5
Much of a teachers work load depends on what their specialization is, and how well funded the district is. Tiny points out one of the other problems my wife has, she used to have a paraprofessional in the class room to help with grading papers and discipline issues. Guess what was the first position cut when funding got tight. The way districts work, if they can get by without a paraprofessional in the first grade classroom, I guess they don't need one in the special ed classroom either. When she lost her paraprofessional it was really hard for her to take, her workload almost doubled, and it was an emotional drain. The high paid, well funded classroom jobs are hard to come by, everybody wants to work those. No one wants to do special ed/high risk stuff for the same money, which is why we often hear of teacher shortages. Everyone wants the easy route. I think the same can be said for any profession. FWIW, I don't take anything personally, I just want to remind everyone that there are two sides to the teaching coin. I've honestly never heard of a teaching job like your wife's. She is definitely the exception...and her job I wouldn't do for the summers off!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 20:46:50 GMT -5
I don't know teachers who suggest they work 12 hours a day 52 weeks a year ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif) ... I also don't know any who teach 15 kid classes from 7:30-3:30 with a guaranteed free period a day for 9 months and astronomical compensation... Yes I'm quoting myself... The problem as I see it is that if a teacher suggests the second description above is not accurate... People seem to think she's claiming the first...
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Jul 7, 2014 20:52:20 GMT -5
I have a teacher friend who posted the link to the 10 common myths about teaching on his facebook. Number 2 was teachers have the summers off. His comment was "false, I'll be at the pool all day and the pub all evening." He's been teaching 10 years and also coaches. I could see the first few years being rough, but you get in a pattern and should be able to manage. I also find it refreshing when a teacher admits they have it pretty good.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 20:56:56 GMT -5
If a teacher is doing the same thing day in and out for ten years they might have it good, but probably aren't doing it very well...
There are pros and cons to every profession.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 7, 2014 20:58:24 GMT -5
I worked for a large, mid Atlantic CPA firm. Sure I could take the week after April 15th off...but If I did I was using PTO to do it. LOL! When I do take a week off - I come back to the office and have to do the work that didn't get done the week I was gone PLUS the new weeks work. Taking time off of work is stressful for me (and I suspect others in the business world) cause it's not like the work 'stops' while I'm gone (it often follows me onto my time off via phone calls/emails.). Even on National Holidays - the international offices tend to be open and 'work' is still occurring... It's not like coming back to the office after being out for a period of time is carefree or easy.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 7, 2014 21:15:30 GMT -5
I worked for a large, mid Atlantic CPA firm. Sure I could take the week after April 15th off...but If I did I was using PTO to do it. LOL! When I do take a week off - I come back to the office and have to do the work that didn't get done the week I was gone PLUS the new weeks work. Taking time off of work is stressful for me (and I suspect others in the business world) cause it's not like the work 'stops' while I'm gone (it often follows me onto my time off via phone calls/emails.). Even on National Holidays - the international offices tend to be open and 'work' is still occurring... It's not like coming back to the office after being out for a period of time is carefree or easy.
Exactly! I always say that I almost hate taking time off (almost!) because the week leading up to it and the week after getting back are absolutely horrendous...I don't have a job where a co-worker is going to do my work when I'm gone. And now that we all have iPhones, truly disconnecting from the office gets harder and harder
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Jul 7, 2014 21:16:33 GMT -5
If a teacher is doing the same thing day in and out for ten years they might have it good, but probably aren't doing it very well... There are pros and cons to every profession. I doubt that he's been doing the same thing day in and day out for 10 years. I've been fine-tuning my own profession for 10 years and am 1000 times better at it than I was when I started. I used to work 60-90 hours/week. Now I work 40. Years of experience have made me more efficient and better.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 7, 2014 21:55:08 GMT -5
Reading this thread, I'm think I'm finally understand why AZ has such a poorly ranked educational system. My kid's school hours were 7:45 - 2:30, and they had a teacher planning day every week where school hours were 7:45 - 1, unless there were half days or a holiday. Parent-teacher conferences were set on the schedule and the kids had half days. Most of the teachers would agree to meet at 5 or even 5:30 - but that was 4 days per year.
So, a typical week had 32 hours and 15 minutes of school time, assuming that they get zero-point-zero minutes free of kids during a normal day. I know they have lunch duties, but they do have 45 minutes where the kids are in "specials" (art, music, PE, spanish, etc.) every day - but I will say they use that to eat lunch and go to the bathroom. In my work-week my 40 hours doesn't include my lunch hours. So, they would get 10 more hours-ish to do paperwork, grade papers, talk with parents, etc. before they hit a regular 40 hours per week.
The moral of the story - teach in my school district!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 7, 2014 21:57:28 GMT -5
Oh wait - they each had 60 minutes of pre and post school duties per week, so we are down to 9 hours for paperwork.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 7, 2014 22:14:51 GMT -5
On the other hand, I never understood the martyr attitude some teachers have. Overtime and long hours are common to a lot of professions. I have to work overtime, occasionally lots of it. It just comes with the territory of being a professional, and teachers are professionals. I wasn't going to comment but will.
Thank you for that comment, Phoenix. Because the subtext of Bluester's post was, "OMG! Do you know how few hours teachers work? And they get summers off as well!"
I am indeed a professional. By the way, summer is two months off in my district. So it isn't quite summers off these days. It is hard to cram all the instructional days and professional development days into 9 months.
If you have the time, feel sorry for a new teacher. I start July 31. They start three days earlier. Their first paycheck will be Sept. 30. Sure, they will get paid for 3 months after they leave the profession, but those are a tough first two months. Many acquire credit card debt while they try to make it to their first paycheck.
It was only six weeks when I started 40 years ago. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
Yeah, not getting a paycheck for two months can be pretty rough.
You start July 31? That's pretty early, earlier than I've heard any school start.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 7, 2014 22:20:13 GMT -5
I actually feel really bad for my neighbor who is a teacher. Her school district had nearly a month of snow days to make up (and a day off for a water main break) and their last day was June 6th .... classes start back up on August 14th too.
I don't feel bad when my SIL (a teacher) is complaining about her health insurance going up on facebook and then she starts in on how undervalued teachers are. Sorry sweetie, but EVERYONE's health insurance is going up, most of us it is going up more than our raises too. She also teaches Jr. High band and is (IMO) well compensated for it. Yes, I understand you have a PhD. But you still teach Jr. high band. I don't like hearing the complaints of "I have to do continuing education this summer, so I don't get summer off" from her, when I have to squeeze in my continuing education in as I can fit it in and still get my work done ... which often means I'm working weekends around my conferences to get my work done since the conferences are during the week. That stuff rubs me the wrong way.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jul 7, 2014 23:30:06 GMT -5
My wife is a public school teacher in a residential, court appointed program. Her kids come and go every week to six weeks maximum. They are in a locked down facility, no open windows or fresh air allowed ( they never go outside). She teaches kids that the rest of the world threw away, many are abuse victims, some are criminals, all have very little family and/or social system in place. They mess up there, they go straight to jail. The problem is she has to treat each student like they are there full time, and unlike most teachers she has to do a full IEP for every student in her class, with the students coming and going at various intervals throughout the year it amounts to 100+ IEPs a year. If you could figure out a way to make her more efficient, please do. In the 20 years we have been married, no one else has been able to. I am a pretty tough guy, I couldn't last one day in her classroom. I challenge anyone to go spend eight hours locked in a room with aggressive teenagers who don't care to be alive and see how you make out. Again, she's not typical, but she's all I know. Tractor, your wife's job sounds like a more intense version of my DH's former job. He was not public, but worked for a private agency, had both "day" students and residential, and they were probably one more step away from jail. Otherwise, it sounds very familiar. He enjoyed the challenge of teaching and reaching these kids; the endless paperwork is what he hated. In theory he had an aide, but short staffing meant that his aide often got assigned to cover another classroom, or the quit/moved up when a better position opened up for them, and it would take months to interview, hire and train a new aide. Training involved things like how to properly restrain students when they got out of control. And repeat when the new aide never returns to work with no contact. He rarely took a day off, due to the endless workload, and even snowdays were not days off (some one had to still babysit, er, supervise the residents). When he quit he had over half a year's worth of sick leave accrued.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 0:24:15 GMT -5
Some of it depends on the grade level, I'm sure. Some of it depends on the subject. I imagine doing lesson plans is time consuming, but once they're done they only need be updated. There's also grading, which can be time consuming as well. Many teachers are also coaches, which can add quite a bit of additional time during the seasons they coach. Having to teach a full day of classes and then a couple hours of practice or having to attend a sporting event then going home to do all the paperwork makes for a pretty long day. Also, many teachers host clubs and after school meetings, at least at the junior high/high school level.
On the other hand, I never understood the martyr attitude some teachers have. Overtime and long hours are common to a lot of professions. I have to work overtime, occasionally lots of it. It just comes with the territory of being a professional, and teachers are professionals. Being in a room with 30 kids all day would be like purgatory. In your territory of professional I think you make more than 40K a year to put up with the long hours. I can't get on board with the teacher haters. I don't actually understand why so many people are negative towards teachers.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jul 8, 2014 1:35:58 GMT -5
Some of it depends on the grade level, I'm sure. Some of it depends on the subject. I imagine doing lesson plans is time consuming, but once they're done they only need be updated. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/rofl.gif) Do not speak of what you do not know.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jul 8, 2014 1:44:44 GMT -5
So, could a moderator please explain to me why someone is allowed to start a thread simply to antagonize and encourage others to antagonize a specific group of people?
im not one who complains, so know I'm asking this seriously.
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truthbound
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Post by truthbound on Jul 8, 2014 3:41:21 GMT -5
Today at lunch I talked with an acquaintance of mine that is a teacher. She has the summer off. < GASP > During the school year, her hours are normally 7:30 to 4:00. < GASP > I thought they worked 52 weeks a year and 12 hour days. LOL where have you been living?
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jul 8, 2014 5:46:47 GMT -5
My wife is a public school teacher in a residential, court appointed program. Her kids come and go every week to six weeks maximum. They are in a locked down facility, no open windows or fresh air allowed ( they never go outside). She teaches kids that the rest of the world threw away, many are abuse victims, some are criminals, all have very little family and/or social system in place. They mess up there, they go straight to jail. The problem is she has to treat each student like they are there full time, and unlike most teachers she has to do a full IEP for every student in her class, with the students coming and going at various intervals throughout the year it amounts to 100+ IEPs a year. If you could figure out a way to make her more efficient, please do. In the 20 years we have been married, no one else has been able to. I am a pretty tough guy, I couldn't last one day in her classroom. I challenge anyone to go spend eight hours locked in a room with aggressive teenagers who don't care to be alive and see how you make out. Again, she's not typical, but she's all I know. Tractor, your wife's job sounds like a more intense version of my DH's former job. He was not public, but worked for a private agency, had both "day" students and residential, and they were probably one more step away from jail. Otherwise, it sounds very familiar. He enjoyed the challenge of teaching and reaching these kids; the endless paperwork is what he hated. In theory he had an aide, but short staffing meant that his aide often got assigned to cover another classroom, or the quit/moved up when a better position opened up for them, and it would take months to interview, hire and train a new aide. Training involved things like how to properly restrain students when they got out of control. And repeat when the new aide never returns to work with no contact. He rarely took a day off, due to the endless workload, and even snowdays were not days off (some one had to still babysit, er, supervise the residents). When he quit he had over half a year's worth of sick leave accrued. You're exactly right Teen. Sounds just like my wife, she's got 22 years in so far. I wouldn't last 22 days.
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