Are you responsible for how your kids turn out?

[whoisjohngalt]

Sheila, I am not picking on you, but your post brings up another point of view for me.

I don't WANT to share certain things with my kids (granted, my oldest is not even 6 yet) not bc they are not "full voting members" but bc I still believe in a notion of "worry free childhood".

I wouldn't want them to know about affairs and addictions at 9 yr old.  I wouldn't want them to know that we are loosing the house at 11. 

Those are serious grown up things.  Even some adults have a hard time dealing and understanding such things. 

[sheilaincali]

Jul 1, 2014 8:18:10 GMT -5 oped said:

Yes, the idea of full voting member also doesn't mean, as I've observed in some of the unschooling families I know, that kids vote counts MORE than the parents.

Correct his vote doesn't get weighed more heavily than ours.  Sometimes he'll joke and say that the dog gave him her proxy vote so really he has two votes to our two parent votes.  We do consult him on things and plan to continue to do that. 

DS' braces were partially cosmetic but he also had a cross bite that would have gotten worse if left untreated.  I don't know if he had said 'no thanks' if I would have had to exercise veto power or not.  All I know is that he made an informed decision and it happened to align with mine.  At the end of the day he is of the opinion that the decision to get braces was his. 

[Firebird]

Feel free not to change your kids' diaper bc they don't want you to. Their body, their right.

Where's the dislike button?

Lena, I said more than once that I believe in encouraging bodily autonomy in kids IN AGE APPROPRIATE WAYS.  To equate what I said to this statement is very insulting, especially when I was careful to explain that respecting my toddler's bodily autonomy does NOT mean that I do not care for her or do things to her that she doesn't like at times.

But once more, for the record:  I vaccinate Babybird, I change her diapers, I make her put on clothes.  I give her limited, AGE APPROPRIATE choices when I can, but I do not let her run the show and there are tons of things she doesn't get to decide for herself yet.  She's a year old, for fuck's sake.  Of course she's not going to "decide" to brush her teeth, of course she's going to fight having her diaper changed. 

I'm the parent and she's the kid.  I think you can be a good, authoritative parent and ALSO treat your children as autonomous people who deserve respect, in age appropriate ways.

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

[Firebird]

I don't WANT to share certain things with my kids (granted, my oldest is not even 6 yet) not bc they are not "full voting members" but bc I still believe in a notion of "worry free childhood".

I wouldn't want them to know about affairs and addictions at 9 yr old. I wouldn't want them to know that we are loosing the house at 11.

That's fine for you and your family.  Sheila is explaining how things work in her family.  A lot of families wouldn't be comfortable with that level of openness and honesty with a tween kid.  But it worked for them, that's all.

I feel like a few of you are deliberately reading things into what she's saying.  She's just relating her own experience with her own unique child in their own unique circumstances.  She's not saying the rest of you are doing it wrong.  As she has said more than once, obviously their experience would have been different with different variables.

And if the Boy started coming home drunk, I bet things would change around their house pretty damn quick. 

[sheilaincali]

We told him about the affair because the mistress in question started stalking myself and DS. She started leaving him voicemails on our answering machine, sending him packages to the house, she had stolen his cell number off his dad's phone at some point and started sending him text messages. So yes we felt we had to tell him why this crazy person was sending him these messages. We eventually had to go to court to get a restraining order against her (it was granted).

DH is bipolar there is no getting around that.  Bipolar (and other mental disorder symptoms) can start to manifest in the pre-teen to early teenage years in boys.  We wanted DS to be aware of his medical history and the potential risks of his having bipolar as well.  We wanted him to be aware of his mood swings so he could speak up if he started experiencing any symptoms.  We were told by DH's psychiatrist to share this info with DS and give DS the opportunity to talk to him if he had any concerns.  DS is also aware of his dad's addictive personality and that his paternal grandma, great aunt and great grandma all had issues with drug and alcohol addictions.  He needs to be aware of these things so again he can monitor himself and speak up if he starts having problems. 

FWIW- he also knows that his maternal grandma had breast cancer, both great grandpas died of cancer and his great grandma has diabetes and dementia.   

We told him about the house because we were going to have to more regardless and it would result in a lifestyle change. For a few years there we went from making a combine $140,000 a year to both of us only getting unemployment. It made an impact on DS' life as well. I wasn't going to come into his room one day and start boxing his shit up and tell him the moving van would be here the next day and that we were moving for vague, unexplained reasons. 

I try to give him the information he needs to process things so that he isn't left with a ton of unanswered questions and resentment towards us.

[whoisjohngalt]

Jul 1, 2014 8:35:45 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Feel free not to change your kids' diaper bc they don't want you to. Their body, their right.

Where's the dislike button?

Lena, I said more than once that I believe in encouraging bodily autonomy in kids IN AGE APPROPRIATE WAYS.  To equate what I said to this statement is very insulting, especially when I was careful to explain that respecting my toddler's bodily autonomy does NOT mean that I do not care for her or do things to her that she doesn't like at times.

But once more, for the record:  I vaccinate Babybird, I change her diapers, I make her put on clothes.  I give her limited, AGE APPROPRIATE choices when I can, but I do not let her run the show and there are tons of things she doesn't get to decide for herself yet.  She's a year old, for fuck's sake.  Of course she's not going to "decide" to brush her teeth, of course she's going to fight having her diaper changed. 

I'm the parent and she's the kid.  I think you can be a good, authoritative parent and ALSO treat your children as autonomous people who deserve respect, in age appropriate ways.

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

"Age-appropriate" in this instance is a very subjective statement so I can't take that seriously.

[yogiii]

Jun 30, 2014 19:26:17 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I'll probably get no end of shit for saying this, especially since you all know my hangup about only child stuff- but IN MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, the kind of dynamic Sheila describes is very common in only-child households. With only one kid, there's less division between "the parents" and "the kids."

The only child tends to be treated like a little adult from a very young age and as s/he gets older, that can translate into what kind of looks like a relationship between three equals. Obviously that doesn't mean the kid runs the whole show. It just means they're treated more like an adult than the average kid is by their parents.

For example, at age nine I didn't get a vote when my family moved states (as it should be in my opinion) but I got a lot of say in decisions around the move, like the timing of it and the furniture we bought and so forth. My parents consulted me on that stuff. They used to tell me "you don't always get a vote, but you get a voice."

So I don't think Sheila is saying her kid gets total control or anything. It sounds like they just have more equality in their relationship with their teenage son than a lot of parents have with their kids. In MY experience, that is super common with only children and their parents.

I'm an only child and I do not agree.  I do think my parents treated me more like an adult from a young age but I think that was due mostly to my personality.  I was one of those kids that could babysit at 11.  I was very mature, didn't get into trouble, didn't seek out trouble or thrills, my parents never had to get on my case about homework, etc.  I did go thru the regular teenage drama of back talking to my parents but that was the extent of their "difficult" time as parents.  My parents had rules that I challenged and lost on.  I remember in middle school I wanted a TV in my room.  They said no, that was the end of the story.  Same thing with getting a phone in my room.  They consulted me on things like what I wanted for dinner, etc but I do the same with my 4 y/o on occasion.

[whoisjohngalt]

Jul 1, 2014 8:41:04 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I don't WANT to share certain things with my kids (granted, my oldest is not even 6 yet) not bc they are not "full voting members" but bc I still believe in a notion of "worry free childhood".

I wouldn't want them to know about affairs and addictions at 9 yr old. I wouldn't want them to know that we are loosing the house at 11.

That's fine for you and your family.  Sheila is explaining how things work in her family.  A lot of families wouldn't be comfortable with that level of openness and honesty with a tween kid.  But it worked for them, that's all.

I feel like a few of you are deliberately reading things into what she's saying.  She's just relating her own experience with her own unique child in their own unique circumstances.  She's not saying the rest of you are doing it wrong.  As she has said more than once, obviously their experience would have been different with different variables.

And if the Boy started coming home drunk, I bet things would change around their house pretty damn quick. 

You must have missed all those *I* in my post as I was referring to MYSELF!!!!!!

Just as you must have missed where I said MY POINT OF VIEW.

[Firebird]

"Age-appropriate" in this instance is a very subjective statement so I can't take that seriously.

Except I've given specific examples of what I mean by that and you've ignored them all.  I specifically said that I do not consider diaper changing to be optional, and then you implied that I don't change my kid's diapers.

I don't mind if you disagree with me (I like our conversations) but I get annoyed when people selectively read my posts and then just post something ridiculous that I specifically said I didn't agree with, implying that I do. 

[happyhoix]

Those are serious grown up things. Even some adults have a hard time dealing and understanding such things.

I agree with this, and I also think it depends on the kid.

My son was a very quiet, thoughtful, introverted little boy who could become fearful. I think at nine, trying to explain to him that his father had a mental health issue and needed therapy would have terrified him. I think he would have imaged his father would end up in a hospital or prison. I wouldn't have shared that information with him when he was 9.

 

[sheilaincali]

Jul 1, 2014 8:41:04 GMT -5 Firebird said:

That's fine for you and your family.  Sheila is explaining how things work in her family.  A lot of families wouldn't be comfortable with that level of openness and honesty with a tween kid.  But it worked for them, that's all.

I feel like a few of you are deliberately reading things into what she's saying.  She's just relating her own experience with her own unique child in their own unique circumstances.  As she has said more than once, obviously their experience would have been different with different variables.

And if the Boy started coming home drunk, I bet things would change around their house pretty damn quick. 

EXACTLY.  My parenting choices are mine and seem to be working out just fine for MY family.  No my style will not work for everyone or every family.  I don't know why it works it just does.

I'll say it again- we have exactly as many rules as he needs at this time.  If he starts demonstrating that he needs more rules he will have more rules. 

He could come home drunk- things like that are a possibility no matter what parenting style/philosophy you have.  We have spent hours talking to him about drugs and alcohol.  Dumb things we did as teenagers when we were drunk, accidents that were narrowly avoided, driving that should NOT have happened, etc.  We have repeatedly stressed to him the importance of calling us if he finds himself in a situation like that. 

He knows about his dad tripping on acid and nearly killing himself because he wanted to run in traffic on the highway.  He knows about me driving drunk in high school.  He knows about DH skipping school to smoke pot.  He also knows that we very rarely drink now.  He knows that when our friends come over for a party at our house that one part of each couple stays sober or they carpool to their respective homes.  He knows that I stay sober because his friends are there too and I feel they should have a sober adult there when his friends are over.  He is comfortable enough that at Easter when we were leaving my folks house after his dad had had one beer (two hours earlier with dinner) to ask his dad to please give me the keys to be on the safe side.  DH was in no way drunk and DS knew this but as he told his dad "it's really not worth the risk and since mom didn't drink at all it makes more sense for her to drive". 

[Firebird]

I think at nine, trying to explain to him that his father had a mental health issue and needed therapy would have terrified him. I think he would have imaged his father would end up in a hospital or prison. I wouldn't have shared that information with him when he was 9.

I think that my PREFERENCE would be to work out something like an affair with DH only.  My preference would be to not involve my daughter in an issue like that.  But Sheila explained the circumstances of telling the Boy what was going on, and I'm very curious - exactly how would you guys (who are saying you wouldn't have wanted your kid to know) have dealt with a situation like that?

The woman was harassing her son.  It wasn't just about the three adults anymore.  She was going after the kid.  As his parent, how do you suppose you would have helped your young son deal with that without answering any of his totally reasonable questions about who the hell this woman is and why she's messing with him?

[whoisjohngalt]

Jul 1, 2014 8:45:10 GMT -5 Firebird said:

"Age-appropriate" in this instance is a very subjective statement so I can't take that seriously.

Except I've given specific examples of what I mean by that and you've ignored them all.  I specifically said that I do not consider diaper changing to be optional, and then you implied that I don't change my kid's diapers.

I don't mind if you disagree with me (I like our conversations) but I get annoyed when people selectively read my posts and then just post something ridiculous that I specifically said I didn't agree with, implying that I do. 

Fine, let's go through your examples and even a few more, since I think you like specific examples.

Diaper changes are not optional.  Only for a 1yr old or in general?  Will you force her on the floor at 3 to change a diaper or will you stop at...hmm....2.5 and let her decide after that?
Teeth brushing is not optional.  Only at 1 or in general?
Washing hair.  Same thing
Haircuts.  Same thing
Nail trimming.  Same thing
Hugs and kisses.

I can go on and on and on.  All those things are directly related to respecting your child's body.  When you say "age-appropriate" - what does that mean?

Bc one can argue that "age-appropirate" is just an excuse and one either respects their child's body or doesn't. 

And for the record, I very rarely imply anything.  I mostly just come out and say it. 

Oh and I don't have a very strong opinion on this subject except for a few things, so this is all just a "conversation" for me.

[zibazinski]

Sheila, you sound like an awesome parent.

[giramomma]

Jul 1, 2014 8:31:39 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Sheila, I am not picking on you, but your post brings up another point of view for me.

I don't WANT to share certain things with my kids (granted, my oldest is not even 6 yet) not bc they are not "full voting members" but bc I still believe in a notion of "worry free childhood".

I wouldn't want them to know about affairs and addictions at 9 yr old.  I wouldn't want them to know that we are loosing the house at 11. 

Those are serious grown up things.  Even some adults have a hard time dealing and understanding such things. 

I'm also like Sheila. Addictions run in DH's side of the family. I would not withhold that information anymore than I would if heart disease runs in the family.

I didn't get a worry free childhood. I didn't know one set of grandparents. All of my grandparents passed away before I hit 8. Some, as early as 6.

We had to explain death to DS when he was 3. I mean, he wasn't dumb. Eventually he was going to notice that his great grandma wasn't around family gatherings and ask why.  DH's addiction also was dealt with when DS was 3. He sure knew something was up. Simply from the fact that I was around more while DH was going to his therapy appointments. DS knew there was a fair amount of tension in the household. And frankly, the LAST thing I wanted was him thinking it was somehow his fault.

Once DS (again at age 5) asked me about adoption. Why it happens. Why can't parents take care of their kids, etc. By the time we were done talking, we had meandered onto why I chose DH to marry. Pretty heavy topics for a 5 year old, but it wasn't like I was going to deflect and say "Hey, let's get ice cream before school starts!"

Our kids know that our neighbors' on both sides of have had their houses broken into. One house, it was twice.

Today I had to park my car across the street from the sitters house when I dropped off the littlest. I left my 10 yo and 6 year old locked in the car. DS started playing on his iTouch. I told him to put it away, because I didn't want someone trying to steal it. iProducts get stolen from folks regularly around here.

I would rather give my kids the knowledge/tools to deal with world. We tend to keep our kids more "sheltered." They still see and hear things.

[Firebird]

Diaper changes are not optional. Only for a 1yr old or in general? Will you force her on the floor at 3 to change a diaper or will you stop at...hmm....2.5 and let her decide after that?
Teeth brushing is not optional. Only at 1 or in general?
Washing hair. Same thing
Haircuts. Same thing
Nail trimming. Same thing
Hugs and kisses.

I thought it was obvious that I was talking about my kid and what is age appropriate for her right now.

But I think you're deliberately being argumentative.  Things that relate to her health are not optional for her at this time.  At 16, they will be.  Am I going to let her go to school with hair uncombed, teeth unbrushed, looking like a slob?  Probably, yes.  It's her body and her choice at THAT point.  Two years away from being a legal adult, it is no longer my responsibility to make sure that she completes daily hygiene regimens.  She'll figure out the consequences if she doesn't.

With a toddler, it's completely different because they have no concept of what's good or bad for them.  They can't conceptualize long term consequences.  Babybird has no freaking idea why I make her brush her teeth.  That's okay.  She doesn't need to understand, she just needs to do it because I know it's an important decision for her health and making it on her behalf when she's too young to do so is just part of being a responsible parent. 

Seriously, I thought this was all pretty obvious.  I don't know what boards you hang out on, but I don't know any parent who thinks it's okay not to change a kid's dirty diaper if they protest (and I know some pretty damn liberal parents).  Depending on how dirty the diaper is, I might hold off a few minutes and let her finish what she's doing or whatever, but not doing it at all because she doesn't "want me to" is not something I consider to be reasonable in any way.

[Lizard Queen]

My kids may be little, but they still pick up on tension in the house.  My 4 YO especially picks up random, seemingly vague things that we say, and he'll tend to jump to conclusions or misunderstand.  It seems to help a lot when I explain a little, so I do.  He may not understand everything, but he's not stupid and knows something is up.  If I don't explain, his imagination might take over and blow things out of proportion.

[zibazinski]

I think I am. Some of it is due to my kids personalities but I didn't demand as much from my son as I did my daughter. He isn't a failure but he didnt reach his potential. I feel sad/bad about that.

[whoisjohngalt]

Jul 1, 2014 3:10:14 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I think there's a level of respect a person has to earn, and then a basic level of respect everyone is owed. Bodily autonomy, in my opinion, is part of the second category.

OK, I am quoting this again bc I must have some serious reading comprehension issues.

You seem to have an opinion that basic level of respect is owed to everyone and bodily autonomy is part of that. 

"Everyone" would include your 1 yr old as well, so forcing her to brush her teeth, according to your logic, would be disrespectful.

But then, of course, you go with all the "age-appropirate" qualifications which is very subjective. 

And when I ask at what age you would not force her, you call me argumentative and make a jump to 16, which is kind of silly bc there are about 14 yrs between a toddler and a 16 yr old.

anywhoooo, since I can't follow your logic, and you seem to get irritated, I am out

[Opti]

Jul 1, 2014 8:31:39 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Sheila, I am not picking on you, but your post brings up another point of view for me.

I don't WANT to share certain things with my kids (granted, my oldest is not even 6 yet) not bc they are not "full voting members" but bc I still believe in a notion of "worry free childhood".

I wouldn't want them to know about affairs and addictions at 9 yr old.  I wouldn't want them to know that we are loosing the house at 11. 

Those are serious grown up things.  Even some adults have a hard time dealing and understanding such things. 

Is it a worry-free childhood if you as the 9 year old know Dad is having an affair and

isn't himself and his parents tell him nothing? If at 11, you move from a big house to

a small one or Aunt Edna's basement are you less worried because your parents kept

you in the dark?

What parents tell the child should be based more IMO of what they can handle instead

of the false belief that not telling them keeps them worry-free. It does not. I think many

studies have shown very young kids notice and feel the ramifications of affairs.

[Deleted]

Body autonomy age appropriate to 1 is if you don't want to be tickled, wear that sweater, sit on grandpas lap, etc. You don't have to. 

Age appropriate autonomy for me generally means isn't going to hurt and or capable of understanding/articulating the consequences for yourself. 

[sheilaincali]

giramomma- Thank you.

For the record I wish I didn't have to tell DS about DH's affair and our problems. I wish I didn't have to deal with a stalker sending my son letters and telling him she was going to be "his new mommy". I wish I hadn't lost the house in CA. I wish a shit ton of things but that's not going to make them un-happen. Like DH says "wish in one hand a shit in the other, let me know which one fills up first" (crude but accurate)

I don't think my kid is "typical" or average. This is the same child that sat me down when he was 4 1/2 and explained to me how there couldn't possibly be a Santa. He had several well thought out arguments to support his claim. At the end I asked him "what would your response be if I told you you were right?" He said "I'd think it was great that I knew the secret" I asked him "would you be disappointed?" he said "Nope" so I told him "yes, honey you are right" and we talked about why parents encourage their kids to believe in Santa (the magic and mystery of it all).  I told him that it was up to other kids to find out the truth on their own and that he needed to keep the secret to himself. As far as I know he never told another kid that there wasn't a Santa.

I stopped being able to help that kid with his homework years ago.  I fully accept that he is smarter than me. I may know more about some subjects and have more experience but he is smarter than DH and I. For pete's sake he tutored DH is his logic class this past semester. DH was whining about how confusing his oceanography class was and DS teased him about it. DH said "oh yeah smarty pants do you know what xyz is?" And DS proceeded to give him a 30 minute spontaneous dissertation on what xyz was. At the end DH was blown away and said DS explained it better in 30 minutes than the professor did in 16 weeks of class. It was something about currents or some such thing that went straight over my head.

With a brain like his he has always demanded knowledge. He thirsts for it. When we told him about DH's bipolar he started researching it and came to me with a list of warning symptoms that I should be on the look out for. I am not going to stifle that quest for knowledge by keeping secrets from him or demeaning him and telling him that things are too complicated or mature for him to understand.

[Firebird]

"Everyone" would include your 1 yr old as well, so forcing her to brush her teeth, according to your logic, would be disrespectful.

Okay, let me try one more time to clarify...

Although I do believe everyone is entitled to a form of basic respect that includes bodily autonomy, bodily autonomy takes different forms at different ages.  There is NO way around this.  My young child CAN'T have complete bodily autonomy when it is not possible for her to take care of herself.  She doesn't have the tools yet.  Bodily autonomy is not an all-or-nothing proposition.  Even as adults, we don't always have complete control over our bodies. 

Have you seen that T-shirt making the rounds on Facebook lately for dads?  The back of it says:

"Four Rules for Dating My Daughter:

1.  I don't make the rules.
2.  You don't make the rules.
3.  She makes the rules.
4.  Her body, her rules."

I do the best I can to give her very limited, reasonable autonomy even at 1 year old because this is my goal.  In a nutshell, the statement on the shirt is what I believe (for boys and girls equally), once they are old enough to accept that responsibility.  Freedom to choose comes with responsibility.

I have a really big problem with people asserting control over their children's bodies at older ages in the same way they asserted control over those same bodies when they were young children.  Teaching my daughter the tools she needs and getting to the point where she is mature enough to make those choices for herself (and hopefully makes good, smart choices) is my goal.  

If Babybird developed scoliosis at age three, I wouldn't have the slightest problem forcing her to wear a corrective brace.  She doesn't get a choice at that age because there's no way she can make an informed decision.

But I totally understand why Sheila felt the need to obtain her child's consent before getting him teeth braces (where a lot of parents feel no such need).  Why should she go through the hella expensive and time-consuming process of braces with an uncooperative kid if he's old enough to make an informed decision about what he wants?

It sounds like at that age, the Boy was mature enough to make informed long-term decisions pertaining to his own health.  So she let him make that decision for himself.

That's a way, way different animal then letting a three year old "choose for herself" whether to wear a scoliosis brace.

I can't just say "my kid has 0% authority over her own body now, but when she turns 15 she gets 100% authority."  It doesn't work that way.  You have to go in small steps and work up to that level of 100% authority.  No kid is capable of having 100% authority over their body as a baby.  But I think it's best to start giving them very limited authority as early as possible, so that they can learn what that means and how to handle it. 

Is it any clearer now?

[Firebird]

Jul 1, 2014 9:20:50 GMT -5 oped said:

Body autonomy age appropriate to 1 is if you don't want to be tickled, wear that sweater, sit on grandpas lap, etc. You don't have to. 

Age appropriate autonomy for me generally means isn't going to hurt and or capable of understanding/articulating the consequences for yourself. 

Tl;dr - what oped said.

[Angel!]

Jul 1, 2014 8:46:40 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Those are serious grown up things. Even some adults have a hard time dealing and understanding such things.

I agree with this, and I also think it depends on the kid.

My son was a very quiet, thoughtful, introverted little boy who could become fearful. I think at nine, trying to explain to him that his father had a mental health issue and needed therapy would have terrified him. I think he would have imaged his father would end up in a hospital or prison. I wouldn't have shared that information with him when he was 9.

 

I think it depends on the situation too. There are times when I think it is better to explain situations (even adult situations) in the most age-appropriate way possible so the kids understand what is going on.

I've had multiple conversations with my kids about their father that I would rather not have, but I think it is better than leaving them wondering and possibly blaming themselves for him not living with us.  I don't go into the drinking or the drugs, but do talk about his anger issues and mental health issues.

[Deleted]

I have noted what Anne said the other day. My kids are very in tune to my moods and they function much better if I explain why I might be frustrated, upset, rather than allow them to internalize it. That's my kids. 

[Angel!]

Jul 1, 2014 9:39:10 GMT -5 oped said:

I have noted what Anne said the other day. My kids are very a tune to my moods and they function much better if I explain why I might be frustrated, upset, rather than allow them to internalize it. That's my kids. 

I do the same thing.  I don't really know how they would take things if I didn't.  But, if I am over-reacting to a situation due to frustration then I do try to stop and tell them I am extremely frustrated because of X right now and I'm sorry that I am yelling.  It often leads to conversations about what is ok behavior when you are frustrated and how to handle things when you are upset, which I think is really good for my daughter because she often loses control.  And I admit to them when I am acting inappropriately out of frustration and that just because I am the mom doesn't mean I don't have to follow house rules.  DD has told me she will send me to my room if I am breaking the rules

[Firebird]

I try to encourage DS to understand he is in charge of his body. I think it's a safety issue.

It's TOTALLY a safety issue, in addition to (IMO) a moral one.  How else are kids going to learn about consent?  It starts early.

I admit that lately I've caught myself pushing Babybird to give kisses or cuddles when she doesn't feel like it.  I don't force her, but I ask her to give kisses and, when she refuses, push her with "Come on, give Nana kisses!"  As a parent, that's really abhorrent behavior to me and I am consciously working on it.  Obviously we like it when she gives kisses but it is not respectful of us to demand kisses or act offended when she doesn't give them.  It's easy to do but that doesn't make it right. 

That's something I consider an age-appropriate example of "your body, your choice."  I hate it when little kids are forced to give affection - that's a perfect way to teach them (particularly girls) that their consent to physical affection doesn't mean anything. 

[sheilaincali]

Jul 1, 2014 9:40:06 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

I try to encourage DS to understand he is in charge of his body.  I think it's a safety issue. 

DH was molested by a family member when he was quite young and again in elementary school by an adult (scout leader but that's a who other story). He was beaten by his stepfather and routinely degraded and demeaned by him as well. His circumstances shaped who he is.

My MIL (the same person that knew DH was being abused and sat by and said nothing) left my house in a huff and claimed she would never return once. She and I had been out to a weekend craft show with my mom, my sister and my SIL. When we got back to my house she got out of the car and demanded that DS give her a hug (he was 4 at the time). He said politely "no thank you". She started harassing him and demanding that he give her a hug. I told him "you don't have to hug Oma if you don't want to but please welcome her back to our house". He said "welcome back but I don't want to hug anyone right now".

MIL claims she has "never been so disrespected in her entire life" they left within the half hour and vowed to never return again. 2 hours later she called from the road to tell DH what a lovely visit they had with us and would see us again soon. She's got issues.

I was not going to tell my 4 year old that he didn't have control of his body and that he was subject to the manhandling of his Oma. Nope not happening. DH was told to hug his abuser and that was wrong on so many levels.

Granted I've said before- I have issues with being touched and that bleeds over into parenting DS. I demand that people not touch me without my consent I'm not going to be a hypocrite and demand that he agree to be touched against his will.

[Firebird]

A few years ago, milee consulted the board about a very difficult decision - whether or not to force her child to undergo a non-medically necessary procedure.  It was a really fascinating thread.  I would be interested in hearing her thoughts on the bodily autonomy part of this discussion, if she wants to share.